Date   

Re: Application Key.

Carlos
 

Typo, I meant function.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos" <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.


Fn is short for funtion.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.


My husband looked, and the key to the left of the left Control is a
Function key. Everything seems to work like it is supposed to, so I don't
understand why it's there, but I'm sure it serves some purpose. Jim just
looked it up, and evidently, it just gives more function to the F keys.


Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

It may be but when there is more than one key with the same name on a
keyboard, its position should always be specified. Since there are two
control keys, whether the left or right control is being referred to
should be specified.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:17 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net
<mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.


I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a
key
to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.


Best from,

Carolyn














Re: Application Key.

Carlos
 

Fn is short for funtion.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.


My husband looked, and the key to the left of the left Control is a
Function key. Everything seems to work like it is supposed to, so I don't
understand why it's there, but I'm sure it serves some purpose. Jim just
looked it up, and evidently, it just gives more function to the F keys.


Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

It may be but when there is more than one key with the same name on a
keyboard, its position should always be specified. Since there are two
control keys, whether the left or right control is being referred to
should be specified.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:17 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net
<mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.


I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a
key
to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.


Best from,

Carolyn












Re: Application Key.

Carolyn Arnold
 

My husband looked, and the key to the left of the left Control is a
Function key. Everything seems to work like it is supposed to, so I don't
understand why it's there, but I'm sure it serves some purpose. Jim just
looked it up, and evidently, it just gives more function to the F keys.


Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

It may be but when there is more than one key with the same name on a
keyboard, its position should always be specified. Since there are two
control keys, whether the left or right control is being referred to
should be specified.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:17 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net
<mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.


I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a
key
to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.


Best from,

Carolyn






Re: Application Key.

Quentin Christensen
 

For the most part, there isn't any difference - if you want to save a document, it doesn't matter which control key you use when you press control+s.

One of the most common ones I can think of is left alt+left shift+printscreen to put Windows in high contrast mode which won't work if you use the right alt or shift keys.

The original and main reason there are two of most of the modifier keys is for touch typing - if you want a capital letter for instance, if it's a letter you type with your left hand (eg A or Q), it's easier to use your right little finger to press control while you press the letter with your left hand - and vice versa for typing a capital P or L.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

I did not know that there is any difference between using  the left or right modifier key; i.e.; control, windows, alt, shift.

If there is,  howand when does it apply?

 

Thanks,

Monte  an

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: May-15-16 5:53 PM


To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be but when there is more than one key with the same name on a keyboard, its position should always be specified.  Since there are two control keys, whether the left or right control is being referred to should be specified. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:17 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.


>I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a key
> to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.
>
>
> Best from,
>
> Carolyn
>
>
>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Application Key.

Gene
 

I'm not sure if there is ever a difference but my point is that when you say there is a key to the left of control the question is, which control. 
 
gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

I did not know that there is any difference between using  the left or right modifier key; i.e.; control, windows, alt, shift.

If there is,  howand when does it apply?

 

Thanks,

Monte  an

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: May-15-16 5:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be but when there is more than one key with the same name on a keyboard, its position should always be specified.  Since there are two control keys, whether the left or right control is being referred to should be specified. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:17 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.


>I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a key
> to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.
>
>
> Best from,
>
> Carolyn
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Desktop/Laptop.

Carolyn Arnold
 

There were some commands, but, as you say, why bother. JAWS seems to work
better in spread sheets and some things with the Desktop configuration.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:47 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

I don't know if there are any advantages in using the laptop layout on
the desktop. Unless you can be given concrete examples of advantages, I
wouldn't bother. As far as making the caps lock work, probably pressing
it twice rapidly will turn it off and on.

I'm not sure and I'd have to experiment to see about this, but it may be
that using the laptop layout in JAWS allows the numpad desktop commands
to still function so you would have more ways of doing the same thing.
But if you like the desktop way of doing them and there is no advantage
in having access to other ways, why bother.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carolyn Arnold <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

A mention was made of advantages to the Laptop Configuration. I tried it,
but here is what I did not like. Maybe some of you can correct me or let
me know how to work around that.

One thing that I did not like was that I could not make Shift Lock to
work when I wanted to write characters in all caps.

Another thing that I did not like is that JAWS did not seem to work as
well, for instance if I tried to Arrow through text to see what it said.
An expert is helping me on a form, and I mentioned that on our last one,
JAWS did not read it as well, but now, I see why that was.


Best from,

Carolyn


Re: Application Key.

