Date   

Re: windows 10 with jaws

Gene
 

There are no ribbons in Thunderbird.  You may not have the same results, but I use the ribbon version of Windows Live Mail with Windows 7 because it opens messages much faster than Thunderbird does on my machine.  I don’t know if or how well the menu version works in Windows 10 so I can’t comment on whether you can continue to use it.  From the small numbers of comments I’ve seen, it appears the ribbon version works well.
 
Thunderbird has a list view of messages, just as e-mail programs do in general.  Ribbons have nothing to do with such things.  Ribbons are used instead of menus where menus would have previously been used. 
 
Where some things are may be different in ribbons but each ribbon program has one menu where some commonly used functions are.  But the program remains largely the same, unless developers make changes to a lot of other aspects of the program.
 
If you try something and have problems, it is far better to ask on list if you want to continue to evaluate and use the program than just stop using it.
 
In Thunderbird, when the program opens, you aren’t placed in the list view.  A good way to get to the list view is to use f6. Iff you [press it once, you will be in the folders treeview and I believe that is true no matter how the program is configured.  If you press it twice, you will be in the list view.
Then, use the list as usual. 
 
That’s an example of why a group like this should be consulted in such a case.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
 
Gene, thank you for the tutorial and your feedback. I know that to me the list views are important, and one time when I tried upgrading to 10 I honestly couldn't figure out where I was. It looked so different and I truly was lost.
 
I feel this way with emails like Outlook and Thunderbird. I really want to learn Thunderbird, but am still using Windows Live Mail older version because it's so straightforward and had a list view like Outlook Express. Thunderbird's interface is confusing because I can't find list views where you can scroll through messages. It seems to put me in a place that isn't the in box and it may be a ribbon issue. So the tutorial may help both of us understand something we haven't been able to grasp yet.
 
 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
 
Regarding ribbons, you and your friend may not find them difficult to understand and use when you understand them and know a few commands.  Would you understand menus and dialogs with no instruction?  .  I would not disable them until you find out what and if you lose access to features you might want.
 
I created a ribbons tutorial which I’ll send under my signature. 
 
The reason you can’t get list views is not a Windows     10 problem.  The same settings have been in Windows to display things like files and folders in listviews since  Windows 95. 
 
I’ll let others explain how you get to the settings because I don’t have  Windows 10 and how you get to them may be different.  It has been my observation that, when people use Windows 10, if they use standard programs, they have little trouble moving to Windows 10.  Others will have to comment more on that because my observations are based on two friends who have some difficulty adapting to new interfaces, so I conclude that there isn’t much new you have to know if you use standard applications.  That doesn’t mean there isn’t anything you may wish to know but I don’t think there is much you have to know.  If you know, Windows, though each version of Windows has differences, you know the basics of Windows.
 
If you use Windows 10 apps, then I can’t discuss that.  And there are new settings and services in Windows 10 and there may be things you want to disable to remove clutter or make things such as the start menu search show the results you want without others, but I’ll let others discuss that. 
I don’t know that you need a tutorial or if you want one, if you know something like Windows 7 well, if there is a good tutorial for those moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10, that might serve you better than a general Windows 10 tutorial that might sspend all sorts of time teaching you things you already know.
 
Gene
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
Ribbons are ribbons wherever you find them.  This tutorial teaches you how to move through them and see or skip what you want.  certain ways of movement may cause you to miss things and not have any idea you are.  
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If the strucgture moves up and down on the screen, right arrowing will open more options.  That's why if one doesn't work, try the other.  If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.  I will say regarding the dependence on one screen-reader iswsue that tutorials for programs that use ribbons done for blind people generally don't use the JAWS virtual ribbons and you will be greatly limiting yourself in learning such programs with tutorials if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons.  The JAWS virtual ribbons are off by default so you needn't do anything if you haven't turned them on. 
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 and higher has the ribbon version of Wordpad on their machine. 
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear the item you are on and the short cut information to open or cause that item to take an action.  This iss the same behavior as in any standard menu. 
 
