locked Re: warning if you doing business


Yes, it's an active and thriving list with many transactions occurring
on a daily basis. There are nearly 1000 members but if you want the
most exposure for your ad whether you're selling, buying, or trading
then it's the list you want to be on and not the smaller, less active,
and moribund lists which are still out there besides most of the
people on those smaller lists are on BlindAds as well. To subscribe
just send a blank email message to the following email address,


Take care,


On 3/7/20, Evan Reese <mentat1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
My thought would be that if you want to find a nice braille display at a
good price is to subscribe to the Blind Ads list.
I got a perfectly functional Pac Mate Omni BX version with a great 40-cell
braille display from someone on that list for $400.
Sure, it's older technology, but it'll still do a lot of stuff. And for
plain old reading, it's more than adequate.
there have been other great deals on braille displays as well.
The traffic is pretty high though. But one good deal makes it worthwhile to


-----Original Message-----
From: David L Minton, Jr
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 12:58 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] warning if you doing business

Good afternoon, I am almost 45 years old, I am going at the learning braille

again for the third time. I am doing a lot better this time with Hadley. I
am hoping I can find a reasonable priced braille note or display that can
help me in practicing my braille before I purchase a high priced display.
Any help or thoughts would be very much appreciated. Have a great day.
On Mar 7, 2020, at 12:28 PM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Group,

OK, I'm the culprit here! I am the one who wrote the corrective post
concerning Brian's original post. I used to be a tutor of
sorts--instructing blind people in everything from Spanish language to

...But you have to admit, when someone writes a post castigating everyone

who doesn't have the desire to use Braille as their chief focus for
acquiring information and then who at the same time--castigates those who

post sloppy e-mails as the chief example of just why everybody should
focus on Braille--the temptation was irresistible.

I wasn't aware of Brian's limitations and for that I am truly sorry.

On 3/7/2020 7:13 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
Hi all,

No, he is not a troll. He has learning differences. Deal!

Ann P.

Original message:
I'm sorry, but this message is difficult to read. Is this a self-troll?
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 12:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] warning if you doing business
aAmen if you don't braille than you are not truly literate. If you

doubt this then read emails from blind people who don't know braille
there spelling and gramar and punctuation leave alot to be desired. I
have been there myself if I don't read then I to will fall in to trap as

well. If you truly want to be literate then you just have toread and not

just listen to audio. Those of us who do prefer braille and would
rather read than listen have only audio as the option all to often. For

me if I want to stay literate then I have to read braille and as I said

in my email to Grumpy Dave I can't amagine my life with out braille. I

have had braille most of my life and I would loose independence ifI were

to not know braille. Reading braille is active reading but listening to

audio or computer speech is just passive reading. I prefer to activly
read but most of the time I can't because it's audio only. I do rember

haveing to cary volumes of braille books acrost campus at the blind
school but I never gave it a though it was just what I hav to do it was

no problem for me at all. The campus at the Michigan school for the
blind in Lansing Michigan covered a 4 city block area. I tried college

back in 1987-1988 and I could have donee much better if I had braille. I

had tapes from recording forthe blind but I had issues with the readers

with pronouncations. I remember taking test and what I heard during the

test sounded nothing like what I heard on the tapes. If I would have
had my books in braille I would have known the correct words and the
tests would have made sinse. If yur going to read on tape then you must

be able to speak properly and say your words properly. There was the
issue of only tape at a time and having to send 2 copies of every book
to recording for the blind to be recorded. Audio is usless if I don't
know what you are saying. This is why we need braille. Braille readers
don't make a big deal of how many volumes a book is it just is.
Brian Sackrider
On 3/6/2020 7:26 AM, chris judge wrote:
This is true. There is a huge difference between not learning braille
if you've lost your site later in life. The unfortunate fact is that
even people who are blind since birth are not learning braille at the
rate they were when I was a kid 50 years ago. If you are blind since
birth and you don't learn braille you miss out on basic literacy. How
do you learn proper spelling, grammar, punctuation and such if you
don't learn braile. If you have had site you already understand these
things so knowing braille isn't as paramount.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Sent: March 6, 2020 12:42 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] warning if you doing business
Hello everyone:
I would like to point out that many blind people lose their eyesight
later in life and they find it too difficult to learn braille. It is
much easier for them to access information by listening to audio. It’s