Carolyn Arnold
 

Thanks, and thanks to all of you on the lists who have shown me so many things, things I never would have learned otherwise.

Now that my friend is getting a computer, I have encouraged her to join the list. I hope she does. She is a retired medical transcriptionist, but has not used a computer for several years.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:41 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

As Carlos said, it's probably an Fn Key if it's on your laptop. The Fn key is usually used with other keys to do things for which you don't have a dedicated key on the laptop - eg change the volume or the screen brightness, or toggle the right half of the letters as a number pad if your laptop doesn't have a dedicated number pad (there are a few Fn key combinations that seem to be fairly common but no real standard to say press FN and this to do that unless we were both working from the same model laptop).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> > wrote:


It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.




I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a key
to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.


Best from,

Carolyn















--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Desktop in alphabetical order.

Gene
 

Thanks.  it may be in part because I've been interested in effective ways of teaching for years and have looked at and evaluated, for my own curiosity, some instructional materials.  I have also done a tutorial and for Accessible World, I've done many presentations.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

LOL I'm glad you're around to think through the potential ramifications of suboptimal solutions.  I can be lazy sometimes so often I will simply respond with the requested information without really considering whether it is the best answer.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

I'm not sure why she was having trouble finding things on the desktop.  Without more information, I can provide information that may be helpful but we'll see..
 
Her problem might not be solved by changing the organization.  I don't know how the desktop is organized in Windows 10.  In Windows 7 and Xp, the only way to go through the desktop and see every item is the following:
While on the desktop, press home.  Down arrow to the end of the first list of items.
Then press home to move to the top.  Right arrow once.
Down arrow through the second list.
Then press home again.
Right arrow two times and down arrow through the third list.  You can't just start at the top and down arrow through all items.  When asking for help, the actual problem should be presented whether you ask for a specific solution or not.  If it isn't, those answering have no way of knowing if the solution being asked for solves the problem.  Often if people ask for a solution without presenting the problem, the solution they ask for either doesn't apply or is not the best one. 
 
In this case, the solution being asked for, changing the order of icons, may have no relevance to the problem.
 
gene 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

She is using Windows 10 updated from 7. She got one from the organization
in Garland, Texas. She does know first-letter navigation, which will work
for her, but she was having a hard time finding out what was where on the
Desktop. She is using NVDA, has been a JAWS user, but without a computer
for maybe seven years. I was surprised, when she called, that she was
doing as much as she was in a short time.

Thanks.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

It sounds as though your friend doesn't know how to use first letter
navigation.  Rather than fool around changing the order of the desktop,
just type the first letter or two of what you are looking for.  When I
see such messages, I immediately question whether the person asking knows
ways to navigate structures such as lists and menus efficiently.  it is
really not efficient to down arrow through a list of desktop items, no
matter how they are arranged.
 
I believe that having icons aranged by name will alphabetize them and I
can tell you how this is done or someone else can.  But whether the
person knows and uses first letter navigation may be a more important
matter.
 
Also, I'm not sure if the procedure varies depending on the version of
Windows used.  What version is the person using?
 
Gene


From: Carolyn Arnold <mailto:4carolyna@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 5:16 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

I have a friend just getting a computer. She has been without for a long
time and might join the list. Anyway, I told her I'd ask if anyone knows
the command to put the Desktop in alphabetical order. Thanks.
Best from,

Carolyn











Re: Application Key.

Carlos
 

In most cases it makes no difference, but it is possible for some software to distinguish between the left/right pairs which may be useful with certain hotkey utilities or programs that allow you to customize keyboard shortcuts.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

I did not know that there is any difference between using  the left or right modifier key; i.e.; control, windows, alt, shift.

If there is,  howand when does it apply?

 

Thanks,

Monte  an

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: May-15-16 5:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be but when there is more than one key with the same name on a keyboard, its position should always be specified.  Since there are two control keys, whether the left or right control is being referred to should be specified. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:17 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.


>I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a key
> to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.
>
>
> Best from,
>
> Carolyn
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Desktop/Laptop.

Carolyn Arnold
 

Oh, thanks. Then, the main draw back that I experienced is that JAWS did
not respond when I arrowed, at least it did not as I am accustomed to it
doing. Thanks for clearing that up about the Shift Lock.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Carlos
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:17 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

If you are using the laptop keyboard layout, you can turn on CapsLock by
pressing it twice quickly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:12 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.


A mention was made of advantages to the Laptop Configuration. I tried
it, but here is what I did not like. Maybe some of you can correct me
or let me know how to work around that.

