locked Re: Talking about quoting threads in the blindness community


the message quoted below mine may start a debate about equality, and other issues that may be divisive. I'll be watching the thread closely and I'll close the thread if it becomes too divisive. The chat list may be appropriate for such a discussion, which may start to range far beyond the province of this list.

I will say the following:
For those who are only on lists of almost exclusively blind users, they may feel no need to learn how to function efficiently on lists composed mostly of sighted users. That's fine. It is true that if a blind person wants to participate on a list of mostly sighted users, the thing to do is to learn how to function in that environment and culture. Different people have different cultures. What may be fine in blindness list culture might not be fine in sighted list culture. Both should be respected because both have developed to meet the convenience and needs of users who do things differently.

I think that screen-reader developers should make a point of developing commands that skip quoted material so a blind person can do what a sighted person does, that is, on a sighted list, skip quoted material and quickly and efficiently go to new content. So the problem is not only how blind people do things, it is what the technology we use allows us to do efficiently and what not.

In the speciffic case of people posting a line or two from a previous message above their reply, that isn't bottom posting and I see some people do this on various lists of primarily blind users.

As I said yesterday, it is important for blind people to think about context and look around. it is very easy to down arrow past this small amount of material, then use read to end.

It is an unfortunate aspect of a lot of computer training of blind people, but people often aren't taught to do this and think in those terms. They are taught to do things but not taught how to consider context and look around. this unnecessarily limits or causes problems for a lot of blind computer users.


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 9:34 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Talking about quoting threads in the blindness community

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:24 AM, Laz wrote:
it should be noted that Brian is fully sighted and does things as a sighted person does-
Indeed I am and do. I've never made a secret of the fact I'm fully sighted.

That doesn't make any of the rest of your message have the slightest bit of validity. I've been working with blind individuals for many, many years now, and am acutely aware of "how things work." But the fact is that "how things work" in any community often need to be changed, at least somewhat.

The obsession with only top-posting, and never including any reference material before starting one's own content, is one of those things. I hear, and frequently, "We/I want to be treated just like anyone else." Well, I'm not going to back down on my earlier assertion that this particular style of "quote response quote response" has been the norm in most email I've dealt with since the 1980s when one cannot simply presume that the reader will know exactly who and/or what is being replied to at the outset. It's long past time that the complaints about this cease, period. It's done, it's done commonly, you (any you) need to know how to deal with it. And most sighted people would not bother with including a hyphen, as I do, because they'd have no reason to believe it is necessary.

I do conform myself to the customs of any community in which I participate when possible and when those customs do not interfere with effective communication. If I had not left the tiny bit of context at the outset to which I was replying, this message would have been much less clear. It's that simply, so I'm not going to even try to please those that want me to write in a manner I know to be less clear, not more so.


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com

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