Re: Apple vs Windows?

enes sarıbaş

Yes Gene I agree.

For example, we disagree vastly on computer specifications that are necesary for regular users and pricepoints. However, I  have always kept criticisms at ideas, rather than people, and have not made personal comments.

On 11/20/2020 3:13 PM, Gene wrote:
I know you didn't like them but I didn't know what you thought now.

I don't mind someone making a strong case or having a strong opinion, if they don't resort to personal attacks.

-----Original Message----- From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Hi Gene,

I totally agree and BTW, I HATE! ribbons.  I learn to use them and hold
my nose and my stomach and get by.

On 11/20/2020 11:53 AM, Gene wrote:
Why are you always threatening to leave? Accusing someone of whining like a three year old is a violation of the lists rule against abusive messages and all other such lists I've been a member of have such rules as well.

You don't motivate people  to learn or to want to listen to what you are saying by insulting them.  Encouraging people to learn is one thing. Discussing the importance  or the benefits of learning ribbons is one thing. Saying that if you learn ribbons may help you have more confidence when learning something else that may appear difficult at first, is fine. Saying someone is whining like a three year old is not.

Blind people come from all sorts of backgrounds.  Some have good training, some don't.  Some have more aptitude for learning computer-related concepts, and some people find learning computer-related things more difficult.

Some people come from backgrounds where family and friends have taught them not to have confidence.  Others come from backgrounds where they have been taught to have confidence.

If this were a rehabilitation facility, putting pressure on blind people to learn certain skills would be necessary.  Some people would lack the confidence to learn without being put under some pressure to achieve so they see that they can.  But this and other such lists aren't rehabilitation institutions. They are lists for learning and help.  Lists where blind people from all sorts of backgrounds, at all sorts of levels of knowledge gather to give and get help.  Encouragement is fine, not insults.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 11:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Your post is verging on personally abusive and such posts will not be allowed if continued in any regular or recurring pattern.-
Gene, then I'll be happy to leave.  There seems to be this notion that all assistance has to "be nice."  Well, it doesn't, and very often, it shouldn't be.  We're dealing with adults here, and elsewhere, and I expect that adults know that effort will be necessary to learn any thing, and also know and accept the following:

It is impossible to help individuals who will not listen to advice unless they like that advice. Being a good assistant is not about making the person assisted "feel good," but about both asking the right (and sometimes hard) questions as well as giving the information necessary to achieve the desired result. Getting help is a two-way street, and those asking for help have work they must do, too, when asked. They also need to be ready to let go of what they'd like to do, and instead do what's called for.

It is not possible to help those who don't want to "do what's called for." And, for the record, I'm not trying to "encourage people" in every instance, or even many instances.  I'm trying to get them to actually do something they should have already been doing, and supplying the exact information they need to do it, which I did here.

Giving a well deserved wake-up call is not abusive, it's necessary in many cases.  This is one of them.

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