Date   

Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Aidan <aidan.smarttalk@...>
 

I must agree with jean and carlos here. As long as we as blind people
keep making excuses for microsoft then we should not be surprise where
it goes. Its not exceptable what they are doing for the last few
years, and nothing they say will change my attidute towards them. Now
its time for practise, to show us what they really can do. Its easy to
talk. There are many developers asking for feedback and doing nothing
about it wich prove that feedback alone is no way to be sure if the
product will improve. Microsoft does not care about accessibility and
I keep to that statement until they prove me wrong. These smaller
changes we see now is just to keep us in a so called more happyer zone
because they know there are people like rj wich will buy into that
nonsense. And why can we not complain? We have every write to
complain. Accessibility is a rite, and we shall keep enforcing and
demanding it. Yes your attitude must be write but in this case ms is
more than aware of the reality of the situation. They know they are
guilty but they won't admit it to the public. To keep saying things
like "at least they will do something" is a waste of time and it bring
us no where. Either they deliver or the other screenreaders get
stronger. And why shall I use the simpel ej browser anyway if firefox
and chrome work so well?

On 02/07/2016, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
I didn't say that other screen readers would just disappear, but I believe
that third-party developers might have less incentive to invest much time
and effort in serious development if a full-blown screen reader were
built-in. The screen reader market already has a limited margin for profit

and Microsoft would always have the edge in terms of adding new features if

they became seriously invested in Narrator. Consumers might also have less

incentive to purchase third-party screen readers if most of the
functionality they need were already included in Windows. Windows is not
Android. The alternatives are either very expensive or free in the case of

NVDA. In the case of more expensive screen readers, consumers would almost

always choose the fully functional option that is built-in and does not cost

nearly $1000. Organizations which provide sponsorship for obtaining
computers would also have less reason to purchase screen readers like JAWS.

Of course some people might think this is a good thing, but if sales of JAWS

were to drop significantly, eventually it might make continuing to produce
the product unviable which in turn means fewer options. It is hard to say
whether NVDA would be affected, but the development of NVDA is supported
partially by donations and partially by the motivation of the developers,
either of which could potentially be affected by the inclusion of a
full-blown screen reader in Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10

Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Hi Carlos,
I deleted your original post, but, know how you're saying Mac? To
my knowledge, talkBack is built into android, yet, there's
another one called ShinePlus. I wonder, if, say, MS made a fully
built in screen reader, as long as windows was opened, I can't
see why something like would NVDA died. Apple is different, as
their system is not opened.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:11:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

No it wouldn't. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
Whether Narrator becomes a full-blown screen reader some day, it
has a
long
way to go. And in my opinion, making Narrator a full-blown
screen reader
would only stifle development for the competition. It is good
to have
options and Macs are a good example of what happens when a
full-blown
screen
reader is built-in to the operating system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


I am not usually one to use this type of strong language, but
really?
How do you think NVDA and Jaws got to where they are? Feedback!
Let's
all give narrator a chance. Microsoft alone won't make the
screenreader,
but together, the end users,(Us the blind community) will make
Narrator
a screenreader which could even beat out voice over if we really
wanted
it bad enough. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:19 PM, Marie wrote:
I find Narrator useful on occasion, but it is far from being a
full
screen reader and I would hate it if they made it like the Apple
devices where it is your only choice.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

If they are going somewhere with Narrator, then they should
simply
release a
major upgrade when it is ready to be used as a full-blown screen
reader. At
this point it is wasted effort to introduce these minor changes
since
it is
still not functional enough to be used by most on a daily basis.
Gradually
introducing features that most people probably won't use because
there
is a
better free alternative seems like effort that could be more
productively
invested somewhere else for now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Yeah, but they might be going somewhere with it which we don't
know
about
just yet. Some of the features discussed in the article seem as
though
they
may have been influenced by general screen reader tech.

They might first want to start with the Windows OS then
ultimately
create a
VoiceOver competitor for future Windows devices.

With technology advancing as it does, why not accept the help
from
one of
the biggest computer software developers in the world?
Furthermore,
this
development might yield discoveries which will help with other
related
disabilities experienced by an aging population.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io]
On
Behalf Of
Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and
somewhat
excessive in my opinion. How many people really use Narrator on
a
daily
basis? The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an
emergency
or to
finish setting up Windows. It is useful and convenient to have,
but
for
most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a
primary
screen
reader. These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive
screen
readers will most likely use NVDA. And Narrator has a long way
to go
before
it can compete with NVDA. That being the case, I believe their
time
and
effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other
areas. If
NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might
seem
more
significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems
like
wasted
effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved
it.
I will
not defend them in their accessibility implementation of
accessibility in
Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below





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Re: FS podcast

Flor Lynch
 

I actually know that there have been at least a fair amount of defections to NVDA from JAWS. How can you expect Jonathan Mosen to dispraise an FS/VFO product, as they are still paying him in fees? (Consultants always tell their customers what they think their customers want to know, which may (or may not) be what the customers actually want to know.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 11:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] FS podcast


But now that the parent company of Freedom Scientific and AI Squared owns
both JAWS and Window Eyes and thus has a virtual monopoly in the commercial
screen reader market, what incentive do they have to offer deeply discounted
prices to everyone? They have lucrative contracts with government and blind
rehab agencies that guarantee them a steady income stream, so why should
they care whether or not you can afford their products? And they have
Jonathan Mosen in their back pocket to hawk their products. Of course, he
pays nothing for JAWS or Open Book or any other FS product unlike the rest
of us in exchange for promoting them. In all the years I have been
listening to FSCasts, he has never uttered a negative comment about any FS
product, even though he is now an independent contractor and no longer works
directly for them. You would think that there is so much discontent over
FS's unfair pricing policies that there would be mass defections to NVDA,
but of course, this hasn't happened because for all of its faults, JAWS is
still the best screen reader on the market.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:35 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] FS podcast

I would say different if they sold enough they would make money it might not
be at 75 bucks but it might be at a couple of hundred. . their profit margin
I sure is triple or more on the products. So they could sell to everyone for
some kind of discount. They could sell say 75 bucks for convention goers and
say 175 bucks for non goers. As the one going they could write this off
taxes as advertisement .Also here again they would be making in the long run
money off the SMA which is really just selling the product at a discounted
price instead of making you buy it at full price for the next version. This
is really all SMA is discounted price off the next version. SJMT



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Lynn White
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] FS podcast

Maybe it's just a simply fact that Freedom Scientific is helping to promote
people to go to conventions.


It promotes good will and gets people involved. If they sold to every
blind person the discounted price, they wouldn't make any kind of money
at all.


You would then have another screen reader possibly to fall by the wayside.


On 7/1/2016 11:48 PM, Matt wrote:
So if they are paying for the space then that would be even a another
reason
not to give the discount at all . but I sure them paying for the booth at
the convention would come under advertisement and is taking off taxes.
This
still don't explain why not offer this to everyone not just convention
goers. Like the Blind Bargains (A T Guys) they have a booth and they have
sells as well but it is not limited to just convention goers . To me it
would make sense to offer it to everyone and they would come out in the
long
run plus help a lot of people. The reason is that in the long run more
than
likely they would get the people that is buying it would keep the SMA up .
which they make good money off them the SMA itself. Which is a lot better
than it used to be since they lower the price on SMA Two years for 125
bucks
is very good and the SMA is on sale at the convention as well but it is
only
for convention goers. Too me it just don't make sense as they would be
more
than likely in the long run making money . In fact at 75 bucks I bet they
are still making money as they hope to sell enough they will make money.
I
just cannot help it I seem to have a problem with this.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf
Of
Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:07 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] FS podcast

Plus, the vendors at the conventions have to pay or the space that they
have
there.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 4:40 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] FS podcast

Well this talks all about convention time. They have some really good
deals
but the thing is it is only for those that goes to the convention. I
personally think this is just so wrong! Why can they not offer this to
everyone!? Like Jaws is just 75 bucks but you have to go to the convention
and be registered. Why not just offer this to all the blind community? To
me
this just don't seem exactly right! I might be wrong but it should be
offered to anyone who wants it! or any of the products they are selling at
a
discount. You know not everyone can afford or even get to these places.
But
here is the podcast below.



FS podcast 128
<http://podcast.freedomscientific.com/FSCast/episodes/FSCast
128-Conference_Specials,MathML,Mike_Wood.mp3>



http://podcast.freedomscientific.com/FSCast/episodes/FSCast1
28-Conference_Specials,MathML,Mike_Wood.mp3







Matt.from.florida@...
<mailto:Matt.from.florida@...>














Re: Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Rob <captinlogic@...>
 

Matt <matt.from.florida@...> wrote:
Most of the people using a scope is
visuall no matter what kind of scope it is . So don't know if audio tone
would be in the mix ever.
As I recall it, Stinger anti aircraft missiles (which are handheld) emit a tone when they are locking onto a target. Beep, beep, beep, then a long steady beep once target is locked on. Seems logical that they could do something similar for rifles.
The trick would be making sure you're not shooting at something in blaze orange.


