Hi Group,
I am a bit strange with Thunderbird. (OK no comments from the peanut
gallery.) Most blind people don't like this, but I like 'spell
check as you type.' This can be turned on under Thunderbird options.
With 'spell check as you type' when you proof read your messages,
your screen readr should say 'spelling error' on any misspelled
word. You then use the context key to choose the replacements.
To activate 'spell check as you type:'
1. Alt plus T for tools and arrow up once for options and press
enter.
2. From the tree view, arrow down to composition.
3. Tab once to the list of tabs and use left/right arrows to select
spelling.
4. tab around there and choose what you want.
Such things as 'check spelling before you send message' 'spell check
as you type' and so on are available.
5. When you have made your choices, make sure to tab to the OK
button and press enter to save the changes.
Now for some reason, I do not see a hot key listed in Thunderbird
68.0, but the hotkey control + shift + P still works to run the
spell checker manually.
It takes a bit of getting used to to select the correct replacements
and such, but keep working with it and you should get used to it
before too long.
On 3/7/2020 6:41 PM, Gene wrote:
If so, then a discussion in using the Thunderbird spell
checker might be a good idea. I don't use Thunderbird, but I
would think the spell checker would be similar to those I've
used in other programs.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] spell checker
According to his email properties he's using Thunderbird, but
he should probably verify this with the version as well.
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] spell checker
What e-mail program are you using or are you using a webmail
interface?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 12:53 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] spell checker
People on this list and on other lists have told me
to use a spell checker and thats all they say. They did not
give me any options or tell me whear to get oneor how to use
one. I don't have microsoft office. What is a good spell
checker that works with nvda? Just telling me what I should do
but not providing with out anyhelp information does me no good
and is not helping me at all. I have not taken any computer
classes what I know I have learned on my own. It seems that
people are all to willing to tell me what I should do but don't
give any helpful sugestions. I know that I do need help and I
do want to make mymessages more readable. It's not that I don't
care I just don't know what to do about the problem. It is true
that if I write to fast than I will make lots of mistakes. The
same is true if I write in braille. I do get very slopy if I
write to fast.
Brian Sackrider
On 3/7/2020 12:13 PM, Gene wrote:
You are making unsupported statements. How do you know
Brian has learning differences? How do you know he was
coasted through school? I'll offer an alternative
explanation. I'm not saying either are correct nor am I
saying which one may or may not account for observed phenomena
better. But how do you know that some or many of these errors
are not the result of someone feeling strongly about something
and rushing to get the message written as quickly as
possible? If Brian is typing far above the speed at which he
types more accurately, that may result in some of what is
observed. And, since I've seen messages from Brian that don't
have all these mistakes, I'll consider my theory to be a
possibly better explanation, since I don't know Brian's
background and I think it is absurd to infer some sort of
learning differences based on a few e-mails.
But none of this, learning differences, spelling
difficulties, a rush to type as quickly as you can to get your
message out as fast as possible, none of these possibilities
precludes the use of a spell checker.
To this point, I have been writing as a list member. I am
now writing as the list owner.
This discussion has been very interesting and we know more
about each other than we did, thus helping build community on
the list. But if the discussion becomes mostly one of how
messages are written, I'll close it. I realize that you and a
few others may want to respond to what I and others have said
but this part of the discussion shouldn't continue for more
than a few more messages.
Now, I'm writing as a list member again.
Brian, I would think it may be uncomfortable seeing your
writing critiqued. But keep these things in mind and you may
find the experience useful:
My view is that if I expect someone to spend the time
reading my messages and thinking about them, I have a certain
responsibility to make them reasonably readable. In your
case, many people probably have to stop to review phrases
where words are written together without spaces. Because I've
seen messages from you that are much better written, it
appears to me that if you get emotional about a subject, you
rush to write what you want as quickly as you can. the result
is errors that make your messages difficult to read, such as
words written together with no spaces.
As to spelling, in general I would just let that go. But
when you call a whole class of people illiterate, then don't
use a spellchecker and have misspelled wordafter misspelled
word, then, like it or not, you become part of the
discussion. Like it or not, literacy is partly sending a
message without perhaps thirty or forty or more misspelled
words. And nothing precludes you from using a spellchecker.
