-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:35 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Are guns not technology? As you say, just about anything can be considered
technology. Anything manufactured for use as a tool qualifies as technology
and while I agree that there should be a reasonable common sense line in
defining how it relates to the list, it certainly doesn't only apply to
computers and electronics even taking that into account.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Ok, but just so I learn something, what makes the gun topic tech related?

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joe
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:17 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Hell, can we keep the gun talk on this list for now? One less list to
subscribe to, and I think Carlos has the right of it in considering guns as
technology. Just my two cents.

Joe

--
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www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:26 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Generally electronic and accessible technology is what most members are
interested in discussing, but I don't object to other types of technology
being discussed within reason. It is a general technology discussion list,
not exclusively for discussing computer related technology. However, I
expect people to use a bit of common sense. Science provides technology,
but it is not technology. We will handle unusual topics on an individual
basis, but basically as long as it does not strain the credulity and
patience of most members, I am willing to be flexible and open minded. Of
course, if a slightly offbeat topic seems to be dragging on for too long or
irritating too many members, I may request that we move on at some point.
Also, while the majority of members are blind and I will not go out of my
way to promote the list in the sighted community, I have no objections to
sighted individuals who might wish to subscribe and participate.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi Carlos,

In hopes of not stepping on toes, I think you might want to define
what is meant by technology as it relates to this list. I don't think
most would consider guns technology in terms of the scope of blind
members wanting to know about computer sciences and general computing.
As is, it appears that just about anything can be considered
technology is

one thinks about it.

Would the study of ants be considered technology if an electronic
device is used to watch them at work? Would Woman's make-up be on
topic on this list if someone twists him or herself in pretzels to box
up a question using a technology slant? I think most list members
consider computers and all they do for us as on topic, but
seismographs and oscilloscopes might not be as relevant. ...Just
looking for a bit more clarity.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:12 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are most certainly technology and I personally don't have a
problem with the discussion, but I believe some members might not be
quite as understanding so we might want to close this topic or move it
to the chat list as was suggested.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Well it not just because it a gun thread if it was about guns and the
technology that could be implemted on them then it would be on topic.
But just guns in general no . or if it is abut guns and blindness it
would be on topic. As carlos is fairly flexable and most anything
technology wise or blindness related is on topic . But I have no
problem about moving to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving
Car Involved In Fatal Accident

It might be time for the chat list as this topic has now morphed into
some sort of gun thread.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving
Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Well this is true on single action revolvers of today and it is still
the safety way is to let the hammer set on an empty chamber. Now you
could do the same for a double action as well let it set on the empty
chamber but you don't have to . As the trigger pull unless modified
is usually a fairly heavy pull anyhow. . but the safest way is not to
put your finger on the trigger till you are ready to pull it. they
really have 4types of revolvers as I know. They are single shot,
single action, double action only and DASA (Double action plus single
action) another words you can just pull the trigger or you can cock
the hammer and pull the trigger. Your choice. Most double action only
does not have an external hammer.
Now I was brought up with guns and had them around me and learn at
every early age about them and how to handle them. But you need to
get training on handling them and using them as well as training on
the laws and how to protect yourself with them. it is much more than
just going out and buying gun. This is just stupid. I not a big fan
of most regulation but some I am and some I have no problem with them
at

all.

But I don't know if we are not sort of straying off topic and off the
the subject as well so this might need to be moved to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action revolver unless
the hammer is cocked back in to the firing position. You never cock
the gun unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety because the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be almost
impossible to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the safety is not
to pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently trigger it in my
pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but you don't take
pepper spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a baseball bat
fight. If you did you would be on the losing end of the fight for
sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box! Pepper spray
is one of them. But it should not be the only thing. You should
have a knife , stun gun or Taser and a gun for sure a good old
fashion hickory cane with a good hook to it that is very pointed at
the end of the hook is good or asord cane is good. But a water gun
is not much good unless you have something besides water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of pepper spray
myself, too. I have worries about guns myself, but the good old
pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this drivel. I
know one of these so-called "blind extremists" who carries a gun and
he carries it for protection only. The times he has shot it in
public was because he was being threatened by four sighted extremist
thugs also known as criminals, who were threatening to not only rob
him but cause him physical harm. He took out his gun and shot once,
straight up into the air. Yes, the extremist thugs quickly ran away
in fright and I hope they also needed to do some laundry quickly

afterward.

Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't been legally
carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my time with telling you
that as you're not for the individual and his rights but for some
other agenda instead. BTW there are more deaths due to automobile
accidents than there are due to shootings so this brings it back
around to your glass half full attitude aimed at self-driving cars
which have caused how many deaths so far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some blind extremists
allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their constitutional
right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's bad enough
that terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and own firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed up mess that
has become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And if the
lawmakers were so determined to put a halt to any technology that is
not 100% safe and foolproof, there are many types of technology we
would not have access to in modern society. If the lawmakers in
Washington care so much about keeping dangerous technology out of the
hands of the blind, then why are there several blind individuals who
are still being allowed to legally own firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100% foolproof is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and elsewhere won't see
it that way. They will demand that self-driving vehicles be made as
close to 100% foolproof as possible before they consider enacting
legislation that would allow blind drivers to operate them without
the accompaniment of a sighted driver. That's just the realities of
politics in a predominantly sighted world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage these types of
cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a difference
between soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned, the other issue
here is this ridiculous assumption that somehow the technology should
be or ever can be made 100% safe and foolproof. That is just
nonsense and trying to predict the future of the technology based on
one accident or even several is just more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a half empty
blass but a half full one. But in some cases this is just not
possible. I have to agree with him on this Gerald . It is also not
just the US legislature but from state to state. Just like all
driving laws vary from state to state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will more than
likely implement it on law on driving driverless cars. I also think
they would require very special training even for the sited but
certainly for the blind person as well! I just don't see the blind
being able to do this in my life time and I hope to be here around
another 30 years. I am coming up on my 58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The bottom line
is that it will be a very long time, if ever, before blind consumers
are allowed to operate one of these gizmos by themselves. One fatal
accident is still one fatal accident too many. These vehicles must
be made 100% safe and foolproof before the powers that be in
Washington will let blind drivers behind the wheel without the
accompaniment of a sighted driver in the passenger's seat. Sorry to
throw water on your parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of reasons why
this could have happened. It is likely these multiple car
manufacturers are using different gPS databases and supporting
software, as well as other yet to be determined reasons, so what
happened here may not happen to other researchers who are using more
developed databases--the results depend on lots of variables. The
Google car has not had this type of history, and the single accident
it had was due to a human disabling the computer and taking over the
driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you might consider
solutions which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one of those
newfangled self-driving cars that may some day revolutionize the
lives of us blind consumers, not so fast. The race to develop a safe
and reliable self-driving vehicle suffered a major setback recently
when a Tesla all-electric self-driving car was involved in a fatal
accident that killed the driver while it was operating in
self-driving mode. I guess it's back to the drawing board:


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesla-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































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