Date   

Re: decided to buy a new desktop

enes sarıbaş
 

Again, 400 is an inadequate price point for a desktop. A good processor alone would  cost nearly that much. Not to mention motherboard, power supply. This would be solidly budget machine built with budget components.

On 6/20/2021 7:48 PM, Gene wrote:
I don’t have the technical knowledge to compare, but my impression has been that desktops, as you say, are cheaper for the same performance.  But if your ratio is more or less correct, then I would think that something like a 400 dollar desktop or a roughly six hundred dollar laptop would both serve typical users well. 
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 
Gene remember though the pricepoints for desktops and laptops are totally different. A 600-700 machine for a desktop is around 900 or more for a laptop to achieve a similar level of performance. And desktops are indeed more durable, even more so for quality components. You can literally swap out the motherboard and processor if it gets too slow.
On 6/20/2021 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:
If you are saying that if you have all sorts of power so your machine isn’t working as hard and will last longer, I consider that very questionable.  Perhaps with an underpowered machine the machine working harder and producing more heat might shorten its life, but I doubt that having too much power would cause a machine to last longer.  And then, there is the cost.  If I spend six or seven hundred dollars for a machine and I use it seven or eight years, then I buy another one, if I want the same rough amount of power, it will cost less, perhaps much less.  I may be paying for two machines of the power I will be using in order to try to make one machine last longer.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

Chris Nova <chris@...>
 

I just picked up an HP Desktop renewed from Amazon with a 3.2ghz processor, 16gb ram, 256GB ssd and 1`1TB spinning drive for $250.00.

 

It isn’t the fastest computer on the block but it works quite nicely.

 

Sent from a SuperNova!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I don’t have the technical knowledge to compare, but my impression has been that desktops, as you say, are cheaper for the same performance.  But if your ratio is more or less correct, then I would think that something like a 400 dollar desktop or a roughly six hundred dollar laptop would both serve typical users well. 

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:14 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Gene remember though the pricepoints for desktops and laptops are totally different. A 600-700 machine for a desktop is around 900 or more for a laptop to achieve a similar level of performance. And desktops are indeed more durable, even more so for quality components. You can literally swap out the motherboard and processor if it gets too slow.

On 6/20/2021 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

If you are saying that if you have all sorts of power so your machine isn’t working as hard and will last longer, I consider that very questionable.  Perhaps with an underpowered machine the machine working harder and producing more heat might shorten its life, but I doubt that having too much power would cause a machine to last longer.  And then, there is the cost.  If I spend six or seven hundred dollars for a machine and I use it seven or eight years, then I buy another one, if I want the same rough amount of power, it will cost less, perhaps much less.  I may be paying for two machines of the power I will be using in order to try to make one machine last longer.

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:19 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 




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Re: decided to buy a new desktop

Gene
 

I really doubt that a typical user needs to spend over 600 dollars for a laptop, and when you consider sales or manufacturer refurbished machines, that makes me even more skeptical.  Even if I am wrong about new laptops, I expect you can get a 700 dollar value or perhaps a little more by buying machines on good sale or a manufacturer refurbished machine. 
 
Also, this review is about fifteen months old.  You will see passages where it is stated that something isn’t as much the case any more.  If such things were changing then, there may be significantly more change now.
Here are two examples:
Regarding batteries:
Note that this is changing, though: in the past, we rarely found a laptop under $730 that offers more than six hours of real-world battery life. Now, some budget laptops can last you a full day.
And that was about sixteen months ago.
Regarding processors:
There was a time when budget laptops were universally equipped with low-cost Pentium and Celeron CPUs with at most dual-core designs. That’s not as true today, with many budget laptops utilizing Intel Core CPUs and AMD Ryzen 3000 quad, and even six-core CPUs in some cases. A modern 10th-gen Intel CPU, like that in the Acer Swift 3, for example, provides excellent performance across the board in both single-threaded and multi-threaded tasks.
Even so, you’re much more likely to get a faster quad-core (or even six- or eight-core) CPU by spending a few hundred dollars more. I’ll let those with much more technical knowledge than I have discuss this passage, but here again, if this was the case sixteen months ago, who knows what the case is now.
And regarding SSD drives, at what price point do they start in laptops?  it has been stated that most laptops have them now. 
 
 
Gene
 

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 

I am saying your price range of 600-700 for desktops is ok, but laptops the same level of quality on the unit goes for 800-100 or so as stated in the articles. As they are portable, you get less performance per dollar.

