Date   

Re: windows 10 with jaws

chris judge
 

Remember, the virtual ribbon option was introduced in Jaws many years ago, around the time of ribbons inception. I didn’t use ribbons back then so can’t speak to how accessible they were back then. I don’t think too many people use the virtual ribbon option these days.

 

Chris Judge

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: July 30, 2021 6:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

The article discusses how ribbons are more consistent.  Despite claims Freedom Scientific makes, ribbons are consistent and properly accessible and the article discusses all that. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:41 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

I didn’t see it,

I’ve also found that while yes I can navigate stuff, figuring out which keys does what in every ribbon isn’t the easiest thing to do.

I still do not see a problem with using t the JAWS access r for the ribbon.

For me, it’s a matter of consistency which I think FS was trying to  a achieve in part.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

The JAWS virtual menus are not a good way to work with ribbons.  See this discussion. 

https://blindtechnology.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/microsoft-ribbon-is-accessible/

Also, if you use them, since instructional material in general uses real ribbons, you are making it harder to use tutorials and other instructional material. 

 

Did you see the tutorial I sent earlier today?  To move through a ribbon efficiently requires knowledge of one or two commands for moving quickly through ribbons, which I explain, and memorizing combinations of letters that make up a command, equivalent to shortcut commands on a menu, such as alt f, a, that you use regularly.

 

It is a little less efficient to move through ribbons, even when using shortcut commands because shortcut commands usually require another letter or two or perhaps three.  But nonribbon commands, previously used in ribbon programs mostly still work such as control o for open, control r for reply, etc so this loss of efficiency is often not a problem because you still use all or almost all the most efficient control plus letter or number commands you used in the menu versions.  . 

 

But whenever people disable ribbons, my qquestion is, what will you loose access to and what will be harder to do?  I don’t know the answers because I don’t disable ribbons.  Others may want to discuss the question.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

I have jaws set to show the jaws ribbon.
I honestly do not find  ribbons as easy to  navigate and would prefer too disable them.
John


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

I think one reason is that ribbons may not be clear in terms of how they are organized and how to work with them if you just come across them and have no good instruction.  That probably happened to a lot of people who had none or had some help from people who didn't understand them properly either.


The word from people who have such experiences spreads from them throughout the blind computer using community.


If there had been some sort of utopian way to send good help in the form
of explanations and demonstrations to all those in the blind Windows
computer using community as soon as ribbons were released, a lot of the
fear surrounding ribbons might have been preempted.


Gene
On 7/30/2021 3:28 PM, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> It's amazing to me that a word, one simple word can cause such angst,
> such fear, such unreasoning terror.  Ribbons are menus, pure and
> simple.  They may cause some difficulty for the sighted because they
> are horizontal and not vertical, but what is so terrifying about a
> menu?  You've been working with menus since you started using a
> computer.  Why aren't you terrified by menus? They're just the same as
> ribbons!  Ribbons are horizontal menus, that's all.  They have more
> data in them, but they're only menus, just menus.  ""Beware the
> Jabberwock, The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
> Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
> The frumious Bandersnatch!”
> ― Lewis Carroll,  Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There
>
> <smiling>
> Ann P.
>
>
>
>
> Original message:
>
>> Really there’s a ribene disabler?
>
>> What is that n and how odes it work?
>
>> Thanks,
>
>> John
>
>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
>> joanne
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 7:52 AM
>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
>
>> Marvin and all, thanks for your input and we will definitely be in
>> touch with those who let me know they're available to help. When I
>> get windows 10 it's a relief to know I can email my specific concerns
>> to someone who's used it.
>
>> I think the main problem my friend is having is what I am having
>> whenever I see a computer that has 10. He couldn't get regular list
>> views and, like many of us, didn't comprehend ribbons so I sent him a
>> ribbon disabler. What I wasn't aware of until now was the
>> comprehensive info we can get from Freedom Scientific. I will
>> certainly be making use of that and will let my friend know that help
>> from them is also available.
>
>> I realize there have been disagreements in the group about people's
>> comfort level and wanting to stick with certain things that they're
>> used to from other programs. That's why there are some work-arounds
>> like classic shell and other tools. I'm very glad many of you have
>> caught on to the strange setup of 10, but some of us--at least
>> starting out--want certain aspects to have at least some familiarity
>> to us. So I appreciate the great help that comes, and I also hope
>> that those who don't have trouble adjusting to 10 might try to
>> understand that some are in a different place and need some extra
>> help and ideas as we learn this operating system.
>
>> Joanne
>
>> From: Marvin Hunkin <mailto:startrektech@...>
>
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:08 AM
>
>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>
>> Subject: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
>
>> h. if you want to e-mail me and tell me what problems or issues. Been
>> using windows 10 with jaws for about 7 years. A power user. So if I
>> can help. Did you try googling if windows 10 utube. Did you try the
>> freedom scientific training and then searching for windows 10.
>
>> Or what about the fs reader training about windows. That is for
>> windows 10.
>
>> If you need help.
>
>> Happy to help.
>
>> Ps: don’t know of any programs which will have a shell like windows 7.
>
>> Just learn to use windows 10.
>
>> Marvin.
>
>>
>









