Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article


Aidan <aidan.smarttalk@...>
 

I must agree with jean and carlos here. As long as we as blind people
keep making excuses for microsoft then we should not be surprise where
it goes. Its not exceptable what they are doing for the last few
years, and nothing they say will change my attidute towards them. Now
its time for practise, to show us what they really can do. Its easy to
talk. There are many developers asking for feedback and doing nothing
about it wich prove that feedback alone is no way to be sure if the
product will improve. Microsoft does not care about accessibility and
I keep to that statement until they prove me wrong. These smaller
changes we see now is just to keep us in a so called more happyer zone
because they know there are people like rj wich will buy into that
nonsense. And why can we not complain? We have every write to
complain. Accessibility is a rite, and we shall keep enforcing and
demanding it. Yes your attitude must be write but in this case ms is
more than aware of the reality of the situation. They know they are
guilty but they won't admit it to the public. To keep saying things
like "at least they will do something" is a waste of time and it bring
us no where. Either they deliver or the other screenreaders get
stronger. And why shall I use the simpel ej browser anyway if firefox
and chrome work so well?

On 02/07/2016, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
I didn't say that other screen readers would just disappear, but I believe
that third-party developers might have less incentive to invest much time
and effort in serious development if a full-blown screen reader were
built-in. The screen reader market already has a limited margin for profit

and Microsoft would always have the edge in terms of adding new features if

they became seriously invested in Narrator. Consumers might also have less

incentive to purchase third-party screen readers if most of the
functionality they need were already included in Windows. Windows is not
Android. The alternatives are either very expensive or free in the case of

NVDA. In the case of more expensive screen readers, consumers would almost

always choose the fully functional option that is built-in and does not cost

nearly $1000. Organizations which provide sponsorship for obtaining
computers would also have less reason to purchase screen readers like JAWS.

Of course some people might think this is a good thing, but if sales of JAWS

were to drop significantly, eventually it might make continuing to produce
the product unviable which in turn means fewer options. It is hard to say
whether NVDA would be affected, but the development of NVDA is supported
partially by donations and partially by the motivation of the developers,
either of which could potentially be affected by the inclusion of a
full-blown screen reader in Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10

Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Hi Carlos,
I deleted your original post, but, know how you're saying Mac? To
my knowledge, talkBack is built into android, yet, there's
another one called ShinePlus. I wonder, if, say, MS made a fully
built in screen reader, as long as windows was opened, I can't
see why something like would NVDA died. Apple is different, as
their system is not opened.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:11:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

No it wouldn't. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
Whether Narrator becomes a full-blown screen reader some day, it
has a
long
way to go. And in my opinion, making Narrator a full-blown
screen reader
would only stifle development for the competition. It is good
to have
options and Macs are a good example of what happens when a
full-blown
screen
reader is built-in to the operating system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


I am not usually one to use this type of strong language, but
really?
How do you think NVDA and Jaws got to where they are? Feedback!
Let's
all give narrator a chance. Microsoft alone won't make the
screenreader,
but together, the end users,(Us the blind community) will make
Narrator
a screenreader which could even beat out voice over if we really
wanted
it bad enough. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:19 PM, Marie wrote:
I find Narrator useful on occasion, but it is far from being a
full
screen reader and I would hate it if they made it like the Apple
devices where it is your only choice.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

If they are going somewhere with Narrator, then they should
simply
release a
major upgrade when it is ready to be used as a full-blown screen
reader. At
this point it is wasted effort to introduce these minor changes
since
it is
still not functional enough to be used by most on a daily basis.
Gradually
introducing features that most people probably won't use because
there
is a
better free alternative seems like effort that could be more
productively
invested somewhere else for now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Yeah, but they might be going somewhere with it which we don't
know
about
just yet. Some of the features discussed in the article seem as
though
they
may have been influenced by general screen reader tech.

They might first want to start with the Windows OS then
ultimately
create a
VoiceOver competitor for future Windows devices.

With technology advancing as it does, why not accept the help
from
one of
the biggest computer software developers in the world?
Furthermore,
this
development might yield discoveries which will help with other
related
disabilities experienced by an aging population.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io]
On
Behalf Of
Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and
somewhat
excessive in my opinion. How many people really use Narrator on
a
daily
basis? The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an
emergency
or to
finish setting up Windows. It is useful and convenient to have,
but
for
most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a
primary
screen
reader. These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive
screen
readers will most likely use NVDA. And Narrator has a long way
to go
before
it can compete with NVDA. That being the case, I believe their
time
and
effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other
areas. If
NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might
seem
more
significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems
like
wasted
effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved
it.
I will
not defend them in their accessibility implementation of
accessibility in
Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below





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