Date   

Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Matt
 

I have no idea what you are talking about! That is if you are talking to me!


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:36 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Have you forgotten Window-Eyes, if you know it at all?

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well I think MS is going somewhere but very slowly with Narrator. It is slowly becoming better and better! here is my three main screen readers in order. Jaws, NVDA and Narrator!
Yes Narrator has a long way to go will it get there ? No one really knows that answer for sure but MS!


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:01 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Yeah, but they might be going somewhere with it which we don't know about just yet. Some of the features discussed in the article seem as though they may have been influenced by general screen reader tech.

They might first want to start with the Windows OS then ultimately create a VoiceOver competitor for future Windows devices.

With technology advancing as it does, why not accept the help from one of the biggest computer software developers in the world? Furthermore, this development might yield discoveries which will help with other related disabilities experienced by an aging population.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and somewhat
excessive in my opinion. How many people really use Narrator on a daily
basis? The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an emergency or to
finish setting up Windows. It is useful and convenient to have, but for
most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a primary screen
reader. These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen
readers will most likely use NVDA. And Narrator has a long way to go before
it can compete with NVDA. That being the case, I believe their time and
effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other areas. If
NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might seem more
significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems like wasted
effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it. I will
not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in
Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below.

Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still
dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog? Being
passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having
significant accessibility problems. Being passionate about accessibility
means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release.

And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback. It isn't
incredible. It's useful and good feedback but incredible? You aren't
accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide
feedback but patronizing them. We don't want to be called incredible nor
our feedback. We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate.
And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to
know about it? Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely
offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute. If your
accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for
fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common
knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher Hallsworth <mailto:challsworth2@icloud.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/>

Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update

With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world,
Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work
for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details
about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant
step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We
encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update
becomes available. We also recognize that we must continue to invest in
accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in
features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of
experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of
Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want
to wait to upgrade, don’t forget that you will still have the opportunity
to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends.
We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take
advantage of the free upgrade offer.

We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider
program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those
areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows
Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to
helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving
the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of
experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well
as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps
and experiences.

Improved Screen Reading with Narrator

As we’ve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with
Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update
were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes
include:

Faster text to speech voices

We’ve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of
speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per
minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800
words per minute.

New languages in Narrator

We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including
Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be
available either with the corresponding international version of Windows
or will be available for download.

Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil)
Arabic (Egypt) Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark)
Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway) Dutch (Belgium)
Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish (Sweden)
Turkish (Turkey)
More familiar keyboard navigation

Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other
screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure
better ergonomics, making them easier to type.

Introducing scan mode

We’ve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan
Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in
Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as
following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.

Six levels of verbosity

Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details
about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by
pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose
mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might
hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get
varying indications of other text properties, like text color or
formatting.

Punctuation Modes

Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear
when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle
through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include
none, some, most, all and math along with default.

Now announcing AutoSuggest results

Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter
information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an
application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are
entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio
indication when these suggestions are available.

Feedback made easy

Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us
feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit
comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.

User guides and documentation

Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources
available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking
forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an
updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the
Anniversary Update is released.

Working to make apps and experiences more accessible

Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our
app teams have also been making regular updates. Below are a few of the
notable highlights.

More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge

In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing
detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team
has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards
is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the
introduction of Microsoft Edge’s new accessibility architecture, we are
working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for
everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular
third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the
transition to this new platform.

In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited
for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience
of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for
tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily
browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.

Mail

Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many
improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described
many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time
continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup
experience when using a screen reader.

Cortana

You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard,
including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are
also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible
in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes
that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools
such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.

Groove

The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users
like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support,
including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing
on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a
better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new
shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.

Making accessibility easier for developers

In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in
accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and
reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible
experiences within their apps and websites. Here are a few developer
resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows
10 anniversary Update.

New Tools

Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work. The
Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find,
triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that don’t have
an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator.
Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by
pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen
will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the
associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.

XAML Improvements

The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal
Windows Apps (UWA’s) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For
example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access
Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in
order to activate the purchase button.

Improved Documentation

And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and
update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched
the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and
sample code for accessibility.

Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility
right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to
you. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK
+ E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if
you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider
and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building
them.

Previous Blogs and Resources:

Windows

Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/further-details-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more accessible: Our path forward
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making-windows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/>
Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/accessibility-update-for-windows-10-mail/>
Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free Upgrade
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/accessibility-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/>
Microsoft Edge

Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-edge-blog-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/>
Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-edge-blog-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/>
Building a More Accessible Web Platform
<https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/building-a-more-accessible-web-platform/>
Developers

Accessibility Design guidelines
<https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibility-overview>
Accessibility Developer Hub
<https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps>


Re: How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7 #article

Carlos
 


Although the utility discussed in this article,
claims to be able to convert ribbons back to menus in Explorer.  However, this will not affect all programs which use ribbons and I have no idea if it is accessible.  I have also seen a few ad-ons which can supposedly do this for Office as well, but in that case the menu always seems to be presented as an additional tab so they don't actually replace the ribbons.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

No, I doubt that anything short of software as intrusive as a screen reader can do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kimsan
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

This classic shell of which you speak of does it take the ribbons out from windows explorer or whatever it’s called in windows 10?

I normally can get along with the ribbons but good lord it’s confusing in the aforementioned location…

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 2:18 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

 

In my case Classic Shell

took care of about 95% of anything that I missed from previous versions of Windows.