On 6/20/2021 7:45 PM, Gene wrote:
I’m not advocating using very slow computers. I don’t know about various processors and other technical matters in terms of acceptable speed.  But I’m writing about this because you may be giving people a really exaggerated sense of slowness at a price range where slowness wouldn’t be a problem.  What price computer are you talking about where a browser might take fifteen seconds to open?  Even on my laptop, eleven years old and moderately priced for its time, I can open browsers in something like three or four seconds.  I don’t have them go to a home page, which speeds up opening but if I had to wait fifteen secondes for a browser to open, I’d be very unhappy. 
 
And this is with a computer with a mechanical hard drive whereas it has been stated that most laptops now have SSD drives.  And considering that what you would get now for the same amount of money as eleven years ago would be faster and more powerful than what I got then, I think it is important to know what sorts of machines you are talking about, moderately priced machines, bottom of the line budget machines or something else? 
 
Gene
-----Original message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 

That isn't correct though. 99% of people will feel speed matters. There is a poiunt where things are overkill, but an i7 or unllocked processor isn't where it begins. Look at it this way. If you open and close browsers each time, and it takes 15 seconds instead of less than 1, and you did this several dozen times a day, that is minutes off of your life you could be doing something better than sitting in front of youtr screen. And your processor isn't overpowered iether. If I recall that is only 4 core, rather underpowered compared to today's processors. Amd laptop processors easily exceed skylake desktop processor performance these days, and 10 will make your system more responsive, especially since the processor security patches don't mess up your SSD performance as much.

On 6/20/2021 12:24 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

You have a point that Geen should if he has the money to do so, but consider Geen’s points if you will for a second.

What if Geen doesn’t have a job where that extra 30 seconds matters to him or his company?

What if  he has the money but would rather spend it on an experience doing something not tech related?

What if he doesn’t havce the money at all?

I’ve noticed that many people suggest what is good and isn’t, but not everybody wants to spend that money even if they have it.

There’s a point where things are indeed overkill.

Yes screen readers  do take up more resources but all facts do need to be considered.

I mean look at me, I have got all of this power and if nothing will ever use it why should I  ever bother again?

 

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

You do need and should get one if you have the disposable income to get one. There is definately many important performance improvements that have a quality of life impact. It makes all the difference in the world whetehr a file compresses iin 5 minutes versus 4 houtrrs, or whether word loads in 30 seconds or less than 1.

On 6/19/2021 5:08 PM, Gene wrote:

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

So just to add more to all of this talk,

$400 at a best buy is completely  different then custom built.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I don’t have the technical knowledge to compare, but my impression has been that desktops, as you say, are cheaper for the same performance.  But if your ratio is more or less correct, then I would think that something like a 400 dollar desktop or a roughly six hundred dollar laptop would both serve typical users well. 

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:14 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Gene remember though the pricepoints for desktops and laptops are totally different. A 600-700 machine for a desktop is around 900 or more for a laptop to achieve a similar level of performance. And desktops are indeed more durable, even more so for quality components. You can literally swap out the motherboard and processor if it gets too slow.

On 6/20/2021 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

If you are saying that if you have all sorts of power so your machine isn’t working as hard and will last longer, I consider that very questionable.  Perhaps with an underpowered machine the machine working harder and producing more heat might shorten its life, but I doubt that having too much power would cause a machine to last longer.  And then, there is the cost.  If I spend six or seven hundred dollars for a machine and I use it seven or eight years, then I buy another one, if I want the same rough amount of power, it will cost less, perhaps much less.  I may be paying for two machines of the power I will be using in order to try to make one machine last longer.

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:19 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Windows XP

Byron Stephens
 


I do all stuff like netflix on my hp laptop running windows ten.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP

How would you use it?   Would you use it for browsing and e-mail or for more things like streaming? 
 
I used to use mhy old XP machines on line after XP went out of support but I never did anything in which I provide personal information such as my birthday or other such information.  Even if I have no indication that I am infected, and the antivirus program I ran never indicated any problems, I don’t know enough about the vulnerabilities that were unpatched in XP to know how likely it might be that I might be infected with no signs.  Now that Windows 7 is out of support, I do the same thing. 
 
Fortunately, the way I use computers, I almost never do things that require divulging such information.  At some point, I expect to get a Windows 10 machine which I will feel reasonably safe using in that way. 
 
Others may want to comment on what I’ve said.  I think that if you just browse web sites and work with e-mail online, you probably won’t be placing yourself in danger. 
 