hard enough for them to get over losing their eyesight and live without

seeing their loved ones or other things ever again. The last thing they

want is to learn a new skill that they may find just too difficult.
After obtaining my iPhone, I attended a users group where are the
people taught each other to use iOS devices. While at the group one
day, one of the group leaders brought a focus 40 refreshable braille
display for everyone to examine. I was the only blind person in the
room interested in touching the device because I knew braille and I
owned a previous generation of that device. It was not discussed, but I

knew that they were not interested because most of them had lost their

eyesight later in life. I suspect that they found it much easier to
listen to audio than reading braille. Plus, most of them had learned
how to access information using their iPhones. I’m sure they found it
much easier to whip out their iPhones and listen to their books,
podcasts, scan documents and do everything else we can do with our
iPhones. I realize that not everyone owns a smart phone because they
have not found a way to obtain one. I also realize that not everyone is

into these types of gadgets. However, many blind people have discovered

how great these gadgets are and how useful they can be in helping them

become more independent. For many of us, that is the route we have
In any case, don’t be too surprised if you meet a blind person who is
not interested in learning braille. Don’t be too hard on those people.

Maybe they just prefer to do what is easier.
I am so glad that refreshable braille displays exist now. I am also
glad that low cost refreshable braille displays are being developed. I

definitely don’t miss the days of carrying bulky braille books to and
from my classes. I do not miss the days of trying to look up words in
the dictionary and dealing with a whole bookshelf of braille books. No

thank you! I do not miss my five volume braille New Testament.
If I did not already on a refreshable braille display, I would
definitely look into obtaining the orbit braille reader or the braille


Anyhow, these are just my rambling opinions.
Victor Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 5, 2020, at 7:40 PM, brian <bsackrider55@gmail.com> wrote:
 Thanks Grumpy Dave for your explination. I would be willing to
pay a few dollars to get braille. I am not saying that I should get
for free but not to have the option is my complaint. My local
liberary use to provide braille for 10 cents per page. I was also
told that if I provided the paper they would braille what I wanted.
They required 67 weight paper which I can get at Staples. All to
often we are forced to except only audio as the only format that is
available. Braille will always be my prefered format because I prefer

to read for myself instead of just listen. You say that you hate
braille but you can use it well I feel the same about audio. Why do
we have to be locked in to just one format? How many people would
rather read than listen? Blind or sighted. People who prefer to read

than should be commended instead of being kind of bashed for it. If
not many blind people request braille than it should be no trouble to

provide it. Braille is not that dificult to produce once you have the

equipment. my liberary had no trouble all they needed was files in
microsoft word and the paper and they were good to go. I use to get
my weekly meterials for my church all in grade 2 braille. It was
really great to finally be an active participant in the service
instead just a pasive listener. To be able to read along with everyone

else the verses and hyms and classes lessons is a great feeling you
just can't discribe the independence that it givesyou. It's kind of
like having access to dvs you can finally know what is going on when
there is all of that dead air. I was able to read infront of the
church and be active in bible study and even lead the groop all using

braille. I do use braille menus when ever possible even if I don't
really need it just to let them see that somone is acually using it.
Braille has given me a very full life and I don't know whear my life
would be with out braille. I feel that every blind person who is able

to read braille should learn it. I do understand that there are blind

people who have medical conditions that prevents them from being able

to read braille. For them they have no choice but to use audio but I

do have the choice I just don't like being limited to just audio only

and not braille. You hate braille and I hate audio. a good example
of when I wish that I had braille instead of a file was when I
requested my local newspaper to be accessable. my lions club
purchassed a sara reading machine for me there was no braille manual
but there was a print manual. I had to go to the help file on the
machine and try to find what I wanted. When I called the paper office