----- Original Message -----

From: Joe

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

 

I hope the article below helps someone?--Joe

 

How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

toggle-button

   

 

Windows 7 screenshotIf you want to use Windows 10 and it's new features (or have to use Windows 10 for various reasons) but would be happier with the Windows 7 interface, then this article is a must read.
The article outlines 15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7, getting you as close to the familiar Windows 7 interface as possible. Windows 10 has made some improvements over Windows 8 (bringing back the Start menu for one) but it's still quite a difference to anyone using Windows 7. With Windows 8, installing a Start Menu Replacement made Windows 8 look and act like Windows 7 for the most part. In Windows 10, it's not quite as easy.
Here's a list of the various changes that make Windows 10 more like Windows 7:

  • Windows 7 like Start Menu
  • Aero Glass Transparency
  • Disable the Lock Screen
  • Remove Cortana search box from the taskbar
  • Disable Windows Explorer ribbon
  • Disable Quick Access
  • Disable Action Center
  • Install desktop gadgets
  • Get Windows 7 like folders
  • Uninstall and remove Edge browser
  • Get rid of default modern apps
  • Use a local account to sign in
  • Enable the classic Personalization window
  • Set Windows 7 wallpaper as your desktop background

Here are two additional helpful Windows 10 articles - one on blocking Windows 10 updates (I'm not in favor of forced updates), and this article has options for Home versions of Windows 10. Windows Pro and up have some options for blocking Windows Updates that the Home version doesn't. The other one addresses six of the most common Windows 10 annoyances and how to fix them.
Block Windows 10 forced updates without breaking your machine
Six Windows 10 annoyances: How to make them go away for good

You may have noticed that there are 14 (instead of 15) items listed. I left off the "Install Windows 7 games" because the link goes to a forum where you have to register to see the information. You can find a direct link to the download listed in our article here: Get Classic Windows 7 Games in Windows 8 and 10 for Free.

15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7
 

You can find more Tech Treats here.

 

Please rate this article: 

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Comments

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 0:44

(126982)

My only concern is that after all these tweaks, will any of them break or don't work after another update of Windows 10?

Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 1:16

(126983)

Jojo,
The more you "tweak" the higher the chance of the tweak being "broken" by an update; that update does nothing but "reset" the tweak to a known good default like MIcro$oft wants it.

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 1:48

(126984)

Yes eikelein I think it's true that chances are higher for broken parts when we have more tweaks.

The problem is that we do not know if some tweaks are interlinked in the system settings contained in the registry or hidden files and how they work together.

Micro$oft might update some of them, leaving some remaining tweaked parts untouched since they were considered or supposed to be original without needing an update. It would be perfect if the tweaked parts and the updated parts can work together :) but a nightmare if not :(

Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 2:31

(126987)

Jojo,
You are correct again.

And exactly that is why I don't like to tweak at all.

I use Classic Shell; there is at least a chance that things will eventually get fixed should an update "break" it.
Worst case I just uninstall Classic Shell and live with W10 as it is meant to be.

If I really hate it I can still switch to Linux and/or run Linux in Virtual Box... ;-)

Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:40

(126995)

eikelein, how different is Classic Shell from Winaero on how it instigates changes and in your opinion do you think Winaero would have problems with updates?

Submitted by eikelein on 23. June 2016 - 1:30

(127001)

Ron525,
I guess it's about time to wish you a Happy B-Day.

To answer your question: I have no clue. Quite some time ago I found Classic Shell's description, I believe on Sourceforge.
I liked what I read and tried it; have never looked back and just don't have enough time and energy to make any kind of comparison. Sorry.

Submitted by ron525 on 23. June 2016 - 7:07

(127005)

eikelein,
Thanks.

I found Winaero being mentioned a bit on W10, W7 threads on Whirlpool Forum AU, recommended for some tweaks, It has been around for a few years and members have used it for a fair amount of time with no issues being raised.

I don't have it installed on my daily l/top at present so will run it on 2nd l/top to see if it has problems, nothing untoward happened after latest W10 update last night.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 22. June 2016 - 4:48

(126989)

There is another issue related to this in that many folks still insist on using so called registry cleaners for reasons beyond my comprehension. These things are coded to see a system in a certain state and chuck out anything that doesn't match. In so doing they are quite capable of trashing Windows and often do. A tweaked system is even more likely to be "corrected" to produce a nice blank screen at next boot . :) MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 14:01

(126976)

It appears to me as computers were evolving it was a race for the best bling i.e. good colour outstanding icon graphics.

So what happened now we have to put up with faint characters that are hard to see and often small pale colours and flat grade school quality graphics.

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 21. June 2016 - 23:49

(126980)

True, ron525, but it appears to me that technology is one thing, trend or fashion is another.

Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:31

(126994)

How true Jojo Yee, I see that issue on my Xiaomi phone adding a lot of fancy mods(many could be called bloat) far out weighs true enhancements, simplifications and fixing bugs.

But I think some of the W10 changes create more actions to get to things as well, or I still have to adjust to a different OS.
Maybe change is not liked but when one is used to a product and it it works so easily and smooth you start to question why it has been altered.

Submitted by These Old Eyes on 20. June 2016 - 20:21

(126966)

Will someone at MS please notice that the population is aging, in many cases (like mine) with diminishing ability for eyes to adjust to radically different light levels? I'd like to see a third party develop an appropriately intrusive "app" (shudder) to restore user control over background colors in Window 10, preferably within the next month!

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 20:41

(126967)

This is all I could come up, hopefully things will improve. http://www.groovypost.com/howto/using-Windows-10-improved-color-personal...

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 15:39

(126959)

Howdy, rhiannon:

Appreciate your response.

I personally am fed up with Microsoft's ANTICS... however I am dependent on Win 7 now due to software Internet Marketing software that runs on Windows only.

I have been watching Linux for years... but now able to bring myself across the threshold for business purposes... so I have to plead IGNORANCE on my part in regards to the Linux world.

Sounds to me like virtual machine or virtual box would be the way to go vs. dual boot option.

My current laptop is a:

Gateway EC5801u laptop

- Intel Core 2 Duo SU7300 1.2GHz, 4GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, 15.6" LED, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

I am starting to look for a KILLER DEAL on a :

- 15.6 **business** laptop, Quad Core i5 (at most), 16GB DDR4, 256 SSD, 1TB...

which will inevitably come with Win 10... then I will Virtual Machine UP with Linux Mint.

Open to any brilliant comments!

Thx much... ~ Alan

Submitted by abrandt on 21. June 2016 - 0:19

(126970)

Thank you, eikelein and MidnightCowboy !

Truthfully, I have neither the time or inclination to experiment with Linux.

My Linux interest does not stem from a hobby... but business application... user-friendliness and efficiency... keeping in mind I am tethered to Windows due to specialized applications needed for business.

Much appreciate. ~ Alan

Submitted by eikelein on 20. June 2016 - 22:00

(126968)

Alan,
Even for your "oldie" laptop I recommend you at least look at Linux Lite (https://www.linuxliteos.com/).
I have found it to be much more efficient with computer resources than Linux Mint which for me slowed a computer (with much more Ooomph than your laptop) down to a virtual crawl.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 20. June 2016 - 22:21

(126969)

There are many issues that determine how slow or fast a particular Linux might run on different hardware. This is a good list to experiment with although not all of these are particularly user friendly. My vote goes to MX Linux. MC - Site Manager. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-of-the-most-...