As far as streaming from web sites is concerned, I don’t know if you know this, but HTML5, now the dominant way of streaming doesn’t work properly even in browsers that support it in XP.  Streams are usually interrupted by all sorts of brief pauses and its very annoying to listen to anything.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP
 

I would use it online depending upon what type antivirus is available, as then I would not have to use my windows-7 computer as much since it is my main computer.

 

Veronica

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 3:15 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

You didn’t say you use your computer online or how.  You may not need antivirus protection, depending on how you use it.  But we would need to know more about that to have an opinion.

 

gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 3:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

Thank you Gene for your reply.  I do have AVG on the XP that I have, but I am not sure if it is running properly.  I mainly use that computer for listening to CDs as WMP works very well, as does the CD player.  I did not know that Microsoft Essentials was used as far back as windows XP.  Many years ago I used this particular computer when I worked as a medical transcriptionist, and my company placed AVG on the machine.

 

Veronica

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 2:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

Its an interesting question.  I’m curious if Microsoft is still making definitions available to Microsoft Security Essentials in XP.  it did for years after support stopped but I have no idea now.  and I have no idea if you can get the program that ran in XP.  But it was very accessible.  Perhaps others know more about that.

 

I use my XP machines for so little these days that I haven’t kept up with antivirus programs that are accessible and can be used.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 2:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

I have read that some of you on this list still have a Windows XP.  I would like to know what do you use for virus protection.

 

Veronica

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

Gene
 

I don’t have the technical knowledge to compare, but my impression has been that desktops, as you say, are cheaper for the same performance.  But if your ratio is more or less correct, then I would think that something like a 400 dollar desktop or a roughly six hundred dollar laptop would both serve typical users well. 
 
Gene

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 
Gene remember though the pricepoints for desktops and laptops are totally different. A 600-700 machine for a desktop is around 900 or more for a laptop to achieve a similar level of performance. And desktops are indeed more durable, even more so for quality components. You can literally swap out the motherboard and processor if it gets too slow.
On 6/20/2021 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:
If you are saying that if you have all sorts of power so your machine isn’t working as hard and will last longer, I consider that very questionable.  Perhaps with an underpowered machine the machine working harder and producing more heat might shorten its life, but I doubt that having too much power would cause a machine to last longer.  And then, there is the cost.  If I spend six or seven hundred dollars for a machine and I use it seven or eight years, then I buy another one, if I want the same rough amount of power, it will cost less, perhaps much less.  I may be paying for two machines of the power I will be using in order to try to make one machine last longer.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

enes sarıbaş
 

I am saying your price range of 600-700 for desktops is ok, but laptops the same level of quality on the unit goes for 800-100 or so as stated in the articles. As they are portable, you get less performance per dollar.

On 6/20/2021 7:45 PM, Gene wrote:
I’m not advocating using very slow computers. I don’t know about various processors and other technical matters in terms of acceptable speed.  But I’m writing about this because you may be giving people a really exaggerated sense of slowness at a price range where slowness wouldn’t be a problem.  What price computer are you talking about where a browser might take fifteen seconds to open?  Even on my laptop, eleven years old and moderately priced for its time, I can open browsers in something like three or four seconds.  I don’t have them go to a home page, which speeds up opening but if I had to wait fifteen secondes for a browser to open, I’d be very unhappy. 
 
And this is with a computer with a mechanical hard drive whereas it has been stated that most laptops now have SSD drives.  And considering that what you would get now for the same amount of money as eleven years ago would be faster and more powerful than what I got then, I think it is important to know what sorts of machines you are talking about, moderately priced machines, bottom of the line budget machines or something else? 
 
Gene
-----Original message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 

That isn't correct though. 99% of people will feel speed matters. There is a poiunt where things are overkill, but an i7 or unllocked processor isn't where it begins. Look at it this way. If you open and close browsers each time, and it takes 15 seconds instead of less than 1, and you did this several dozen times a day, that is minutes off of your life you could be doing something better than sitting in front of youtr screen. And your processor isn't overpowered iether. If I recall that is only 4 core, rather underpowered compared to today's processors. Amd laptop processors easily exceed skylake desktop processor performance these days, and 10 will make your system more responsive, especially since the processor security patches don't mess up your SSD performance as much.

On 6/20/2021 12:24 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

You have a point that Geen should if he has the money to do so, but consider Geen’s points if you will for a second.

What if Geen doesn’t have a job where that extra 30 seconds matters to him or his company?

What if  he has the money but would rather spend it on an experience doing something not tech related?

What if he doesn’t havce the money at all?