Re: Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident #article

Pamela Dominguez
 

Yes, that's what I meant, also. You actually have to do something. You can't just have the gun go off. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action revolver unless the
hammer is cocked back in to the firing position. You never cock the gun
unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety because the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be almost impossible
to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the safety is not to
pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently trigger it in my
pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but you don't take pepper
spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a baseball bat fight. If you
did you would be on the losing end of the fight for sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box! Pepper spray is one
of them. But it should not be the only thing. You should have a knife ,
stun gun or Taser and a gun for sure a good old fashion hickory cane with a
good hook to it that is very pointed at the end of the hook is good or asord
cane is good. But a water gun is not much good unless you have something
besides water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of pepper spray myself,
too. I have worries about guns myself, but the good old pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this drivel. I know one
of these so-called "blind extremists" who carries a gun and he carries it
for protection only. The times he has shot it in public was because he was
being threatened by four sighted extremist thugs also known as criminals,
who were threatening to not only rob him but cause him physical harm. He
took out his gun and shot once, straight up into the air. Yes, the
extremist thugs quickly ran away in fright and I hope they also needed to do
some laundry quickly afterward.
Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't been legally
carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my time with telling you that
as you're not for the individual and his rights but for some other agenda
instead. BTW there are more deaths due to automobile accidents than there
are due to shootings so this brings it back around to your glass half full
attitude aimed at self-driving cars which have caused how many deaths so
far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some blind extremists allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their constitutional right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's bad enough that
terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and own firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed up mess that has
become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And if the lawmakers were
so determined to put a halt to any technology that is not 100% safe and
foolproof, there are many types of technology we would not have access to
in modern society. If the lawmakers in Washington care so much about
keeping dangerous technology out of the hands of the blind, then why are
there several blind individuals who are still being allowed to legally own
firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100% foolproof is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and elsewhere won't see it that
way. They will demand that self-driving vehicles be made as close to 100%
foolproof as possible before they consider enacting legislation that would
allow blind drivers to operate them without the accompaniment of a sighted
driver. That's just the realities of politics in a predominantly sighted
world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage these types of cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a difference between
soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned, the other issue here is this
ridiculous assumption that somehow the technology should be or ever can be
made 100% safe and foolproof. That is just nonsense and trying to predict
the future of the technology based on one accident or even several is just
more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a half empty blass
but a half full one. But in some cases this is just not possible. I have
to agree with him on this Gerald . It is also not just the US legislature
but from state to state. Just like all driving laws vary from state to
state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will more than likely
implement it on law on driving driverless cars. I also think they would
require very special training even for the sited but certainly for the blind
person as well! I just don't see the blind being able to do this in my life
time and I hope to be here around another 30 years. I am coming up on my
58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The bottom line is that
it will be a very long time, if ever, before blind consumers are allowed to
operate one of these gizmos by themselves. One fatal accident is still one
fatal accident too many. These vehicles must be made 100% safe and
foolproof before the powers that be in Washington will let blind drivers
behind the wheel without the accompaniment of a sighted driver in the
passenger's seat. Sorry to throw water on your parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of reasons why this
could have happened. It is likely these multiple car manufacturers are
using different gPS databases and supporting software, as well as other yet
to be determined reasons, so what happened here may not happen to other
researchers who are using more developed databases--the results depend on
lots of variables. The Google car has not had this type of history, and the
single accident it had was due to a human disabling the computer and taking
over the driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you might consider solutions
which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one of those newfangled
self-driving cars that may some day revolutionize the lives of us blind
consumers, not so fast. The race to develop a safe and reliable
self-driving vehicle suffered a major setback recently when a Tesla
all-electric self-driving car was involved in a fatal accident that killed
the driver while it was operating in self-driving mode. I guess it's back
to the drawing board:


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesla-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































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Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
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Re: all about guns and safety was Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

Hello, thanks, thought that that was the case.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos" <carlos1106@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:51:02 -0400
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Clocks, recorders and hearing aids are all technology.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident


Hi,
Actually, since a recorder is operated by buttons, and some sort of an
under lining file system, I consider those to be technology.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are technical. All computers are technical, but not all
technical equipment is a computer. Now that is being very
objective from me, since anyone who knows me well knows my
viewpoint on guns. However, that viewpoint is not shared by
everyone, and I am not so dogmatic to say that only one idea
is correct. I just point out, that it would seem that guns,
while not computers, are technical. Clocks, recorders and
hearing aids are not, but we have discussed them at length.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:52 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi Carlos,

In hopes of not stepping on toes, I think you might want to
define what is meant by technology as it relates to this
list. I don't think most would consider guns technology in
terms of the scope of blind members wanting to know about
computer sciences and general computing. As is, it appears
that just about anything can be considered technology is one
thinks about it.
Would the study of ants be considered technology if an
electronic device is used to watch them at work? Would
Woman's make-up be on topic on this list if someone twists
him or herself in pretzels to box up a question using a
technology slant? I think most list members consider
computers and all they do for us as on topic, but
seismographs and oscilloscopes might not be as relevant.
...Just looking for a bit more clarity.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:12 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are most certainly technology and I personally don't
have a problem with the discussion, but I believe some
members might not be quite as understanding so we might want
to close this topic or move it to the chat list as was
suggested.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well it not just because it a gun thread if it was about
guns and the
technology that could be implemted on them then it would
be on topic.
But just guns in general no . or if it is abut guns and
blindness it
would be on topic. As carlos is fairly flexable and most
anything
technology wise or blindness related is on topic . But I
have no
problem about moving to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

It might be time for the chat list as this topic has now
morphed into
some sort of gun thread.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Well this is true on single action revolvers of today and
it is still
the safety way is to let the hammer set on an empty
chamber. Now you
could do the same for a double action as well let it set
on the empty
chamber but you don't have to . As the trigger pull unless
modified is
usually a fairly heavy pull anyhow. . but the safest way
is not to put
your finger on the trigger till you are ready to pull it.
they really
have 4types of revolvers as I know. They are single shot,
single
action, double action only and DASA (Double action plus
single action)
another words you can just pull the trigger or you can
cock the hammer
and pull the trigger. Your choice. Most double action only
does not
have an external hammer.
Now I was brought up with guns and had them around me and
learn at
every early age about them and how to handle them. But you
need to get
training on handling them and using them as well as
training on the
laws and how to protect yourself with them. it is much
more than just
going out and buying gun. This is just stupid. I not a big
fan of most
regulation but some I am and some I have no problem with
them at all.
But I don't know if we are not sort of straying off topic
and off the
the subject as well so this might need to be moved to the
chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action
revolver unless the
hammer is cocked back in to the firing position. You
never cock the
gun unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety because
the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the
necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be
almost
impossible to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to
shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the
safety is not
to pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently
trigger it in my
pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried
with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but you
don't take
pepper spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a
baseball bat
fight. If you did you would be on the losing end of the
fight for
sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box!
Pepper spray
is one of them. But it should not be the only thing. You
should have
a knife , stun gun or Taser and a gun for sure a good old
fashion
hickory cane with a good hook to it that is very pointed
at the end of
the hook is good or asord cane is good. But a water gun
is not much
good unless you have something besides water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of
pepper spray
myself, too. I have worries about guns myself, but the
good old
pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this
drivel. I know
one of these so-called "blind extremists" who carries a
gun and he
carries it for protection only. The times he has shot it
in public
was because he was being threatened by four sighted
extremist thugs
also known as criminals, who were threatening to not only
rob him but
cause him physical harm. He took out his gun and shot
once, straight
up into the air. Yes, the extremist thugs quickly ran
away in fright
and I hope they also needed to do some laundry quickly
afterward.
Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't
been legally
carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my time with
telling you
that as you're not for the individual and his rights but
for some
other agenda instead. BTW there are more deaths due to
automobile
accidents than there are due to shootings so this brings
it back
around to your glass half full attitude aimed at
self-driving cars
which have caused how many deaths so far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some blind
extremists
allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their
constitutional right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's
bad enough
that terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and own
firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed up
mess that
has become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald
Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And if
the
lawmakers were so determined to put a halt to any
technology that is
not 100% safe and foolproof, there are many types of
technology we
would not have access to in modern society. If the
lawmakers in
Washington care so much about keeping dangerous technology
out of the
hands of the blind, then why are there several blind
individuals who
are still being allowed to legally own firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100% foolproof
is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and elsewhere
won't see
it that way. They will demand that self-driving vehicles
be made as
close to 100% foolproof as possible before they consider
enacting
legislation that would allow blind drivers to operate them
without the
accompaniment of a sighted driver. That's just the
realities of
politics in a predominantly sighted world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage
these types of cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a
difference
between soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned, the
other issue
here is this ridiculous assumption that somehow the
technology should
be or ever can be made 100% safe and foolproof. That is
just nonsense
and trying to predict the future of the technology based
on one
accident or even several is just more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a
half empty
blass but a half full one. But in some cases this is just
not
possible. I have to agree with him on this Gerald . It
is also not
just the US legislature but from state to state. Just
like all
driving laws vary from state to state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will
more than
likely implement it on law on driving driverless cars. I
also think
they would require very special training even for the
sited but
certainly for the blind person as well! I just don't see
the blind
being able to do this in my life time and I hope to be
here around
another 30 years. I am coming up on my 58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The
bottom line is
that it will be a very long time, if ever, before blind
consumers are
allowed to operate one of these gizmos by themselves. One
fatal
accident is still one fatal accident too many. These
vehicles must be
made 100% safe and foolproof before the powers that be in
Washington
will let blind drivers behind the wheel without the
accompaniment of a
sighted driver in the passenger's seat. Sorry to throw
water on your
parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of
reasons why
this could have happened. It is likely these multiple car

manufacturers are using different gPS databases and
supporting
software, as well as other yet to be determined reasons,
so what
happened here may not happen to other researchers who are
using more
developed databases--the results depend on lots of
variables. The
Google car has not had this type of history, and the
single accident
it had was due to a human disabling the computer and
taking over the
driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you might
consider
solutions which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one of
those
newfangled
self-driving cars that may some day revolutionize the
lives of us blind
consumers, not so fast. The race to develop a safe and
reliable
self-driving vehicle suffered a major setback recently
when a Tesla
all-electric self-driving car was involved in a fatal
accident that killed
the driver while it was operating in self-driving mode. I
guess it's back
to the drawing board:



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesl
a-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players,
Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr















-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12537 -
Release Date: 07/01/16