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:20

(126962)

There are several virtual machine programs around, you can check out our article here:
Best Free Virtualization Solutions

I think Midnight Cowboy runs Windows 7 in a virtual machine using Linux. Maybe he'll chime in with his preferences.

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:27

(126963)

rhiannon: Appreciate the reference article. Have read and will implement with new laptop. Thx. ~ Alan

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:39

(126964)

If you're inclined to using Virtual Box, you might find this article helpful:
VirtualBox 5.0 Released – Install on RHEL/CentOS/Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu/Linux Mint

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:46

(126965)

rhiannon: Appreciate and reviewed this 2nd vitualization reference article. THX! ~ Alan

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 3:22

(126951)

Thank you to Stephen Jackson and Bob Peterson for their clean, clear and intelligent comments.
Bob... based on your post... I am going take a more serious look at Linux Mint... even though much of my Internet Marketing software is all Win-concentric.
Thank you, ~ Alan

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 14:54

(126956)

You can run Windows "inside" Linux, as our very own Midnight Cowboy does, as a virtual machine or virtual box. Another option is to dual boot Windows and Linux.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:45

(126973)

I have never looked at running a virtual machine thought it might be complicated,
I am running dual boot W7 and Mint 17.3.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 21. June 2016 - 13:53

(126975)

It'as a lot easier than you might think. There are tons of tutorials on Youtube and the web in general, many for specific distros. This is just one example. https://www.pcsteps.com/207-windows-virtual-machine-linux-windows/. The only real issue you might encounter is getting USB recognition for the virtual system but this and anything else are bound to be documented with an appropriate fix in one of the Linux forums. MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 19. June 2016 - 12:41

(126947)

I have W7 and 10 on partitions on a Compaq l/top to see what 10 was like have found it hard to adjust but have done a lot of retro fitting with Winaero tweaker to make it feel more usable.

My daily is a Toshiba l/top partitioned with W7 and Linux Mint, Really want to move over to Mint but I don't seem to find the time at present as I am trying to keep up on the W10"s evolution.

I could kiss all the heart ache good bye If I could convince myself to only log onto Mint but I really don't understand linux at all and had zero success getting my scanner to function which I need continuously and installing other items not knowing if they are enabled or installed even at all.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 19. June 2016 - 13:30

(126950)

Just enter your scanner details into the Mint forum search and someone has bound to have encountered the same issue before and obtained a fix. I use a HP Deskjet for instance and it's just a matter of installing the appropriate driver using Synaptic. MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:50

(126974)

I will do that I did try google with specific for the LiDE 110 but found nothing, tried Canon but they don't support Linux for it.

Submitted by lunchbeast on 18. June 2016 - 18:33

(126944)

Speaking of Luddites, how far back can we go with this 'make it look like the old version that looked and worked better'? I have always preferred the look and feel of Win2K/WinXP, and I was able to get Win7 to look very similar. If Win10 can be made to look like Win7, can Win10 be made to look like Win7 looking like Win2K/WinXP?

Submitted by rhiannon on 18. June 2016 - 20:39

(126945)

I haven't run across anything that mentions that. If anyone else knows, maybe they'll comment. :)

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Re: Ios.remove apps

Matt
 

You mmean remove the apps from history that you downloaded? If so you cannot
do that at this time. You can hide them .see link on how to do this!

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201322



Matt.from.florida@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Tomas janssen
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 3:07 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ios.remove apps

Hi. Does anyone know how to remove apps history in the app store? Regards
tomas


Re: list of resources question

Carlos
 

It is a list where the owner posts tech related news, not a discussion list.  Although members do occasionally ask tech related questions.  It is extremely low traffic since it is mostly the tech news messages from the owner though.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kimsan
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 2:13 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] list of resources question

I just viewed the list of resources, and I saw Talking Tech With Startbutton - Computer and technology related  articles.  What is that?


Re: How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7 #article

Carlos
 


No, I doubt that anything short of software as intrusive as a screen reader can do that.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kimsan
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

This classic shell of which you speak of does it take the ribbons out from windows explorer or whatever it’s called in windows 10?

I normally can get along with the ribbons but good lord it’s confusing in the aforementioned location…

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 2:18 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

 

In my case Classic Shell

took care of about 95% of anything that I missed from previous versions of Windows.

----- Original Message -----

From: Joe

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

 

I hope the article below helps someone?--Joe

 

How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

toggle-button

   

 

Windows 7 screenshotIf you want to use Windows 10 and it's new features (or have to use Windows 10 for various reasons) but would be happier with the Windows 7 interface, then this article is a must read.
The article outlines 15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7, getting you as close to the familiar Windows 7 interface as possible. Windows 10 has made some improvements over Windows 8 (bringing back the Start menu for one) but it's still quite a difference to anyone using Windows 7. With Windows 8, installing a Start Menu Replacement made Windows 8 look and act like Windows 7 for the most part. In Windows 10, it's not quite as easy.
Here's a list of the various changes that make Windows 10 more like Windows 7:

  • Windows 7 like Start Menu
  • Aero Glass Transparency
  • Disable the Lock Screen
  • Remove Cortana search box from the taskbar
  • Disable Windows Explorer ribbon
  • Disable Quick Access
  • Disable Action Center
  • Install desktop gadgets
  • Get Windows 7 like folders
  • Uninstall and remove Edge browser
  • Get rid of default modern apps
  • Use a local account to sign in
  • Enable the classic Personalization window
  • Set Windows 7 wallpaper as your desktop background

Here are two additional helpful Windows 10 articles - one on blocking Windows 10 updates (I'm not in favor of forced updates), and this article has options for Home versions of Windows 10. Windows Pro and up have some options for blocking Windows Updates that the Home version doesn't. The other one addresses six of the most common Windows 10 annoyances and how to fix them.
Block Windows 10 forced updates without breaking your machine
Six Windows 10 annoyances: How to make them go away for good

You may have noticed that there are 14 (instead of 15) items listed. I left off the "Install Windows 7 games" because the link goes to a forum where you have to register to see the information. You can find a direct link to the download listed in our article here: Get Classic Windows 7 Games in Windows 8 and 10 for Free.

15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7
 

You can find more Tech Treats here.

