Re: Apple vs Windows?


enes sarıbaş
 

Gene,

This is why  there  are two concepts, accessibility and usability. Making something accessible doesn't necesarily mean it is usable. For example, if it takes 20 keystrokes to achieve an action as opposed to  two, that is technically accessible, but not very usable. Also, didn't know about groupings. That is a good thing to know.

On 11/21/2020 4:56 PM, Gene wrote:
That is factually incorrect.  it isn't a matter of opinion.  Accessibility doesn't mean convenient.  It means that things can be reached from the keyboard, that they speak, and can be activated from the keyboard.

And as far as reaching things from the keyboard conveniently in ribbons is concerned, in my tutorial, I said that people who intend to use a certain ribbon command often remember the keyboard sequence, just as they do in menus.  And if you know the commands control right arrow and control left arrow to move by grouping, you can often get to what you want if you don't know where it is with reasonable efficiency.

If, for example, I am looking for reply to all in the ribbon version of Windows live mail, if I move by grouping, I can use control right arrow to move until I get to the respond grouping. That is logically where reply commands would be.  I then tab to reply to all if that is what I want.  If I stop when I get to the grouping, I will probably be on reply.

A lot of ribbons have far more items in them than a single menu. Moving by groupings significantly helps with that problem because you don't have to tab or shift tab by every item in the menu.  You move through groupings until you get to the one that logically would be expected to have whatever command or adjustment you are looking for.

If you want to say that menus are more convenient, that's a matter I won't argue, it’s a personal preference and I don't have much opinion.  But when it comes to accessibility, ribbons are accessible.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

While ribbons are more accessible than people give them credit for,
there is absolutely no doubt that menu bars were vastly superior in
terms of accessibility. Ribbons seemed to be designed with the mouse in
mind.

On 11/19/2020 12:49 PM, goshawk on horseback wrote:
no, I haven't, and find them a complete pane, as I just can't figure out how to find things easily in the flaming things.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


Did you see my tutorial on ribbons?  I can't say how you will find them if you haven't seen it and now do, but in the majority of cases, people have a lot of probems witgh ribbons because they haven't been properly taught them or havenn't seen good instructional material, if any.  In essense, and it isn't quite this simple, but in essence, ribbons are like menus but differently organized.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: goshawk on horseback
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

would definitely agree about the time to figure out another OS.
I was recently looking to possibly get away from windows, as I am not happy
with the way it is going with all these ribbon menus and so on, so thought
about going the mac rout. only to find, that unlike windows, one can't even
do the basics with out knowing a good few 3 key plus combinations. so would
say that there is a lot more to have to spend time figuring out with the
mac, to do anything at all with it, where as windows is certainly a bit
easier from that point.

as for the mobile side of things, I use both iPhone and android, and would
say that once one is used to using a touch screen, that is a good half the
battle. over all, I probably prefer the iPhone, but do prefer the android as
a media device, as getting stuff on and off of it is a lot easier, as it can
be done with standard windows explorer, rather than the messing about with
iTunes, to get stuff on or off of the iPhone.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


I'm not sure there is an answer.  for the typical user, I doubt there is a meaningful advantage one way or the other.  I won't use Apple computers because I know Windows and it isn't worth my time and effort learning another operating system when I am already very profficient in one.

there may be some specific uses that are better dealt with in apple computers and some in Windows but I don't think, as I said, that for the typical user, it matters.

Then there is the cost of  Apple computers.  You pay a lot more.

I won't comment on mobile devices.  I haven't used smart mobile devices.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:08 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Hello,


For those who have both, or experience with both Systems, Which has the
better support when it comes to over all Accessibility?


Not trying to start World War 8, but I keep noticing lots of articles
and pod casts explaining Apple Accessibility features. this would cover
the Apple Mac, the I-Pad, and the I-Phone.


I don't own an Apple products, but am open to it.  With what seems to be
an increase in articles, over the last year or two, it just had me
wondering how good are the Apple products?


I find all the Operating Systems to be lacking when it comes to
Accessibility.  Seems like we move ahead one or two steps, then take a
step or two back.


I personally use Windows and Android.  have yet to own anything Apple.


Grumpy Dave





























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