they asked what files my machine could read. If I had a braille
manual I could have just looked it up while on the phone and gave them

the answer. I had to call back after I went to the help file and
found it. This is very time concuming I can look up somthing much
faster in braille than any other format. I am not saying that I can
do it as quick as a sighted person can with print but for me it's the

fastest way for me to get the job done. When I was a kid I attended
the Michigan school the blind in Lansing and we had to learn braille
and all of our books were in braille. There was no I don't want to
learn it you had to. I will say that I can certainly listen much
faster than I can read but when it comes to looking up somthing
braille is faster hands down. I have been blind since birth and thats

all I ever knew was braille. It's like the sighted grew up with
print. I wanted to learn the opticon at the rehab center but they
would not let me because they said that I was not fast enough. I felt

that I was learning and making progress and I should had the right to

continue but they said no. If somone really wants to learn a new skil

then they should beallowed to do so. If I am determind to learn
somthing that then I will even though it might take more time then the

teacher would like. I guess that modavation means nothing. If somone

reallly wants to learn braille so what ifit takes several month to do

so they should not be told no you can't continue. If companies had
the equipment to produce braille they could charge me for the cost of

the paper to get braille manuals or catalogs.
On 3/5/2020 9:26 PM, Dave wrote:
Hello Brian,

I have nothing against Braille other than the hassle it is to create
it, such as a Manual in Braille.

I've been blind for a long time now, and there were many times when
I would have Kissed the Feet of anyone who gave me a manual in Audio
format. many times have I had to just Wing it, learning by Guess
and by Golly. Once Computers became a Tool for the Blind, Guessing
was not always the best thing to do, as guessing wrong could ruin
your day in a Big way. Still can.

but, Brian, I have no Beef with Braille. To produce it is just not

easy task. And I would guess that most manufacturers of items for
the blind, may not want to hire another Staff member to do nothing
but print out Manuals in Braille.

Yes, it all sounds good, until the costs of doing such a thing is

These days, I do expect a Manual at least in a PDF format, if not an
Audio file. And if I own my own Braille Printer, I can then print
out the PDF file.

Although, I can't afford one of those printers, so I do without.

However, I could run the Audio file through an Audio to Text
converter, and then print that file out in Braille.

When I get nothing but an On Line Manual, where I need to go On Line
to read the thing. I am Thankful for at least that much, but I
always look to see if I can just download the manual so I don't need
to be going On Line so much.

Call it my personal Taste.

I would think most who are Blind have learned over and over again to
look for Work Arounds for doing many things in Life.

You like Braille, and while I do use it, I Hate it. So a Braille
Manual would be a waste of resources to send me one.

You Love it, and can use it well. So, when the Company doesn't send
a manual in Braille, but has sent you one in PDF, or even Audio, if
you want a manual in Braille, the Work around is to convert that
Audio or
PDF file into Braille. And if you are like me, and can't afford a
Braille Printer, there are Services that will take your Manual file
and make you a manual in Braille.

it may cost you a few dollars, which again is all part of the Life
of someone who is Blind. In the past, I have hired Readers to read
Manuals on Tape. Paid them $10 for every hour of Recorded material.

I've paid people to read my Mail. This was before smart Phones had
built in Cameras and OCR programs. I paid them $10 an hour too.
was back in the 1980's and 90's.

I haven't had to hire anyone for about 20 years now

And Dare I bring up the Quality of Manuals? So often, regardless of
what Format it comes in, the information in the thing is totally
It doesn't make Sense, and you can't tell if it is a Translation of
something in Chinese to English, or from Chinese to Spanish and then
Russian, and then to English etc.

And some manuals that come in English are so poorly written, lack
helpful information and seem to be missing a great deal of actual
instructional information and are next to useless in any format.

Grumpy Dave

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
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Phone: 727-498-0121
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