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Carlos
 

I didn't say that other screen readers would just disappear, but I believe that third-party developers might have less incentive to invest much time and effort in serious development if a full-blown screen reader were built-in. The screen reader market already has a limited margin for profit and Microsoft would always have the edge in terms of adding new features if they became seriously invested in Narrator. Consumers might also have less incentive to purchase third-party screen readers if most of the functionality they need were already included in Windows. Windows is not Android. The alternatives are either very expensive or free in the case of NVDA. In the case of more expensive screen readers, consumers would almost always choose the fully functional option that is built-in and does not cost nearly $1000. Organizations which provide sponsorship for obtaining computers would also have less reason to purchase screen readers like JAWS. Of course some people might think this is a good thing, but if sales of JAWS were to drop significantly, eventually it might make continuing to produce the product unviable which in turn means fewer options. It is hard to say whether NVDA would be affected, but the development of NVDA is supported partially by donations and partially by the motivation of the developers, either of which could potentially be affected by the inclusion of a full-blown screen reader in Windows.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Hi Carlos,
I deleted your original post, but, know how you're saying Mac? To
my knowledge, talkBack is built into android, yet, there's
another one called ShinePlus. I wonder, if, say, MS made a fully
built in screen reader, as long as windows was opened, I can't
see why something like would NVDA died. Apple is different, as
their system is not opened.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:11:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

No it wouldn't. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
Whether Narrator becomes a full-blown screen reader some day, it
has a
long
way to go. And in my opinion, making Narrator a full-blown
screen reader
would only stifle development for the competition. It is good
to have
options and Macs are a good example of what happens when a
full-blown
screen
reader is built-in to the operating system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


I am not usually one to use this type of strong language, but
really?
How do you think NVDA and Jaws got to where they are? Feedback!
Let's
all give narrator a chance. Microsoft alone won't make the
screenreader,
but together, the end users,(Us the blind community) will make
Narrator
a screenreader which could even beat out voice over if we really
wanted
it bad enough. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:19 PM, Marie wrote:
I find Narrator useful on occasion, but it is far from being a
full
screen reader and I would hate it if they made it like the Apple
devices where it is your only choice.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

If they are going somewhere with Narrator, then they should
simply
release a
major upgrade when it is ready to be used as a full-blown screen
reader. At
this point it is wasted effort to introduce these minor changes
since
it is
still not functional enough to be used by most on a daily basis.
Gradually
introducing features that most people probably won't use because
there
is a
better free alternative seems like effort that could be more
productively
invested somewhere else for now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Yeah, but they might be going somewhere with it which we don't
know
about
just yet. Some of the features discussed in the article seem as
though
they
may have been influenced by general screen reader tech.

They might first want to start with the Windows OS then
ultimately
create a
VoiceOver competitor for future Windows devices.

With technology advancing as it does, why not accept the help
from
one of
the biggest computer software developers in the world?
Furthermore,
this
development might yield discoveries which will help with other
related
disabilities experienced by an aging population.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io]
On
Behalf Of
Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and
somewhat
excessive in my opinion. How many people really use Narrator on
a
daily
basis? The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an
emergency
or to
finish setting up Windows. It is useful and convenient to have,
but
for
most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a
primary
screen
reader. These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive
screen
readers will most likely use NVDA. And Narrator has a long way
to go
before
it can compete with NVDA. That being the case, I believe their
time
and
effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other
areas. If
NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might
seem
more
significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems
like
wasted
effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with
the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved
it.
I will
not defend them in their accessibility implementation of
accessibility in
Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below


Re: all about guns and safety was Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Carlos
 

Neither of those two criteria define why a recorder is considered technology. Any artifact which is a product of science or acquired knowledge is technology.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Hi,
Actually, since a recorder is operated by buttons, and some sort of an under lining file system, I consider those to be technology.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are technical. All computers are technical, but not all
technical equipment is a computer. Now that is being very
objective from me, since anyone who knows me well knows my
viewpoint on guns. However, that viewpoint is not shared by
everyone, and I am not so dogmatic to say that only one idea
is correct. I just point out, that it would seem that guns,
while not computers, are technical. Clocks, recorders and
hearing aids are not, but we have discussed them at length.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:52 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi Carlos,

In hopes of not stepping on toes, I think you might want to
define what is meant by technology as it relates to this
list. I don't think most would consider guns technology in
terms of the scope of blind members wanting to know about
computer sciences and general computing. As is, it appears
that just about anything can be considered technology is one
thinks about it.
Would the study of ants be considered technology if an
electronic device is used to watch them at work? Would
Woman's make-up be on topic on this list if someone twists
him or herself in pretzels to box up a question using a
technology slant? I think most list members consider
computers and all they do for us as on topic, but
seismographs and oscilloscopes might not be as relevant.
...Just looking for a bit more clarity.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:12 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are most certainly technology and I personally don't
have a problem with the discussion, but I believe some
members might not be quite as understanding so we might want
to close this topic or move it to the chat list as was
suggested.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well it not just because it a gun thread if it was about
guns and the
technology that could be implemted on them then it would
be on topic.
But just guns in general no . or if it is abut guns and
blindness it
would be on topic. As carlos is fairly flexable and most
anything
technology wise or blindness related is on topic . But I
have no
problem about moving to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

It might be time for the chat list as this topic has now
morphed into
some sort of gun thread.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Well this is true on single action revolvers of today and
it is still
the safety way is to let the hammer set on an empty
chamber. Now you
could do the same for a double action as well let it set
on the empty
chamber but you don't have to . As the trigger pull unless
modified is
usually a fairly heavy pull anyhow. . but the safest way
is not to put
your finger on the trigger till you are ready to pull it.
they really
have 4types of revolvers as I know. They are single shot,
single
action, double action only and DASA (Double action plus
single action)
another words you can just pull the trigger or you can
cock the hammer
and pull the trigger. Your choice. Most double action only
does not
have an external hammer.
Now I was brought up with guns and had them around me and
learn at
every early age about them and how to handle them. But you
need to get
training on handling them and using them as well as
training on the
laws and how to protect yourself with them. it is much
more than just
going out and buying gun. This is just stupid. I not a big
fan of most
regulation but some I am and some I have no problem with
them at all.
But I don't know if we are not sort of straying off topic
and off the
the subject as well so this might need to be moved to the
chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action
revolver unless the
hammer is cocked back in to the firing position. You
never cock the
gun unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety because
the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the
necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be
almost
impossible to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to
shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the
safety is not
to pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently
trigger it in my
pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried
with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but you
don't take
pepper spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a
baseball bat
fight. If you did you would be on the losing end of the
fight for
sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box!
Pepper spray
is one of them. But it should not be the only thing. You
should have
a knife , stun gun or Taser and a gun for sure a good old
fashion
hickory cane with a good hook to it that is very pointed
at the end of
the hook is good or asord cane is good. But a water gun
is not much
good unless you have something besides water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of
pepper spray
myself, too. I have worries about guns myself, but the
good old
pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this
drivel. I know
one of these so-called "blind extremists" who carries a
gun and he
carries it for protection only. The times he has shot it
in public
was because he was being threatened by four sighted
extremist thugs
also known as criminals, who were threatening to not only
rob him but
cause him physical harm. He took out his gun and shot
once, straight
up into the air. Yes, the extremist thugs quickly ran
away in fright
and I hope they also needed to do some laundry quickly
afterward.
Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't
been legally
carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my time with
telling you
that as you're not for the individual and his rights but
for some
other agenda instead. BTW there are more deaths due to
automobile
accidents than there are due to shootings so this brings
it back
around to your glass half full attitude aimed at
self-driving cars
which have caused how many deaths so far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some blind
extremists
allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their
constitutional right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's
bad enough
that terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and own
firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed up
mess that
has become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald
Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And if
the
lawmakers were so determined to put a halt to any
technology that is
not 100% safe and foolproof, there are many types of
technology we
would not have access to in modern society. If the
lawmakers in
Washington care so much about keeping dangerous technology
out of the
hands of the blind, then why are there several blind
individuals who
are still being allowed to legally own firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100% foolproof
is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and elsewhere
won't see
it that way. They will demand that self-driving vehicles
be made as
close to 100% foolproof as possible before they consider
enacting
legislation that would allow blind drivers to operate them
without the
accompaniment of a sighted driver. That's just the
realities of
politics in a predominantly sighted world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage
these types of cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a
difference
between soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned, the
other issue
here is this ridiculous assumption that somehow the
technology should
be or ever can be made 100% safe and foolproof. That is
just nonsense
and trying to predict the future of the technology based
on one
accident or even several is just more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a
half empty
blass but a half full one. But in some cases this is just
not
possible. I have to agree with him on this Gerald . It
is also not
just the US legislature but from state to state. Just
like all
driving laws vary from state to state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will
more than
likely implement it on law on driving driverless cars. I
also think
they would require very special training even for the
sited but
certainly for the blind person as well! I just don't see
the blind
being able to do this in my life time and I hope to be
here around
another 30 years. I am coming up on my 58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The
bottom line is
that it will be a very long time, if ever, before blind
consumers are
allowed to operate one of these gizmos by themselves. One
fatal
accident is still one fatal accident too many. These
vehicles must be
made 100% safe and foolproof before the powers that be in
Washington
will let blind drivers behind the wheel without the
accompaniment of a
sighted driver in the passenger's seat. Sorry to throw
water on your
parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of
reasons why
this could have happened. It is likely these multiple car

manufacturers are using different gPS databases and
supporting
software, as well as other yet to be determined reasons,
so what
happened here may not happen to other researchers who are
using more
developed databases--the results depend on lots of
variables. The
Google car has not had this type of history, and the
single accident
it had was due to a human disabling the computer and
taking over the
driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you might
consider
solutions which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one of
those
newfangled
self-driving cars that may some day revolutionize the
lives of us blind
consumers, not so fast. The race to develop a safe and
reliable
self-driving vehicle suffered a major setback recently
when a Tesla
all-electric self-driving car was involved in a fatal
accident that killed
the driver while it was operating in self-driving mode. I
guess it's back
to the drawing board:



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesl
a-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players,
Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr















-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12537 -
Release Date: 07/01/16




































Re: Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

James Bentley
 

I also totally agree.  Carlos, please keep every thing just like it is.
 