As I said, in general I wouldn't comment on spelling, but it
is inevitable that at least a few people will when you accuse
people of being illiterate and don't use a spell checker,
resulting in a great many misspellings. It's as though I
attended a cooking contest, made a speech before the event in
which I said that with frozen dinners, no one knows how to
cook anymore, then I burned the soup and my main dish.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] warning if you doing
business
Hi all,
I could write a long rant about how I am treated when I correct
people's spelling publicly. I have been called harsh and
arrogant and
more. I won't do that because it would be counter-productive.
I will
say, however, that taking advantage of someone who has made a
public
mistake is, I feel, cruel. it demeans those who perpetuate such
crimes.
If you wish to correct Brian's writing, you might do so
privately,
thereby giving him the dignity he deserves. It isn't his fault
that he
was coasted through school. It isn't his fault that he may not
have a
braille display or possess hard copy braille so that he could
improve
his writing.
If you want to help, take it off-list! Truly be of service and
not
part of the problem.
Ann P.
Original message:
> Now Brian,
> I don't want to personalize this, but you say you're a good
> Braille reader now: correct? You say that people who use
audio
> primarily aren't truly literate and you can tell by the way
they write
> e-mails: is that what you're saying? Well let me be your
teacher and
> quote and correct your own mistakes that you have made in
your lengthy
> reply.
> <spelling error> aAmen(I guess you are trying to
say Amen to that or
> something similar--note the repetition of the first letter
A.)
> <grammatical clumsiness> if you don't braille than
you are not truly
> literate. (I guess you mean: if you don't know/use/are
competent in,
> Braille then you are not truly literate.)
> <run on sentence> If you doubt this then read emails
from blind people
> who don't know braille there spelling and (There should be
a period
> after the word Braille.)
> <spelling error> gramar and punctuation leave alot to
be desired. (In
> this sentence grammar and a lot are misspelled.)
> <run on sentence> I have been there myself if I don't
read then I to
> will fall in to trap as well. (There should be a period
after the word
> myself.)
> If you truly want to be literate then you just have
> <spelling error> toread and not just listen to
audio. (there is a run
> on word toread that should be separated into 'to read.')
> Those of us who do prefer braille and would rather read
than listen
> have only audio as the option all to often. For me if I
want to stay
> literate then I have to read braille and as I said in my
email to Grumpy
> Dave I can't
> <spelling error> amagine my life with out braille.
(I guess you mean
> 'imagine my life without Braille.)
> <wrong use of the word loose> I have had braille most
of my life and I
> would loose independence (I guess you mean lose
independence.)
> <spelling error> ifI were to not know braille. (You
ran the words If
> and I together.)
> Reading braille is active reading but listening to audio or
computer
> speech is just passive reading.
> I prefer to <spelling error> activly read but most of
the time I can't
> because it's audio only. (You misspelled actively.)
> <spelling errors and a run on sentence> I do rember
haveing to cary
> volumes of braille books acrost campus at the blind school
but I never
> gave it a though it was just what I hav to do it was no
problem for me
> at all. (You misspelled remember, having, across and
probably mean the
> word had when you wrote hav. And I almost forgot, you used
the word
> though instead of thought.) (There should be a period
after the word
> thought.)
> The campus at the Michigan school for the blind in Lansing
Michigan
> covered a 4 city block area. I tried college back in
1987-1988 and I
> could have
> <spelling error> donee much better if I had braille.
(You misspelled
> the word done.)
> <spelling errors> I had tapes from recording forthe
blind but I had
> issues with the readers with pronouncations. (you ran the
words for
> and the together. You misspelled pronunciation.)
> I remember taking test and what I heard during the test
sounded nothing
> like what I heard on the tapes.
> If I would have had my books in braille I would have known
the correct
> words and the tests would have made <spelling error>
sinse. (You
> misspelled the word sense.)
> <spelling error> If yur going to read on tape then
you must be able to
> speak properly and say your words properly. (You
misspelled the word
> you're--or at least I think that's what you meant by
writing the word yur.)
> <grammatical oddity> There was the issue of only tape
at a time and
> having to send 2 copies of every book to recording for the
blind to be
> recorded. (I'm not quite sure, but I think you meant 'only
one tape at
> a time.)
