Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change


Eleni Vamvakari
 

I'm glad that it exists. But from what you've described, and I
realise that you haven't really researched this, it seems that you can
only search for one thing at a time. Even if that's not the case,
this is a classic example of taking something that works well and
needlessly complicating it. Instead of having everything displayed at
once, I have to go through extra steps to do something that was once
incredibly simple.

On 17/06/2017, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@windstream.net> wrote:
We don't use Classic Shell either. My husband and I each
have Windows-10.

Best from,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 4:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

I did use classic shell, then i found i like the new start
menu in creators update so got rid of classic shell and do
not use it at all anymore.



On 6/16/2017 5:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
LOL that looks worse and worse update after update. it's
literally
sickening, despite how you can install classic shell. I
shouldn't have
to do that just to make it tolerable.

On 16/06/17 8:47 PM, Carlos wrote:
Oh yes, not to mention that new poor excuse for a "Start"
menu is a piece of junk.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens
and
technological change

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to
give feedback and
anyone can join the insider program. Unfortunately,
these issues
have already been discussed to death and I doubt
Microsoft is going
to do anything about forced updates and the potential
privacy
issues.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Josh Kennedy
<mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch
screens and
technological change

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And
with each new
major windows10 release it seems to be just
getting better and
better. I also use feedback hub and give them
feedback. carlos,
can you tell me the specific direction windows10
is going that
you do not like? if you tell me I will write them
feedback in
the feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or
add some
feature that will push it in the direction you
like while
keeping it how it is for other folks.



On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:
This is why I always say that Windows is
Windows. At least in
terms of operation. A newer version of Windows
may
have differences in it's interface and Microsoft
has a bad
habit of making unnecessary changes, but there
are
usually enough similarities that it only takes
me a few days
to adapt. It is possible that as an advanced
user I may be
trivializing the affect such changes have on
others, but I
think often people become frustrated by the
differences
and give up too soon. The problem is that
eventually you have
to move on if you want to keep up with new
technology. Someone will always point out the
exceptions they
know who are still running DOS or Windows 95,
but that simply
isn't realistic for most users. It may be
possible to
continue using outdated versions such as XP for
now, but what
about in 10 or 15 years? When Microsoft has
completely given
up on XP altogether, security becomes more
effort than it's
worth to maintain, and it just won't work with
modern hardware
or peripherals. Some may even consider
switching over to a
completely different operating system, but
learning a new
operating system is generally more difficult for
most
users than adapting to a new version of one you
may have been
already using for years. That is not to say it
can't be done,
but if you have the technical fortitude to learn
Linux for
example, then learning a new version of Windows
should be
trivial. You may take the time to learn a new
operating
system only to discover that it has it's own
annoying quirks
and idiosyncrasies. Of course, there might be
other reasons
for switching over to a new operating system. I
have
considered doing so myself after support ends
for Windows 7
since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction
it's going.
The problem with Linux is that it is not an
operating system
for the technically faint of heart.
Accessibility has
improved significantly in the last several years
and sometimes
everything works as expected, but it's when
something goes
wrong that many users may have difficulties.
Even with modern
desktop based distributions, quite often
changing settings
requires manual editing of configuration files.
Even getting
help and finding answers in the Linux community
can be
daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch
screens and
technological change