Re: Email Question

Shelly Kane
 

John:


Thanks for getting back to me.  I think I told you that I hit Control Enter to send a message and to begin a message, I hit Control N.  As to the folders, I like all of my mail to go into the in box.  When I delete a message, I have it go into the trash folder and then when there is a lot, I delete them totally from that folder and they come off the computer.  I don't like to plug my computer up with messages.  I also have a sent folder that the message I send fall into.  When I start a message and can't finish it, it goes to the drafts folder and then I can go back to it after I save it.  That's all of the folders I want.

Shelly

On 7/30/2021 4:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:
Hey Shelly,
Like ok right now.
Do you have rules set up so that certain mail go into certain folders?

The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which protocol you use, pop3 or imap.
Because you see, the keystroke you use to send the message is one that is built into the program.
Does that make sense ?
Once you answer the question about folders, I can direct you further.
Glad to help in any way that I can!
John


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 8:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

John:


No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail and then I hit
F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely do it. Thanks in advance.

Shelly

On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:
Hey Shelly.
I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me explain something to you.
If you use iMap then whatever happens server side will apply to every device you use at the same time.
Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and read it .
Once you go to your phone, the same message will be there and it’ll be marked as read.
Let’s say you open a message on your phone, read it , then reply to it.
Your message will be marked as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder.
Let’s say you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as you would on your phone.

This applies to anything you do using email.
Deleting messages, forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything.
See the advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what on.
I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly why IMAP exists.
For this very reason. For people who have and use multiple devices.
this way you don’t have to worry about what you open where and when.
This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it?
Where is the reply?:
It also just makes managing mail a lot easier.
IMAP is made for multiple device/web access.

No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater detail the advantages of imap.
In case they didn’t, that’s why i wrote you here.
I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion.

Take care,
John


Sent from my iPod

On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane <shellykane323@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which I know. Thanks so much for your help.

Shelly

On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly








.








.


Exercise bike question regarding technology

Cole <coleredsocks@...>
 

Hello
What is the best exercise and stationary bike for the totally blind. A lot of exercise bikes that I have worked with have touch screens with the controls and information like speed and distance is built into the touch screen. Is there a talk or Braille exercise bike?
Cole Roberts


On Jul 27, 2021, at 8:08 PM, Mike B. <mb69mach1@...> wrote:


Hi Jim,
 
Try the following:
Note: If you want to make these settings in a particular application / program, then open the application / program & open the Settings Center while in
the application / program & skip step #2.  If you want these settings for all applications follow all the steps below.
 
1. Open the Settings Center with, Insert / Jaws key + 6, on the number row above the main keyboard.
2. Press, Control, Shift, + D, to open Setting Center default all applications.
3. Arrow down to, Text Processing, & right arrow to open.
4. Arrow down to, Number & Date Processing, & right arrow to open.
Note: If you want the date to read correctly when it's in a number format, arrow down 1 time to, Numeric Date Processing, press the spacebar to toggle
through your options, & stop when Jaws reports, Some Translation.
5. Arrow down 1 time to, Number Processing, press the spacebar to toggle through the options.  Stop when Jaws reports, Controlled By Synthesizer.
6. Arrow down to, Speak Single Digits, right arrow to open, arrow down to, If Number Contains, press the spacebar to toggle through the options, & stop
when Jaws reports, Controlled By The Synthesizer.
7. Arrow down to, If number contains dashes, this box needs to be checked.
8. If you want dollar & cents amounts reported correctly, arrow down to, Speak Dollars, & make sure this box is checked.
9. Tab to, Apply, press the spacebar, tab to, Okay, press enter to save your changes & close the Settings Center.
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my iBarstool.  Go Dodgers!
 
 
Stay safe & take care.  Mike.
Just once, I want a username and password prompt to say:  "Close Enough!"
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 5:24 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] How to get Jaws 2021 reading number not numerals'

Members
My system win 7 JAWS 2021
How do I set Jaws to read numbers like 3500 as thirty five hundred and
not by 3, 5, 0, 0?
Thanks
Jim

--
Jim Elsner





Info about Pen Friend

Marilyn and Don Bilderback
 

My Pen Friend finally bit the dust after years of almost daily use.  Now I can’t independently pick out my own clothes.  I sure miss that thing!

 

Anyone use the new Pen Friend, I think it is called the 3. 

 

I would appreciate any information from users about how they like it or what doesn’t work.  It says it takes 3 to 6 weeks to come and you order from Maxi Aids.  Any other sellers of this product?  Either the price has gone up a lot or I surely don’t remember the cost being so high. Sounds like it comes from the UK.