I told you one of the long ways to open the menu.  The short cut way is alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu  with alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menu and a then opens save as.  In other words, alt f was chosen as the short cut way to open the single menu in ribbon programs because it allowed the preservation of commands people have used for decades, such as alt f, a, for save as. 
 
Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
You can switch between moving by groups and individual items as often as you want.  You can move to a group, look through the items, then continue to move by group, switching to individual items again when you find a group you want to move through by individual items. 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  


Re: windows 10 with jaws

joanne
 

Gene, thank you for the tutorial and your feedback. I know that to me the list views are important, and one time when I tried upgrading to 10 I honestly couldn't figure out where I was. It looked so different and I truly was lost.
 
I feel this way with emails like Outlook and Thunderbird. I really want to learn Thunderbird, but am still using Windows Live Mail older version because it's so straightforward and had a list view like Outlook Express. Thunderbird's interface is confusing because I can't find list views where you can scroll through messages. It seems to put me in a place that isn't the in box and it may be a ribbon issue. So the tutorial may help both of us understand something we haven't been able to grasp yet.
 
 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

Regarding ribbons, you and your friend may not find them difficult to understand and use when you understand them and know a few commands.  Would you understand menus and dialogs with no instruction?  .  I would not disable them until you find out what and if you lose access to features you might want.
 
I created a ribbons tutorial which I’ll send under my signature. 
 
The reason you can’t get list views is not a Windows     10 problem.  The same settings have been in Windows to display things like files and folders in listviews since  Windows 95. 
 
I’ll let others explain how you get to the settings because I don’t have  Windows 10 and how you get to them may be different.  It has been my observation that, when people use Windows 10, if they use standard programs, they have little trouble moving to Windows 10.  Others will have to comment more on that because my observations are based on two friends who have some difficulty adapting to new interfaces, so I conclude that there isn’t much new you have to know if you use standard applications.  That doesn’t mean there isn’t anything you may wish to know but I don’t think there is much you have to know.  If you know, Windows, though each version of Windows has differences, you know the basics of Windows.
 
If you use Windows 10 apps, then I can’t discuss that.  And there are new settings and services in Windows 10 and there may be things you want to disable to remove clutter or make things such as the start menu search show the results you want without others, but I’ll let others discuss that. 
I don’t know that you need a tutorial or if you want one, if you know something like Windows 7 well, if there is a good tutorial for those moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10, that might serve you better than a general Windows 10 tutorial that might sspend all sorts of time teaching you things you already know.
 
Gene
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
Ribbons are ribbons wherever you find them.  This tutorial teaches you how to move through them and see or skip what you want.  certain ways of movement may cause you to miss things and not have any idea you are.  
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If the strucgture moves up and down on the screen, right arrowing will open more options.  That's why if one doesn't work, try the other.  If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.  I will say regarding the dependence on one screen-reader iswsue that tutorials for programs that use ribbons done for blind people generally don't use the JAWS virtual ribbons and you will be greatly limiting yourself in learning such programs with tutorials if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons.  The JAWS virtual ribbons are off by default so you needn't do anything if you haven't turned them on. 
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 and higher has the ribbon version of Wordpad on their machine. 
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear the item you are on and the short cut information to open or cause that item to take an action.  This iss the same behavior as in any standard menu. 
 
I told you one of the long ways to open the menu.  The short cut way is alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu  with alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menu and a then opens save as.  In other words, alt f was chosen as the short cut way to open the single menu in ribbon programs because it allowed the preservation of commands people have used for decades, such as alt f, a, for save as. 
 
Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
You can switch between moving by groups and individual items as often as you want.  You can move to a group, look through the items, then continue to move by group, switching to individual items again when you find a group you want to move through by individual items. 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  


Re: looking for help with making windows 10 easier to use with jaws

Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

My first suggestion is that you not look for something that is going to emulate Windows7. This is because Windows10 has the same features as did 7, except that they are in different places. The desktop is in the same place. The start menu is a bit different, but you can stick to the desktop and all your commands from 7 will work. I suggest that you use Google Chrome or Firefox because MSIE is no longer being supported.

As for making Jaws work better with Windows10, I strongly suggest that instead of complaining about how different Windows10 is, that you go to the help menu in Jaws which is in the Jaws screen, and you start exploring the wealth of tutorials which are available there as well as on the Freedom Scientific site.

Jaws has some proprietary commands which are supposed to make Windows10 easier to use, but frankly, learning Windows10 is a much better option.

You two are actually in a good position when it comes to the learning curve. Why? Because you already know what you want the computer to do. Create a cheat-sheet of commands and keep going! Of course you won't remember any or at least not all of the new commands, that is why a cheat-sheet is necessary. Once you understand computer concepts, you're good to go.

Now, if you or your friend are of a mind to hire somebody to help you make sense of Windows10, take a look at the website below. Portal Tutoring may be an answer you want to consider. Otherwise, take a long look at Jaws and its tutorials. Oh, you want to have at least Jaws 18. Anything older won't give you the results you want. Unfortunately, tech moves onward inexorably. You've got to keep up. I suggest you move to Jaws Home Edition which is billed like Office365. That will give you the latest version of Jaws for a somewhat reasonable price.

Here is a link that may get you started.

https://doccenter.freedomscientific.com/doccenter/doccenter/rs25c51746a0cc/2015-10-28_windows10-basics/02_Windows10Basics.htm#:~:text=Press%20WINDOWS%20Key%2BI.,ARROW%20to%20move%20to%20Start.&text=I%20will%20press%20TAB%20to,press%20SPACEBAR%20to%20check%20it.


Ann P.


Original message:

I thought someone may have put out a tutorial, and I know someone who unfortunately had to get a windows 10 computer and he's pretty frustrated with its layout and everything. Are there programs that will make the layout more like windows 7? I know I may have to learn this too for when this computer stops working. But we're hoping that with good tutoring and suggestions from the email groups we can make it more doable.
Thanks.
--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


is there a way to make a program install completely instead of stopping at some point?

joanne
 

I have had trouble with a couple of downloads from Replay, but I've occasionally seen this with other programs I wanted to install. The installation just seems to stop at a certain spot or percent during install and I don't know if there may be programs within the program that could be causing this or is there another place on my program that could be tweaked, using jaws, to make it finish installing?
 
Thanks.


Re: windows 10 with jaws

Gene
 

Regarding ribbons, you and your friend may not find them difficult to understand and use when you understand them and know a few commands.  Would you understand menus and dialogs with no instruction?  .  I would not disable them until you find out what and if you lose access to features you might want.
 
I created a ribbons tutorial which I’ll send under my signature. 
 
The reason you can’t get list views is not a Windows     10 problem.  The same settings have been in Windows to display things like files and folders in listviews since  Windows 95. 
 
I’ll let others explain how you get to the settings because I don’t have  Windows 10 and how you get to them may be different.  It has been my observation that, when people use Windows 10, if they use standard programs, they have little trouble moving to Windows 10.  Others will have to comment more on that because my observations are based on two friends who have some difficulty adapting to new interfaces, so I conclude that there isn’t much new you have to know if you use standard applications.  That doesn’t mean there isn’t anything you may wish to know but I don’t think there is much you have to know.  If you know, Windows, though each version of Windows has differences, you know the basics of Windows.
 
If you use Windows 10 apps, then I can’t discuss that.  And there are new settings and services in Windows 10 and there may be things you want to disable to remove clutter or make things such as the start menu search show the results you want without others, but I’ll let others discuss that. 
I don’t know that you need a tutorial or if you want one, if you know something like Windows 7 well, if there is a good tutorial for those moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10, that might serve you better than a general Windows 10 tutorial that might sspend all sorts of time teaching you things you already know.
 