One thing that I did not like was that I could not make Shift Lock to
work when I wanted to write characters in all caps.

Another thing that I did not like is that JAWS did not seem to work as
well, for instance if I tried to Arrow through text to see what it
said.
An expert is helping me on a form, and I mentioned that on our last
one, JAWS did not read it as well, but now, I see why that was.


Best from,

Carolyn






Re: Application Key.

Carlos
 

That is because the Fn key is hard coded so it cannot be easily detected. The Fn key combinations themselves however can be detected since they generate scan codes which correspond to standardized expanded/media functions in most cases.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin.christensen@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.


NVDA's input help will announce modifier keys like control, alt,
windows and shift. It doesn't announce the Fn key itself, but if you
press Fn and another key, it will (usually) announce what that
combination does. For instance on my Dell laptop it announce Fn+F11
decreases volume and Fn+F12 increases volume.

NVDA's keyboard help works very similarly to Jaws - press Insert+1 to
turn it on or off if you're using Insert as your NVDA modifier key or
Caps lock+1 if you're using Caps lock.

NVDA's keyboard options also contain a checkbox to "Speak command
keys" which will always read control, alt etc as you press them, even
without input help on.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
22 Point

Web: http://www.22point.com.au
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/22Point
Twitter: https://twitter.com/22PointApps

Check out our first app, RapiTap! - Tap targets fast & avoid decoys:
Adrenaline pumping, Challenging, Accessible!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.com.twentytwopoint.rapitap
Free trial: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.com.twentytwopoint.rapitapfree


On 16 May 2016 at 10:00, Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Although I just remembered Keyboard Help also does not announce modifier
keys like Control, Shift, and Alt so the fact that it is not spoken may not
necessarily tell you much.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

Keyboard help will not announce the Fn key, but that in itself will probably
tell you whether it is an Fn key.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

What happens when you turn keyboard help on, insert 1 on the main keyboard
and press the key? You can then turn keyboard help off with the same
command, insert 1. You can use either insert, at least when using the
desktop layout.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.

I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a key
to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.


Best from,

Carolyn






Re: Application Key.

Monte Single
 

I did not know that there is any difference between using  the left or right modifier key; i.e.; control, windows, alt, shift.

If there is,  howand when does it apply?

 

Thanks,

Monte  an

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: May-15-16 5:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be but when there is more than one key with the same name on a keyboard, its position should always be specified.  Since there are two control keys, whether the left or right control is being referred to should be specified. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:17 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

 

It may be an Fn key.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.


>I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a key
> to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.
>
>
> Best from,
>
> Carolyn
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Desktop in alphabetical order.

Carlos
 

LOL I'm glad you're around to think through the potential ramifications of suboptimal solutions.  I can be lazy sometimes so often I will simply respond with the requested information without really considering whether it is the best answer.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

I'm not sure why she was having trouble finding things on the desktop.  Without more information, I can provide information that may be helpful but we'll see..
 
Her problem might not be solved by changing the organization.  I don't know how the desktop is organized in Windows 10.  In Windows 7 and Xp, the only way to go through the desktop and see every item is the following:
While on the desktop, press home.  Down arrow to the end of the first list of items.
Then press home to move to the top.  Right arrow once.
Down arrow through the second list.
Then press home again.
Right arrow two times and down arrow through the third list.  You can't just start at the top and down arrow through all items.  When asking for help, the actual problem should be presented whether you ask for a specific solution or not.  If it isn't, those answering have no way of knowing if the solution being asked for solves the problem.  Often if people ask for a solution without presenting the problem, the solution they ask for either doesn't apply or is not the best one. 
 
In this case, the solution being asked for, changing the order of icons, may have no relevance to the problem.
 
gene 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

She is using Windows 10 updated from 7. She got one from the organization
in Garland, Texas. She does know first-letter navigation, which will work
for her, but she was having a hard time finding out what was where on the
Desktop. She is using NVDA, has been a JAWS user, but without a computer
for maybe seven years. I was surprised, when she called, that she was
doing as much as she was in a short time.

Thanks.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

It sounds as though your friend doesn't know how to use first letter
navigation.  Rather than fool around changing the order of the desktop,
just type the first letter or two of what you are looking for.  When I
see such messages, I immediately question whether the person asking knows
ways to navigate structures such as lists and menus efficiently.  it is
really not efficient to down arrow through a list of desktop items, no
matter how they are arranged.
 
I believe that having icons aranged by name will alphabetize them and I
can tell you how this is done or someone else can.  But whether the
person knows and uses first letter navigation may be a more important
matter.
 