 

This is one item I have gotten much use out of.  It makes me mad that I heard you can’t use the labels with the new one.

 

Help me make up my mind whether to order another Pen Friend.  Thanks much.  Marilyn   


Voice Commands with Android and TalkBack

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello,

The latest video from my Tech and Outdoor Adventures YouTube channel, www.youtube.com/nimerjaber is regarding Android voice commands. I go over why you might want to use them, how to make use them easier, what you can say, and a tip about where voice commands actually makes performing a specific task more accessible.

To watch the video, please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSHKYPYG8g

If you liked the video, please remember to press the like button. Please also subscribe if you are not subscribed, and remember to share it with your network.

Thanks for all of your support.

--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Email Question

John Holcomb II
 

To each their own, I say.
That would drive me to absolute insanity.
If I deleted a message she didn't want...
John

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marilyn and Don Bilderback
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 9:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

You just described exactly why we have Pop 3. Lol We don't want one or the other deleting an Email and the other will never see it. We both want to manage our own idea of what goes where and what we should keep. Our one account is all we have. If we were each having our own Email address, the story might be different. We share and read through all incoming mail in the inbox.

This is the way we like it and it serves our purposes exactly as we want. I guess everyone is different.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Blaster
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 1:29 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

IMAP will be your best choice.


Here's a few examples,

Using IMAP, If you were on your iPhone connected to your mail account and your husband was on the computer and connected to the same mail account, each action taken by either one of you, will be reflected in the others view.
That is to say, if you delete a message, the message will be deleted from your husbands PC and the other way around.

Using POP3, if you were to delete a message, it would still be on your husbands computer and the other way around.

If the server is set to deliver mail and delete any copies after the transaction, one device, either your iPhone or your husbands computer would have all of the new e-mail locally, and when the other person went to check the mail it would look to be empty.

If the server keeps emails on the server after checking for new mail, it would be possible for the server, the iPhone and the computer to all show a different selection of e-mails depending on which ones you saved, moved or deleted.

That could end up being a big mess, use IMAP!

HTH,
Blaster


On 7/30/21, Marilyn and Don Bilderback <djbilderback@cox.net> wrote:
We keep it simple and both use the same Email. No secrets after 58
years together. smile

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Alex Stone
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 12:42 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Tat’s not an easy question to answer. Would they both be using the
same email account, or different ones?
On 30 Jul 2021, at 20:40, Marilyn and Don Bilderback
<djbilderback@cox.net> wrote:

Well, what happens in an instance where one person has an iPhone and
uses Email and the spouse only uses the computer for Emails? Would
Pop or iMap-- Be the right choice? iMap Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
John Holcomb II
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:15 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hey Shelly.
I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me explain
something to you.
If you use iMap then whatever happens server side will apply to every
device you use at the same time.
Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and read
it .
Once you go to your phone, the same message will be there and it’ll
be marked as read.
Let’s say you open a message on your phone, read it , then reply to it.
Your message will be marked as replied, you’re reply be put into a
sent folder.
Let’s say you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but
it’ll be marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder,
just as you would on your phone.

This applies to anything you do using email.
Deleting messages, forwarding messages, creating folders, literally
anything.
See the advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you
do what on.
I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly why
IMAP exists.
For this very reason. For people who have and use multiple devices.
this way you don’t have to worry about what you open where and when.
This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I open the mail on my PC,
is it on my phone? Where is it?
Where is the reply?:
It also just makes managing mail a lot easier.
IMAP is made for multiple device/web access.

No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your phone,
or the web interface, the server will keep track of everything that
is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I did read the thread,
but not sure if anyone explains in greater detail the advantages of imap.
In case they didn’t, that’s why i wrote you here.
I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with your mails. It’ll
make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion.

Take care,
John


Sent from my iPod

On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane <shellykane323@gmail.com>
wrote:

Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 account
and have for years. Now at least I understand what's going on. I
wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was just looking into
it. If I don't download my mail right away onto Thunderbird, I can
see it on the web or my phone. I have no idea how to use IMap so I
would rather stick with the pop3 which I know. Thanks so much for your help.

Shelly

On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly.
Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail.
With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is
left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than
that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can
answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last
night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time.
So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail
downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in
Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in
Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on
the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird
blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean.
This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go
to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google
either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why
this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly



























Re: Email Question

Marilyn and Don Bilderback
 

You just described exactly why we have Pop 3. Lol We don't want one or the other deleting an Email and the other will never see it. We both want to manage our own idea of what goes where and what we should keep. Our one account is all we have. If we were each having our own Email address, the story might be different. We share and read through all incoming mail in the inbox.

This is the way we like it and it serves our purposes exactly as we want. I guess everyone is different.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Blaster
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 1:29 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

IMAP will be your best choice.


Here's a few examples,

Using IMAP, If you were on your iPhone connected to your mail account and your husband was on the computer and connected to the same mail account, each action taken by either one of you, will be reflected in the others view.
That is to say, if you delete a message, the message will be deleted from your husbands PC and the other way around.

