locked Re: warning if you doing business


Sorry Ann, but learning differences don't excuse his nastiness and
personal attacks on list, andc, he did stick his foot in his mouth
with his error-laden messages while claiming literacy due to his using


On 3/7/20, Ann Parsons <akp@sero.email> wrote:
Hi all,

No, he is not a troll. He has learning differences. Deal!

Ann P.

Original message:
I'm sorry, but this message is difficult to read. Is this a self-troll?
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 12:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] warning if you doing business
aAmen if you don't braille than you are not truly literate. If you
doubt this then read emails from blind people who don't know braille
there spelling and gramar and punctuation leave alot to be desired. I
have been there myself if I don't read then I to will fall in to trap
as well. If you truly want to be literate then you just have toread
and not just listen to audio. Those of us who do prefer braille and
would rather read than listen have only audio as the option all to
often. For me if I want to stay literate then I have to read braille
and as I said in my email to Grumpy Dave I can't amagine my life with
out braille. I have had braille most of my life and I would loose
independence ifI were to not know braille. Reading braille is active
reading but listening to audio or computer speech is just passive
reading. I prefer to activly read but most of the time I can't because
it's audio only. I do rember haveing to cary volumes of braille books
acrost campus at the blind school but I never gave it a though it was
just what I hav to do it was no problem for me at all. The campus at
the Michigan school for the blind in Lansing Michigan covered a 4 city
block area. I tried college back in 1987-1988 and I could have donee
much better if I had braille. I had tapes from recording forthe blind
but I had issues with the readers with pronouncations. I remember
taking test and what I heard during the test sounded nothing like what
I heard on the tapes. If I would have had my books in braille I would
have known the correct words and the tests would have made sinse. If
yur going to read on tape then you must be able to speak properly and
say your words properly. There was the issue of only tape at a time
and having to send 2 copies of every book to recording for the blind to
be recorded. Audio is usless if I don't know what you are saying. This
is why we need braille. Braille readers don't make a big deal of how
many volumes a book is it just is.
Brian Sackrider
On 3/6/2020 7:26 AM, chris judge wrote:
This is true. There is a huge difference between not learning braille
if you've lost your site later in life. The unfortunate fact is that
even people who are blind since birth are not learning braille at the
rate they were when I was a kid 50 years ago. If you are blind since
birth and you don't learn braille you miss out on basic literacy. How
do you learn proper spelling, grammar, punctuation and such if you
don't learn braile. If you have had site you already understand these
things so knowing braille isn't as paramount.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Sent: March 6, 2020 12:42 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] warning if you doing business
Hello everyone:
I would like to point out that many blind people lose their eyesight
later in life and they find it too difficult to learn braille. It is
much easier for them to access information by listening to audio. It’s
hard enough for them to get over losing their eyesight and live without
seeing their loved ones or other things ever again. The last thing they
want is to learn a new skill that they may find just too difficult.
After obtaining my iPhone, I attended a users group where are the
people taught each other to use iOS devices. While at the group one
day, one of the group leaders brought a focus 40 refreshable braille
display for everyone to examine. I was the only blind person in the
room interested in touching the device because I knew braille and I
owned a previous generation of that device. It was not discussed, but I
knew that they were not interested because most of them had lost their
eyesight later in life. I suspect that they found it much easier to
listen to audio than reading braille. Plus, most of them had learned
how to access information using their iPhones. I’m sure they found it
much easier to whip out their iPhones and listen to their books,
podcasts, scan documents and do everything else we can do with our
iPhones. I realize that not everyone owns a smart phone because they
have not found a way to obtain one. I also realize that not everyone is
into these types of gadgets. However, many blind people have discovered
how great these gadgets are and how useful they can be in helping them
become more independent. For many of us, that is the route we have
In any case, don’t be too surprised if you meet a blind person who is
not interested in learning braille. Don’t be too hard on those people.
Maybe they just prefer to do what is easier.
I am so glad that refreshable braille displays exist now. I am also
glad that low cost refreshable braille displays are being developed. I
definitely don’t miss the days of carrying bulky braille books to and
from my classes. I do not miss the days of trying to look up words in
the dictionary and dealing with a whole bookshelf of braille books. No
thank you! I do not miss my five volume braille New Testament.
If I did not already on a refreshable braille display, I would
definitely look into obtaining the orbit braille reader or the braille