> <spelling error> Audio is usless if I don't know what
you are saying.
> (You misspelled useless.)
> This is why we need braille. Braille readers don't make a
big deal of
> how many volumes a book is it just is.
> LONG STORY SHORT: BRIAN, YOU ARE A POOR EXAMPLE OF THE IDEA
THAT BRAILLE
> READERS WRITE COHERENT AND GRAMATICALLY CORRECT E-MAIL
MESSAGES.
> On 3/6/2020 3:01 PM, brian wrote:
>> aAmen if you don't braille than you are not truly
literate. If you
>> doubt this then read emails from blind people who don't
know braille
>> there spelling and gramar and punctuation leave alot to
be desired. I
>> have been there myself if I don't read then I to will
fall in to trap
>> as well. If you truly want to be literate then you
just have toread
>> and not just listen to audio. Those of us who do
prefer braille and
>> would rather read than listen have only audio as the
option all to
>> often. For me if I want to stay literate then I have to
read braille
>> and as I said in my email to Grumpy Dave I can't
amagine my life with
>> out braille. I have had braille most of my life and I
would loose
>> independence ifI were to not know braille. Reading
braille is active
>> reading but listening to audio or computer speech is
just passive
>> reading. I prefer to activly read but most of the time
I can't
>> because it's audio only. I do rember haveing to cary
volumes of
>> braille books acrost campus at the blind school but I
never gave it a
>> though it was just what I hav to do it was no problem
for me at all.
>> The campus at the Michigan school for the blind in
Lansing Michigan
>> covered a 4 city block area. I tried college back in
1987-1988 and I
>> could have donee much better if I had braille. I had
tapes from
>> recording forthe blind but I had issues with the
readers with
>> pronouncations. I remember taking test and what I
heard during the
>> test sounded nothing like what I heard on the tapes.
If I would have
>> had my books in braille I would have known the correct
words and the
>> tests would have made sinse. If yur going to read on
tape then you
>> must be able to speak properly and say your words
properly. There was
>> the issue of only tape at a time and having to send 2
copies of every
>> book to recording for the blind to be recorded. Audio
is usless if I
>> don't know what you are saying. This is why we need
braille. Braille
>> readers don't make a big deal of how many volumes a
book is it just is.
>> Brian Sackrider
>> On 3/6/2020 7:26 AM, chris judge wrote:
>>> This is true. There is a huge difference between
not learning braille
>>> if you've lost your site later in life. The
unfortunate fact is that
>>> even people who are blind since birth are not
learning braille at the
>>> rate they were when I was a kid 50 years ago. If
you are blind since
>>> birth and you don't learn braille you miss out on
basic literacy. How
>>> do you learn proper spelling, grammar, punctuation
and such if you
>>> don't learn braile. If you have had site you
already understand these
>>> things so knowing braille isn't as paramount.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
On Behalf Of
>>> Victor
>>> Sent: March 6, 2020 12:42 AM
>>> To: main@techtalk.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] warning if you doing
business
>>> Hello everyone:
>>> I would like to point out that many blind people
lose their eyesight
>>> later in life and they find it too difficult to
learn braille. It is
>>> much easier for them to access information by
listening to audio.
>>> It’s hard enough for them to get over losing their
eyesight and live
>>> without seeing their loved ones or other things
ever again. The last
>>> thing they want is to learn a new skill that they
may find just too
>>> difficult.
>>> After obtaining my iPhone, I attended a users group
where are the
>>> people taught each other to use iOS devices. While
at the group one
>>> day, one of the group leaders brought a focus 40
refreshable braille
>>> display for everyone to examine. I was the only
blind person in the
>>> room interested in touching the device because I
knew braille and I
>>> owned a previous generation of that device. It was
not discussed, but
>>> I knew that they were not interested because most
of them had lost
>>> their eyesight later in life. I suspect that they
found it much
>>> easier to listen to audio than reading braille.
Plus, most of them
>>> had learned how to access information using their
iPhones. I’m sure
>>> they found it much easier to whip out their iPhones
and listen to
>>> their books, podcasts, scan documents and do
everything else we can
>>> do with our iPhones. I realize that not everyone
owns a smart phone
>>> because they have not found a way to obtain one. I
also realize that
>>> not everyone is into these types of gadgets.