 

Please rate this article: 

I like thisUnlike1I dislike thisUndislike0

Hide Comments...

Comments

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 0:44

(126982)

My only concern is that after all these tweaks, will any of them break or don't work after another update of Windows 10?

Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 1:16

(126983)

Jojo,
The more you "tweak" the higher the chance of the tweak being "broken" by an update; that update does nothing but "reset" the tweak to a known good default like MIcro$oft wants it.

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 1:48

(126984)

Yes eikelein I think it's true that chances are higher for broken parts when we have more tweaks.

The problem is that we do not know if some tweaks are interlinked in the system settings contained in the registry or hidden files and how they work together.

Micro$oft might update some of them, leaving some remaining tweaked parts untouched since they were considered or supposed to be original without needing an update. It would be perfect if the tweaked parts and the updated parts can work together :) but a nightmare if not :(

Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 2:31

(126987)

Jojo,
You are correct again.

And exactly that is why I don't like to tweak at all.

I use Classic Shell; there is at least a chance that things will eventually get fixed should an update "break" it.
Worst case I just uninstall Classic Shell and live with W10 as it is meant to be.

If I really hate it I can still switch to Linux and/or run Linux in Virtual Box... ;-)

Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:40

(126995)

eikelein, how different is Classic Shell from Winaero on how it instigates changes and in your opinion do you think Winaero would have problems with updates?

Submitted by eikelein on 23. June 2016 - 1:30

(127001)

Ron525,
I guess it's about time to wish you a Happy B-Day.

To answer your question: I have no clue. Quite some time ago I found Classic Shell's description, I believe on Sourceforge.
I liked what I read and tried it; have never looked back and just don't have enough time and energy to make any kind of comparison. Sorry.

Submitted by ron525 on 23. June 2016 - 7:07

(127005)

eikelein,
Thanks.

I found Winaero being mentioned a bit on W10, W7 threads on Whirlpool Forum AU, recommended for some tweaks, It has been around for a few years and members have used it for a fair amount of time with no issues being raised.

I don't have it installed on my daily l/top at present so will run it on 2nd l/top to see if it has problems, nothing untoward happened after latest W10 update last night.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 22. June 2016 - 4:48

(126989)

There is another issue related to this in that many folks still insist on using so called registry cleaners for reasons beyond my comprehension. These things are coded to see a system in a certain state and chuck out anything that doesn't match. In so doing they are quite capable of trashing Windows and often do. A tweaked system is even more likely to be "corrected" to produce a nice blank screen at next boot . :) MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 14:01

(126976)

It appears to me as computers were evolving it was a race for the best bling i.e. good colour outstanding icon graphics.

So what happened now we have to put up with faint characters that are hard to see and often small pale colours and flat grade school quality graphics.

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 21. June 2016 - 23:49

(126980)

True, ron525, but it appears to me that technology is one thing, trend or fashion is another.

Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:31

(126994)

How true Jojo Yee, I see that issue on my Xiaomi phone adding a lot of fancy mods(many could be called bloat) far out weighs true enhancements, simplifications and fixing bugs.

But I think some of the W10 changes create more actions to get to things as well, or I still have to adjust to a different OS.
Maybe change is not liked but when one is used to a product and it it works so easily and smooth you start to question why it has been altered.

Submitted by These Old Eyes on 20. June 2016 - 20:21

(126966)

Will someone at MS please notice that the population is aging, in many cases (like mine) with diminishing ability for eyes to adjust to radically different light levels? I'd like to see a third party develop an appropriately intrusive "app" (shudder) to restore user control over background colors in Window 10, preferably within the next month!

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 20:41

(126967)

This is all I could come up, hopefully things will improve. http://www.groovypost.com/howto/using-Windows-10-improved-color-personal...

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 15:39

(126959)

Howdy, rhiannon:

Appreciate your response.

I personally am fed up with Microsoft's ANTICS... however I am dependent on Win 7 now due to software Internet Marketing software that runs on Windows only.

I have been watching Linux for years... but now able to bring myself across the threshold for business purposes... so I have to plead IGNORANCE on my part in regards to the Linux world.

Sounds to me like virtual machine or virtual box would be the way to go vs. dual boot option.

My current laptop is a:

Gateway EC5801u laptop

- Intel Core 2 Duo SU7300 1.2GHz, 4GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, 15.6" LED, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

I am starting to look for a KILLER DEAL on a :

- 15.6 **business** laptop, Quad Core i5 (at most), 16GB DDR4, 256 SSD, 1TB...

which will inevitably come with Win 10... then I will Virtual Machine UP with Linux Mint.

Open to any brilliant comments!

Thx much... ~ Alan

Submitted by abrandt on 21. June 2016 - 0:19

(126970)

Thank you, eikelein and MidnightCowboy !

Truthfully, I have neither the time or inclination to experiment with Linux.

My Linux interest does not stem from a hobby... but business application... user-friendliness and efficiency... keeping in mind I am tethered to Windows due to specialized applications needed for business.

Much appreciate. ~ Alan

Submitted by eikelein on 20. June 2016 - 22:00

(126968)

Alan,
Even for your "oldie" laptop I recommend you at least look at Linux Lite (https://www.linuxliteos.com/).
I have found it to be much more efficient with computer resources than Linux Mint which for me slowed a computer (with much more Ooomph than your laptop) down to a virtual crawl.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 20. June 2016 - 22:21

(126969)

There are many issues that determine how slow or fast a particular Linux might run on different hardware. This is a good list to experiment with although not all of these are particularly user friendly. My vote goes to MX Linux. MC - Site Manager. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-of-the-most-...

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:20

(126962)

There are several virtual machine programs around, you can check out our article here:
Best Free Virtualization Solutions

I think Midnight Cowboy runs Windows 7 in a virtual machine using Linux. Maybe he'll chime in with his preferences.

