locked Re: Talking about quoting threads in the blindness community


Gene
 

I also disagree that you have to be blind to know what it is like to be blind. But what is causing discord on the list, I think, is the lecturing I know best and that's the last word, attitude of many of your messages Brian when it comes to what blind people should do and be. These things can be discussed and the same points can be made in ways that don't stir up this kind of dissention.

As I've ;pointed out, context is important, where is the blind person functioning? As I've pointed out, training is one reason such problems exist. On a list like this, in discussing questions, the point is not to change the world and rehabilitate and revolutionize how blind people who don't meet your standards and philosophy think about blindness or how they should do things. Encouraging people to do more is fine. Lecturing about what you won't tolerate and how people function as blind people accomplishes nothing and is divisive. Such points can be made with a far different tone.

I'm not questioning your motivation to be helpful and your commitment to equality for blind people. That doesn't mean you are implementing your commitment constructively.

It is my job to keep the list a friendly place and not to allow division and acrimony to occur on the list. of course, there will be some from time to time, but this thread has gotten out of hand. While I don't like to stop discussion, this thread has taken over the list. I am going to close it. If you want to reply, fine but within the next fifteen minutes, I will close it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:05 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Talking about quoting threads in the blindness community

So I need to be Blind before I could ever understand what it is like to
be blind?


This is just not true. I hear black people say this same sort of thing
when they are talking with someone they disagree with.


You could never understand what it's like to be Black, a woman, an
Indian, a Short person, an extremely tall person, a Bald person what
ever unless you are one of those people. Silly thinking in my opinion.


I am not a Great Cook. but, I can tell when a Cooked Meal is a Bad Meal.


Someone who has been around others, who happen to be blind ought to have
learned a few things about what someone blind has to do differently to
accomplish the same tasks as a sighted person.



I for one, find the statement that a person doesn't understand another
because they themselves are not like that other person, to be very wrong.


Some are better than others at putting themselves into the Shoes of
another person, so not all people may be able to understand the life of
someone blind, but there are those who can, and do all the time.



Grumpy Dave

On 8/27/2020 8:04 AM, Laz wrote:
Hmm. I post a message so that people have a fuller understanding of
where you're coming from and you point out how invalid my message is.

It's not an obsession to top post;it's what we as blind people find
easier for us. And please explain to us why the majority of blind
people on every list you join need to adopt your way of doing things
instead of you adapting to the way things are done on a blind mailing
list?

You have to walk the walk of being blind before you actually
understand what it's like; it's not something you jusdt pick up from
talking with some blind people, reading books, watching movies andTV
shows, etc. It doesn't just rub off of them and onto yourself. It's an
experience that until you go through it yourself you can't claim to
understand what it's like to be blind.

Please attempt to be civil in your replies and messages.

Laz

On 8/27/20, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:24 AM, Laz wrote:

it should be noted that Brian is fully sighted and does things as a
sighted person does
-
Indeed I am and do. I've never made a secret of the fact I'm fully
sighted.

That doesn't make any of the rest of your message have the slightest bit of
validity. I've been working with blind individuals for many, many years
now, and am acutely aware of "how things work." But the fact is that "how
things work" in any community often need to be changed, at least somewhat.

The obsession with only top-posting, and never including any reference
material before starting one's own content, is one of those things. I hear,
and frequently, "We/I want to be treated just like anyone else." Well, I'm
not going to back down on my earlier assertion that this particular style of
"quote response quote response" has been the norm in most email I've dealt
with since the 1980s when one cannot simply presume that the reader will
know exactly who and/or what is being replied to at the outset. It's long
past time that the complaints about this cease, period. It's done, it's
done commonly, you (any you) need to know how to deal with it. And most
sighted people would not bother with including a hyphen, as I do, because
they'd have no reason to believe it is necessary.

I do conform myself to the customs of any community in which I participate
when possible and when those customs do not interfere with effective
communication. If I had not left the tiny bit of context at the outset to
which I was replying, this message would have been much less clear. It's
that simply, so I'm not going to even try to please those that want me to
write in a manner I know to be less clear, not more so.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

*Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.*

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com



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