Anyhow, these are just my rambling opinions.
Victor Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 5, 2020, at 7:40 PM, brian <bsackrider55@gmail.com> wrote:
 Thanks Grumpy Dave for your explination. I would be willing to
pay a few dollars to get braille. I am not saying that I should get for
free but not to have the option is my complaint. My local liberary use
to provide braille for 10 cents per page. I was also told that if I
provided the paper they would braille what I wanted. They required 67
weight paper which I can get at Staples. All to often we are forced to
except only audio as the only format that is available. Braille will
always be my prefered format because I prefer to read for myself
instead of just listen. You say that you hate braille but you can use
it well I feel the same about audio. Why do we have to be locked in to
just one format? How many people would rather read than listen? Blind
or sighted. People who prefer to read than should be commended instead
of being kind of bashed for it. If not many blind people request
braille than it should be no trouble to provide it. Braille is not that
dificult to produce once you have the equipment. my liberary had no
trouble all they needed was files in microsoft word and the paper and
they were good to go. I use to get my weekly meterials for my church
all in grade 2 braille. It was really great to finally be an active
participant in the service instead just a pasive listener. To be able
to read along with everyone else the verses and hyms and classes
lessons is a great feeling you just can't discribe the independence
that it givesyou. It's kind of like having access to dvs you can
finally know what is going on when there is all of that dead air. I
was able to read infront of the church and be active in bible study and
even lead the groop all using braille. I do use braille menus when
ever possible even if I don't really need it just to let them see that
somone is acually using it. Braille has given me a very full life and
I don't know whear my life would be with out braille. I feel that
every blind person who is able to read braille should learn it. I do
understand that there are blind people who have medical conditions that
prevents them from being able to read braille. For them they have no
choice but to use audio but I do have the choice I just don't like
being limited to just audio only and not braille. You hate braille and
I hate audio. a good example of when I wish that I had braille instead
of a file was when I requested my local newspaper to be accessable. my
lions club purchassed a sara reading machine for me there was no
braille manual but there was a print manual. I had to go to the help
file on the machine and try to find what I wanted. When I called the
paper office they asked what files my machine could read. If I had a
braille manual I could have just looked it up while on the phone and
gave them the answer. I had to call back after I went to the help file
and found it. This is very time concuming I can look up somthing much
faster in braille than any other format. I am not saying that I can do
it as quick as a sighted person can with print but for me it's the
fastest way for me to get the job done. When I was a kid I attended
the Michigan school the blind in Lansing and we had to learn braille
and all of our books were in braille. There was no I don't want to
learn it you had to. I will say that I can certainly listen much
faster than I can read but when it comes to looking up somthing braille
is faster hands down. I have been blind since birth and thats all I
ever knew was braille. It's like the sighted grew up with print. I
wanted to learn the opticon at the rehab center but they would not let
me because they said that I was not fast enough. I felt that I was
learning and making progress and I should had the right to continue but
they said no. If somone really wants to learn a new skil then they
should beallowed to do so. If I am determind to learn somthing that
then I will even though it might take more time then the teacher would
like. I guess that modavation means nothing. If somone reallly wants
to learn braille so what ifit takes several month to do so they should
not be told no you can't continue. If companies had the equipment to
produce braille they could charge me for the cost of the paper to get
braille manuals or catalogs.
On 3/5/2020 9:26 PM, Dave wrote:
Hello Brian,

I have nothing against Braille other than the hassle it is to create
it, such as a Manual in Braille.

I've been blind for a long time now, and there were many times when
I would have Kissed the Feet of anyone who gave me a manual in Audio
format. many times have I had to just Wing it, learning by Guess
and by Golly. Once Computers became a Tool for the Blind, Guessing
was not always the best thing to do, as guessing wrong could ruin
your day in a Big way. Still can.

but, Brian, I have no Beef with Braille. To produce it is just not an
easy task. And I would guess that most manufacturers of items for
the blind, may not want to hire another Staff member to do nothing
but print out Manuals in Braille.

Yes, it all sounds good, until the costs of doing such a thing is

These days, I do expect a Manual at least in a PDF format, if not an
Audio file. And if I own my own Braille Printer, I can then print
out the PDF file.

Although, I can't afford one of those printers, so I do without.

However, I could run the Audio file through an Audio to Text
converter, and then print that file out in Braille.

When I get nothing but an On Line Manual, where I need to go On Line
to read the thing. I am Thankful for at least that much, but I
always look to see if I can just download the manual so I don't need
to be going On Line so much.

Call it my personal Taste.

I would think most who are Blind have learned over and over again to
look for Work Arounds for doing many things in Life.

You like Braille, and while I do use it, I Hate it. So a Braille
Manual would be a waste of resources to send me one.

You Love it, and can use it well. So, when the Company doesn't send
a manual in Braille, but has sent you one in PDF, or even Audio, if
you want a manual in Braille, the Work around is to convert that Audio
PDF file into Braille. And if you are like me, and can't afford a
Braille Printer, there are Services that will take your Manual file
and make you a manual in Braille.

it may cost you a few dollars, which again is all part of the Life
of someone who is Blind. In the past, I have hired Readers to read
Manuals on Tape. Paid them $10 for every hour of Recorded material.

I've paid people to read my Mail. This was before smart Phones had
built in Cameras and OCR programs. I paid them $10 an hour too. this
was back in the 1980's and 90's.

I haven't had to hire anyone for about 20 years now

And Dare I bring up the Quality of Manuals? So often, regardless of
what Format it comes in, the information in the thing is totally Nuts!
It doesn't make Sense, and you can't tell if it is a Translation of
something in Chinese to English, or from Chinese to Spanish and then
Russian, and then to English etc.

And some manuals that come in English are so poorly written, lack
helpful information and seem to be missing a great deal of actual
instructional information and are next to useless in any format.

Grumpy Dave

Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
Email: laz@talkingmp3players.com
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr

Join main@TechTalk.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.