I’ve noticed that many people suggest what is good and isn’t, but not everybody wants to spend that money even if they have it.

There’s a point where things are indeed overkill.

Yes screen readers  do take up more resources but all facts do need to be considered.

I mean look at me, I have got all of this power and if nothing will ever use it why should I  ever bother again?

 

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

You do need and should get one if you have the disposable income to get one. There is definately many important performance improvements that have a quality of life impact. It makes all the difference in the world whetehr a file compresses iin 5 minutes versus 4 houtrrs, or whether word loads in 30 seconds or less than 1.

On 6/19/2021 5:08 PM, Gene wrote:

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

Gene
 

I’m not advocating using very slow computers. I don’t know about various processors and other technical matters in terms of acceptable speed.  But I’m writing about this because you may be giving people a really exaggerated sense of slowness at a price range where slowness wouldn’t be a problem.  What price computer are you talking about where a browser might take fifteen seconds to open?  Even on my laptop, eleven years old and moderately priced for its time, I can open browsers in something like three or four seconds.  I don’t have them go to a home page, which speeds up opening but if I had to wait fifteen secondes for a browser to open, I’d be very unhappy. 
 
And this is with a computer with a mechanical hard drive whereas it has been stated that most laptops now have SSD drives.  And considering that what you would get now for the same amount of money as eleven years ago would be faster and more powerful than what I got then, I think it is important to know what sorts of machines you are talking about, moderately priced machines, bottom of the line budget machines or something else? 
 
Gene

-----Original message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop
 

That isn't correct though. 99% of people will feel speed matters. There is a poiunt where things are overkill, but an i7 or unllocked processor isn't where it begins. Look at it this way. If you open and close browsers each time, and it takes 15 seconds instead of less than 1, and you did this several dozen times a day, that is minutes off of your life you could be doing something better than sitting in front of youtr screen. And your processor isn't overpowered iether. If I recall that is only 4 core, rather underpowered compared to today's processors. Amd laptop processors easily exceed skylake desktop processor performance these days, and 10 will make your system more responsive, especially since the processor security patches don't mess up your SSD performance as much.

On 6/20/2021 12:24 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

You have a point that Geen should if he has the money to do so, but consider Geen’s points if you will for a second.

What if Geen doesn’t have a job where that extra 30 seconds matters to him or his company?

What if  he has the money but would rather spend it on an experience doing something not tech related?

What if he doesn’t havce the money at all?

I’ve noticed that many people suggest what is good and isn’t, but not everybody wants to spend that money even if they have it.

There’s a point where things are indeed overkill.

Yes screen readers  do take up more resources but all facts do need to be considered.

I mean look at me, I have got all of this power and if nothing will ever use it why should I  ever bother again?

 

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

You do need and should get one if you have the disposable income to get one. There is definately many important performance improvements that have a quality of life impact. It makes all the difference in the world whetehr a file compresses iin 5 minutes versus 4 houtrrs, or whether word loads in 30 seconds or less than 1.

On 6/19/2021 5:08 PM, Gene wrote:

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

The Core I7 with the 0 10  cores I was talking about on my desktop is actually a Broadwell chip, not skylake.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I think though not upgrading to the latest and greatest windows would hobble the processor. Skylake was released when win10 was a thing, and if I recall it has features only natively supported on 10.

On 6/20/2021 7:28 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ll find out someday soon!

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:13 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well other apps will though. Browsers certainly do, windows presumably does, and several other things. So it isn't for nothing.

On 6/20/2021 12:19 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

 He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

If I needed a box right now I’d go with AMD.

Since now, they’re eating intel for lunch.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not to mention an r7/I7.  It is possible to find one less than a thousand dollars. AMD adds two additional cores for the r7, more cache and a higher boost clock.

On 6/20/2021 12:25 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

I agree with you on this completely

I5, or  rizzen 5, 8GB RAM and 256 SSD.

For most that would be plenty enough.

If they can save up for more, then 16GB of RAM anmd 512SSD would be the next  thing I’d shoot for.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:40 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

In that case, if buying a computer wasn't ergent, I would save up more money to buy a better unit. I would never go below an i5, 8 gb of ram, and 256 gb SSD. That should be absolutely the barebones minimum one should go down to.

On 6/19/2021 5:33 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

So several things to think about.

For those that are suggesting spending more money is better, what if the person doesn’t have it?

What if they only have a few  hundred dollars to spend now and then possibly again in a few y years or live on fixed income?

This could be a lot of people.