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:27

(126963)

rhiannon: Appreciate the reference article. Have read and will implement with new laptop. Thx. ~ Alan

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:39

(126964)

If you're inclined to using Virtual Box, you might find this article helpful:
VirtualBox 5.0 Released – Install on RHEL/CentOS/Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu/Linux Mint

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:46

(126965)

rhiannon: Appreciate and reviewed this 2nd vitualization reference article. THX! ~ Alan

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 3:22

(126951)

Thank you to Stephen Jackson and Bob Peterson for their clean, clear and intelligent comments.
Bob... based on your post... I am going take a more serious look at Linux Mint... even though much of my Internet Marketing software is all Win-concentric.
Thank you, ~ Alan

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 14:54

(126956)

You can run Windows "inside" Linux, as our very own Midnight Cowboy does, as a virtual machine or virtual box. Another option is to dual boot Windows and Linux.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:45

(126973)

I have never looked at running a virtual machine thought it might be complicated,
I am running dual boot W7 and Mint 17.3.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 21. June 2016 - 13:53

(126975)

It'as a lot easier than you might think. There are tons of tutorials on Youtube and the web in general, many for specific distros. This is just one example. https://www.pcsteps.com/207-windows-virtual-machine-linux-windows/. The only real issue you might encounter is getting USB recognition for the virtual system but this and anything else are bound to be documented with an appropriate fix in one of the Linux forums. MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 19. June 2016 - 12:41

(126947)

I have W7 and 10 on partitions on a Compaq l/top to see what 10 was like have found it hard to adjust but have done a lot of retro fitting with Winaero tweaker to make it feel more usable.

My daily is a Toshiba l/top partitioned with W7 and Linux Mint, Really want to move over to Mint but I don't seem to find the time at present as I am trying to keep up on the W10"s evolution.

I could kiss all the heart ache good bye If I could convince myself to only log onto Mint but I really don't understand linux at all and had zero success getting my scanner to function which I need continuously and installing other items not knowing if they are enabled or installed even at all.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 19. June 2016 - 13:30

(126950)

Just enter your scanner details into the Mint forum search and someone has bound to have encountered the same issue before and obtained a fix. I use a HP Deskjet for instance and it's just a matter of installing the appropriate driver using Synaptic. MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:50

(126974)

I will do that I did try google with specific for the LiDE 110 but found nothing, tried Canon but they don't support Linux for it.

Submitted by lunchbeast on 18. June 2016 - 18:33

(126944)

Speaking of Luddites, how far back can we go with this 'make it look like the old version that looked and worked better'? I have always preferred the look and feel of Win2K/WinXP, and I was able to get Win7 to look very similar. If Win10 can be made to look like Win7, can Win10 be made to look like Win7 looking like Win2K/WinXP?

Submitted by rhiannon on 18. June 2016 - 20:39

(126945)

I haven't run across anything that mentions that. If anyone else knows, maybe they'll comment. :)

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Ios.remove apps

Tomas janssen <janto10@...>
 

Hi. Does anyone know how to remove apps history in the app store? Regards tomas


list of resources question

Kimsan
 

I just viewed the list of resources, and I saw Talking Tech With Startbutton - Computer and technology related  articles.  What is that?


Re: dropbox

Kimsan
 

I normally just type dropbox in the search box when I can't find the lil booger.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 10:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] dropbox

Try looking for your Dropbox folder within c:\user\your name or look within the documents folder.

JR


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:02 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] dropbox

Go to Drop Box using what? The Drop Box desktop application? The Drop Box web site? Assuming you have an old enough account, you should see the public links folder using the desktop application. If you don't, I don't know why. We don't even know if this is a Windows 10 problem. Have you tried with other versions of Windows to be sure that the problem only occurs in Windows 10? I suspect this is some odd problem you are having since I don't recall ever seeing this discussed before. With all the people using Windows 10, if this were a general problem, I expect we would have seen a lot of discussion before this. You may have to contact Drop Box support.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gary Greico <mailto:pianotuner3@optimum.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 11:53 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] dropbox

When I go to dropbox on windows 10, I don't see the public folder or thedropbox folder, please advise.


Re: How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7 #article

Kimsan
 

This classic shell of which you speak of does it take the ribbons out from windows explorer or whatever it’s called in windows 10?

I normally can get along with the ribbons but good lord it’s confusing in the aforementioned location…

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 2:18 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

 

In my case Classic Shell

took care of about 95% of anything that I missed from previous versions of Windows.

----- Original Message -----

From: Joe

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

 

I hope the article below helps someone?--Joe

 

How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

toggle-button

   

 

Windows 7 screenshotIf you want to use Windows 10 and it's new features (or have to use Windows 10 for various reasons) but would be happier with the Windows 7 interface, then this article is a must read.
The article outlines 15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7, getting you as close to the familiar Windows 7 interface as possible. Windows 10 has made some improvements over Windows 8 (bringing back the Start menu for one) but it's still quite a difference to anyone using Windows 7. With Windows 8, installing a Start Menu Replacement made Windows 8 look and act like Windows 7 for the most part. In Windows 10, it's not quite as easy.
Here's a list of the various changes that make Windows 10 more like Windows 7:

  • Windows 7 like Start Menu
  • Aero Glass Transparency
  • Disable the Lock Screen
  • Remove Cortana search box from the taskbar
  • Disable Windows Explorer ribbon
  • Disable Quick Access
  • Disable Action Center
  • Install desktop gadgets
  • Get Windows 7 like folders
  • Uninstall and remove Edge browser
  • Get rid of default modern apps
  • Use a local account to sign in
  • Enable the classic Personalization window
  • Set Windows 7 wallpaper as your desktop background

Here are two additional helpful Windows 10 articles - one on blocking Windows 10 updates (I'm not in favor of forced updates), and this article has options for Home versions of Windows 10. Windows Pro and up have some options for blocking Windows Updates that the Home version doesn't. The other one addresses six of the most common Windows 10 annoyances and how to fix them.
Block Windows 10 forced updates without breaking your machine
Six Windows 10 annoyances: How to make them go away for good

You may have noticed that there are 14 (instead of 15) items listed. I left off the "Install Windows 7 games" because the link goes to a forum where you have to register to see the information. You can find a direct link to the download listed in our article here: Get Classic Windows 7 Games in Windows 8 and 10 for Free.

15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7
 

You can find more Tech Treats here.

 

Please rate this article: 

I like thisUnlike1I dislike thisUndislike0

Hide Comments...

Comments

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 0:44

(126982)

My only concern is that after all these tweaks, will any of them break or don't work after another update of Windows 10?

Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 1:16

(126983)

Jojo,
The more you "tweak" the higher the chance of the tweak being "broken" by an update; that update does nothing but "reset" the tweak to a known good default like MIcro$oft wants it.

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 1:48

(126984)

Yes eikelein I think it's true that chances are higher for broken parts when we have more tweaks.