Gene
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
Ribbons are ribbons wherever you find them.  This tutorial teaches you how to move through them and see or skip what you want.  certain ways of movement may cause you to miss things and not have any idea you are.  
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If the strucgture moves up and down on the screen, right arrowing will open more options.  That's why if one doesn't work, try the other.  If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.  I will say regarding the dependence on one screen-reader iswsue that tutorials for programs that use ribbons done for blind people generally don't use the JAWS virtual ribbons and you will be greatly limiting yourself in learning such programs with tutorials if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons.  The JAWS virtual ribbons are off by default so you needn't do anything if you haven't turned them on. 
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 and higher has the ribbon version of Wordpad on their machine. 
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear the item you are on and the short cut information to open or cause that item to take an action.  This iss the same behavior as in any standard menu. 
 
I told you one of the long ways to open the menu.  The short cut way is alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu  with alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menu and a then opens save as.  In other words, alt f was chosen as the short cut way to open the single menu in ribbon programs because it allowed the preservation of commands people have used for decades, such as alt f, a, for save as. 
 
Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
You can switch between moving by groups and individual items as often as you want.  You can move to a group, look through the items, then continue to move by group, switching to individual items again when you find a group you want to move through by individual items. 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  


Re: Email Question

John Holcomb II
 

Hey Shelly.
I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me explain something to you.
If you use iMap then whatever happens server side will apply to every device you use at the same time.
Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and read it .
Once you go to your phone, the same message will be there and it’ll be marked as read.
Let’s say you open a message on your phone, read it , then reply to it.
Your message will be marked as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder.
Let’s say you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as you would on your phone.

This applies to anything you do using email.
Deleting messages, forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything.
See the advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what on.
I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly why IMAP exists.
For this very reason. For people who have and use multiple devices.
this way you don’t have to worry about what you open where and when.
This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it?
Where is the reply?:
It also just makes managing mail a lot easier.
IMAP is made for multiple device/web access.

No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater detail the advantages of imap.
In case they didn’t, that’s why i wrote you here.
I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion.

Take care,
John


Sent from my iPod

On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane <shellykane323@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which I know. Thanks so much for your help.

Shelly

On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly









Re: windows 10 with jaws

joanne
 

Marvin and all, thanks for your input and we will definitely be in touch with those who let me know they're available to help. When I get windows 10 it's a relief to know I can email my specific concerns to someone who's used it.
 
I think the main problem my friend is having is what I am having whenever I see a computer that has 10. He couldn't get regular list views and, like many of us, didn't comprehend ribbons so I sent him a ribbon disabler. What I wasn't aware of until now was the comprehensive info we can get from Freedom Scientific. I will certainly be making use of that and will let my friend know that help from them is also available.
 
I realize there have been disagreements in the group about people's comfort level and wanting to stick with certain things that they're used to from other programs. That's why there are some work-arounds like classic shell and other tools. I'm very glad many of you have caught on to the strange setup of 10, but some of us--at least starting out--want certain aspects to have at least some familiarity to us. So I appreciate the great help that comes, and I also hope that those who don't have trouble adjusting to 10 might try to understand that some are in a different place and need some extra help and ideas as we learn this operating system.
 
Joanne

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:08 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

h. if you want to e-mail me and tell me what problems or issues. Been using windows 10 with jaws for about 7 years. A power user. So if I can help. Did you try googling if windows 10 utube. Did you try the freedom scientific training and then searching for windows 10.

Or what about the fs reader training about windows. That is for windows 10.

If you need help.

Happy to help.

Ps: don’t know of any programs which will have a shell like windows 7.

Just learn to use windows 10.

Marvin.


windows 10 with jaws

Marvin Hunkin
 

h. if you want to e-mail me and tell me what problems or issues. Been using windows 10 with jaws for about 7 years. A power user. So if I can help. Did you try googling if windows 10 utube. Did you try the freedom scientific training and then searching for windows 10.

