Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Norman
 

Hi.

I'm going to address these questions/comments one by one.


"
Well don’t have a problem with improving Narrator at all it is just the things they are improving with it. I would like to see focus on using Narrator to do a complete clean install and also be able to read the bio’s for us.
"
I can already do this by using the windows PE images. There is no way that ms will make the initial setup screens accessible if you're booting from the setup disk. I doubt this is even possible as you would have to load sound card drivers and a screen reader. That's probably twice as much as the initial installer.
I guess it might be possible if you had a text based setup though, since debian linux did it. However, even there, the graffical installer doesn't talk.
As for the bios, forget it. I don't think ms would even have direct control of this. You would have to go back to the pc manufacturers for that.

"
One you don’t force all updates on everyone! Leave the updates like they are in W7.
"
I agree with you on this. However from a venders perspective, it does make sense. Consider, someone buys a pc from a tech who has turned off windows updates. The average consumer will never notice the difference. 3 years later this person has a problem and contacts microsoft for help. The ms employee spends an hour or so on the phone troubleshooting and then figures out that updates haven't been installed for 3 years. This is very inefficient Because now on top of everything else the employee has to explain updates to the customer and why it matters that they are installed.

"

I am very disappointed that almost a year has went by and the flagship browser Edge is still not accessible to us. My fear as of now with that they end up getting rid of IE and Edged will still be inaccessible to us.
"

Here again, i am forced to agree with you. However, consider the size of the programing team at ms. I'm guessing there is an edge team and a narator team, among others.
The narator team has to get with the edge team, Who may or may not care about accessibility, and almost certainly have lots of other projects to work on. Also, There is a thread on this list which explains the edge situation.
Consider the worst. Maybe you have to migrate to firefox or chrome if they dump IE? I know people who won't touch IE with a 10 foot pole.

"
have the problem with them turning on all these features that invade your privacy. They should be turn off by default and you if you wish to can turn them on!
"

Again, i agree with you in principle. However, From the ms perspective, there are good reasons to have them turned on.
Consider cortana, and where it gets all it's data to interact with you. For a truely interactive experience, There is no other way since cortana needs to know things about you so it can respond correctly.
Another thing that many people don't realize is that apple and google do the same things with there hardware, we're just more used to it.
If you really want these features off, you can turn them off when setting up the computer.


As for device compatibility issues with windows 10, yes, there are some, although mostly with older hardware.
If you have up to date hardware, you will not have many issues.

My final thoughts.

Yes, windows 8.1 and 10 have there short comings, but if you know how to use them right, the experience is great.
People may think i'm different, but i will not voluntarily go back to win 7. My main computer runs windows 8.1, and i even prefer that over  7.
On the other hand, i don't really have plans to upgrade this machine to 10 before the free upgrade offer expires. My mac has win 10 on it and i like it but i don't think it's enough of a jump over 8.1 to make it worth it.


JMT.

On 7/5/2016 8:10 AM, Matt wrote:

Well don’t have a problem with improving Narrator at all it is just the things they are improving with it. I would like to see focus on using Narrator to do a complete clean install and also be able to read the bio’s for us. I don’t have a problem with W10 using it but I do think there is lots of improvement that can be done. One you don’t force all updates on everyone! Leave the updates like they are in W7. I am very disappointed that almost a year has went by and the flagship browser Edge is still not accessible to us. My fear as of now with that they end up getting rid of IE and Edged will still be inaccessible to us. I have the problem with them turning on all these features that invade your privacy. They should be turn off by default and you if you wish to can turn them on! I just don’t see this as improvement over W7 yes over W8 it is a big improvement. But the thing is if you want windows and support for it you will have to go to W10 in the next 4 years! So when that time comes if not before yes I will move to W10 ! I’m currently dual booted with W10 and W7.  I myself don’t have a lot of things hooked to my PC but some does and I have seen them have nightmare on this list with W10 and their stuff hooked to their computers. I have seen on this list brand new computers running W10 having problems with hardware built in to the computer. So W10 has a long way to go! It was released way before it was ready for mainstream! JMT!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Norman
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 

Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior? 

"

 

For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?

 

Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.

 

If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.

 

 

 

On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?  And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader.  At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something. 

 

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader.  If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10.  And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well?  I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list.  The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible.  Edge is not properly accessible.  And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Norman

Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" <lists@...>
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention.  Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@...>
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting.  In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...>
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy <mailto:tl1@...>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


 


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