Using POP3, if you were to delete a message, it would still be on your husbands computer and the other way around.

If the server is set to deliver mail and delete any copies after the transaction, one device, either your iPhone or your husbands computer would have all of the new e-mail locally, and when the other person went to check the mail it would look to be empty.

If the server keeps emails on the server after checking for new mail, it would be possible for the server, the iPhone and the computer to all show a different selection of e-mails depending on which ones you saved, moved or deleted.

That could end up being a big mess, use IMAP!

HTH,
Blaster


On 7/30/21, Marilyn and Don Bilderback <djbilderback@cox.net> wrote:
We keep it simple and both use the same Email. No secrets after 58
years together. smile

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Alex Stone
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 12:42 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Tat’s not an easy question to answer. Would they both be using the
same email account, or different ones?
On 30 Jul 2021, at 20:40, Marilyn and Don Bilderback
<djbilderback@cox.net> wrote:

Well, what happens in an instance where one person has an iPhone and
uses Email and the spouse only uses the computer for Emails? Would
Pop or iMap-- Be the right choice? iMap Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
John Holcomb II
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:15 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

Hey Shelly.
I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me explain
something to you.
If you use iMap then whatever happens server side will apply to every
device you use at the same time.
Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and read
it .
Once you go to your phone, the same message will be there and it’ll
be marked as read.
Let’s say you open a message on your phone, read it , then reply to it.
Your message will be marked as replied, you’re reply be put into a
sent folder.
Let’s say you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but
it’ll be marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder,
just as you would on your phone.

This applies to anything you do using email.
Deleting messages, forwarding messages, creating folders, literally
anything.
See the advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you
do what on.
I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly why
IMAP exists.
For this very reason. For people who have and use multiple devices.
this way you don’t have to worry about what you open where and when.
This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I open the mail on my PC,
is it on my phone? Where is it?
Where is the reply?:
It also just makes managing mail a lot easier.
IMAP is made for multiple device/web access.

No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your phone,
or the web interface, the server will keep track of everything that
is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I did read the thread,
but not sure if anyone explains in greater detail the advantages of imap.
In case they didn’t, that’s why i wrote you here.
I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with your mails. It’ll
make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion.

Take care,
John


Sent from my iPod

On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane <shellykane323@gmail.com>
wrote:

Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 account
and have for years. Now at least I understand what's going on. I
wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was just looking into
it. If I don't download my mail right away onto Thunderbird, I can
see it on the web or my phone. I have no idea how to use IMap so I
would rather stick with the pop3 which I know. Thanks so much for your help.

Shelly

On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly.
Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail.
With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is
left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than
that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can
answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last
night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time.
So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail
downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in
Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in
Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on
the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird
blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean.
This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go
to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google
either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why
this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly



























Re: Email Question

Gene
 

As I understand it, you use different shortcut commands in the virtual menus.  I don’t know that, however, because I only looked at the virtual menus briefly.  Others may know. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question
 

So you can’t use the shortcut keys?

Because I found those still work.

I’m not arguing just making sure I understand  clearly.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

it doesn’t do so unless you use the JAWS virtual menus but JAWS virtual menus changes the ribbon interface and you can’t use the commands that are given for using unmodified ribbons.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:55 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

So Jaws actually changes the ribbons?

And it  introduces its own keystrokes?

Is that why it wouldn’t work as affectively if you are trying to view a generalized tutorial ?

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Windows 10 uses ribbons in important parts of its interface.  if you get a Windows tutorial or a Word tutorial they generally use ribbons, not JAWS virtual ribbons. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:41 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Gene,

Your first point is t the one that  I don’t understand.

How would using a tutorial be harder to use?

Thanks,

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:36 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 

 

For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 

 

Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> mailto:shellykane323@... wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

John Holcomb II
 

So you can’t use the shortcut keys?

Because I found those still work.

I’m not arguing just making sure I understand  clearly.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

it doesn’t do so unless you use the JAWS virtual menus but JAWS virtual menus changes the ribbon interface and you can’t use the commands that are given for using unmodified ribbons.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:55 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

So Jaws actually changes the ribbons?

And it  introduces its own keystrokes?

Is that why it wouldn’t work as affectively if you are trying to view a generalized tutorial ?

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Windows 10 uses ribbons in important parts of its interface.  if you get a Windows tutorial or a Word tutorial they generally use ribbons, not JAWS virtual ribbons. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:41 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Gene,

Your first point is t the one that  I don’t understand.

How would using a tutorial be harder to use?

Thanks,

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:36 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 

 

For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 

 

Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> mailto:shellykane323@... wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

Gene
 

it doesn’t do so unless you use the JAWS virtual menus but JAWS virtual menus changes the ribbon interface and you can’t use the commands that are given for using unmodified ribbons.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question
 

So Jaws actually changes the ribbons?