Or what about the fs reader training about windows. That is for windows 10.

If you need help.

Happy to help.

Ps: don’t know of any programs which will have a shell like windows 7.

Just learn to use windows 10.

Marvin.


Re: Email Question

Shelly Kane
 

Thank you so much for explaining this to me.  I use a pop3 account and have for years.  Now at least I understand what's going on.  I wouldn't use my phone that much for email.  I was just looking into it.  If I don't download my mail right away onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone.  I have no idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which I know.  Thanks so much for your help.

Shelly

On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly.  Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail.  With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this.  I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time.  So after I got it all set up, it worked great.  The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it.  My phone had no email on there.  It was wiped clean.  This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird.  Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it?  Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly






Re: Email Question

Monte Single
 

Hi Pam,

I will leave my email settings as they are.
I want the messages left on the server; that way, I can get them with any computer. They expire on my mail server after 2 weeks.
That's fine with me.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: July 29, 2021 4:17 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

You just would have to go into settings and uncheck the box that says "keep email messages on the server". Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:29 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Good Morning All,

I do not want to confuse things, but my mail is setup on a pop 3 account.
My email server, sasktel.net leaves messages on the server for 2 weeks by default.
Last week, while doing some hardware upgrades on my win 10 computer, I started my old win 7 machine and opened outlook to make sure my mail was working.
Sure enough, there were several hundred messages that came in, even though they had already been received on my win 10 computer.
As I say, that seems to be the default on my server.

P s, I cloned and installed a new ssd drive on my win 10computer; I'm nopt noticing any great improvements in performance.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris
judge
Sent: July 29, 2021 8:20 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Agreed. That's why I suggested she switch her account to IMap. I'd never
recommend using pop 3.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: July 29, 2021 10:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Chris,

That is true, but you should probably switch to imap from pop3 to prevent
the messages being downloaded over and over each time you use Thunderbird.
If you leave the copies on the server using pop3, then you will keep getting
them over and over using pop3. Better to switch all accounts to imap. Imap
knows when all devices using the account have downloaded the messages and
then you can individually delete each message on each device.


On 7/29/2021 4:47 AM, chris judge wrote:
Hi Shelly.

It sounds like you have thunderbird set to use pop 3, and that the option
to leave a copy of your mail on the server is not checked, thus when you
open thunderbird it's downloading all the mail and taking it off the
server.
Others might have different info. I don't know thunderbird so others will
have to assist you with changing it, but I'm guessing you will have to
remove your account from thunderbird and set it up as IMap.

Cheers.

Chris Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shelly Kane
Sent: July 29, 2021 5:29 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer
this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can
start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I
got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I
wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the
computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the
problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both
places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was
wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and
I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google
either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps
happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in
advance for any help.

Shelly











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Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct
them for the betterment of all is no vice; For a nation to claim it has
always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past
achievements is no virtue!



















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Re: Email Question

Pamela Dominguez
 

You just would have to go into settings and uncheck the box that says "keep email messages on the server". Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:29 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Good Morning All,

I do not want to confuse things, but my mail is setup on a pop 3 account.
My email server, sasktel.net leaves messages on the server for 2 weeks by default.
Last week, while doing some hardware upgrades on my win 10 computer, I started my old win 7 machine and opened outlook to make sure my mail was working.
Sure enough, there were several hundred messages that came in, even though they had already been received on my win 10 computer.
As I say, that seems to be the default on my server.

P s, I cloned and installed a new ssd drive on my win 10computer; I'm nopt noticing any great improvements in performance.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: July 29, 2021 8:20 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Agreed. That's why I suggested she switch her account to IMap. I'd never recommend using pop 3.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: July 29, 2021 10:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Chris,

That is true, but you should probably switch to imap from pop3 to prevent the messages being downloaded over and over each time you use Thunderbird. If you leave the copies on the server using pop3, then you will keep getting them over and over using pop3. Better to switch all accounts to imap. Imap knows when all devices using the account have downloaded the messages and then you can individually delete each message on each device.