Maybe some of you would not buy refurb units, but if you had only $500 right now… and you wanted to get some of the specs we’re suggesting, then the only way to get it that cheap is to not buy new.

Especially true when it comes to laptops.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 6:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

You realize this thread is about desktops though…

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

also this

https://www.ebuyer.com/blog/2019/07/laptops-why-you-need-to-spend-more-on-one/

 

On 6/20/2021 12:24 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

You have a point that Geen should if he has the money to do so, but consider Geen’s points if you will for a second.

What if Geen doesn’t have a job where that extra 30 seconds matters to him or his company?

What if  he has the money but would rather spend it on an experience doing something not tech related?

What if he doesn’t havce the money at all?

I’ve noticed that many people suggest what is good and isn’t, but not everybody wants to spend that money even if they have it.

There’s a point where things are indeed overkill.

Yes screen readers  do take up more resources but all facts do need to be considered.

I mean look at me, I have got all of this power and if nothing will ever use it why should I  ever bother again?

 

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

You do need and should get one if you have the disposable income to get one. There is definately many important performance improvements that have a quality of life impact. It makes all the difference in the world whetehr a file compresses iin 5 minutes versus 4 houtrrs, or whether word loads in 30 seconds or less than 1.

On 6/19/2021 5:08 PM, Gene wrote:

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

Ah yes my laptop that I would use if I was going out more is a Lenovo X1 Carbon.

6th Gen Skylake processor, 16GB of ram, 512GB M.2 SSD, integrated graphics. This  sucker flies.

I got it a few years back.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:22 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Also see this article that summarizes this nicely.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/dont-be-so-cheap-five-reasons-you-should-spend-more-on-your-next-laptop/

On 6/20/2021 12:24 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

You have a point that Geen should if he has the money to do so, but consider Geen’s points if you will for a second.

What if Geen doesn’t have a job where that extra 30 seconds matters to him or his company?

What if  he has the money but would rather spend it on an experience doing something not tech related?

What if he doesn’t havce the money at all?

I’ve noticed that many people suggest what is good and isn’t, but not everybody wants to spend that money even if they have it.

There’s a point where things are indeed overkill.

Yes screen readers  do take up more resources but all facts do need to be considered.

I mean look at me, I have got all of this power and if nothing will ever use it why should I  ever bother again?

 

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

You do need and should get one if you have the disposable income to get one. There is definately many important performance improvements that have a quality of life impact. It makes all the difference in the world whetehr a file compresses iin 5 minutes versus 4 houtrrs, or whether word loads in 30 seconds or less than 1.

On 6/19/2021 5:08 PM, Gene wrote:

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

enes sarıbaş
 

Well I guess the next thing would be to flash bios and try out win10 and win11.

On 6/20/2021 7:31 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

No, my processor is 10 core plus 10 hyperthreading.

I’ve never gotten it to run past 1% usage lol.

I think at one point I saw 9%, but something was acting up I think a browser was frozen.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

That isn't correct though. 99% of people will feel speed matters. There is a poiunt where things are overkill, but an i7 or unllocked processor isn't where it begins. Look at it this way. If you open and close browsers each time, and it takes 15 seconds instead of less than 1, and you did this several dozen times a day, that is minutes off of your life you could be doing something better than sitting in front of youtr screen. And your processor isn't overpowered iether. If I recall that is only 4 core, rather underpowered compared to today's processors. Amd laptop processors easily exceed skylake desktop processor performance these days, and 10 will make your system more responsive, especially since the processor security patches don't mess up your SSD performance as much.

On 6/20/2021 12:24 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

You have a point that Geen should if he has the money to do so, but consider Geen’s points if you will for a second.

What if Geen doesn’t have a job where that extra 30 seconds matters to him or his company?

What if  he has the money but would rather spend it on an experience doing something not tech related?

What if he doesn’t havce the money at all?

I’ve noticed that many people suggest what is good and isn’t, but not everybody wants to spend that money even if they have it.

There’s a point where things are indeed overkill.

Yes screen readers  do take up more resources but all facts do need to be considered.

I mean look at me, I have got all of this power and if nothing will ever use it why should I  ever bother again?

 

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

You do need and should get one if you have the disposable income to get one. There is definately many important performance improvements that have a quality of life impact. It makes all the difference in the world whetehr a file compresses iin 5 minutes versus 4 houtrrs, or whether word loads in 30 seconds or less than 1.

On 6/19/2021 5:08 PM, Gene wrote:

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

enes sarıbaş
 

a good example of that infact is the am4 socket for AMD. They have been using it since 2017.

