Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Carlos
 


Not to mention that I vaguely remember reading about at least one blind programmer who already works for Microsoft.  Considering how large of a company they are, I wouldn't be surprised if there are others.  A few blind programmers will not have a significant impact unless they are in a position to make a difference.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

One blind engineer is not necessarily representative of the needs and wants of blind consumers in general.  There are all sorts of ways to get information from the blind community and I assume that Microsoft is already receiving a good deal.  Being a blind anything doesn't automatically mean that you will have the proper understanding of what is needed. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible.  It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture.  The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome.  I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install.  That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader?  The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support.  Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time.  However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist.  3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons.  If developers of the alternatives were to lose  financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options.  Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.
 
I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible.  It has been a year since the release of Windows 10.  Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator.  Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile.  However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?  And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader.  At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader.  If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10.  And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well?  I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list.  The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible.  Edge is not properly accessible.  And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@...> lists@... <mailto:lists@...> >
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention.  Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@... <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting.  In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@... <mailto:4carolyna@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@...> mailto:tl1@...>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>











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