And it  introduces its own keystrokes?

Is that why it wouldn’t work as affectively if you are trying to view a generalized tutorial ?

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Windows 10 uses ribbons in important parts of its interface.  if you get a Windows tutorial or a Word tutorial they generally use ribbons, not JAWS virtual ribbons. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:41 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Gene,

Your first point is t the one that  I don’t understand.

How would using a tutorial be harder to use?

Thanks,

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:36 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 

 

For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 

 

Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> mailto:shellykane323@... wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

John Holcomb II
 

So Jaws actually changes the ribbons?

And it  introduces its own keystrokes?

Is that why it wouldn’t work as affectively if you are trying to view a generalized tutorial ?

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Windows 10 uses ribbons in important parts of its interface.  if you get a Windows tutorial or a Word tutorial they generally use ribbons, not JAWS virtual ribbons. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:41 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

Gene,

Your first point is t the one that  I don’t understand.

How would using a tutorial be harder to use?

Thanks,

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:36 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 

 

For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 

 

Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> mailto:shellykane323@... wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

Gene
 

Windows 10 uses ribbons in important parts of its interface.  if you get a Windows tutorial or a Word tutorial they generally use ribbons, not JAWS virtual ribbons. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question
 

Gene,

Your first point is t the one that  I don’t understand.

How would using a tutorial be harder to use?

Thanks,

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:36 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 

 

For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 

 

Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> mailto:shellykane323@... wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

John Holcomb II
 

Gene,

Your first point is t the one that  I don’t understand.

How would using a tutorial be harder to use?

Thanks,

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:36 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 

 

For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 

 

Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> <shellykane323@...> wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

Gene
 

I want to clarify that I’m not saying most programs use ribbons.  I’m saying that if you use tutorials for programs that do, they usually use real ribbons.  Windows tutorials for Windows 10 usually do as well.  Also, you are making it harder to try to use other screen-readers.
 
Gene

-----Original message-----
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question
 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 

 

For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 

 

Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

 

> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> mailto:shellykane323@... wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

Gene
 

I'm not writing this to argue about what you should do.  But because of the amount of worry about ribbons, I'll say the following to those considering what to do:

If you use JAWS virtual menus, you are making tutorials that use ribbons, and they generally do, harder or much harder to use. 


For anyone considering what to do, please read the article I sent.  Ribbons do speak more But once you have looked through the ribbon, you can interrupt speech and continue to move, just as you do in general when something is telling you information you don't want to hear.  In my opinion, the advantages of using real ribbons far outweigh less speech in the JAWS virtual menus.  Also, because ribbons talk more and have a lot more items in them, you can save a lot of time going through ribbons by using fast movement commands that I discuss in my tutorial.  My point is that in some ways, menus may be more pleasant to use but once you get used to ribbons and learn short cut commands, they shouldn't be more inefficient to use enough to amount to much. 


Gene

7/30/2021 5:10 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:


> Hey Shelly, Like ok right now. Do you have rules set up so that > certain mail go into certain folders? > > The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which > protocol you use, pop3 or imap. Because you see, the keystroke you > use to send the message is one that is built into the program. Does > that make sense ? Once you answer the question about folders, I can > direct you further. Glad to help in any way that I can! John > > > -----Original Message----- From: main@TechTalk.groups.io > <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane Sent: Friday, July > 30, 2021 8:00 PM To: main@TechTalk.groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] > Email Question > > John: > > > No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy > at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I > have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird > that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail > and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then > it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the > list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? > My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would > eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my > devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when > I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for > iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that > things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If > you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely > do it. Thanks in advance. > > Shelly > > On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote: >> Hey Shelly. I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me >> explain something to you. If you use iMap then whatever happens >> server side will apply to every device you use at the same time. >> Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and >> read it . Once you go to your phone, the same message will be >> there and it’ll be marked as read. Let’s say you open a message on >> your phone, read it , then reply to it. Your message will be marked >> as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder. Let’s say >> you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be >> marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as >> you would on your phone. >> >> This applies to anything you do using email. Deleting messages, >> forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything. See the >> advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what >> on. I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly >> why IMAP exists. For this very reason. For people who have and use >> multiple devices. this way you don’t have to worry about what you >> open where and when. This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I >> open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it? Where is >> the reply?: It also just makes managing mail a lot easier. IMAP is >> made for multiple device/web access. >> >> No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your >> phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of >> everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I >> did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater >> detail the advantages of imap. In case they didn’t, that’s why i >> wrote you here. I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with >> your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion. >> >> Take care, John >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane >>> <shellykane323@...> wrote: >>> >>> Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 >>> account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's >>> going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was >>> just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away >>> onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no >>> idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which >>> I know. Thanks so much for your help. >>> >>> Shelly >>> >>>> On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: Hi There, >>>> >>>> You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork >>>> properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server >>>> of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just >>>> one time and nothing is left on the server. I forget what mail >>>> account you have, so i can't help any more than that. >>>> >>>>> On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote: Hi Group: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone >>>>> can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my >>>>> phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on >>>>> the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it >>>>> worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to >>>>> make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the >>>>> computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but >>>>> here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if >>>>> the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My >>>>> phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This >>>>> happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go >>>>> to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on >>>>> google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you >>>>> know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I >>>>> can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help. >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> . > > > > > > > > > > >


Re: Email Question

John Holcomb II
 

Hey Shelly,
Like ok right now.
Do you have rules set up so that certain mail go into certain folders?