Yes, learning the underlying structure is
important and
learning shortcut commands is also important
for
efficiency. But in Windows 7, I don't think
whether
people learn keystrokes, or underlying
concepts with
shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease
of using
Windows 7 if you know XP. In my example of
the shut down
dialog, to see almost the identical dialog,
all you have
to do is move to the desktop, then use alt
f4 to open the
shut down dialog. that's how I work with
the shut down
dialog in Windows 7. As far as other things
are
concerned, another example that might
confuse people is
what you see if you open something like the
c drive and
start tabbing. You will see lots of fields
that aren't
present in XP. But you can ignore them all
and simply not
tab around. If you do that, the list view
of files and
folders is the same as in XP. And the
examples could go
on and on. I'll give one more. If you like
to use the
run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure
you press and
hold the Windows key and type r while doing
so. In XP,
you could press and release the Windows key
and then type
r. this is a trivial difference but one
that could cause
lots of frustration if you don't know it.
And a lot of
operations are identical to XP. I've just
chosen this
example to illustrate how trivial the
changes are where
they exist in most cases. I use Windows 7.
At times, I
prefer using the start dialog search to open
a program or
to find where I would change settings for
something. but
almost all I do in Windows 7 is either
identical or almost
identical to XP. Once I realized I could
use Windows 7 in
this way, after I got a Windows 7 computer
and started
looking around and experimenting, I was able
to do almost
everything I did before.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ann Parsons <mailto:akp@sero.email>
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch
screens and
technological change

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here. I would
just like to add
that the
switch between XP and win7 could be
difficult for some
because they are
afraid. Part of the fear is that they will
not remember
or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be
lessened if the user
is able to do
two things: first, get away from dependence
on keystroke
learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way
they
understand.

I have found that those who are trained by
teachers who
base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much
more afraid than
those who
have learned their computer with a concept
centered
approach. Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training
and still
does. It is
effective because it allows a user to be
able to sit down
at any
computer running any screen reader and
operate it
competently.

I can tell you that the method does work. I
went to visit
a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows
with a Baum
braille
display and their screen reader whose name
escapes me this
morning.
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure. I
was able to
retrieve my email
and read it and send it. the commands for
the screen
reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to
do X or Y,
she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to
weigh in on
the keyboard
side of things. I tried an iPhone for two
years. I did
very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't
get things
done fast
enough. Now I have a flip phone that I love
and my apps
are on my
BrailleNote Touch. I'm a happy camper. It
may not work
for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can.
It is somewhat
long, however.
> You may not want to continue the
discussion and that's
fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of
something I think may
benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally
said. it was
the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably
expected to
infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were
saying and
why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what
appeared to be
skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm
saying that I
think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may
disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what
may be your
strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may
be other
explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change.
I'll point out
another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason
most people have
problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because
Windows 7
isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what
I'm pointing out
when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things
in the same way
as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small
exception but
if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out,
it can be
demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or
almost
identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but
most of the
changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient
to work with
by giving
> people more options and you don't have to
work with them
if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of
shutting down
the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use
a shut down
dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in
XP. You don't
have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples
here--the message is
already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in
that way or it
wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that
might account for
your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance
to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or
adapting to
the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will
learn. I say that
in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and
understood to
be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people
would find
them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them,
many people
prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that
isn't the intent.
At first, I
> thought you might be better served using
Windows 7. Now,
that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should
use Windows 7.
I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not
saying that you
should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to
Windows 10
because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since
Windows 7 won't be
supported in
> about two and a half years, some people
might wish to
switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to
Windows 7. I
don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of
programs such
as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility
is as good in
Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie
operating system
where users may
> have to go through more procedures and
problems setting
up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use
any particular
operating
> system or version of Windows including
whether you use
XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot
of resistance
to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very
different, which
is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all
this. If you do
have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may
convince you that
I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for
whatever
reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different
from XP,
seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach
conclusions and
to seek out
> more information in future before reaching
a conclusion.
If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If
neither does,
you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of
looking through and
trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology
is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how
to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people
couldn't text
using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have
explained that
they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I
tried to enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not
for me, and
I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such
difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund
<brajmund2000@gmail.com
<mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to
be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari
wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were
to do so, I
can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers.
I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of
curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc.
like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it
and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it
has a browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez
<geodom@optonline.net
<mailto:geodom@optonline.net>
>>>> <mailto:geodom@optonline.net>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just
thought that it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if
I'm wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a
QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
>>>>> web site:
http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
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>> --
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>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

-- Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

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