However, many blind
>>> people have discovered how great these gadgets are
and how useful
>>> they can be in helping them become more
independent. For many of us,
>>> that is the route we have chosen.
>>> In any case, don’t be too surprised if you meet a
blind person who is
>>> not interested in learning braille. Don’t be too
hard on those
>>> people. Maybe they just prefer to do what is
easier.
>>> I am so glad that refreshable braille displays
exist now. I am also
>>> glad that low cost refreshable braille displays are
being developed.
>>> I definitely don’t miss the days of carrying bulky
braille books to
>>> and from my classes. I do not miss the days of
trying to look up
>>> words in the dictionary and dealing with a whole
bookshelf of braille
>>> books. No thank you! I do not miss my five volume
braille New Testament.
>>> If I did not already on a refreshable braille
display, I would
>>> definitely look into obtaining the orbit braille
reader or the
>>> braille me.
>>> Anyhow, these are just my rambling opinions.
>>> Victor Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On Mar 5, 2020, at 7:40 PM, brian <bsackrider55@...>
wrote:
>>>> Thanks Grumpy Dave for your explination.
I would be willing to
>>>> pay a few dollars to get braille. I am not
saying that I should get
>>>> for free but not to have the option is my
complaint. My local
>>>> liberary use to provide braille for 10 cents
per page. I was also
>>>> told that if I provided the paper they would
braille what I wanted.
>>>> They required 67 weight paper which I can get
at Staples. All to
>>>> often we are forced to except only audio as the
only format that is
>>>> available. Braille will always be my prefered
format because I
>>>> prefer to read for myself instead of just
listen. You say that you
>>>> hate braille but you can use it well I feel the
same about audio.
>>>> Why do we have to be locked in to just one
format? How many people
>>>> would rather read than listen? Blind or
sighted. People who prefer
>>>> to read than should be commended instead of
being kind of bashed for
>>>> it. If not many blind people request braille
than it should be no
>>>> trouble to provide it. Braille is not that
dificult to produce once
>>>> you have the equipment. my liberary had no
trouble all they needed
>>>> was files in microsoft word and the paper and
they were good to go.
>>>> I use to get my weekly meterials for my church
all in grade 2
>>>> braille. It was really great to finally be an
active participant in
>>>> the service instead just a pasive listener. To
be able to read
>>>> along with everyone else the verses and hyms
and classes lessons is
>>>> a great feeling you just can't discribe the
independence that it
>>>> givesyou. It's kind of like having access to
dvs you can finally
>>>> know what is going on when there is all of that
dead air. I was
>>>> able to read infront of the church and be
active in bible study and
>>>> even lead the groop all using braille. I do
use braille menus when
>>>> ever possible even if I don't really need it
just to let them see
>>>> that somone is acually using it. Braille has
given me a very full
>>>> life and I don't know whear my life would be
with out braille. I
>>>> feel that every blind person who is able to
read braille should
>>>> learn it. I do understand that there are blind
people who have
>>>> medical conditions that prevents them from
being able to read
>>>> braille. For them they have no choice but to
use audio but I do
>>>> have the choice I just don't like being limited
to just audio only
>>>> and not braille. You hate braille and I hate
audio. a good example
>>>> of when I wish that I had braille instead of a
file was when I
>>>> requested my local newspaper to be accessable.
my lions club
>>>> purchassed a sara reading machine for me there
was no braille manual
>>>> but there was a print manual. I had to go to
the help file on the
>>>> machine and try to find what I wanted. When I
called the paper
>>>> office they asked what files my machine could
read. If I had a
>>>> braille manual I could have just looked it up
while on the phone and
>>>> gave them the answer. I had to call back after
I went to the help
>>>> file and found it. This is very time concuming
I can look up
>>>> somthing much faster in braille than any other
format. I am not
>>>> saying that I can do it as quick as a sighted
person can with print
>>>> but for me it's the fastest way for me to get
the job done. When I
>>>> was a kid I attended the Michigan school the
blind in Lansing and we
>>>> had to learn braille and all of our books were
in braille. There
>>>> was no I don't want to learn it you had to. I
will say that I can
>>>> certainly listen much faster than I can read
but when it comes to
>>>> looking up somthing braille is faster hands
down. I have been blind
>>>> since birth and thats all I ever knew was
braille. It's like the
>>>> sighted grew up with print. I wanted to learn
the opticon at the
>>>> rehab center but they would not let me because
they said that I was
>>>> not fast enough. I felt that I was learning
and making progress and
>>>> I should had the right to continue but they
said no. If somone
>>>> really wants to learn a new skil then they
should beallowed to do
>>>> so. If I am determind to learn somthing that
then I will even
>>>> though it might take more time then the teacher
would like. I guess
>>>> that modavation means nothing. If somone
reallly wants to learn
>>>> braille so what ifit takes several month to do
so they should not be
>>>> told no you can't continue. If companies had
the equipment to
>>>> produce braille they could charge me for the
cost of the paper to
>>>> get braille manuals or catalogs.