The keystrokes to send a message will remain the same no matter which protocol you use, pop3 or imap.
Because you see, the keystroke you use to send the message is one that is built into the program.
Does that make sense ?
Once you answer the question about folders, I can direct you further.
Glad to help in any way that I can!
John

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 8:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Email Question

John:


No, no one explained iMap the way you just did. I'm not tech savvy at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can. The question I have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird that I have set up now? When I open the program, I download my mail and then I hit
F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the list of messages. Does iMap work like that or is it more involved? My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things. I would eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my devices. When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when I'm done, I hit Control S to send. Does this work the same way for iMap? Sorry that I have so many questions. I just need to know that things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again. If you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely do it. Thanks in advance.

Shelly

On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:
Hey Shelly.
I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me explain something to you.
If you use iMap then whatever happens server side will apply to every device you use at the same time.
Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and read it .
Once you go to your phone, the same message will be there and it’ll be marked as read.
Let’s say you open a message on your phone, read it , then reply to it.
Your message will be marked as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder.
Let’s say you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as you would on your phone.

This applies to anything you do using email.
Deleting messages, forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything.
See the advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what on.
I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly why IMAP exists.
For this very reason. For people who have and use multiple devices.
this way you don’t have to worry about what you open where and when.
This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it?
Where is the reply?:
It also just makes managing mail a lot easier.
IMAP is made for multiple device/web access.

No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater detail the advantages of imap.
In case they didn’t, that’s why i wrote you here.
I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion.

Take care,
John


Sent from my iPod

On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane <shellykane323@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which I know. Thanks so much for your help.

Shelly

On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly










.


Re: windows 10 with jaws

John Holcomb II
 

I read  it.

For me if I turn off the jaws ribbon, I actually find jaws to be way more chattery and find the arrow key navigation to be inconsistent.

It also gives me a lot of information which I can’t remember like all of the letters to get to whatever point I am, although I could use speech history to review it.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:58 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

Also, I don’t know what you mean by memorizing keys to use in different ribbons.  There are different shortcut commands, as in menus, but ribbons are menus, but you tab through them and they have more items in them. 

Instead of up and down arrowing, you tab and shift tab. 

 

Here, below my signature, is my tutorial.

 

Gene

 

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 

 

I've added a little to it here.

 

Ribbons are ribbons wherever you find them.  This tutorial teaches you how to move through them and see or skip what you want.  certain ways of movement may cause you to miss things and not have any idea you are.  

 

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 

One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 

Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 

 

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If the strucgture moves up and down on the screen, right arrowing will open more options.  That's why if one doesn't work, try the other.  If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 

Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

 

Now, to ribbons themselves.

 

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.  I will say regarding the dependence on one screen-reader iswsue that tutorials for programs that use ribbons done for blind people generally don't use the JAWS virtual ribbons and you will be greatly limiting yourself in learning such programs with tutorials if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons.  The JAWS virtual ribbons are off by default so you needn't do anything if you haven't turned them on. 

 

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 and higher has the ribbon version of Wordpad on their machine. 

 

The essence of working with ribbons is this:

Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.

You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 

To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one

direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

 

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  

 

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 

 

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.

So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 

 

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

 

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 

But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

 

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

 

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 

Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.

You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear the item you are on and the short cut information to open or cause that item to take an action.  This iss the same behavior as in any standard menu. 

 

I told you one of the long ways to open the menu.  The short cut way is alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu  with alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menu and a then opens save as.  In other words, alt f was chosen as the short cut way to open the single menu in ribbon programs because it allowed the preservation of commands people have used for decades, such as alt f, a, for save as. 

 

Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

 

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.

To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 

You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 

there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 

As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 

Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.

Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 

 

You can switch between moving by groups and individual items as often as you want.  You can move to a group, look through the items, then continue to move by group, switching to individual items again when you find a group you want to move through by individual items. 

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 

Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 

 

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs

that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  


Re: windows 10 with jaws

Gene
 

Also, I don’t know what you mean by memorizing keys to use in different ribbons.  There are different shortcut commands, as in menus, but ribbons are menus, but you tab through them and they have more items in them. 
Instead of up and down arrowing, you tab and shift tab. 
 
Here, below my signature, is my tutorial.
 