 
 

From: Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology
 
Totally agree !


 
 
Matt.from.florida@...
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2016, at 1:44 PM, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:

I honestly can't understand why some people have such a narrow definition of the word technology.  The word technology is not a synonym for computer.  While I can understand that is usually the primary interest of discussion on such lists, I figured there were enough lists which exclusively discuss computer technology that trying to keep this list a bit more flexible wouldn't be considered unreasonable.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology
 

Hi there Folks!

Wonder what this topic has to do with technology and accessibility? To my knowledge they do not make a gun with any sort of blindness technology-or do they..? I really do wish we could get this list back on topic and leave the gun talk to the chat list.  Personally I am 60 years old and have never owned a gun-and probably never will.  If I were to own a gun it would be somethihng like a shotgun so that if I actually had to shoot at someone in self defense, I might have a chance of hitting them.  We really don't need a bunch of Barney Fifes shooting themselves in the foot<SMILE!>.          I know there are folks out there who use guns responsibly and that is most of them.

  But I wonder just how many gun owners are blind or legally blind? Anyone no any stats on that?  Have A Good 1! de
<KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.
On 02-Jul-16 12:32, James Bentley wrote:
What's insane is that the general public can purchase a version of this sniper rifle that hits a very small target at over half a mile.

Yikes,  I think I will just stay in the house with the blinds drrawn.



-----Original Message----- From: Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 11:17 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Wow! that is freakin insane!

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:07 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

The United States military has a computerized rifle and scope combination.
It first takes a photo of the entire target area.  Next, the shooter uses a
cursor on a touch screen to tell the computer where to put the bullet.
Next, the shooter aims at the target.  The computer fires the rifle only
when it sees that the rifle is aimed with pin point accuracy.  3 inch
Targets can be hit accurately at distances over two miles.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Finally, a relevant informative post. Thank you for contributing to my small
pool of knowledge. :)

And while on the subject matter, I'm thinking an audio beep of some sort
might be able to alert the blind shooter than the object of interest is
within the cross hairs of scope. Key will be determining what is target
object and what is some sort of artifact.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joe
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

There is now what some are calling a smart rifle, out of Texas. At $25,000,
it's beyond the reach of most enthusiasts, but it can fetch that price for
the level of precision it can automatically adjust to help the shooter
acquire a target. If technology has leaped that far, one can almost wonder
what credit, if any, the shooter gets, but my question is this: What
technology have the hunters among us used to rely a little less on sighted
assistance? I go deer hunting, but thus far I have leaned heavily on
discrete cues from sighted companions to know where and when to fire. It's
not a bad method. I've brought down three bucks in this fashion, and while
hunting can often be enjoyed with companions, it would be nice to
independently, but responsibly, engage and execute the target myself. Right
now I use a laser to help my sighted companions get a better sense of where
I am aiming. This allows me to hold and operate the rifle on my own, but
again, it feels inefficient. Any tips would be welcomed.

I'll note that while I am a member of a local shooting range, I have
hesitated to obtain a gun permit. I understand my shooting would be optimal
at very close range, but the risk of hitting someone innocent, however
small, still weighs on my conscience.

I realize for some the discussion of guns and hunting could be abhorrent. If
so, feel free to email me off list. For whatever it's worth, I eat what I
kill. I've never gone hunting for the mere sport. I've learned how to skin
my own kill, and I suppose one could argue the knife skill in doing so could
itself be viewed as a form of technology skill.

Not to stray too far off topic here, but any number of disasters could occur
in our lifetime and in our own backyard. In a scenario with no power and
extensive food shortage, that Windows machine isn't going to be worth a
whole lot except for maybe scrap metal. Our definition of "technology" just
might revert to what technology used to be. That is, the means to survive.

Best,

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe





















Re: all about guns and safety was Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Carolyn Arnold
 

Not a gun enthusiast, but a gun has moving parts and is a
piece of equipment. It has maintenance requirements and
certainly safety requirements. Nevertheless, it is a piece
of equipment with moving parts.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 10:57 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

I'm actually making a friendly request for the gun
enthusists on the list to help me understand what facet of
guns is technology related? This is a friendly request
though it may come off as a challenge. Again, I think I
might learn something I had not considered in the past.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:36 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Are guns not technology? As you say, just about anything
can be considered technology. Anything manufactured for use
as a tool qualifies as technology and while I agree that
there should be a reasonable common sense line in defining
how it relates to the list, it certainly doesn't only apply
to computers and electronics even taking that into account.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Ok, but just so I learn something, what makes the gun
topic tech related?

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:17 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Hell, can we keep the gun talk on this list for now? One
less list to
subscribe to, and I think Carlos has the right of it in
considering
guns as technology. Just my two cents.

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:26 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Generally electronic and accessible technology is what
most members
are interested in discussing, but I don't object to other
types of
technology being discussed within reason. It is a general
technology
discussion list, not exclusively for discussing computer
related
technology. However, I expect people to use a bit of
common sense.
Science provides technology, but it is not technology. We
will handle
unusual topics on an individual basis, but basically as
long as it
does not strain the credulity and patience of most
members, I am
willing to be flexible and open minded. Of course, if a
slightly
offbeat topic seems to be dragging on for too long or
irritating too
many members, I may request that we move on at some point.
Also, while the majority of members are blind and I will
not go out of
my way to promote the list in the sighted community, I
have no
objections to sighted individuals who might wish to
subscribe and
participate.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident


Hi Carlos,

In hopes of not stepping on toes, I think you might want
to define
what is meant by technology as it relates to this list. I
don't think
most would consider guns technology in terms of the scope
of blind
members wanting to know about computer sciences and
general computing.
As is, it appears that just about anything can be
considered
technology is
one thinks about it.
Would the study of ants be considered technology if an
electronic
device is used to watch them at work? Would Woman's
make-up be on
topic on this list if someone twists him or herself in
pretzels to
box up a question using a technology slant? I think most
list members
consider computers and all they do for us as on topic,
but
seismographs and oscilloscopes might not be as relevant.
...Just
looking for a bit more clarity.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:12 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving
Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are most certainly technology and I personally don't
have a
problem with the discussion, but I believe some members
might not be
quite as understanding so we might want to close this
topic or move
it to the chat list as was suggested.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving
Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well it not just because it a gun thread if it was about
guns and
the technology that could be implemted on them then it
would be on
topic.
But just guns in general no . or if it is abut guns and
blindness it
would be on topic. As carlos is fairly flexable and
most anything
technology wise or blindness related is on topic . But I
have no
problem about moving to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving
Car Involved In Fatal Accident

It might be time for the chat list as this topic has now
morphed
into some sort of gun thread.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving
Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Well this is true on single action revolvers of today
and it is
still the safety way is to let the hammer set on an
empty chamber.
Now you could do the same for a double action as well
let it set on
the empty chamber but you don't have to . As the trigger
pull unless
modified is usually a fairly heavy pull anyhow. . but
the safest way
is not to put your finger on the trigger till you are
ready to pull
it. they really have 4types of revolvers as I know. They
are single
shot, single action, double action only and DASA (Double
action plus
single
action) another words you can just pull the trigger or
you can cock
the hammer and pull the trigger. Your choice. Most
double action
only does not have an external hammer.
Now I was brought up with guns and had them around me
and learn at
every early age about them and how to handle them. But
you need to
get training on handling them and using them as well as
training on
the laws and how to protect yourself with them. it is
much more than
just going out and buying gun. This is just stupid. I
not a big fan
of most regulation but some I am and some I have no
problem with
them at
all.
But I don't know if we are not sort of straying off
topic and off
the the subject as well so this might need to be moved
to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action
revolver unless
the hammer is cocked back in to the firing position.
You never cock
the gun unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety
because the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the
necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be
almost
impossible to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to
shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the
safety is
not to pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently
trigger it in
my pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried
with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but
you don't take
pepper spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a
baseball bat
fight. If you did you would be on the losing end of the
fight for
sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box!
Pepper
spray is one of them. But it should not be the only
thing. You
should have a knife , stun gun or Taser and a gun for
sure a good
old fashion hickory cane with a good hook to it that is
very pointed
at the end of the hook is good or asord cane is good.
But a water
gun is not much good unless you have something besides
water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of
pepper spray
myself, too. I have worries about guns myself, but the
good old
pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this
drivel. I
know one of these so-called "blind extremists" who
carries a gun and
he carries it for protection only. The times he has
shot it in
public was because he was being threatened by four
sighted extremist
thugs also known as criminals, who were threatening to
not only rob
him but cause him physical harm. He took out his gun
and shot
once, straight up into the air. Yes, the extremist
thugs quickly
ran away in fright and I hope they also needed to do
some laundry
quickly
afterward.
Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't
been
legally carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my
time with
telling you that as you're not for the individual and
his rights but
for some other agenda instead. BTW there are more
deaths due to
automobile accidents than there are due to shootings so
this brings
it back around to your glass half full attitude aimed at
self-driving cars which have caused how many deaths so
far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some
blind extremists
allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their
constitutional
right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's
bad enough
that terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and
own firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed
up mess that
has become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald
Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And
if the
lawmakers were so determined to put a halt to any
technology that is
not 100% safe and foolproof, there are many types of
technology we
would not have access to in modern society. If the
lawmakers in
Washington care so much about keeping dangerous
technology out of
the hands of the blind, then why are there several blind
individuals
who are still being allowed to legally own firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100%
foolproof is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and
elsewhere won't see
it that way. They will demand that self-driving
vehicles be made as
close to 100% foolproof as possible before they consider
enacting
legislation that would allow blind drivers to operate
them without
the accompaniment of a sighted driver. That's just the
realities of
politics in a predominantly sighted world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage
these types of
cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a
difference
between soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned,
the other
issue here is this ridiculous assumption that somehow
the technology
should be or ever can be made 100% safe and foolproof.
That is just
nonsense and trying to predict the future of the
technology based on
one accident or even several is just more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a
half empty
blass but a half full one. But in some cases this is
just not
possible. I have to agree with him on this Gerald .
It is also
not just the US legislature but from state to state.
Just like all
driving laws vary from state to state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will
more than
likely implement it on law on driving driverless cars.
I also think
they would require very special training even for the
sited but
certainly for the blind person as well! I just don't see
the blind
being able to do this in my life time and I hope to be
here around
another 30 years. I am coming up on my 58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The
bottom line
is that it will be a very long time, if ever, before
blind consumers
are allowed to operate one of these gizmos by
themselves. One fatal
accident is still one fatal accident too many. These
vehicles must
be made 100% safe and foolproof before the powers that
be in
Washington will let blind drivers behind the wheel
without the
accompaniment of a sighted driver in the passenger's
seat. Sorry to
throw water on your parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In
Fatal Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of
reasons why
this could have happened. It is likely these multiple
car
manufacturers are using different gPS databases and
supporting
software, as well as other yet to be determined
reasons, so what
happened here may not happen to other researchers who
are using more
developed databases--the results depend on lots of
variables. The
Google car has not had this type of history, and the
single accident
it had was due to a human disabling the computer and
taking over the
driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you
might consider
solutions which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one
of those
newfangled self-driving cars that may some day
revolutionize the
lives of us blind consumers, not so fast. The race to
develop a
safe and reliable self-driving vehicle suffered a major
setback
recently when a Tesla all-electric self-driving car was
involved in
a fatal accident that killed the driver while it was
operating in
self-driving mode. I guess it's back to the drawing
board:


