locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gary Greico

Thank you.

On 22-Feb-20 4:12 AM, Gene wrote:
The thread is ending by itself.  If it doesn't produce new useful information but continues, I'll ask that it end. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Is there any chance that we could possibly move on from this thread?  It's getting out of hand and I have had over 75 plus messages with this topic.  It's just my take on it.  If the discussion needs to continue, can you possibly change the subject line?  Thanks!


On 2/21/2020 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:
You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 
You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)


On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 
Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  


On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.


From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.


From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  






On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 


You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:

Hi Lisa,


I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.




Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Hi, all.

My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?



Lisa Belville

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