Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>

they'd have to contact my carrier, or use some sort of an app. and if you mean social networking, like what's app and iMessage, there's text me and email address for those.

On 18/06/17 6:29 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
yes but there's lots of people out there who still have your name and email. how do you know your name is not being passed all around the internet and stuff? You can hide your caller ID, but there's still ways for people to get your phone number if they really want to.
On 6/18/2017 6:56 AM, Rajmund wrote:
I'm paranoid enough, to have hidden my caller ID. Josh, if I did that, do you think I will trust something like Microsoft?

On 18/06/17 1:43 AM, Carlos wrote:
You're still missing the point. As I said it is the principle. I respect that data gathering doesn't seem to bother you. Please respect the fact that not everyone may feel the same.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

BIG DEAL THEY HAVE A DIAGNOSTIC TRACKING SERVICE THAT MAYBE records what you type. oops capslock was on there... anyway in order to do bad stuff to people with it they'd have to hire many many many employees to dig through all that data for each user's machine and those employees will want paid. I'll let the diagnostic service stuff turned on. it doesn't bother me. My a-plus network plus teacher was a former security expert and he told our class not to worry about that stuff back in 2011. he just said when you set up machines for employees, lock them down as tight as you can, then grant only the permissions those employees need for their jobs.

On 6/16/2017 11:46 PM, Carlos wrote:
It might be a viable option for some, but despite what the article says I think it would be severely limiting for most users accustomed to using certain types of modern applications. Besides, while I am perfectly comfortable using the command line, I personally don't miss the days of having to constantly type to perform the most basic operations.

The "Diagnostics Tracking Service" is a component added to Windows 7 I believe back in 2015 and was included in 10 from the beginning. See the following article for information about this service and what it does in Windows 10.
I mention it only to emphasize that Microsoft has initiated a trend of data gathering which began with Windows 10, has now spilled over into Windows 7, an I personally find it annoying. The fact is that the component was not originally part of Windows 7. It was quietly installed as an update without permission or explanation of it's purpose to users. I personally have nothing to hide, but as Rob correctly pointed out in an earlier message, it is the principle. Microsoft should not be collecting personal information without the users explicit consent. I don't recall being asked for permission. I don't recall being informed about this update or it's purpose. Of course, some will argue that Google and Apple have been doing the same for years, but this is not a valid defense in my opinion. It doesn't justify such practices. Especially from my point of view since I myself have never used either Android or iOS for personal transactions. Fortunately, disabling the service is fairly straight forward.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleni Vamvakari" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Ann, your points were interesting. But personally, I couldn't imagine
fearing an operating system, or technology in general. I simply like
what i like. If I found a different system that I enjoyed using, I
would do so. It has nothing to do with teachers either. I am
perfectly capable of following a manual or tutorial with the
appropriate commands. It's just that I like things that make sense.
When things start to become needlessly complicated, I avoid them.
While I enjoy learning trivia and facts, usually, when it comes to
computers, I want to know how to do something, not how the screen
looks (unless it's crutial to the understanding of the task) or why it
works. If you say that I can hit alt to get into a menu and that I
can either keep hitting down arrow to stay in that menu, or hit right
arrow to go to the next one, then hit enter to select something or alt
to exit all menus, that's all the explanation I need. The same holds
true with the windows-m alt-f-4 commands to shut down the computer.

I have been using Windows 7 for six or seven years, so it isn't as if
I'm new to it. But when I tried 8.0 and 8.1, I almost lost my mind!
Never again will I do that! From everything that i am hearing about
10, I'm glad that I stopped at 7. It sounds horrible.

Again, I realise that everyone is different, but in my case, I don't
need to have the latest technology. I just want something that works.
It's interesting that you mentioned DOS, Carlos. You and others may
find this quite interesting. It debunks many myths about the
operating system and shows why it is still a viable option today. My
only concern, from a blind perspective, is that, since I don't know of
any active development of screen readers for it, the newer versions,
either of the system itself or of various programs, may not be read

I actually think that it would be easier for me to learn a new
operating system, because I'll be entering the learning process with
few preconceptions. It will all be new, and I can accept the system
for what it is, and not for what a prior version had. However, you
did make a valid point. Each system is different, and may present its
own .problems. I guess it's just a auestion of which ones someone is
willing to work on solving. Thank you for explaining the issues in
Linux. i really wanted to try it, but if it keeps breaking, or if I
can't find decent documentation for it, I would rather not be
frustrated. It's a shame, as it sounded like a good alternative!