Also, I'm not sure if the procedure varies depending on the version of
Windows used.  What version is the person using?
 
Gene


From: Carolyn Arnold <mailto:4carolyna@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 5:16 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

I have a friend just getting a computer. She has been without for a long
time and might join the list. Anyway, I told her I'd ask if anyone knows
the command to put the Desktop in alphabetical order. Thanks.
Best from,

Carolyn











Re: Desktop/Laptop.

Marie <magpie.mn@...>
 

There is not a huge difference in the desktop and laptop layout. However, I find that having the Caps lock key act as a Jaws key is very handy and faster than moving over to the num pad.
M
 
 

From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.
 
That may be but I don't think those are Caroline's circumstances.  I can see where, if someone perhaps had certain coordination problems and it would be easier to execute the read to end command with two hands, for example, that the laptop layout might be helpful.  But for someone with a full desktop keyboard and no coordination or movement problems, I question any general advice to use the laptop layout. 
 
gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.
 
Yes, the shortcuts for the desktop layout still work even when the laptop layout is selected.  One particular reason for enabling the laptop keyboard layout on a desktop is when using certain wireless keyboards.  Many smaller wireless keyboards may not have a numeric keypad and have similar layouts to laptop keyboards.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.
 
I don't know if there are any advantages in using the laptop layout on the desktop.  Unless you can be given concrete examples of advantages, I wouldn't bother.  As far as making the caps lock work, probably pressing it twice rapidly will turn it off and on. 
 
I'm not sure and I'd have to experiment to see about this, but it may be that using the laptop layout in JAWS allows the numpad desktop commands to still function so you would have more ways of doing the same thing.  But if you like the desktop way of doing them and there is no advantage in having access to other ways, why bother.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:12 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.
 
A mention was made of advantages to the Laptop Configuration. I tried it,
but here is what I did not like. Maybe some of you can correct me or let
me know how to work around that.

One thing that I did not like was that I could not make Shift Lock to
work when I wanted to write characters in all caps.

Another thing that I did not like is that JAWS did not seem to work as
well, for instance if I tried to Arrow through text to see what it said.
An expert is helping me on a form, and I mentioned that on our last one,
JAWS did not read it as well, but now, I see why that was.


Best from,

Carolyn






Re: Application Key.

Quentin Christensen
 

NVDA's input help will announce modifier keys like control, alt,
windows and shift. It doesn't announce the Fn key itself, but if you
press Fn and another key, it will (usually) announce what that
combination does. For instance on my Dell laptop it announce Fn+F11
decreases volume and Fn+F12 increases volume.

NVDA's keyboard help works very similarly to Jaws - press Insert+1 to
turn it on or off if you're using Insert as your NVDA modifier key or
Caps lock+1 if you're using Caps lock.

NVDA's keyboard options also contain a checkbox to "Speak command
keys" which will always read control, alt etc as you press them, even
without input help on.

Kind regards

Quentin.

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On 16 May 2016 at 10:00, Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Although I just remembered Keyboard Help also does not announce modifier
keys like Control, Shift, and Alt so the fact that it is not spoken may not
necessarily tell you much.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

Keyboard help will not announce the Fn key, but that in itself will probably
tell you whether it is an Fn key.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Application Key.

What happens when you turn keyboard help on, insert 1 on the main keyboard
and press the key? You can then turn keyboard help off with the same
command, insert 1. You can use either insert, at least when using the
desktop layout.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Application Key.

I made a mistake about that. The keys are here. It is that there is a key
to the left of Control that I do not know the reason for.


Best from,

Carolyn






Re: Desktop in alphabetical order.

Gene
 

I'm not sure why she was having trouble finding things on the desktop.  Without more information, I can provide information that may be helpful but we'll see..
 
Her problem might not be solved by changing the organization.  I don't know how the desktop is organized in Windows 10.  In Windows 7 and Xp, the only way to go through the desktop and see every item is the following:
While on the desktop, press home.  Down arrow to the end of the first list of items.
Then press home to move to the top.  Right arrow once.
Down arrow through the second list.
Then press home again.
Right arrow two times and down arrow through the third list.  You can't just start at the top and down arrow through all items.  When asking for help, the actual problem should be presented whether you ask for a specific solution or not.  If it isn't, those answering have no way of knowing if the solution being asked for solves the problem.  Often if people ask for a solution without presenting the problem, the solution they ask for either doesn't apply or is not the best one. 
 