>>>>> On 3/5/2020 9:26 PM, Dave wrote:
>>>>> Hello Brian,
>>>>> I have nothing against Braille other than
the hassle it is to create
>>>>> it, such as a Manual in Braille.
>>>>> I've been blind for a long time now, and
there were many times when I
>>>>> would have Kissed the Feet of anyone who
gave me a manual in Audio
>>>>> format. many times have I had to just Wing
it, learning by Guess and
>>>>> by Golly. Once Computers became a Tool for
the Blind, Guessing was
>>>>> not always the best thing to do, as
guessing wrong could ruin your
>>>>> day in a Big way. Still can.
>>>>> but, Brian, I have no Beef with Braille.
To produce it is just
>>>>> not an
>>>>> easy task. And I would guess that most
manufacturers of items for
>>>>> the blind, may not want to hire another
Staff member to do nothing
>>>>> but print out Manuals in Braille.
>>>>> Yes, it all sounds good, until the costs of
doing such a thing is
>>>>> considered.
>>>>> These days, I do expect a Manual at least
in a PDF format, if not an
>>>>> Audio file. And if I own my own Braille
Printer, I can then print
>>>>> out the PDF file.
>>>>> Although, I can't afford one of those
printers, so I do without.
>>>>> However, I could run the Audio file
through an Audio to Text
>>>>> converter, and then print that file out in
Braille.
>>>>> When I get nothing but an On Line Manual,
where I need to go On Line
>>>>> to read the thing. I am Thankful for at
least that much, but I
>>>>> always look to see if I can just download
the manual so I don't need
>>>>> to be going On Line so much.
>>>>> Call it my personal Taste.
>>>>> I would think most who are Blind have
learned over and over again to
>>>>> look for Work Arounds for doing many things
in Life.
>>>>> You like Braille, and while I do use it, I
Hate it. So a Braille
>>>>> Manual would be a waste of resources to
send me one.
>>>>> You Love it, and can use it well. So, when
the Company doesn't send
>>>>> a manual in Braille, but has sent you one
in PDF, or even Audio, if
>>>>> you want a manual in Braille, the Work
around is to convert that
>>>>> Audio or
>>>>> PDF file into Braille. And if you are
like me, and can't afford a
>>>>> Braille Printer, there are Services that
will take your Manual file
>>>>> and make you a manual in Braille.
>>>>> it may cost you a few dollars, which again
is all part of the Life of
>>>>> someone who is Blind. In the past, I have
hired Readers to read
>>>>> Manuals on Tape. Paid them $10 for every
hour of Recorded material.
>>>>> I've paid people to read my Mail. This was
before smart Phones had
>>>>> built in Cameras and OCR programs. I paid
them $10 an hour too. this
>>>>> was back in the 1980's and 90's.
>>>>> I haven't had to hire anyone for about 20
years now
>>>>> And Dare I bring up the Quality of
Manuals? So often, regardless of
>>>>> what Format it comes in, the information in
the thing is totally Nuts!
>>>>> It doesn't make Sense, and you can't tell
if it is a Translation of
>>>>> something in Chinese to English, or from
Chinese to Spanish and then
>>>>> Russian, and then to English etc.
>>>>> And some manuals that come in English are
so poorly written, lack
>>>>> helpful information and seem to be missing
a great deal of actual
>>>>> instructional information and are next to
useless in any format.
>>>>> Grumpy Dave
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana
boat!"
>
--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
|