Josh, that's a good point about updates. I like automatic ones as
well, since I don't need to worry about them. I have all of my
systems set that way. I'm glad that Windows 10 does have the ability
to turn off things that will never be used and that local accounts can
be created. It was almost impossible to do the latter in 8. The
Creator's Update also sounds interesting, as it comes with speech.
But do they still have the annoying live tiles and different types of
programs? I think they call them metro or modern apps and desktop
apps. I don't know. I hate searhing in Windows 7! Sometimes, it
can't find files that I know are there, and the search format is

How do you use the virtual DOS machines, Josh? My interest is in a
real one, but for now, this may work. Do you use VMWare, and do you
use a hardware or a software synthesizer? I don't see how the latter
can work, unless the version of DOS that you're using can support it.
That would be a wonderful development indeed! I know of an unofficial
MSDOS 7.1, taken from Windows 95/98, but although those system have a
talking command prompt, when you get into real DOS from there, I think
it's the same as the previous versions from Microsoft in that it won't
recognise software synthesizers. Modern versions from other
manufacturers or developers may be different.

Carlos, what is the diagnostic tracking service, and why is it a
problem? Usually, mocrosoft collects information about your computer
itself, not about you as an individual. Has this changed?

Rajmund, I agree with you. If I have to install extra programs or
change so many settings in a machine that it's unrecognisable from
when I first turned it on, it's not worth it. Carolyn, learning a new
way to do something is fine, and even necessary, when you have
absolutely no other option. It is not when the old way still works.


On 16/06/2017, Carolyn Arnold <> wrote:
As my 79-year-old husband and an instructor at the Morehead
Training Center both have said, "we have to learn new ways
to do things we know how to do." They say that to give
people confidence. We know how to do these things. We just,
in some cases, have to learn another way to perform the same

Best from,


-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of Ann Parsons
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 7:44 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here. I would just like to add
that the switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for
some because they are afraid. Part of the fear is that they
will not remember or understand keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is
able to do two things: first, get away from dependence on
keystroke learning; and second, have the ribbons explained
in a way they understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base
their training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid
than those who have learned their computer with a concept
centered approach. Cathy Ann Murtha promoted this type of
training and still does. It is effective because it allows
a user to be able to sit down at any computer running any
screen reader and operate it competently.

I can tell you that the method does work. I went to visit a
friend some years back, and she was running Windows with a
Baum braille display and their screen reader whose name
escapes me this morning.
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure. I was able to
retrieve my email and read it and send it. the commands for
the screen reader were different, but when I asked my friend
how to do X or Y, she gave me the commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the
keyboard side of things. I tried an iPhone for two years.
I did very little with it. It frustrated me because I
couldn't get things done fast enough. Now I have a flip
phone that I love and my apps are on my BrailleNote Touch.
I'm a happy camper. It may not work for others, but it's
working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat
long, however.
You may not want to continue the discussion and that's
fine. I may be
trying too hard to convince you of something I think may
benefit you.
But first, regarding number pad texting:
I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was
the context
and what someone might have been reasonably expected to
infer. Your
second message made much more clear what you were saying
and why. I
think your first message implied, not stated, what
appeared to be
skepticism. I'm not saying you intended to do so. I'm
saying that I
think it did, intended or not. You and others may
I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong
to change. I say may be because there may be other
explanations and
you may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point
out another
possible explanation later.
I strongly believe that the main reason most people have
switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't
properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out
when they
look at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same
way as XP
generally. There may be this or that small exception but
if you know
XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be
demonstrated that
almost anything can be done identically or almost
identically with the
two systems.
If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the
changes in
Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by
people more options and you don't have to work with them
if you don't
want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down
the computer
is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down
dialog that is
almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't
have to use the
new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is
already long enough.
If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it
wasn't clear to
you from looking at it yourself, that might account for
your hostility.
It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the
easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in
general, if
well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be
able to be
mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them
in general
to be minor. if people do want to try them, many people
prefer to use
some of the changes.
So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At
first, I
thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now,
that isn't my
concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm
not saying
that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you
should not use
Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10
because of privacy
concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be
supported in
about two and a half years, some people might wish to
switch to Linux
for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I
don't know
enough about Linux to know if the same quality of programs
such as
reading programs are available or if accessibility is as
good in
Linux. I gather that Linux is more of a techie operating
system where
users may have to go through more procedures and problems
setting up
things like peripherals.
but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular
system or version of Windows including whether you use XP
or not. As
I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to
change or
if Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which
is a
different reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If
you do have
resistance to change, looking at my material may convince
you that I
am right about Windows 7. If the reason is that for
whatever reason,
Windows 7 seems to you to be significantly different from
XP, seeing
my material may cause you to be less quick to reach
conclusions and to
seek out more information in future before reaching a
conclusion. If
either of these results occurs, you will benefit. If
neither does,
you'll have lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking
through and
trying procedures I use as examples.
----- Original Message -----
Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
vast, you seem
to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
express their
ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
use them
successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
simple word
and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
not the
only one who experiences such difficulties.
On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <
<>> wrote:
agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
than a touch
screen, or so I'd imagine.
On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
see how
anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
researched the
letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
couldn't imagine
trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
Kyocera Rally
has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
connect an
external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
I have never
used that feature.
On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <
I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
a number pad
of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
sure I will
be corrected. Pam.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone
Hi all,
I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.
Ann P.
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
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