On 7/29/2021 4:47 AM, chris judge wrote:
Hi Shelly.

It sounds like you have thunderbird set to use pop 3, and that the option to leave a copy of your mail on the server is not checked, thus when you open thunderbird it's downloading all the mail and taking it off the server.
Others might have different info. I don't know thunderbird so others will have to assist you with changing it, but I'm guessing you will have to remove your account from thunderbird and set it up as IMap.

Cheers.

Chris Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shelly Kane
Sent: July 29, 2021 5:29 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly











--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice; For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!



















--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


Re: Email Question

Pamela Dominguez
 

I like pop three, but the person who set up this computer switched me. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: chris judge
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:20 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Agreed. That's why I suggested she switch her account to IMap. I'd never recommend using pop 3.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: July 29, 2021 10:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Chris,

That is true, but you should probably switch to imap from pop3 to prevent the messages being downloaded over and over each time you use Thunderbird. If you leave the copies on the server using pop3, then you will keep getting them over and over using pop3. Better to switch all accounts to imap. Imap knows when all devices using the account have downloaded the messages and then you can individually delete each message on each device.


On 7/29/2021 4:47 AM, chris judge wrote:
Hi Shelly.

It sounds like you have thunderbird set to use pop 3, and that the option to leave a copy of your mail on the server is not checked, thus when you open thunderbird it's downloading all the mail and taking it off the server.
Others might have different info. I don't know thunderbird so others will have to assist you with changing it, but I'm guessing you will have to remove your account from thunderbird and set it up as IMap.

Cheers.

Chris Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shelly Kane
Sent: July 29, 2021 5:29 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly











--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice; For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!













--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


looking for help with making windows 10 easier to use with jaws

joanne
 

I thought someone may have put out a tutorial, and I know someone who unfortunately had to get a windows 10 computer and he's pretty frustrated with its layout and everything. Are there programs that will make the layout more like windows 7? I know I may have to learn this too for when this computer stops working. But we're hoping that with good tutoring and suggestions from the email groups we can make it more doable.
 
Thanks.
 


Re: What is the command to go no mail?

Gene
 

Did you read the command carachter by carachter?  Did you put the at sign where it should be?  If you wrote it as written and got that response I don’t know why.
 
Your alternative is to set up a Groups.io account and make the change on the web site.  I’d have to look at the site to tell you how it is done.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] What is the command to go no mail?
 
That is what I did last night with two io groups and got an undeliverable message back.

Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@...
 
"Where focus goes, energy flows."
Bob Proctor
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] What is the command to go no mail?
 
Here is an example of how the command is written:
 
You evidently used the correct command but not in the proper rest of the command.
 
To resume mail, an example is:
 
You use the command you use to tell the list serve what kind of delivery you want, not a resume command.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 6:16 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] What is the command to go no mail?
 
On groups .io I thought the command to go no mail was plusnomail, but that isn't the case.  Can someone tell me what it is?  Thanks much.

Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@...
 
"Where focus goes, energy flows."
Bob Proctor


Re: What is the command to go no mail?

Kay Malmquist
 

That is what I did last night with two io groups and got an undeliverable message back.

Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@...
 
"Where focus goes, energy flows."
Bob Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] What is the command to go no mail?

Here is an example of how the command is written:
 
You evidently used the correct command but not in the proper rest of the command.
 
To resume mail, an example is:
 
You use the command you use to tell the list serve what kind of delivery you want, not a resume command.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 6:16 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] What is the command to go no mail?
 
On groups .io I thought the command to go no mail was plusnomail, but that isn't the case.  Can someone tell me what it is?  Thanks much.

Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@...
 
