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Is there any chance that we could possibly move on from this
thread? It's getting out of hand and I have had over 75 plus
messages with this topic. It's just my take on it. If the
discussion needs to continue, can you possibly change the subject
On 2/21/2020 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:
You don't know that. Interesting
how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions
on something he chooses to know nothing about from a
standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges?
If your mother board fails, please explain how having a
tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is
easier to diagnose the probem?
If your sound card fails and you
don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same
thing. There are certain instances where having a physical
keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare
instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart
phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make
having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.
You have followed these lists
long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems
require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use
such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully
boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how
you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which
very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just
to support your bias.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A
smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind
consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix
Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)
On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your
computer's mother board can develop a problem and the
computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the
question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't
use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this,
no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such
questions, after a point, you are simply begging the
question and setting up straw men because you are
irremediably biased against smart phones.
Your questions in the beginning
of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there
may be people who are worried about trying such phones and
people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a
point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No
user who knows something about computers or minicomputers,
which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of
speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may
become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or
minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes
could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or
cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the
risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people
constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any
activity has at least a very small amount of risk.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is
impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of
speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't
resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have
no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the
volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?
On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge
Yes, but once you learn the
device you will learn that loss of speech is usually
- Speech being
muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
- Voice over being
turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it
on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the
case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button
- Voice over volume
being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then
pressing up on the volume button.
It’s like any other
technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler
than they seem when the device is new to you.
Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is
no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over
without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing
the problem in the first place? No operating system, not
even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of
On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge
That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind
since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give
it a try.
can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I
take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!
Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...>
I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart
phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons
are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired
and retain some funtional vision to navigate around
a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and
purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably
had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones
with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart
Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward
to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind
consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.
On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene
statement about buttons is inaccurate based on
discussions I've seen on this topic before.
Most smart phones already had very few
buttons, and, as for the elimination of the
home button on the I-Phone, while I can't
speak from personal experience, I've seen
enough comments on lists like this that the
button's elimination doesn't mean blind people
can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen
simulates the presence of a button by
vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely
understand the situation and I await other
comments but how many people have you seen say
they stopped using an I-Phone because of
elimination of the home button?
state the worst case interpretation of
Origial Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 20,
2020 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart
According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart
flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology
that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to
be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it
proved to be very fragile, and CR did not
recommend it, especially in view of its very high
price tag. And it would probably not be a good
choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded
the touchscreen is relatively small and has no
tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend
in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons,
making it virtually impossible for a blind
consumer to use the phone without some sighted
help or a lot of hands-on training.
On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B
heard about a phone like you're describing
just the other day and I think they said
that Samsung was the company producing it.
From the way the guy was describing the way
it works, it sounds like it'll be a really
cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta
be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for
Take care. Mike. Sent
from my iBarstool.
Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 19,
2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart
My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in
his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a
smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature
flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart
phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any
info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?