In this case, the solution being asked for, changing the order of icons, may have no relevance to the problem.
 
gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

She is using Windows 10 updated from 7. She got one from the organization
in Garland, Texas. She does know first-letter navigation, which will work
for her, but she was having a hard time finding out what was where on the
Desktop. She is using NVDA, has been a JAWS user, but without a computer
for maybe seven years. I was surprised, when she called, that she was
doing as much as she was in a short time.

Thanks.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

It sounds as though your friend doesn't know how to use first letter
navigation.  Rather than fool around changing the order of the desktop,
just type the first letter or two of what you are looking for.  When I
see such messages, I immediately question whether the person asking knows
ways to navigate structures such as lists and menus efficiently.  it is
really not efficient to down arrow through a list of desktop items, no
matter how they are arranged.
 
I believe that having icons aranged by name will alphabetize them and I
can tell you how this is done or someone else can.  But whether the
person knows and uses first letter navigation may be a more important
matter.
 
Also, I'm not sure if the procedure varies depending on the version of
Windows used.  What version is the person using?
 
Gene


From: Carolyn Arnold <mailto:4carolyna@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 5:16 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop in alphabetical order.

I have a friend just getting a computer. She has been without for a long
time and might join the list. Anyway, I told her I'd ask if anyone knows
the command to put the Desktop in alphabetical order. Thanks.
Best from,

Carolyn











Re: Desktop/Laptop.

Matt
 

And you also have the cap lock key used as well as the num pad and the 6pack for the jaws key or NVDA key and don’t know about WE but sure this might apply to that screen reader as well.

I don’t have problems with hand coordination at all and I still find the laptop lay out very useful.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

 

That may be but I don't think those are Caroline's circumstances.  I can see where, if someone perhaps had certain coordination problems and it would be easier to execute the read to end command with two hands, for example, that the laptop layout might be helpful.  But for someone with a full desktop keyboardand no coordination or movement problems, I question any general advice to use the laptop layout. 

 

gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:52 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

 

Yes, the shortcuts for the desktop layout still work even when the laptop layout is selected.  One particular reason for enabling the laptop keyboard layout on a desktop is when using certain wireless keyboards.  Many smaller wireless keyboards may not have a numeric keypad and have similar layouts to laptop keyboards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:47 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

 

I don't know if there are any advantages in using the laptop layout on the desktop.  Unless you can be given concrete examples of advantages, I wouldn't bother.  As far as making the caps lock work, probably pressing it twice rapidly will turn it off and on. 

 

I'm not sure and I'd have to experiment to see about this, but it may be that using the laptop layout in JAWS allows the numpad desktop commands to still function so you would have more ways of doing the same thing.  But if you like the desktop way of doing them and there is no advantage in having access to other ways, why bother.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:12 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

 

A mention was made of advantages to the Laptop Configuration. I tried it,
but here is what I did not like. Maybe some of you can correct me or let
me know how to work around that.

One thing that I did not like was that I could not make Shift Lock to
work when I wanted to write characters in all caps.

Another thing that I did not like is that JAWS did not seem to work as
well, for instance if I tried to Arrow through text to see what it said.
An expert is helping me on a form, and I mentioned that on our last one,
JAWS did not read it as well, but now, I see why that was.


Best from,

Carolyn





Re: Desktop/Laptop.

Carlos
 

I wouldn't specifically advise for or against using the laptop keyboard layout on a desktop, but since it does not disable the desktop layout shortcuts, I also don't really see any disadvantage in doing so.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

That may be but I don't think those are Caroline's circumstances.  I can see where, if someone perhaps had certain coordination problems and it would be easier to execute the read to end command with two hands, for example, that the laptop layout might be helpful.  But for someone with a full desktop keyboardand no coordination or movement problems, I question any general advice to use the laptop layout. 
 
gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

Yes, the shortcuts for the desktop layout still work even when the laptop layout is selected.  One particular reason for enabling the laptop keyboard layout on a desktop is when using certain wireless keyboards.  Many smaller wireless keyboards may not have a numeric keypad and have similar layouts to laptop keyboards.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

I don't know if there are any advantages in using the laptop layout on the desktop.  Unless you can be given concrete examples of advantages, I wouldn't bother.  As far as making the caps lock work, probably pressing it twice rapidly will turn it off and on. 
 
I'm not sure and I'd have to experiment to see about this, but it may be that using the laptop layout in JAWS allows the numpad desktop commands to still function so you would have more ways of doing the same thing.  But if you like the desktop way of doing them and there is no advantage in having access to other ways, why bother.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:12 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

A mention was made of advantages to the Laptop Configuration. I tried it,
but here is what I did not like. Maybe some of you can correct me or let
me know how to work around that.