"Where focus goes, energy flows."
Bob Proctor


Re: Email Question

Monte Single
 

Good Morning All,

I do not want to confuse things, but my mail is setup on a pop 3 account.
My email server, sasktel.net leaves messages on the server for 2 weeks by default.
Last week, while doing some hardware upgrades on my win 10 computer, I started my old win 7 machine and opened outlook to make sure my mail was working.
Sure enough, there were several hundred messages that came in, even though they had already been received on my win 10 computer.
As I say, that seems to be the default on my server.

P s, I cloned and installed a new ssd drive on my win 10computer; I'm nopt noticing any great improvements in performance.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: July 29, 2021 8:20 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Agreed. That's why I suggested she switch her account to IMap. I'd never recommend using pop 3.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: July 29, 2021 10:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Chris,

That is true, but you should probably switch to imap from pop3 to prevent the messages being downloaded over and over each time you use Thunderbird. If you leave the copies on the server using pop3, then you will keep getting them over and over using pop3. Better to switch all accounts to imap. Imap knows when all devices using the account have downloaded the messages and then you can individually delete each message on each device.


On 7/29/2021 4:47 AM, chris judge wrote:
Hi Shelly.

It sounds like you have thunderbird set to use pop 3, and that the option to leave a copy of your mail on the server is not checked, thus when you open thunderbird it's downloading all the mail and taking it off the server.
Others might have different info. I don't know thunderbird so others will have to assist you with changing it, but I'm guessing you will have to remove your account from thunderbird and set it up as IMap.

Cheers.

Chris Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shelly Kane
Sent: July 29, 2021 5:29 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly











--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice; For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Re: Email Question

chris judge
 

Agreed. That's why I suggested she switch her account to IMap. I'd never recommend using pop 3.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: July 29, 2021 10:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Chris,

That is true, but you should probably switch to imap from pop3 to prevent the messages being downloaded over and over each time you use Thunderbird. If you leave the copies on the server using pop3, then you will keep getting them over and over using pop3. Better to switch all accounts to imap. Imap knows when all devices using the account have downloaded the messages and then you can individually delete each message on each device.


On 7/29/2021 4:47 AM, chris judge wrote:
Hi Shelly.

It sounds like you have thunderbird set to use pop 3, and that the option to leave a copy of your mail on the server is not checked, thus when you open thunderbird it's downloading all the mail and taking it off the server.
Others might have different info. I don't know thunderbird so others will have to assist you with changing it, but I'm guessing you will have to remove your account from thunderbird and set it up as IMap.

Cheers.

Chris Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shelly Kane
Sent: July 29, 2021 5:29 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly











--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice; For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Re: Email Question

Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
 

If using POP3 and desiring to have E-mail remain on the server, just take a
look at the Server Settings; there should be a toggle like: "LEAVE E-MAIL
ON THE SERVER". If unchecked, place a checkmark and you should be golden!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


Re: Email Question

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Chris,

That is true, but you should probably switch to imap from pop3 to prevent the messages being downloaded over and over each time you use Thunderbird. If you leave the copies on the server using pop3, then you will keep getting them over and over using pop3.  Better to switch all accounts to imap. Imap knows when all devices using the account have downloaded the messages and then you can individually delete each message on each device.

On 7/29/2021 4:47 AM, chris judge wrote:
Hi Shelly.

It sounds like you have thunderbird set to use pop 3, and that the option to leave a copy of your mail on the server is not checked, thus when you open thunderbird it's downloading all the mail and taking it off the server.
Others might have different info. I don't know thunderbird so others will have to assist you with changing it, but I'm guessing you will have to remove your account from thunderbird and set it up as IMap.

Cheers.

Chris Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: July 29, 2021 5:29 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly










--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Re: Email Question

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly.  Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail.  With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this.  I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time.  So after I got it all set up, it worked great.  The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more.  It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem.  When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it.  My phone had no email on there.  It was wiped clean.  This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird.  Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it?  Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly




--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

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