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesl
a-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players,
Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr















-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12537 -
Release Date:
07/01/16



































Re: all about guns and safety was Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Carlos
 

Clocks, recorders and hearing aids are all technology.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Hi,
Actually, since a recorder is operated by buttons, and some sort of an under lining file system, I consider those to be technology.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are technical. All computers are technical, but not all
technical equipment is a computer. Now that is being very
objective from me, since anyone who knows me well knows my
viewpoint on guns. However, that viewpoint is not shared by
everyone, and I am not so dogmatic to say that only one idea
is correct. I just point out, that it would seem that guns,
while not computers, are technical. Clocks, recorders and
hearing aids are not, but we have discussed them at length.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:52 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi Carlos,

In hopes of not stepping on toes, I think you might want to
define what is meant by technology as it relates to this
list. I don't think most would consider guns technology in
terms of the scope of blind members wanting to know about
computer sciences and general computing. As is, it appears
that just about anything can be considered technology is one
thinks about it.
Would the study of ants be considered technology if an
electronic device is used to watch them at work? Would
Woman's make-up be on topic on this list if someone twists
him or herself in pretzels to box up a question using a
technology slant? I think most list members consider
computers and all they do for us as on topic, but
seismographs and oscilloscopes might not be as relevant.
...Just looking for a bit more clarity.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:12 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are most certainly technology and I personally don't
have a problem with the discussion, but I believe some
members might not be quite as understanding so we might want
to close this topic or move it to the chat list as was
suggested.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well it not just because it a gun thread if it was about
guns and the
technology that could be implemted on them then it would
be on topic.
But just guns in general no . or if it is abut guns and
blindness it
would be on topic. As carlos is fairly flexable and most
anything
technology wise or blindness related is on topic . But I
have no
problem about moving to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

It might be time for the chat list as this topic has now
morphed into
some sort of gun thread.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Well this is true on single action revolvers of today and
it is still
the safety way is to let the hammer set on an empty
chamber. Now you
could do the same for a double action as well let it set
on the empty
chamber but you don't have to . As the trigger pull unless
modified is
usually a fairly heavy pull anyhow. . but the safest way
is not to put
your finger on the trigger till you are ready to pull it.
they really
have 4types of revolvers as I know. They are single shot,
single
action, double action only and DASA (Double action plus
single action)
another words you can just pull the trigger or you can
cock the hammer
and pull the trigger. Your choice. Most double action only
does not
have an external hammer.
Now I was brought up with guns and had them around me and
learn at
every early age about them and how to handle them. But you
need to get
training on handling them and using them as well as
training on the
laws and how to protect yourself with them. it is much
more than just
going out and buying gun. This is just stupid. I not a big
fan of most
regulation but some I am and some I have no problem with
them at all.
But I don't know if we are not sort of straying off topic
and off the
the subject as well so this might need to be moved to the
chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action
revolver unless the
hammer is cocked back in to the firing position. You
never cock the
gun unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety because
the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the
necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be
almost
impossible to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to
shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the
safety is not
to pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently
trigger it in my
pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried
with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but you
don't take
pepper spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a
baseball bat
fight. If you did you would be on the losing end of the
fight for
sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box!
Pepper spray
is one of them. But it should not be the only thing. You
should have
a knife , stun gun or Taser and a gun for sure a good old
fashion
hickory cane with a good hook to it that is very pointed
at the end of
the hook is good or asord cane is good. But a water gun
is not much
good unless you have something besides water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of
pepper spray
myself, too. I have worries about guns myself, but the
good old
pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this
drivel. I know
one of these so-called "blind extremists" who carries a
gun and he
carries it for protection only. The times he has shot it
in public
was because he was being threatened by four sighted
extremist thugs
also known as criminals, who were threatening to not only
rob him but
cause him physical harm. He took out his gun and shot
once, straight
up into the air. Yes, the extremist thugs quickly ran
away in fright
and I hope they also needed to do some laundry quickly
afterward.
Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't
been legally
carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my time with
telling you
that as you're not for the individual and his rights but
for some
other agenda instead. BTW there are more deaths due to
automobile
accidents than there are due to shootings so this brings
it back
around to your glass half full attitude aimed at
self-driving cars
which have caused how many deaths so far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some blind
extremists
allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their
constitutional right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's
bad enough
that terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and own
firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed up
mess that
has become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald
Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And if
the
lawmakers were so determined to put a halt to any
technology that is
not 100% safe and foolproof, there are many types of
technology we
would not have access to in modern society. If the
lawmakers in
Washington care so much about keeping dangerous technology
out of the
hands of the blind, then why are there several blind
individuals who
are still being allowed to legally own firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100% foolproof
is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and elsewhere
won't see
it that way. They will demand that self-driving vehicles
be made as
close to 100% foolproof as possible before they consider
enacting
legislation that would allow blind drivers to operate them
without the
accompaniment of a sighted driver. That's just the
realities of
politics in a predominantly sighted world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage
these types of cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a
difference
between soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned, the
other issue
here is this ridiculous assumption that somehow the
technology should
be or ever can be made 100% safe and foolproof. That is
just nonsense
and trying to predict the future of the technology based
on one
accident or even several is just more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a
half empty
blass but a half full one. But in some cases this is just
not
possible. I have to agree with him on this Gerald . It
is also not
just the US legislature but from state to state. Just
like all
driving laws vary from state to state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will
more than
likely implement it on law on driving driverless cars. I
also think
they would require very special training even for the
sited but
certainly for the blind person as well! I just don't see
the blind
being able to do this in my life time and I hope to be
here around
another 30 years. I am coming up on my 58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The
bottom line is
that it will be a very long time, if ever, before blind
consumers are
allowed to operate one of these gizmos by themselves. One
fatal
accident is still one fatal accident too many. These
vehicles must be
made 100% safe and foolproof before the powers that be in
Washington
will let blind drivers behind the wheel without the
accompaniment of a
sighted driver in the passenger's seat. Sorry to throw
water on your
parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of
reasons why
this could have happened. It is likely these multiple car

manufacturers are using different gPS databases and
supporting
software, as well as other yet to be determined reasons,
so what
happened here may not happen to other researchers who are
using more
developed databases--the results depend on lots of
variables. The
Google car has not had this type of history, and the
single accident
it had was due to a human disabling the computer and
taking over the
driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you might
consider
solutions which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one of
those
newfangled
self-driving cars that may some day revolutionize the
lives of us blind
consumers, not so fast. The race to develop a safe and
reliable
self-driving vehicle suffered a major setback recently
when a Tesla
all-electric self-driving car was involved in a fatal
accident that killed
the driver while it was operating in self-driving mode. I
guess it's back
to the drawing board:



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesl
a-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players,
Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr















-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12537 -
Release Date: 07/01/16




































Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carolyn Arnold
 

And my password has eleven characters; I was told it had to have at least six. I used my Windstream one, not my Windows one. Maybe that is where I went wrong.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 9:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Well you got to log in so what is the deal with that ? what am I logging into?!





Matt.from.florida@... <mailto:Matt.from.florida@...>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:49 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



LOL click on the

Vote Now <https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>

link and choose an option to make it official. This way everyone can also view the results of the poll.

----- Original Message -----

From: Loy <mailto:loyrg2845@...>

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:45 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



I never use narrator.

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@...>

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 9:39 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



A new poll has been created:

Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.