Gene
 
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
Ribbons are ribbons wherever you find them.  This tutorial teaches you how to move through them and see or skip what you want.  certain ways of movement may cause you to miss things and not have any idea you are.  
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If the strucgture moves up and down on the screen, right arrowing will open more options.  That's why if one doesn't work, try the other.  If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.  I will say regarding the dependence on one screen-reader iswsue that tutorials for programs that use ribbons done for blind people generally don't use the JAWS virtual ribbons and you will be greatly limiting yourself in learning such programs with tutorials if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons.  The JAWS virtual ribbons are off by default so you needn't do anything if you haven't turned them on. 
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 and higher has the ribbon version of Wordpad on their machine. 
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear the item you are on and the short cut information to open or cause that item to take an action.  This iss the same behavior as in any standard menu. 
 
I told you one of the long ways to open the menu.  The short cut way is alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu  with alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menu and a then opens save as.  In other words, alt f was chosen as the short cut way to open the single menu in ribbon programs because it allowed the preservation of commands people have used for decades, such as alt f, a, for save as. 
 
Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
You can switch between moving by groups and individual items as often as you want.  You can move to a group, look through the items, then continue to move by group, switching to individual items again when you find a group you want to move through by individual items. 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  


Re: Email Question

Shelly Kane
 

John:


No, no one explained iMap the way you just did.  I'm not tech savvy at all so I'm lucky that I can do the things I can.  The question I have is when I set up iMap, will it look my folders in Thunderbird that I have set up now?  When I open the program, I download my mail and then I hit F6 to see a list of my folders and I hit tab and then it says filter messages and then I can do my business and go down the list of messages.  Does iMap work like that or is it more involved?  My niece is sighted and usually helps me with these things.  I would eventually want my mail to come off the server so it doesn't clog my devices.  When I send a message, I hit Control Enter and then when I'm done, I hit Control S to send.  Does this work the same way for iMap?  Sorry that I have so many questions.  I just need to know that things work the same way so I don't have to start all over again.  If you could tell me how to set it up step by step, I could definitely do it. Thanks in advance.

Shelly

On 7/30/2021 6:15 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:
Hey Shelly.
I’m not here to decide what is best for you but let me explain something to you.
If you use iMap then whatever happens server side will apply to every device you use at the same time.
Let’s say you get a message on your thunderbird and open it and read it .
Once you go to your phone, the same message will be there and it’ll be marked as read.
Let’s say you open a message on your phone, read it , then reply to it.
Your message will be marked as replied, you’re reply be put into a sent folder.
Let’s say you then go to your PC. You’ll see the same message, but it’ll be marked as replied, and you’ll see it in the sent folder, just as you would on your phone.

This applies to anything you do using email.
Deleting messages, forwarding messages, creating folders, literally anything.
See the advantage of iMap is that it doesn’t matter what device you do what on.
I used to use Pop3 some while back, but see this is exactly why IMAP exists.
For this very reason. For people who have and use multiple devices.
this way you don’t have to worry about what you open where and when.
This way you don’t have to think, hmm. Did I open the mail on my PC, is it on my phone? Where is it?
Where is the reply?:
It also just makes managing mail a lot easier.
IMAP is made for multiple device/web access.

No mattter if you do these things on your thunderbird, or your phone, or the web interface, the server will keep track of everything that is done and it’ll be mirrored across devices. I did read the thread, but not sure if anyone explains in greater detail the advantages of imap.
In case they didn’t, that’s why i wrote you here.
I’d personally a advise you switch to iMap with your mails. It’ll make life a lot easier for you, in my opinion.

Take care,
John


Sent from my iPod

On Jul 30, 2021, at 2:57 AM, Shelly Kane <shellykane323@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you so much for explaining this to me. I use a pop3 account and have for years. Now at least I understand what's going on. I wouldn't use my phone that much for email. I was just looking into it. If I don't download my mail right away onto Thunderbird, I can see it on the web or my phone. I have no idea how to use IMap so I would rather stick with the pop3 which I know. Thanks so much for your help.

Shelly

On 7/29/2021 7:51 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi There,

You must have your mail account set to imap for this to woork properly. Imap will automatically leave a copy on the server of all received mail. With pop3, all e-mail is downloaded just one time and nothing is left on the server.
I forget what mail account you have, so i can't help any more than that.

On 7/29/2021 4:28 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Hi Group:


I have a complicated question about my email and hope someone can answer this. I tried putting my email account on my phone last night so I can start looking at it and not get on the computer all the time. So after I got it all set up, it worked great. The mail downloaded just fine and I wanted to make sure it still worked in Thunderbird because I use the computer more. It downloaded in Thunderbird just fine but here's the problem. When I went back on the phone to see if the mail was in both places, Thunderbird blocked it. My phone had no email on there. It was wiped clean. This happens also when I download mail into Thunderbird and I go to my gmail account on the web you can't see the mail on google either if it's already in Thunderbird. Do any of you know why this keeps happening and is there anything simple I can do about it? Thanks in advance for any help.

Shelly









.