On 6/20/2021 7:28 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Sometimes you can replae the processor in the motherboard if it has the same sockit

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Gene remember though the pricepoints for desktops and laptops are totally different. A 600-700 machine for a desktop is around 900 or more for a laptop to achieve a similar level of performance. And desktops are indeed more durable, even more so for quality components. You can literally swap out the motherboard and processor if it gets too slow.

On 6/20/2021 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

If you are saying that if you have all sorts of power so your machine isn’t working as hard and will last longer, I consider that very questionable.  Perhaps with an underpowered machine the machine working harder and producing more heat might shorten its life, but I doubt that having too much power would cause a machine to last longer.  And then, there is the cost.  If I spend six or seven hundred dollars for a machine and I use it seven or eight years, then I buy another one, if I want the same rough amount of power, it will cost less, perhaps much less.  I may be paying for two machines of the power I will be using in order to try to make one machine last longer.

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:19 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

No, my processor is 10 core plus 10 hyperthreading.

I’ve never gotten it to run past 1% usage lol.

I think at one point I saw 9%, but something was acting up I think a browser was frozen.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

That isn't correct though. 99% of people will feel speed matters. There is a poiunt where things are overkill, but an i7 or unllocked processor isn't where it begins. Look at it this way. If you open and close browsers each time, and it takes 15 seconds instead of less than 1, and you did this several dozen times a day, that is minutes off of your life you could be doing something better than sitting in front of youtr screen. And your processor isn't overpowered iether. If I recall that is only 4 core, rather underpowered compared to today's processors. Amd laptop processors easily exceed skylake desktop processor performance these days, and 10 will make your system more responsive, especially since the processor security patches don't mess up your SSD performance as much.

On 6/20/2021 12:24 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

You have a point that Geen should if he has the money to do so, but consider Geen’s points if you will for a second.

What if Geen doesn’t have a job where that extra 30 seconds matters to him or his company?

What if  he has the money but would rather spend it on an experience doing something not tech related?

What if he doesn’t havce the money at all?

I’ve noticed that many people suggest what is good and isn’t, but not everybody wants to spend that money even if they have it.

There’s a point where things are indeed overkill.

Yes screen readers  do take up more resources but all facts do need to be considered.

I mean look at me, I have got all of this power and if nothing will ever use it why should I  ever bother again?

 

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

You do need and should get one if you have the disposable income to get one. There is definately many important performance improvements that have a quality of life impact. It makes all the difference in the world whetehr a file compresses iin 5 minutes versus 4 houtrrs, or whether word loads in 30 seconds or less than 1.

On 6/19/2021 5:08 PM, Gene wrote:

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

enes sarıbaş
 

I think though not upgrading to the latest and greatest windows would hobble the processor. Skylake was released when win10 was a thing, and if I recall it has features only natively supported on 10.

On 6/20/2021 7:28 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ll find out someday soon!

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:13 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well other apps will though. Browsers certainly do, windows presumably does, and several other things. So it isn't for nothing.

On 6/20/2021 12:19 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

 He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

enes sarıbaş
 

not to mention an r7/I7.  It is possible to find one less than a thousand dollars. AMD adds two additional cores for the r7, more cache and a higher boost clock.

On 6/20/2021 12:25 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

I agree with you on this completely

I5, or  rizzen 5, 8GB RAM and 256 SSD.

For most that would be plenty enough.

If they can save up for more, then 16GB of RAM anmd 512SSD would be the next  thing I’d shoot for.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:40 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

In that case, if buying a computer wasn't ergent, I would save up more money to buy a better unit. I would never go below an i5, 8 gb of ram, and 256 gb SSD. That should be absolutely the barebones minimum one should go down to.

On 6/19/2021 5:33 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

So several things to think about.

For those that are suggesting spending more money is better, what if the person doesn’t have it?

What if they only have a few  hundred dollars to spend now and then possibly again in a few y years or live on fixed income?

This could be a lot of people.

Maybe some of you would not buy refurb units, but if you had only $500 right now… and you wanted to get some of the specs we’re suggesting, then the only way to get it that cheap is to not buy new.

Especially true when it comes to laptops.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 6:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I’m not sure what you are saying.  I’m saying that I had no problem with heat using old machines going back to the nineties.  And I don’t know what you mean by the most basic of computer tasks.  I used machines from the early 2000’s to browse, stream, including from Youtube, record audio, word process, and copy backups to external drives.  My laptop is about eleven years old.  Even if my apartment is warm, eighty or eighty-five degrees, I have absolutely no trouble with heat doing the things I discuss, nor do I have problems with the other much older machines I have.  My fans do not race. 