One thing that I did not like was that I could not make Shift Lock to
work when I wanted to write characters in all caps.

Another thing that I did not like is that JAWS did not seem to work as
well, for instance if I tried to Arrow through text to see what it said.
An expert is helping me on a form, and I mentioned that on our last one,
JAWS did not read it as well, but now, I see why that was.


Best from,

Carolyn






Re: avira antivirus

Matt
 

A online virus scanner does not install on your PC!


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Amy Gordon
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] avira antivirus

Didn't think you can have more than one antivirus active on a computer?

On 5/15/16, Matt <matt.from.florida@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes I do in fact use several online scanners in conjunction with MSE!
But I would do this no matter what anti-virus I used!





<mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com> Matt.from.florida@gmail.com



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] avira antivirus



But it is more likely that you will be infected if you use a less
effective program. How much more or less likely it is depends
somewhat on your other precautions but it will still be more likely.



And how do you know you haven't been infected? Do you check with
something else such as an online scanner to see if you are infected
and it hasn't been detected?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 5:58 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] avira antivirus



Well just because you ended up with virus does not mean a nether
anti-virus is going to be any better! As they all have their faults
and not perfect! I have had MSE for years and never had a problem with
it ! I do keep it up to date! I also use very good security practice
like using a popup blocker and using smart filter in IE and have my
browser to accept only cookies that is session cookies, As well as do
not run myself as admin! Also use Ctrl plus Alt plus delete to sign on
to the computer as well as use mile ware bites to scan my PC and I do
not just open up any link or an attachment! I usually save my
attachments and then scan them with MSE and Mile ware bites ! There is
much more to keeping your PC safe then just running a anti-virus! If you put all your hope in that then you will continue to get infected!


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Amy Gordon
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] avira antivirus

I was useing microsoft security essentials but ended up with viruses
so trying to find something better. My computer repair person suggested avira.
Was going to pay for subscription if it was accessable.

On 5/15/16, Byron Stephens <bstephens122874@shaw.ca> wrote:
I use AVG free, and that is quite accessible.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amy Gordon" <asg1241@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] avira antivirus


Think I have figured some things out about it. What wasn't ver
accessable about it? Also what antivirus do you use that is
accessable?

On 5/15/16, Byron Stephens <bstephens122874@shaw.ca> wrote:
I tried that, and it's not very accessible at all.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amy Gordon" <asg1241@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 1:50 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] avira antivirus


Was wondering if anyone uses avira antivirus. I downloaded the
free version but not sure how to use it. It comes up with avira
launcher not sure what to do from there to know if it is up to date.





-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7539 / Virus Database: 4568/12236 - Release Date:
05/15/16







-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7539 / Virus Database: 4568/12236 - Release Date:
05/15/16













Re: Desktop/Laptop.

Gene
 

That may be but I don't think those are Caroline's circumstances.  I can see where, if someone perhaps had certain coordination problems and it would be easier to execute the read to end command with two hands, for example, that the laptop layout might be helpful.  But for someone with a full desktop keyboardand no coordination or movement problems, I question any general advice to use the laptop layout. 
 
gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

Yes, the shortcuts for the desktop layout still work even when the laptop layout is selected.  One particular reason for enabling the laptop keyboard layout on a desktop is when using certain wireless keyboards.  Many smaller wireless keyboards may not have a numeric keypad and have similar layouts to laptop keyboards.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

I don't know if there are any advantages in using the laptop layout on the desktop.  Unless you can be given concrete examples of advantages, I wouldn't bother.  As far as making the caps lock work, probably pressing it twice rapidly will turn it off and on. 
 
I'm not sure and I'd have to experiment to see about this, but it may be that using the laptop layout in JAWS allows the numpad desktop commands to still function so you would have more ways of doing the same thing.  But if you like the desktop way of doing them and there is no advantage in having access to other ways, why bother.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:12 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Desktop/Laptop.

A mention was made of advantages to the Laptop Configuration. I tried it,
but here is what I did not like. Maybe some of you can correct me or let
me know how to work around that.

One thing that I did not like was that I could not make Shift Lock to
work when I wanted to write characters in all caps.

Another thing that I did not like is that JAWS did not seem to work as
well, for instance if I tried to Arrow through text to see what it said.
An expert is helping me on a form, and I mentioned that on our last one,
JAWS did not read it as well, but now, I see why that was.


Best from,

Carolyn





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