1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
2. I never use Narrator
3. I use Narrator regularly

Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

Hi,
You can use the Narrator voice with NVDA... LOL, I figured that much out, for the hour I've had. If you open the NVDA menu, go to general, I think it is, then if you find the synthesizer dialog, you can change the synth. I can't recall whether you need to go to voice or whether you can change the same gender in the dialog, but its that sort of an idea. I'll leave the knowledgeables to edit my attempts.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:36:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

The thing about Narrator is that it has such a pleasant voice, but, JAWS is the devil I know.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 8:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Yes I think it is very poor that their flag ship browser is not accessible to us! I also think they could have and should have made Narrator a full blown integrated screen reader just like Apple did with VO on all it products!





Matt.from.florida@... <mailto:Matt.from.florida@...



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog



I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it. I will not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below.


Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog? Being passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having significant accessibility problems. Being passionate about accessibility means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release.



And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback. It isn't incredible. It's useful and good feedback but incredible? You aren't accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide feedback but patronizing them. We don't want to be called incredible nor our feedback. We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate. And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to know about it? Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute. If your accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher Hallsworth <mailto:challsworth2@...

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog





https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-
progr
ess-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making
-prog
ress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/

Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary
Update

With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world, Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update becomes available.
We also recognize that we must continue to invest in accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want to wait to upgrade, dont forget that you will still have the opportunity to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends. We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take advantage of the free upgrade offer.

We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps and experiences.

Improved Screen Reading with Narrator

As weve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes include:

Faster text to speech voices

Weve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800 words per minute.

New languages in Narrator

We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be available either with the corresponding international version of Windows or will be available for download.

Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil) Arabic (Egypt)
Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark) Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway)
Dutch (Belgium) Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish
(Sweden) Turkish (Turkey) More familiar keyboard navigation

Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure better ergonomics, making them easier to type.

Introducing scan mode

Weve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.

Six levels of verbosity

Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get varying indications of other text properties, like text color or formatting.

Punctuation Modes

Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include none, some, most, all and math along with default.

Now announcing AutoSuggest results

Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio indication when these suggestions are available.

Feedback made easy

Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.

User guides and documentation

Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the Anniversary Update is released.

Working to make apps and experiences more accessible

Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our app teams have also been making regular updates.
Below are a few of the notable highlights.

More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge

In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the introduction of Microsoft Edges new accessibility architecture, we are working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the transition to this new platform.

In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.

Mail

Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup experience when using a screen reader.

Cortana

You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard, including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.

Groove

The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support, including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.

Making accessibility easier for developers

In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible experiences within their apps and websites.
Here are a few developer resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows 10 anniversary Update.

New Tools

Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work.
The Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find, triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that dont have an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator. Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.

XAML Improvements

The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal Windows Apps (UWAs) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in order to activate the purchase button.

Improved Documentation

And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and sample code for accessibility.

Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to you.. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK + E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building them.

Previous Blogs and Resources:

Windows

Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/furthe
r-det
ails-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/
Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improv
ement
s-to-narrator-in-windows-10/> Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more
accessible: Our path forward

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making
-wind
ows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/
Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/access
ibili
ty-update-for-windows-10-mail/> Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free
Upgrade

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/access
ibili
ty-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/
Microsoft Edge

Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-ed
ge-bl
og-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/
Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-ed
ge-bl

og-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/
Building a More Accessible Web Platform

<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/buildi
ng-a-
more-accessible-web-platform/
Developers

Accessibility Design guidelines

<https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibili
ty-ov
erview> Accessibility Developer Hub
<https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carolyn Arnold
 

I entered my e-mail address three times and password six - not in, but vote never.


Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 9:54 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Oh yes, and after you select a choice, you should also click the "Vote"
link for your vote to be registered.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

LOL click on the
Vote Now <https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
link and choose an option to make it official. This way everyone can also view the results of the poll.

----- Original Message -----
From: Loy <mailto:loyrg2845@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

I never use narrator.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 9:39 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


A new poll has been created:

Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.





1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
2. I never use Narrator
3. I use Narrator regularly


Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>


Re: all about guns and safety was Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

Hi,
Actually, since a recorder is operated by buttons, and some sort of an under lining file system, I consider those to be technology.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are technical. All computers are technical, but not all
technical equipment is a computer. Now that is being very
objective from me, since anyone who knows me well knows my
viewpoint on guns. However, that viewpoint is not shared by
everyone, and I am not so dogmatic to say that only one idea
is correct. I just point out, that it would seem that guns,
while not computers, are technical. Clocks, recorders and
hearing aids are not, but we have discussed them at length.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:52 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi Carlos,

In hopes of not stepping on toes, I think you might want to
define what is meant by technology as it relates to this
list. I don't think most would consider guns technology in
terms of the scope of blind members wanting to know about
computer sciences and general computing. As is, it appears
that just about anything can be considered technology is one
thinks about it.
Would the study of ants be considered technology if an
electronic device is used to watch them at work? Would
Woman's make-up be on topic on this list if someone twists
him or herself in pretzels to box up a question using a
technology slant? I think most list members consider
computers and all they do for us as on topic, but
seismographs and oscilloscopes might not be as relevant.
...Just looking for a bit more clarity.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:12 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are most certainly technology and I personally don't
have a problem with the discussion, but I believe some
members might not be quite as understanding so we might want
to close this topic or move it to the chat list as was
suggested.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well it not just because it a gun thread if it was about
guns and the
technology that could be implemted on them then it would
be on topic.
But just guns in general no . or if it is abut guns and
blindness it
would be on topic. As carlos is fairly flexable and most
anything
technology wise or blindness related is on topic . But I
have no
problem about moving to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

It might be time for the chat list as this topic has now
morphed into
some sort of gun thread.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Well this is true on single action revolvers of today and
it is still
the safety way is to let the hammer set on an empty
chamber. Now you
could do the same for a double action as well let it set
on the empty
chamber but you don't have to . As the trigger pull unless
modified is
usually a fairly heavy pull anyhow. . but the safest way
is not to put
your finger on the trigger till you are ready to pull it.
they really
have 4types of revolvers as I know. They are single shot,
single
action, double action only and DASA (Double action plus
single action)
another words you can just pull the trigger or you can
cock the hammer
and pull the trigger. Your choice. Most double action only
does not
have an external hammer.
Now I was brought up with guns and had them around me and
learn at
every early age about them and how to handle them. But you
need to get
training on handling them and using them as well as
training on the
laws and how to protect yourself with them. it is much
more than just
going out and buying gun. This is just stupid. I not a big
fan of most
regulation but some I am and some I have no problem with
them at all.
But I don't know if we are not sort of straying off topic
and off the
the subject as well so this might need to be moved to the
chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action
revolver unless the
hammer is cocked back in to the firing position. You
never cock the
gun unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety because
the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the
necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be
almost
impossible to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to
shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the
safety is not
to pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently
trigger it in my
pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried
with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but you
don't take
pepper spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a
baseball bat
fight. If you did you would be on the losing end of the
fight for
sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box!
Pepper spray
is one of them. But it should not be the only thing. You
should have
a knife , stun gun or Taser and a gun for sure a good old
fashion
hickory cane with a good hook to it that is very pointed
at the end of
the hook is good or asord cane is good. But a water gun
is not much
good unless you have something besides water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of
pepper spray
myself, too. I have worries about guns myself, but the
good old
pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this
drivel. I know
one of these so-called "blind extremists" who carries a
gun and he
carries it for protection only. The times he has shot it
in public
was because he was being threatened by four sighted
extremist thugs
also known as criminals, who were threatening to not only
rob him but
cause him physical harm. He took out his gun and shot
once, straight
up into the air. Yes, the extremist thugs quickly ran
away in fright
and I hope they also needed to do some laundry quickly
afterward.
Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't
been legally
carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my time with
telling you
that as you're not for the individual and his rights but
for some
other agenda instead. BTW there are more deaths due to
automobile
accidents than there are due to shootings so this brings
it back
around to your glass half full attitude aimed at
self-driving cars
which have caused how many deaths so far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some blind
extremists
allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their
constitutional right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's
bad enough
that terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and own
firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed up
mess that
has become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald
Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And if
the
lawmakers were so determined to put a halt to any
technology that is
not 100% safe and foolproof, there are many types of
technology we
would not have access to in modern society. If the
lawmakers in
Washington care so much about keeping dangerous technology
out of the
hands of the blind, then why are there several blind
individuals who
are still being allowed to legally own firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100% foolproof
is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and elsewhere
won't see
it that way. They will demand that self-driving vehicles
be made as
close to 100% foolproof as possible before they consider
enacting
legislation that would allow blind drivers to operate them
without the
accompaniment of a sighted driver. That's just the
realities of
politics in a predominantly sighted world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage
these types of cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a
difference
between soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned, the
other issue
here is this ridiculous assumption that somehow the
technology should
be or ever can be made 100% safe and foolproof. That is
just nonsense
and trying to predict the future of the technology based
on one
accident or even several is just more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a
half empty
blass but a half full one. But in some cases this is just
not
possible. I have to agree with him on this Gerald . It
is also not
just the US legislature but from state to state. Just
like all
driving laws vary from state to state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will
more than
likely implement it on law on driving driverless cars. I
also think
they would require very special training even for the
sited but
certainly for the blind person as well! I just don't see
the blind
being able to do this in my life time and I hope to be
here around
another 30 years. I am coming up on my 58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The
bottom line is
that it will be a very long time, if ever, before blind
consumers are
allowed to operate one of these gizmos by themselves. One
fatal
accident is still one fatal accident too many. These
vehicles must be
made 100% safe and foolproof before the powers that be in
Washington
will let blind drivers behind the wheel without the
accompaniment of a
sighted driver in the passenger's seat. Sorry to throw
water on your
parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of
reasons why
this could have happened. It is likely these multiple car

manufacturers are using different gPS databases and
supporting
software, as well as other yet to be determined reasons,
so what
happened here may not happen to other researchers who are
using more
developed databases--the results depend on lots of
variables. The
Google car has not had this type of history, and the
single accident
it had was due to a human disabling the computer and
taking over the
driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you might
consider
solutions which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one of
those
newfangled
self-driving cars that may some day revolutionize the
lives of us blind
consumers, not so fast. The race to develop a safe and
reliable
self-driving vehicle suffered a major setback recently
when a Tesla
all-electric self-driving car was involved in a fatal
accident that killed
the driver while it was operating in self-driving mode. I
guess it's back
to the drawing board:



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesl
a-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players,
Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr















-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12537 -
Release Date: 07/01/16


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carolyn Arnold
 

2. I never use Narrator.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 9:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

A new poll has been created:

Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.