 

I hope others enter into this conversation.  You just do not need a nine-hundred dollar machine if you are a typical computer user, though you seem, as I understand what you are saying, to be advocating that.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

 

 

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Likewise, your experiences, or lack there of of heat doesn't represent everyone with older machines. It is well established that very old processors are underpowered for anything but the most basic of computing tasks, and generate tremendous amounts of heat. You would need to compare it to a brand new high powered laptop to really feel the difference.

On 6/19/2021 1:35 PM, Gene wrote:

I have never had a problem with heat and, though I don’t discount your experience, it cannot be assumed to be representative.  My laptop, an eleven year old machine, seldom has its fan run at anything but a slow speed and that is when I do most things I do, including streaming videos from Youtube. 

 

I have another old, by today’s standards very underpowered machine that runs XP.  I never had a heat problem and I would use it for Youtube.  I should also add that I have another old machine that runs XP and it too never had such a problem.  One person’s experience is not valid for generalization when discussing computer problems and performance.

 

If other people report similar experiences, I would take that into account but nothing in my experience supports your experience.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Windows XP

Gene
 

How would you use it?   Would you use it for browsing and e-mail or for more things like streaming? 
 
I used to use mhy old XP machines on line after XP went out of support but I never did anything in which I provide personal information such as my birthday or other such information.  Even if I have no indication that I am infected, and the antivirus program I ran never indicated any problems, I don’t know enough about the vulnerabilities that were unpatched in XP to know how likely it might be that I might be infected with no signs.  Now that Windows 7 is out of support, I do the same thing. 
 
Fortunately, the way I use computers, I almost never do things that require divulging such information.  At some point, I expect to get a Windows 10 machine which I will feel reasonably safe using in that way. 
 
Others may want to comment on what I’ve said.  I think that if you just browse web sites and work with e-mail online, you probably won’t be placing yourself in danger. 
 
As far as streaming from web sites is concerned, I don’t know if you know this, but HTML5, now the dominant way of streaming doesn’t work properly even in browsers that support it in XP.  Streams are usually interrupted by all sorts of brief pauses and its very annoying to listen to anything.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP
 

I would use it online depending upon what type antivirus is available, as then I would not have to use my windows-7 computer as much since it is my main computer.

 

Veronica

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 3:15 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

You didn’t say you use your computer online or how.  You may not need antivirus protection, depending on how you use it.  But we would need to know more about that to have an opinion.

 

gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 3:04 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

Thank you Gene for your reply.  I do have AVG on the XP that I have, but I am not sure if it is running properly.  I mainly use that computer for listening to CDs as WMP works very well, as does the CD player.  I did not know that Microsoft Essentials was used as far back as windows XP.  Many years ago I used this particular computer when I worked as a medical transcriptionist, and my company placed AVG on the machine.

 

Veronica

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 2:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

Its an interesting question.  I’m curious if Microsoft is still making definitions available to Microsoft Security Essentials in XP.  it did for years after support stopped but I have no idea now.  and I have no idea if you can get the program that ran in XP.  But it was very accessible.  Perhaps others know more about that.

 

I use my XP machines for so little these days that I haven’t kept up with antivirus programs that are accessible and can be used.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 2:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] Windows XP

 

I have read that some of you on this list still have a Windows XP.  I would like to know what do you use for virus protection.

 

Veronica

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

Sometimes you can replae the processor in the motherboard if it has the same sockit

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Gene remember though the pricepoints for desktops and laptops are totally different. A 600-700 machine for a desktop is around 900 or more for a laptop to achieve a similar level of performance. And desktops are indeed more durable, even more so for quality components. You can literally swap out the motherboard and processor if it gets too slow.

On 6/20/2021 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

If you are saying that if you have all sorts of power so your machine isn’t working as hard and will last longer, I consider that very questionable.  Perhaps with an underpowered machine the machine working harder and producing more heat might shorten its life, but I doubt that having too much power would cause a machine to last longer.  And then, there is the cost.  If I spend six or seven hundred dollars for a machine and I use it seven or eight years, then I buy another one, if I want the same rough amount of power, it will cost less, perhaps much less.  I may be paying for two machines of the power I will be using in order to try to make one machine last longer.

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:19 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: decided to buy a new desktop

John Holcomb II
 

I’ll find out someday soon!