The problem is that we do not know if some tweaks are interlinked in the system settings contained in the registry or hidden files and how they work together.

Micro$oft might update some of them, leaving some remaining tweaked parts untouched since they were considered or supposed to be original without needing an update. It would be perfect if the tweaked parts and the updated parts can work together :) but a nightmare if not :(

Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 2:31

(126987)

Jojo,
You are correct again.

And exactly that is why I don't like to tweak at all.

I use Classic Shell; there is at least a chance that things will eventually get fixed should an update "break" it.
Worst case I just uninstall Classic Shell and live with W10 as it is meant to be.

If I really hate it I can still switch to Linux and/or run Linux in Virtual Box... ;-)

Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:40

(126995)

eikelein, how different is Classic Shell from Winaero on how it instigates changes and in your opinion do you think Winaero would have problems with updates?

Submitted by eikelein on 23. June 2016 - 1:30

(127001)

Ron525,
I guess it's about time to wish you a Happy B-Day.

To answer your question: I have no clue. Quite some time ago I found Classic Shell's description, I believe on Sourceforge.
I liked what I read and tried it; have never looked back and just don't have enough time and energy to make any kind of comparison. Sorry.

Submitted by ron525 on 23. June 2016 - 7:07

(127005)

eikelein,
Thanks.

I found Winaero being mentioned a bit on W10, W7 threads on Whirlpool Forum AU, recommended for some tweaks, It has been around for a few years and members have used it for a fair amount of time with no issues being raised.

I don't have it installed on my daily l/top at present so will run it on 2nd l/top to see if it has problems, nothing untoward happened after latest W10 update last night.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 22. June 2016 - 4:48

(126989)

There is another issue related to this in that many folks still insist on using so called registry cleaners for reasons beyond my comprehension. These things are coded to see a system in a certain state and chuck out anything that doesn't match. In so doing they are quite capable of trashing Windows and often do. A tweaked system is even more likely to be "corrected" to produce a nice blank screen at next boot . :) MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 14:01

(126976)

It appears to me as computers were evolving it was a race for the best bling i.e. good colour outstanding icon graphics.

So what happened now we have to put up with faint characters that are hard to see and often small pale colours and flat grade school quality graphics.

Submitted by Jojo Yee on 21. June 2016 - 23:49

(126980)

True, ron525, but it appears to me that technology is one thing, trend or fashion is another.

Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:31

(126994)

How true Jojo Yee, I see that issue on my Xiaomi phone adding a lot of fancy mods(many could be called bloat) far out weighs true enhancements, simplifications and fixing bugs.

But I think some of the W10 changes create more actions to get to things as well, or I still have to adjust to a different OS.
Maybe change is not liked but when one is used to a product and it it works so easily and smooth you start to question why it has been altered.

Submitted by These Old Eyes on 20. June 2016 - 20:21

(126966)

Will someone at MS please notice that the population is aging, in many cases (like mine) with diminishing ability for eyes to adjust to radically different light levels? I'd like to see a third party develop an appropriately intrusive "app" (shudder) to restore user control over background colors in Window 10, preferably within the next month!

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 20:41

(126967)

This is all I could come up, hopefully things will improve. http://www.groovypost.com/howto/using-Windows-10-improved-color-personal...

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 15:39

(126959)

Howdy, rhiannon:

Appreciate your response.

I personally am fed up with Microsoft's ANTICS... however I am dependent on Win 7 now due to software Internet Marketing software that runs on Windows only.

I have been watching Linux for years... but now able to bring myself across the threshold for business purposes... so I have to plead IGNORANCE on my part in regards to the Linux world.

Sounds to me like virtual machine or virtual box would be the way to go vs. dual boot option.

My current laptop is a:

Gateway EC5801u laptop

- Intel Core 2 Duo SU7300 1.2GHz, 4GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, 15.6" LED, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

I am starting to look for a KILLER DEAL on a :

- 15.6 **business** laptop, Quad Core i5 (at most), 16GB DDR4, 256 SSD, 1TB...

which will inevitably come with Win 10... then I will Virtual Machine UP with Linux Mint.

Open to any brilliant comments!

Thx much... ~ Alan

Submitted by abrandt on 21. June 2016 - 0:19

(126970)

Thank you, eikelein and MidnightCowboy !

Truthfully, I have neither the time or inclination to experiment with Linux.

My Linux interest does not stem from a hobby... but business application... user-friendliness and efficiency... keeping in mind I am tethered to Windows due to specialized applications needed for business.

Much appreciate. ~ Alan

Submitted by eikelein on 20. June 2016 - 22:00

(126968)

Alan,
Even for your "oldie" laptop I recommend you at least look at Linux Lite (https://www.linuxliteos.com/).
I have found it to be much more efficient with computer resources than Linux Mint which for me slowed a computer (with much more Ooomph than your laptop) down to a virtual crawl.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 20. June 2016 - 22:21

(126969)

There are many issues that determine how slow or fast a particular Linux might run on different hardware. This is a good list to experiment with although not all of these are particularly user friendly. My vote goes to MX Linux. MC - Site Manager. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-of-the-most-...

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:20

(126962)

There are several virtual machine programs around, you can check out our article here:
Best Free Virtualization Solutions

I think Midnight Cowboy runs Windows 7 in a virtual machine using Linux. Maybe he'll chime in with his preferences.

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:27

(126963)

rhiannon: Appreciate the reference article. Have read and will implement with new laptop. Thx. ~ Alan

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:39

(126964)

If you're inclined to using Virtual Box, you might find this article helpful:
VirtualBox 5.0 Released – Install on RHEL/CentOS/Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu/Linux Mint

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:46

(126965)

rhiannon: Appreciate and reviewed this 2nd vitualization reference article. THX! ~ Alan

Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 3:22

(126951)

Thank you to Stephen Jackson and Bob Peterson for their clean, clear and intelligent comments.
Bob... based on your post... I am going take a more serious look at Linux Mint... even though much of my Internet Marketing software is all Win-concentric.
Thank you, ~ Alan

Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 14:54

(126956)

You can run Windows "inside" Linux, as our very own Midnight Cowboy does, as a virtual machine or virtual box. Another option is to dual boot Windows and Linux.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:45

(126973)

I have never looked at running a virtual machine thought it might be complicated,
I am running dual boot W7 and Mint 17.3.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 21. June 2016 - 13:53

(126975)

It'as a lot easier than you might think. There are tons of tutorials on Youtube and the web in general, many for specific distros. This is just one example. https://www.pcsteps.com/207-windows-virtual-machine-linux-windows/. The only real issue you might encounter is getting USB recognition for the virtual system but this and anything else are bound to be documented with an appropriate fix in one of the Linux forums. MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 19. June 2016 - 12:41

(126947)

I have W7 and 10 on partitions on a Compaq l/top to see what 10 was like have found it hard to adjust but have done a lot of retro fitting with Winaero tweaker to make it feel more usable.

