Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>

I don't consider myself an advanced user, and even I don't have issues using windows, whether be 8, 7, 10, or for that matter, XP. once you know it, you know it. same goes for apple, and android. the idea of them is the same, in my experience.

On 16/06/17 6:36 PM, Carlos wrote:
This is why I always say that Windows is Windows. At least in terms of operation. A newer version of Windows may have differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt. It is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing the affect such changes have on others, but I think often people become frustrated by the differences and give up too soon. The problem is that eventually you have to move on if you want to keep up with new technology. Someone will always point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most users. It may be possible to continue using outdated versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15 years? When Microsoft has completely given up on XP altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or peripherals. Some may even consider switching over to a completely different operating system, but learning a new operating system is generally more difficult for most users than adapting to a new version of one you may have been already using for years. That is not to say it can't be done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be trivial. You may take the time to learn a new operating system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks and idiosyncrasies. Of course, there might be other reasons for switching over to a new operating system. I have considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7 since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going. The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system for the technically faint of heart. Accessibility has improved significantly in the last several years and sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties. Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often changing settings requires manual editing of configuration files. Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux community can be daunting at times.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <>
*To:* <>
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change
Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and learning
shortcut commands is also important for efficiency. But in Windows
7, I don't think whether people learn keystrokes, or underlying
concepts with shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using
Windows 7 if you know XP. In my example of the shut down dialog, to
see almost the identical dialog, all you have to do is move to the
desktop, then use alt f4 to open the shut down dialog. that's how I
work with the shut down dialog in Windows 7. As far as other things
are concerned, another example that might confuse people is what you
see if you open something like the c drive and start tabbing. You
will see lots of fields that aren't present in XP. But you can
ignore them all and simply not tab around. If you do that, the list
view of files and folders is the same as in XP. And the examples
could go on and on. I'll give one more. If you like to use the run
dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you press and hold the
Windows key and type r while doing so. In XP, you could press and
release the Windows key and then type r. this is a trivial
difference but one that could cause lots of frustration if you don't
know it. And a lot of operations are identical to XP. I've just
chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the changes are where
they exist in most cases. I use Windows 7. At times, I prefer
using the start dialog search to open a program or to find where I
would change settings for something. but almost all I do in Windows
7 is either identical or almost identical to XP. Once I realized I
could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a Windows 7 computer
and started looking around and experimenting, I was able to do
almost everything I did before.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ann Parsons <>
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM
*To:* <>
*Subject:* [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological
Morning all,
Gene, I like your rebuttal here. I would just like to add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some because they are
afraid. Part of the fear is that they will not remember or understand
I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is able to do
two things: first, get away from dependence on keystroke learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they understand.
I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered approach. Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still does. It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it competently.
I can tell you that the method does work. I went to visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me this morning.
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure. I was able to retrieve my email
and read it and send it. the commands for the screen reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y, she gave me the
commands and I did fine.
As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the keyboard
side of things. I tried an iPhone for two years. I did very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things done fast
enough. Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps are on my
BrailleNote Touch. I'm a happy camper. It may not work for others,
but it's working for me.
Ann P.
Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat long,
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's fine. I
may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was the
context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to infer. Your
> message made much more clear what you were saying and why. I
think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be
skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong
> to change. I say may be because there may be other explanations
and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out when
they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost identically
with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with them if you
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down the
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down dialog
that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't have to
use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is already
long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it wasn't
clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for your
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in
general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be able
to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them in
general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people prefer to
use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now, that
isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm not
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10 because of
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be
supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to switch to
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I don't know
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system where
users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting up things
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to change
or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which is a
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do have
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever reason,
Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP, seeing my
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a conclusion. If
either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <
>> <>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <
>>>> <>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: <>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: <>
>>>>> web site:
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."

>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> <>

>> --
>> Facebook: <>

>> Skype: elvam2167

> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: <>
> web site:
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."

Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: <>
web site:
Skype: Putertutor
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

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