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:13 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well other apps will though. Browsers certainly do, windows presumably does, and several other things. So it isn't for nothing.

On 6/20/2021 12:19 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Why not?

I have al of this power. What is the point if nothing will use it ?

I’d like to think because I have all of this power and can do all of these cores and  threading, that it’d run longer with things taking advantage of this.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Hi,

That is still a good machine I would think. A friend has a similar processor, the i7 6700 K if I remember right, and he said it is still mostly fast. And no unfortunately screen readers don't take advantage of multicore, and probably never will according to discussion on the NVDA group.

On 6/19/2021 4:43 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Yeah… When I bought this in 2017 AMD wasn’t in the game yet or I wouldn’t have bought this.

Do  our screen readers and Windows take advantage of multi-core processors yet I wonder?

Mine is overkill I know, but I’ll probably keep it until it becomes too slow.

Whitebox

3.75 gigahertz Intel Core i7-6950X

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. SABERTOOTH X99 Rev 1.xx

64GB DDR4 ram.

I forget which ram I put in here.

I plan to put an M.2 SSD in here next and upgrade to I guess it’ll be Windows 11? As right now I’m on a spinning Western Digital Red on Windows 7.

This will be much better when I put an M.2 in here I’m sure!

The graphics is a Nvidia GForce 210

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

not only that, but heat generation too. My old Toshiba on dual core Haswell i5 would have fans scream even when watching youtube. But my Ryzen fifth gen is a much higher wattage part, but barely produces any heat, even under full load it isn't very bad. And more apps take advantage of multicore. Browsers for one, file encoders and compression tools, OCR software. But the number of things that take advantage will only grow as time passes. And right now fifth gen Ryzen surpasses Intel in even  in single core, and Intel is severely behind, on the desktop they backported a 10 nm  process to 14 nm, making rocket lake, dropping the number of cores on the 1900K by 2 to 8 from the 10 on the 10900K. If you read rocket lake i7 reviews, they are easily the worst processor reviews I have read ever.

On 6/19/2021 10:52 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

Intel is still on the 14NM  process.

This moving to a smaller die size will help with power savings. AMD is killing it right now.

I’m not sure how many apps take advantage of multi-core though?

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

They also use newer processor technology, 7 nanometer vs 14 nanometer for Intel, don't have as many hardware side channel vulnerabilities, and also generate less heat for the same performance thanks to the newer processor technologies. They have substantially better multicore core performance as well.

On 6/18/2021 4:57 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

M.2 SSDs will be on anything but the bottom of the crop when it comes to desktops.

Same with hyper threading.

But here’s another thought to consider.

For single core performance, AMD is  worth a look. They have something similar to hyper threading which I forget what its called now.

John

 

 He’s right and I forgot about that.

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

I am not a tech but I doubt you have to worry about the case.  You seem to be worried that the problems you have with your computer are caused by heat.  there is no reason for that assumption. 

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use your computer?  I know little about M2 slots but whether you have one may not matter to any extent depending on how you intend to use it.  My impression is that they are common on computers now but I am just stating an impression and I hope others discuss the question. 

 

I would imagine that other things you are worried about, hyperthreading, for example, are so standard in machines that are not bottom of the line that you probably don’t have to worry about whether a machine uyou buy has that ability.  I would imagine it is present in any machine that isn’t a bottom of the line budget machine.

 

As has been asked, how do you intend to use the machine?  I’ll ask further if you anticipate your uses changing to any significant extent over time.  After we know how you intend to use your machine, people can discuss such matters as price, power of machine, etc.  I think those questions of use are by far the most important in people advising you.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 3:59 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] decided to buy a new desktop

 

Well, I guess I am coming in to this decade I am finally going to upgrade my desktop after 7 or 8 years.  So do I have to tell them I want an  m2 slot or is there another term?  I ran the Belarc adviser and it said I did not have  hiper threaded with my cores. I read up that the hiper threaded makes them faster for the PC.  Everything else was intergraded on the mother board, sound, internet card, graphics card and  memory. It was all intel integrated. The first thing to go out on this machine was the sound about 1.5 years ago. I am wired in to the modem as the wireless is not that great .I have to use a USB cord to get my printer to print too. So I am not sure what went out that these do not work anymore unless I do it threw a cable. I know the Bluetooth still works as my keyboard and mouse still work with the dongle. Monitor port does not work but I just switched to a  USB monitor. I was just wondering if I can get a tower  casing that vents heat more evenly. Or are the tower cases different these days. Thanks everybody.

Heather

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

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