My daily is a Toshiba l/top partitioned with W7 and Linux Mint, Really want to move over to Mint but I don't seem to find the time at present as I am trying to keep up on the W10"s evolution.

I could kiss all the heart ache good bye If I could convince myself to only log onto Mint but I really don't understand linux at all and had zero success getting my scanner to function which I need continuously and installing other items not knowing if they are enabled or installed even at all.

Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 19. June 2016 - 13:30

(126950)

Just enter your scanner details into the Mint forum search and someone has bound to have encountered the same issue before and obtained a fix. I use a HP Deskjet for instance and it's just a matter of installing the appropriate driver using Synaptic. MC - Site Manager.

Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:50

(126974)

I will do that I did try google with specific for the LiDE 110 but found nothing, tried Canon but they don't support Linux for it.

Submitted by lunchbeast on 18. June 2016 - 18:33

(126944)

Speaking of Luddites, how far back can we go with this 'make it look like the old version that looked and worked better'? I have always preferred the look and feel of Win2K/WinXP, and I was able to get Win7 to look very similar. If Win10 can be made to look like Win7, can Win10 be made to look like Win7 looking like Win2K/WinXP?

Submitted by rhiannon on 18. June 2016 - 20:39

(126945)

I haven't run across anything that mentions that. If anyone else knows, maybe they'll comment. :)

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Original Page: http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/how-make-windows-10-look-and-feel-windows-7.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmosbest+%28Gizmo%27s+Best-ever+Freeware%29


Re: advice needed re xP Utility problem

Carlos
 

The suggestion is really only worth consideration if it is a new package of discs and a brand you haven't previously tried.  If you have successfully used discs from this package or the same brand in the past, then the brand may not be the cause of the problem.  You could also try System Restore if you think the utility is simply not functioning correctly.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] advice needed re xP Utility problem

Thanks carlos, I will try another brand Thanks again Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] advice needed re xP Utility problem

Is it a new package of discs?  Some burners have problems with different brands of blank discs.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:54 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] advice needed re xP Utility problem

Hi list, to put the problem simply my X P  Utility burner         suddenly  wont  recognise a blank disk, I have tried numerous  Blanks   still no  recognition, , but no problems  reading mp3 or Wav disks   .Any advise will be much appreciated. Alan

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12546 - Release Date: 07/02/16


Re: advice needed re xP Utility problem

Alan Pollard
 

Thanks carlos, I will try another brand Thanks again Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] advice needed re xP Utility problem

Is it a new package of discs?  Some burners have problems with different brands of blank discs.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:54 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] advice needed re xP Utility problem

Hi list, to put the problem simply my X P  Utility burner         suddenly  wont  recognise a blank disk, I have tried numerous  Blanks   still no  recognition, , but no problems  reading mp3 or Wav disks   .Any advise will be much appreciated. Alan

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12546 - Release Date: 07/02/16


Re: jaws question!

Carlos
 


Probably with a Custom Highlight.  Place the JAWS cursor on a section of text containing the colors you want to be spoken, press JAWS key+F2, and select
"Custom Highlight Assign"
Note that you should leave the JAWS cursor active until you select the
"Custom Highlight Assign"
option.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] jaws question!

How would I make it so that JFW only alerts to a specific color, say, yellow text? At home I couldn't care less, but at work, yellow indicates things that need to be read verbatim, and things can change any time. I've been lucky to not get caught out missing any, but there are a few pesky places where the two different systems have slightly different variations on the required text, one might or might not be the yellow one though.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] jaws question!

For once I'm guessing since I'm not sure about this setting, but you can try the following.
 
1. Press JAWS key and 6 to open the Settings Center.
 
2. Press Control Shift D to open the default configuration file.
 
3. Tab to the treeview and arrow down to
"Text Analyzer"
 
4. Press the Right Arrow key to expand it.
 
5. Arrow down to
"Font Changes to Check"
 
6. Press the Right Arrow key to expand it.
 
7. Uncheck the items
"Name"
and
"Color"
and possibly
"Size"
and
"Attributes"
as well depending on how much unwanted feedback you are receiving.
 
8. Select the
"OK"
button to close the Settings Center and save the changes.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:15 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] jaws question!

I just got my computer back working today. I had to have a new power supply put in. now I am back and running on it, but Jaws is now telling me the font and color in messages. very irritating and I cannot find where to change the setting. help please! I really don’t care what font or background there is visible.
thanks in advance! Dave oh, jaws 17 on W8.1


Re: jaws question!

Brent Harding
 


How would I make it so that JFW only alerts to a specific color, say, yellow text? At home I couldn't care less, but at work, yellow indicates things that need to be read verbatim, and things can change any time. I've been lucky to not get caught out missing any, but there are a few pesky places where the two different systems have slightly different variations on the required text, one might or might not be the yellow one though.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] jaws question!

For once I'm guessing since I'm not sure about this setting, but you can try the following.
 
1. Press JAWS key and 6 to open the Settings Center.
 
2. Press Control Shift D to open the default configuration file.
 
3. Tab to the treeview and arrow down to
"Text Analyzer"
 
4. Press the Right Arrow key to expand it.
 
5. Arrow down to
"Font Changes to Check"
 
6. Press the Right Arrow key to expand it.
 
7. Uncheck the items
"Name"
and
"Color"
and possibly
"Size"
and
"Attributes"
as well depending on how much unwanted feedback you are receiving.
 
8. Select the
"OK"
button to close the Settings Center and save the changes.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:15 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] jaws question!