Re: windows 10 with jaws

Gene
 

The article discusses how ribbons are more consistent.  Despite claims Freedom Scientific makes, ribbons are consistent and properly accessible and the article discusses all that. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
 

I didn’t see it,

I’ve also found that while yes I can navigate stuff, figuring out which keys does what in every ribbon isn’t the easiest thing to do.

I still do not see a problem with using t the JAWS access r for the ribbon.

For me, it’s a matter of consistency which I think FS was trying to  a achieve in part.

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

The JAWS virtual menus are not a good way to work with ribbons.  See this discussion. 

https://blindtechnology.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/microsoft-ribbon-is-accessible/

Also, if you use them, since instructional material in general uses real ribbons, you are making it harder to use tutorials and other instructional material. 

 

Did you see the tutorial I sent earlier today?  To move through a ribbon efficiently requires knowledge of one or two commands for moving quickly through ribbons, which I explain, and memorizing combinations of letters that make up a command, equivalent to shortcut commands on a menu, such as alt f, a, that you use regularly.

 

It is a little less efficient to move through ribbons, even when using shortcut commands because shortcut commands usually require another letter or two or perhaps three.  But nonribbon commands, previously used in ribbon programs mostly still work such as control o for open, control r for reply, etc so this loss of efficiency is often not a problem because you still use all or almost all the most efficient control plus letter or number commands you used in the menu versions.  . 

 

But whenever people disable ribbons, my qquestion is, what will you loose access to and what will be harder to do?  I don’t know the answers because I don’t disable ribbons.  Others may want to discuss the question.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

 

I have jaws set to show the jaws ribbon.
I honestly do not find  ribbons as easy to  navigate and would prefer too disable them.
John


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws

I think one reason is that ribbons may not be clear in terms of how they are organized and how to work with them if you just come across them and have no good instruction.  That probably happened to a lot of people who had none or had some help from people who didn't understand them properly either.


The word from people who have such experiences spreads from them throughout the blind computer using community.


If there had been some sort of utopian way to send good help in the form
of explanations and demonstrations to all those in the blind Windows
computer using community as soon as ribbons were released, a lot of the
fear surrounding ribbons might have been preempted.


Gene
On 7/30/2021 3:28 PM, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> It's amazing to me that a word, one simple word can cause such angst,
> such fear, such unreasoning terror.  Ribbons are menus, pure and
> simple.  They may cause some difficulty for the sighted because they
> are horizontal and not vertical, but what is so terrifying about a
> menu?  You've been working with menus since you started using a
> computer.  Why aren't you terrified by menus? They're just the same as
> ribbons!  Ribbons are horizontal menus, that's all.  They have more
> data in them, but they're only menus, just menus.  ""Beware the
> Jabberwock, The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
> Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
> The frumious Bandersnatch!”
> ― Lewis Carroll,  Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There
>
> <smiling>
> Ann P.
>
>
>
>
> Original message:
>
>> Really there’s a ribene disabler?
>
>> What is that n and how odes it work?
>
>> Thanks,
>
>> John
>
>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
>> joanne
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 7:52 AM
>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
>
>> Marvin and all, thanks for your input and we will definitely be in
>> touch with those who let me know they're available to help. When I
>> get windows 10 it's a relief to know I can email my specific concerns
>> to someone who's used it.
>
>> I think the main problem my friend is having is what I am having
>> whenever I see a computer that has 10. He couldn't get regular list
>> views and, like many of us, didn't comprehend ribbons so I sent him a
>> ribbon disabler. What I wasn't aware of until now was the
>> comprehensive info we can get from Freedom Scientific. I will
>> certainly be making use of that and will let my friend know that help
>> from them is also available.
>
>> I realize there have been disagreements in the group about people's
>> comfort level and wanting to stick with certain things that they're
>> used to from other programs. That's why there are some work-arounds
>> like classic shell and other tools. I'm very glad many of you have
>> caught on to the strange setup of 10, but some of us--at least
>> starting out--want certain aspects to have at least some familiarity
>> to us. So I appreciate the great help that comes, and I also hope
>> that those who don't have trouble adjusting to 10 might try to
>> understand that some are in a different place and need some extra
>> help and ideas as we learn this operating system.
>
>> Joanne
>
>> From: Marvin Hunkin <mailto:startrektech@...>
>
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:08 AM
>
>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>
>> Subject: [TechTalk] windows 10 with jaws
>
>> h. if you want to e-mail me and tell me what problems or issues. Been
>> using windows 10 with jaws for about 7 years. A power user. So if I
>> can help. Did you try googling if windows 10 utube. Did you try the
>> freedom scientific training and then searching for windows 10.
>
>> Or what about the fs reader training about windows. That is for
>> windows 10.
>
>> If you need help.
>
>> Happy to help.
>
>> Ps: don’t know of any programs which will have a shell like windows 7.
>
>> Just learn to use windows 10.
>
>> Marvin.
>
>>
>









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