1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
2. I never use Narrator
3. I use Narrator regularly


Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Carolyn Arnold
 

The thing about Narrator is that it has such a pleasant voice, but, JAWS is the devil I know.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 8:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Yes I think it is very poor that their flag ship browser is not accessible to us! I also think they could have and should have made Narrator a full blown integrated screen reader just like Apple did with VO on all it products!





Matt.from.florida@... <mailto:Matt.from.florida@...>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog



I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it. I will not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below.


Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog? Being passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having significant accessibility problems. Being passionate about accessibility means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release.



And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback. It isn't incredible. It's useful and good feedback but incredible? You aren't accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide feedback but patronizing them. We don't want to be called incredible nor our feedback. We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate. And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to know about it? Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute. If your accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher Hallsworth <mailto:challsworth2@...>

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog




https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progr
ess-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-prog
ress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/>

Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary
Update

With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world, Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update becomes available. We also recognize that we must continue to invest in accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want to wait to upgrade, don’t forget that you will still have the opportunity to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends. We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take advantage of the free upgrade offer.

We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps and experiences.

Improved Screen Reading with Narrator

As we’ve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes include:

Faster text to speech voices

We’ve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800 words per minute.

New languages in Narrator

We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be available either with the corresponding international version of Windows or will be available for download.

Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil) Arabic (Egypt)
Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark) Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway)
Dutch (Belgium) Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish
(Sweden) Turkish (Turkey) More familiar keyboard navigation

Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure better ergonomics, making them easier to type.

Introducing scan mode

We’ve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.

Six levels of verbosity

Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get varying indications of other text properties, like text color or formatting.

Punctuation Modes

Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include none, some, most, all and math along with default.

Now announcing AutoSuggest results

Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio indication when these suggestions are available.

Feedback made easy

Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.

User guides and documentation

Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the Anniversary Update is released.

Working to make apps and experiences more accessible

Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our app teams have also been making regular updates. Below are a few of the notable highlights.

More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge

In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the introduction of Microsoft Edge’s new accessibility architecture, we are working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the transition to this new platform.

In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.

Mail

Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup experience when using a screen reader.

Cortana

You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard, including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.

Groove

The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support, including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.

Making accessibility easier for developers

In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible experiences within their apps and websites. Here are a few developer resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows 10 anniversary Update.

New Tools

Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work. The Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find, triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that don’t have an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator. Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.

XAML Improvements

The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal Windows Apps (UWA’s) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in order to activate the purchase button.

Improved Documentation

And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and sample code for accessibility.

Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to you. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK + E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building them.

Previous Blogs and Resources:

Windows

Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/further-det
ails-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improvement
s-to-narrator-in-windows-10/> Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more
accessible: Our path forward
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making-wind
ows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/>
Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/accessibili
ty-update-for-windows-10-mail/> Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free
Upgrade
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/accessibili
ty-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/>
Microsoft Edge

Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-edge-bl
og-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/>
Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-edge-bl
og-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/>
Building a More Accessible Web Platform
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/building-a-
more-accessible-web-platform/>
Developers

Accessibility Design guidelines
<https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibility-ov
erview> Accessibility Developer Hub
<https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps>


Re: all about guns and safety was Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Carolyn Arnold
 

Guns are technical. All computers are technical, but not all
technical equipment is a computer. Now that is being very
objective from me, since anyone who knows me well knows my
viewpoint on guns. However, that viewpoint is not shared by
everyone, and I am not so dogmatic to say that only one idea
is correct. I just point out, that it would seem that guns,
while not computers, are technical. Clocks, recorders and
hearing aids are not, but we have discussed them at length.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:52 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Hi Carlos,

In hopes of not stepping on toes, I think you might want to
define what is meant by technology as it relates to this
list. I don't think most would consider guns technology in
terms of the scope of blind members wanting to know about
computer sciences and general computing. As is, it appears
that just about anything can be considered technology is one
thinks about it.
Would the study of ants be considered technology if an
electronic device is used to watch them at work? Would
Woman's make-up be on topic on this list if someone twists
him or herself in pretzels to box up a question using a
technology slant? I think most list members consider
computers and all they do for us as on topic, but
seismographs and oscilloscopes might not be as relevant.
...Just looking for a bit more clarity.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:12 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident

Guns are most certainly technology and I personally don't
have a problem with the discussion, but I believe some
members might not be quite as understanding so we might want
to close this topic or move it to the chat list as was
suggested.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal Accident


Well it not just because it a gun thread if it was about
guns and the
technology that could be implemted on them then it would
be on topic.
But just guns in general no . or if it is abut guns and
blindness it
would be on topic. As carlos is fairly flexable and most
anything
technology wise or blindness related is on topic . But I
have no
problem about moving to the chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

It might be time for the chat list as this topic has now
morphed into
some sort of gun thread.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: all about guns and safety was [TechTalk]
Self-Driving Car
Involved In Fatal Accident

Well this is true on single action revolvers of today and
it is still
the safety way is to let the hammer set on an empty
chamber. Now you
could do the same for a double action as well let it set
on the empty
chamber but you don't have to . As the trigger pull unless
modified is
usually a fairly heavy pull anyhow. . but the safest way
is not to put
your finger on the trigger till you are ready to pull it.
they really
have 4types of revolvers as I know. They are single shot,
single
action, double action only and DASA (Double action plus
single action)
another words you can just pull the trigger or you can
cock the hammer
and pull the trigger. Your choice. Most double action only
does not
have an external hammer.
Now I was brought up with guns and had them around me and
learn at
every early age about them and how to handle them. But you
need to get
training on handling them and using them as well as
training on the
laws and how to protect yourself with them. it is much
more than just
going out and buying gun. This is just stupid. I not a big
fan of most
regulation but some I am and some I have no problem with
them at all.
But I don't know if we are not sort of straying off topic
and off the
the subject as well so this might need to be moved to the
chat room.


Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can't even pull the trigger on a single action
revolver unless the
hammer is cocked back in to the firing position. You
never cock the
gun unless you intend to discharge it.

Most double action revolvers do not have a safety because
the gun still
needs to be cocked before it can be fired. Or, the
necessary trigger
travel to discharge the gun is so great that it would be
almost
impossible to accidentily pull the trigger far enough to
shoot the gun.

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

You can on most all pistols you cannot on revolvers the
safety is not
to pull the trigger.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

I think you can lock the trigger. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

My problem with a gun would be, what if I accidently
trigger it in my
pocket? Or sit on it, or whatever?
Knife, cane, spray, they're all good, but I'd be worried
with a gun.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Nothing wrong with pepper spray in certain events but you
don't take
pepper spray to a gun fight or a knife fight or even a
baseball bat
fight. If you did you would be on the losing end of the
fight for
sure!
You can have lots of things in your protection tool box!
Pepper spray
is one of them. But it should not be the only thing. You
should have
a knife , stun gun or Taser and a gun for sure a good old
fashion
hickory cane with a good hook to it that is very pointed
at the end of
the hook is good or asord cane is good. But a water gun
is not much
good unless you have something besides water in it.



Matt.from.florida@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Rajmund
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 4:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Hi All,
Speaking of protection, I'd feel safer with a bottle of
pepper spray
myself, too. I have worries about guns myself, but the
good old
pepper spray.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laz" <laz@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Gerald, I really hope you're just joking with all this
drivel. I know
one of these so-called "blind extremists" who carries a
gun and he
carries it for protection only. The times he has shot it
in public
was because he was being threatened by four sighted
extremist thugs
also known as criminals, who were threatening to not only
rob him but
cause him physical harm. He took out his gun and shot
once, straight
up into the air. Yes, the extremist thugs quickly ran
away in fright
and I hope they also needed to do some laundry quickly
afterward.
Who
knows what would have happened to my friend if he hadn't
been legally
carrying his weapon. But I know I'm wasting my time with
telling you
that as you're not for the individual and his rights but
for some
other agenda instead. BTW there are more deaths due to
automobile
accidents than there are due to shootings so this brings
it back
around to your glass half full attitude aimed at
self-driving cars
which have caused how many deaths so far...

