Re: reddit

Monica Jones
 

I learned most of what I learned by exploring and reading manuals.I also had friends on lists who helped me learn as well. Technology has always come easily to me, but math is a different story. (grin) iaam about to delve into good old Windows ten. If I can help anyone, I'm glad to do it if I can.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 11:16 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit

Some of us don't know how to teach ourselves. And as for being afraid, if
you don't know things and you go messing around, you really can screw things
up so that you need somebody to come and straighten it out. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eleni Vamvakari
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2018 7:40 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit

I was taught various commands and whatnot. But after the basics, I
moved on and taught myself the rest. I can't imagine not being
curious about such things, not as a programmer or technician, but as a
regular user. I also can't begin to understand being afraid of
computers. Yes, there are certain things that I refuse to use, but I
don't fear them. I just don't prefer them. It was the same when I
was starting out and knew hardly anything. But my grandmother was
like that. She was afraid to touch the wrong button on a phone, or an
answering machine, etc. I couldn't comprehend that.

On 07/01/2018, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
A lot of people don't do much of these things, in part because a lot of
people are taught to use Windows and programs more or less by rote
memorization. Also, some people are more afraid of computers than others and
if they aren't taught properly won't have the confidence to do much of these
sorts of things.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Eleni Vamvakari
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2018 5:13 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit


How can you not learn about the programs that you use, particularly if
you use them on a daily basis? Is it not common to explore the menus,
options, etc. to know what the program can do? Granted, if you are
literally just learning to use a computer, some of it may not make
sense, but that's how you learn. Even teachers encourage their
students to explore and try things. I also can't understand the
difficulty in learning what sounds mean as opposed to having
everything spoken, especially if there are only one or two to
remember. In any case, all of this is why the NVDA manual and quick
start guide, as well as groups relating to technology, like this one,
exist. Too many things are dumbed down today, including Windows
itself. It's sad.

On 07/01/2018, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This may be a longer answer than you anticipated but explanation is
needed.

They are poor defaults because defaults should be set so that new and
inexperienced users will get the best results without tailoring settings
and
that, presumably, those who want to tailor them will have learned enough
to
do so. A lot of people never learn much about most programs they use.

When a new screen-reader user or an inexperienced Internet user is
learning,
automatic changes should not take place. the student needs to know and
understand the difference between browse and forms mode. The student
should
also have predictability as much as possible. The inexperienced user
shouldn't have to worry about times when automatic changes occur and
times
when they don't when entering the same kinds of fields. In other words,
screen-readers with automatic switching may switch you to forms mode when
arrowing but not when tabbing or perhaps it's the other way around. I
don't
use automatic switching and I don't recall. I want to control what mode
I'm
in. The experienced user may want and understand why such behavior
occurs.
The inexperienced user should not be exposed to it.

Sounds are used as the default to indicate when forms mode is switched to
and when browse mode is switched to. The default should be that these
changes are spoken. Hasn't the student got enough important things to
learn
and become comfortable with without adding a nonverbal indication as
default?

There are one or two other defaults in browse and forms mode that should
be
changed but I won't go into them here. These defaults reflect technical
people deciding what should be defaults without realizing what settings
should be used for inexperienced and general users a lot of whom won't
learn
and won't be interested in learning the details required to use the other
settings well.

Gene
-----Original Message -----

From: Eleni Vamvakari
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2018 2:17 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit


I am using Firefox ESR and NVDA 17.3. I have been using NVDA for at
least eight years, maybe more. I never had issues with automatic
browse mode, sounds, etc. But perhaps, in this case, it's causing
trouble. Out of curiosity, why do you say that these are poor
defaults?

On 04/01/2018, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I didn't say to activate the ok button, which I should have said for
completeness and because other people may want to change these settings.
I'm sure you would have done so anyway, but I want the instructions to
be
complete.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Eleni Vamvakari
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 9:40 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit


Do I need to change the mode itself in NVDA? If so, I forgot the
command for doing so, since it's usually automatic. I know nothing
about Chrome, except that it no longer works in XP, and its interface
is incredibly different from anything I've ever used. I tried it once
and found it confusing.

On 04/01/2018, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I did a bit more testing right now in Chrome. The check box isn't
displayed
if you try to move directly to it. You have to move through the
earlier
fields. I tabbed through them. I didn't try other ways. When I got
to
the
remember me checkbox, I downarrowed in browse mode and found the check
box.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 2:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit


I don't know what versions of programs you are using. I tested with my
XP
machine, in part because it wasn't convenient for me to test on my
Windows
7
machine at the time and, I may have had in the back of my mind that you
were
probably using XP, which may have made me a bit more likely to test in
that
way. I am using an old version of NVDA, one of the 13 series for
reasons
I
won't go into here. I didn't test with the latest XP conpatible
version,
though I either have it or one almost as new as that. I tested in
Chrome
and Firefox. I used Firefox ESR and the latest XP compatible version
of
Chrome. I found nothing while tabbing in either browse mode or forms
mode,
as I recall. In browse mode, I found the check box when down arrowing
from
the remember me check box. I may test with a newer version of NVDA out
of
curiosity but I'll wait first to see what others report.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Eleni Vamvakari
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 1:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit


I didn't find it at all, either labelled or unlabelled. The only
checkbox that is reading is the "remember me" one. Nothing else is
displayed at all. I am using Firefox and NVDA. I can try this with 7
instead of XP, but I doubt it would make much of a difference.

On 03/01/2018, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Here is more information. The I am not a robot check box isn't
properly
accessible. You can use it but how it appears changes depending on
the
browser you use. If you use chrome, at least the version I checked
with,
which isn't the latest, I see an unlabeled check box below the
remember
me
check box.
With firefox, the check box is read as I am not a robot.

Before, I said not to assume anything about forms. But if you were
using
chrome, you would have had no meaningful information to tell you what
the
check box is except that, if you knew that the I Am not a robot check
box
is
popular, you might have thought this might be one. So I shouldn't
have
said
not to assume anything on the assumption that you would have found it.
I
should have said, don't assume anything and check with more than one
browser. I'm sorry I thought you would very likely find it by looking
in
a
different way. You might or might not have.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 7:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit


Don't ever assume anything about forms. This form has no captcha edit
field
and you can't find what you are looking for by tabbing. Down arrow in
the
area after you resubmit your password. You will find an I'm not a
robot
checkbox.

When I say don't assume anything, I can understand why, if tabbing,
you
would not realize you had missed an item. But once finding out that
there
is likely a captcha, move in various ways, including down arrowing
through
the form somewhere around where you would expect a captcha to be.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Eleni Vamvakari
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] reddit


But I don't even see a place where I can enter the information, let
alone anything about a capcha. That's the problem!

On 03/01/2018, Jujube <ellaxyu@...> wrote:
I'd get a captcha solver like WebVisum or Rumola.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eleni Vamvakari" <elvam2167@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 16:12:43 -0500
Subject: [TechTalk] reddit

I am trying to join reddit but am having difficulties. I enter
my
username, my password (twice), and my e-mail. Then, I get a
message
like "care to try that again"? I read that it could have to do
with a
capcha but I can't find one anywhere, whether it's an accessible
one
with audio, or a completely inaccessible one! Can anyone help
me?

Thanks,
Eleni

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