Re: windows 10 with jaws


chris judge
 

Remember, the virtual ribbon option was introduced in Jaws many years ago, around the time of ribbons inception. I didn’t use ribbons back then so can’t speak to how accessible they were back then. I don’t think too many people use the virtual ribbon option these days.

 

Chris Judge

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: July 30, 2021 6:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

The article discusses how ribbons are more consistent.  Despite claims Freedom Scientific makes, ribbons are consistent and properly accessible and the article discusses all that. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:41 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

I didn’t see it,

I’ve also found that while yes I can navigate stuff, figuring out which keys does what in every ribbon isn’t the easiest thing to do.

I still do not see a problem with using t the JAWS access r for the ribbon.

For me, it’s a matter of consistency which I think FS was trying to  a achieve in part.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

The JAWS virtual menus are not a good way to work with ribbons.  See this discussion. 

https://blindtechnology.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/microsoft-ribbon-is-accessible/

Also, if you use them, since instructional material in general uses real ribbons, you are making it harder to use tutorials and other instructional material. 

 

Did you see the tutorial I sent earlier today?  To move through a ribbon efficiently requires knowledge of one or two commands for moving quickly through ribbons, which I explain, and memorizing combinations of letters that make up a command, equivalent to shortcut commands on a menu, such as alt f, a, that you use regularly.

 

It is a little less efficient to move through ribbons, even when using shortcut commands because shortcut commands usually require another letter or two or perhaps three.  But nonribbon commands, previously used in ribbon programs mostly still work such as control o for open, control r for reply, etc so this loss of efficiency is often not a problem because you still use all or almost all the most efficient control plus letter or number commands you used in the menu versions.  . 

 

But whenever people disable ribbons, my qquestion is, what will you loose access to and what will be harder to do?  I don’t know the answers because I don’t disable ribbons.  Others may want to discuss the question.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

I have jaws set to show the jaws ribbon.
I honestly do not find  ribbons as easy to  navigate and would prefer too disable them.
John


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

I think one reason is that ribbons may not be clear in terms of how they are organized and how to work with them if you just come across them and have no good instruction.  That probably happened to a lot of people who had none or had some help from people who didn't understand them properly either.


The word from people who have such experiences spreads from them throughout the blind computer using community.


If there had been some sort of utopian way to send good help in the form
of explanations and demonstrations to all those in the blind Windows
computer using community as soon as ribbons were released, a lot of the
fear surrounding ribbons might have been preempted.


Gene
On 7/30/2021 3:28 PM, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> It's amazing to me that a word, one simple word can cause such angst,
> such fear, such unreasoning terror.  Ribbons are menus, pure and
> simple.  They may cause some difficulty for the sighted because they
> are horizontal and not vertical, but what is so terrifying about a
> menu?  You've been working with menus since you started using a
> computer.  Why aren't you terrified by menus? They're just the same as
> ribbons!  Ribbons are horizontal menus, that's all.  They have more
> data in them, but they're only menus, just menus.  ""Beware the
> Jabberwock, The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
> Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
> The frumious Bandersnatch!”
> ― Lewis Carroll,  Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There
>
> <smiling>
> Ann P.
>
>
>
>
> Original message:
>
>> Really there’s a ribene disabler?
>
>> What is that n and how odes it work?
>
>> Thanks,
>
>> John
>
>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
>> joanne
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 7:52 AM
>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
>
>> Marvin and all, thanks for your input and we will definitely be in
>> touch with those who let me know they're available to help. When I
>> get windows 10 it's a relief to know I can email my specific concerns
>> to someone who's used it.
>
>> I think the main problem my friend is having is what I am having
>> whenever I see a computer that has 10. He couldn't get regular list
>> views and, like many of us, didn't comprehend ribbons so I sent him a
>> ribbon disabler. What I wasn't aware of until now was the
>> comprehensive info we can get from Freedom Scientific. I will
>> certainly be making use of that and will let my friend know that help
>> from them is also available.
>
>> I realize there have been disagreements in the group about people's
>> comfort level and wanting to stick with certain things that they're
>> used to from other programs. That's why there are some work-arounds
>> like classic shell and other tools. I'm very glad many of you have
>> caught on to the strange setup of 10, but some of us--at least
>> starting out--want certain aspects to have at least some familiarity
>> to us. So I appreciate the great help that comes, and I also hope
>> that those who don't have trouble adjusting to 10 might try to
>> understand that some are in a different place and need some extra
>> help and ideas as we learn this operating system.
>
>> Joanne
>
>> From: Marvin Hunkin <mailto:startrektech@...>
>
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:08 AM
>
>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>
>> Subject: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
>
>> h. if you want to e-mail me and tell me what problems or issues. Been
>> using windows 10 with jaws for about 7 years. A power user. So if I
>> can help. Did you try googling if windows 10 utube. Did you try the
>> freedom scientific training and then searching for windows 10.
>
>> Or what about the fs reader training about windows. That is for
>> windows 10.
>
>> If you need help.
>
>> Happy to help.
>
>> Ps: don’t know of any programs which will have a shell like windows 7.
>
>> Just learn to use windows 10.
>
>> Marvin.
>
>>
>








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