Laz

On 7/1/16, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:

That's a damn good question. Why, indeed, are some blind
extremists
allowed

to walk around with guns? Oh, excuse me, it's their
constitutional right.
Never mind that they place the rest of us at risk. It's
bad enough
that terrorists and sociopaths are allowed to buy and own
firearms.
But blind
consumers as well? No wonder this country is a screwed up
mess that
has become beholden to dangerous demagogues like Donald
Trump.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

It is nonsense because it is simply not possible. And if
the
lawmakers were so determined to put a halt to any
technology that is
not 100% safe and foolproof, there are many types of
technology we
would not have access to in modern society. If the
lawmakers in
Washington care so much about keeping dangerous technology
out of the
hands of the blind, then why are there several blind
individuals who
are still being allowed to legally own firearms?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident



You may think that making self-driving cars 100% foolproof
is nonsense.
But
you can bet that the lawmakers in Washington and elsewhere
won't see
it that way. They will demand that self-driving vehicles
be made as
close to 100% foolproof as possible before they consider
enacting
legislation that would allow blind drivers to operate them
without the
accompaniment of a sighted driver. That's just the
realities of
politics in a predominantly sighted world.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Who knows when blind people will be allowed to manage
these types of cars.
Will it be any time soon? Probably not, but there is a
difference
between soon and never. But as far as I'm concerned, the
other issue
here is this ridiculous assumption that somehow the
technology should
be or ever can be made 100% safe and foolproof. That is
just nonsense
and trying to predict the future of the technology based
on one
accident or even several is just more nonsense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


Well I usually don't or try not to look at things with a
half empty
blass but a half full one. But in some cases this is just
not
possible. I have to agree with him on this Gerald . It
is also not
just the US legislature but from state to state. Just
like all
driving laws vary from state to state..
It
is called states' rights and there forth each state will
more than
likely implement it on law on driving driverless cars. I
also think
they would require very special training even for the
sited but
certainly for the blind person as well! I just don't see
the blind
being able to do this in my life time and I hope to be
here around
another 30 years. I am coming up on my 58th birthday.


Matt.from.florida@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


It really doesn't matter what caused the accident. The
bottom line is
that it will be a very long time, if ever, before blind
consumers are
allowed to operate one of these gizmos by themselves. One
fatal
accident is still one fatal accident too many. These
vehicles must be
made 100% safe and foolproof before the powers that be in
Washington
will let blind drivers behind the wheel without the
accompaniment of a
sighted driver in the passenger's seat. Sorry to throw
water on your
parade.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident

Again, another reflexive post of yours. There's lots of
reasons why
this could have happened. It is likely these multiple car
manufacturers are using different gPS databases and
supporting
software, as well as other yet to be determined reasons,
so what
happened here may not happen to other researchers who are
using more
developed databases--the results depend on lots of
variables. The
Google car has not had this type of history, and the
single accident
it had was due to a human disabling the computer and
taking over the
driving.

Gerald, I don't think technology is for you, so you might
consider
solutions which are less stressful to you.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Self-Driving Car Involved In Fatal
Accident


For those of you who are chomping at the bit to buy one of
those
newfangled
self-driving cars that may some day revolutionize the
lives of us blind
consumers, not so fast. The race to develop a safe and
reliable
self-driving vehicle suffered a major setback recently
when a Tesla
all-electric self-driving car was involved in a fatal
accident that killed
the driver while it was operating in self-driving mode. I
guess it's back
to the drawing board:


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesl
a-fat
al-crash-investigation.html?_r=0

Gerald
































--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players,
Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr















-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12537 -
Release Date: 07/01/16






















Re: Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

Hi All,
This is a calm, and quite often, like yesterday, entertaining list. I'm not afraid to contribute or ask things, as unlike with most places, I won't be attacked. LOL, prepare, I'm entering the world of windows next week, so there will be real real bginner questions. Anyway, just wanted to say I like how it is relaxed, yet, is still on the point. Thanks for a place like this one, Carlos.
No pretending behind this, if I had to recommend a general tech list, it would have to be this one. Sorry for mods and co-mods from other lists, if you're here.
Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:15:13 -0400
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Totally agree !




Matt.from.florida@...
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2016, at 1:44 PM, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:

I honestly can't understand why some people have such a narrow definition of the word technology. The word technology is not a synonym for computer. While I can understand that is usually the primary interest of discussion on such lists, I figured there were enough lists which exclusively discuss computer technology that trying to keep this list a bit more flexible wouldn't be considered unreasonable.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Wohlgamuth
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Hi there Folks!

Wonder what this topic has to do with technology and accessibility? To my knowledge they do not make a gun with any sort of blindness technology-or do they..? I really do wish we could get this list back on topic and leave the gun talk to the chat list. Personally I am 60 years old and have never owned a gun-and probably never will. If I were to own a gun it would be somethihng like a shotgun so that if I actually had to shoot at someone in self defense, I might have a chance of hitting them. We really don't need a bunch of Barney Fifes shooting themselves in the foot<SMILE!>. I know there are folks out there who use guns responsibly and that is most of them.

But I wonder just how many gun owners are blind or legally blind? Anyone no any stats on that? Have A Good 1! de
<KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.
On 02-Jul-16 12:32, James Bentley wrote:
What's insane is that the general public can purchase a version of this sniper rifle that hits a very small target at over half a mile.

Yikes, I think I will just stay in the house with the blinds drrawn.



-----Original Message----- From: Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 11:17 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Wow! that is freakin insane!

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:07 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

The United States military has a computerized rifle and scope combination.
It first takes a photo of the entire target area. Next, the shooter uses a
cursor on a touch screen to tell the computer where to put the bullet.
Next, the shooter aims at the target. The computer fires the rifle only
when it sees that the rifle is aimed with pin point accuracy. 3 inch
Targets can be hit accurately at distances over two miles.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Finally, a relevant informative post. Thank you for contributing to my small
pool of knowledge. :)

And while on the subject matter, I'm thinking an audio beep of some sort
might be able to alert the blind shooter than the object of interest is
within the cross hairs of scope. Key will be determining what is target
object and what is some sort of artifact.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joe
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

There is now what some are calling a smart rifle, out of Texas. At $25,000,
it's beyond the reach of most enthusiasts, but it can fetch that price for
the level of precision it can automatically adjust to help the shooter
acquire a target. If technology has leaped that far, one can almost wonder
what credit, if any, the shooter gets, but my question is this: What
technology have the hunters among us used to rely a little less on sighted
assistance? I go deer hunting, but thus far I have leaned heavily on
discrete cues from sighted companions to know where and when to fire. It's
not a bad method. I've brought down three bucks in this fashion, and while
hunting can often be enjoyed with companions, it would be nice to
independently, but responsibly, engage and execute the target myself. Right
now I use a laser to help my sighted companions get a better sense of where
I am aiming. This allows me to hold and operate the rifle on my own, but
again, it feels inefficient. Any tips would be welcomed.

I'll note that while I am a member of a local shooting range, I have
hesitated to obtain a gun permit. I understand my shooting would be optimal
at very close range, but the risk of hitting someone innocent, however
small, still weighs on my conscience.

I realize for some the discussion of guns and hunting could be abhorrent. If
so, feel free to email me off list. For whatever it's worth, I eat what I
kill. I've never gone hunting for the mere sport. I've learned how to skin
my own kill, and I suppose one could argue the knife skill in doing so could
itself be viewed as a form of technology skill.

Not to stray too far off topic here, but any number of disasters could occur
in our lifetime and in our own backyard. In a scenario with no power and
extensive food shortage, that Windows machine isn't going to be worth a
whole lot except for maybe scrap metal. Our definition of "technology" just
might revert to what technology used to be. That is, the means to survive.

Best,

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

Hi Carlos,
I deleted your original post, but, know how you're saying Mac? To my knowledge, talkBack is built into android, yet, there's another one called ShinePlus. I wonder, if, say, MS made a fully built in screen reader, as long as windows was opened, I can't see why something like would NVDA died. Apple is different, as their system is not opened.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:11:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

No it wouldn't. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
Whether Narrator becomes a full-blown screen reader some day, it has a
long
way to go. And in my opinion, making Narrator a full-blown screen reader
would only stifle development for the competition. It is good to have
options and Macs are a good example of what happens when a full-blown
screen
reader is built-in to the operating system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


I am not usually one to use this type of strong language, but really?
How do you think NVDA and Jaws got to where they are? Feedback! Let's
all give narrator a chance. Microsoft alone won't make the screenreader,
but together, the end users,(Us the blind community) will make Narrator
a screenreader which could even beat out voice over if we really wanted
it bad enough. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:19 PM, Marie wrote:
I find Narrator useful on occasion, but it is far from being a full
screen reader and I would hate it if they made it like the Apple
devices where it is your only choice.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

If they are going somewhere with Narrator, then they should simply
release a
major upgrade when it is ready to be used as a full-blown screen
reader. At
this point it is wasted effort to introduce these minor changes since
it is
still not functional enough to be used by most on a daily basis.
Gradually
introducing features that most people probably won't use because there
is a
better free alternative seems like effort that could be more
productively
invested somewhere else for now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Yeah, but they might be going somewhere with it which we don't know
about
just yet. Some of the features discussed in the article seem as though
they
may have been influenced by general screen reader tech.

They might first want to start with the Windows OS then ultimately
create a
VoiceOver competitor for future Windows devices.

With technology advancing as it does, why not accept the help from
one of
the biggest computer software developers in the world? Furthermore,
this
development might yield discoveries which will help with other related
disabilities experienced by an aging population.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of
Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and somewhat
excessive in my opinion. How many people really use Narrator on a
daily
basis? The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an emergency
or to
finish setting up Windows. It is useful and convenient to have, but
for
most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a primary
screen
reader. These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen
readers will most likely use NVDA. And Narrator has a long way to go
before
it can compete with NVDA. That being the case, I believe their time
and
effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other
areas. If
NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might seem
more
significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems like
wasted
effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.
I will
not defend them in their accessibility implementation of
accessibility in
Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Mike B <mb69mach1@...>
 


My 2 cents worth:
1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
Take care.
Mike
Sent from my iBarstool.  Go Dodgers!

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Once you have successfully logged in, you should click the
link in the Email again.  LOL I guess I shouldn't have bothered.  I forgot about the need to log in.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carlos,
 
I also clicked on ‘vote’ and it took me to logon so I did the password thing and it took me to a subscriptions page, I clicked on TechTalk and it took me to the TechTalk page but no ‘vote’ option.
 
Marvin
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 9:39 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll
 

A new poll has been created:

Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.

 

1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
2. I never use Narrator
3. I use Narrator regularly

Vote Now


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