I just got my computer back working today. I had to have a new power supply put in. now I am back and running on it, but Jaws is now telling me the font and color in messages. very irritating and I cannot find where to change the setting. help please! I really don’t care what font or background there is visible.
thanks in advance! Dave oh, jaws 17 on W8.1


Re: advice needed re xP Utility problem

Carlos
 

Is it a new package of discs?  Some burners have problems with different brands of blank discs.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:54 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] advice needed re xP Utility problem

Hi list, to put the problem simply my X P  Utility burner         suddenly  wont  recognise a blank disk, I have tried numerous  Blanks   still no  recognition, , but no problems  reading mp3 or Wav disks   .Any advise will be much appreciated. Alan


advice needed re xP Utility problem

Alan Pollard
 

Hi list, to put the problem simply my X P  Utility burner         suddenly  wont  recognise a blank disk, I have tried numerous  Blanks   still no  recognition, , but no problems  reading mp3 or Wav disks   .Any advise will be much appreciated. Alan


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Carlos
 

Indeed, or vice versa. I recall someone on another list recently having a problem with a website using Chrome which worked fine in Firefox and IE.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


In terms of accessibility, It's one of those glass is half-empty or half-full arguments as regards Chrome with JAWS. I think it's at least half full now. Chrome works best in a few situations where neither Internet Explorer or Firefox does well. (I'm thinking of an online form I had to fill in in 2015.) It seems to have a simpler interface.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:24 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well I have been always a IE man most of the time! Now let's talk about chrome ! Just how accessible is Chrome with Jaws the last time I tried it it was not very good.


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Aidan
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I must agree with jean and carlos here. As long as we as blind people keep making excuses for microsoft then we should not be surprise where it goes. Its not exceptable what they are doing for the last few years, and nothing they say will change my attidute towards them. Now its time for practise, to show us what they really can do. Its easy to talk. There are many developers asking for feedback and doing nothing about it wich prove that feedback alone is no way to be sure if the product will improve. Microsoft does not care about accessibility and I keep to that statement until they prove me wrong. These smaller changes we see now is just to keep us in a so called more happyer zone because they know there are people like rj wich will buy into that nonsense. And why can we not complain? We have every write to complain. Accessibility is a rite, and we shall keep enforcing and demanding it. Yes your attitude must be write but in this case ms is more than aware of the reality of the situation. They know they are guilty but they won't admit it to the public. To keep saying things like "at least they will do something" is a waste of time and it bring us no where. Either they deliver or the other screenreaders get stronger. And why shall I use the simpel ej browser anyway if firefox and chrome work so well?

On 02/07/2016, Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I didn't say that other screen readers would just disappear, but I
believe that third-party developers might have less incentive to
invest much time and effort in serious development if a full-blown
screen reader were built-in. The screen reader market already has a
limited margin for profit

and Microsoft would always have the edge in terms of adding new
features if

they became seriously invested in Narrator. Consumers might also have
less

incentive to purchase third-party screen readers if most of the
functionality they need were already included in Windows. Windows is
not Android. The alternatives are either very expensive or free in
the case of

NVDA. In the case of more expensive screen readers, consumers would
almost

always choose the fully functional option that is built-in and does
not cost

nearly $1000. Organizations which provide sponsorship for obtaining
computers would also have less reason to purchase screen readers like JAWS.

Of course some people might think this is a good thing, but if sales
of JAWS

were to drop significantly, eventually it might make continuing to
produce the product unviable which in turn means fewer options. It is
hard to say whether NVDA would be affected, but the development of
NVDA is supported partially by donations and partially by the
motivation of the developers, either of which could potentially be
affected by the inclusion of a full-blown screen reader in Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10

Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Hi Carlos,
I deleted your original post, but, know how you're saying Mac? To my
knowledge, talkBack is built into android, yet, there's another one
called ShinePlus. I wonder, if, say, MS made a fully built in screen
reader, as long as windows was opened, I can't see why something like
would NVDA died. Apple is different, as their system is not opened.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@outlook.com
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:11:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

No it wouldn't. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
Whether Narrator becomes a full-blown screen reader some day, it has
a long way to go. And in my opinion, making Narrator a full-blown
screen reader would only stifle development for the competition. It
is good to have options and Macs are a good example of what happens
when a full-blown screen reader is built-in to the operating system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@outlook.com
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


I am not usually one to use this type of strong language, but really?
How do you think NVDA and Jaws got to where they are? Feedback!
Let's
all give narrator a chance. Microsoft alone won't make the
screenreader, but together, the end users,(Us the blind community)
will make Narrator a screenreader which could even beat out voice
over if we really wanted it bad enough. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:19 PM, Marie wrote:
I find Narrator useful on occasion, but it is far from being a full
screen reader and I would hate it if they made it like the Apple
devices where it is your only choice.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

If they are going somewhere with Narrator, then they should simply
release a major upgrade when it is ready to be used as a full-blown
screen reader. At this point it is wasted effort to introduce these
minor changes since it is still not functional enough to be used by
most on a daily basis.
Gradually
introducing features that most people probably won't use because
there is a better free alternative seems like effort that could be
more productively invested somewhere else for now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Yeah, but they might be going somewhere with it which we don't know
about just yet. Some of the features discussed in the article seem
as though they may have been influenced by general screen reader
tech.

They might first want to start with the Windows OS then ultimately
create a VoiceOver competitor for future Windows devices.

With technology advancing as it does, why not accept the help from
one of the biggest computer software developers in the world?
Furthermore,
this
development might yield discoveries which will help with other
related disabilities experienced by an aging population.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and
somewhat excessive in my opinion. How many people really use
Narrator on a daily basis? The fact is that most users only run
Narrator in an emergency or to finish setting up Windows. It is
useful and convenient to have, but for most it does not provide
enough functionality to be used as a primary screen reader. These
days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen readers will
most likely use NVDA. And Narrator has a long way to go before it
can compete with NVDA. That being the case, I believe their time and
effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other
areas. If NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator
might seem more significant, but again in my opinion at this time,
it just seems like wasted effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.
I will
not defend them in their accessibility implementation of
accessibility in Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below






--
Facebook: m.facebook.com/aidan.maher92
Skype: andries4451
Twitter: smarttalk7
Audioboo: www.audioboo.com/DjSpotlight









Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Flor Lynch
 

In terms of accessibility, It's one of those glass is half-empty or half-full arguments as regards Chrome with JAWS. I think it's at least half full now. Chrome works best in a few situations where neither Internet Explorer or Firefox does well. (I'm thinking of an online form I had to fill in in 2015.) It seems to have a simpler interface.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:24 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well I have been always a IE man most of the time! Now let's talk about chrome ! Just how accessible is Chrome with Jaws the last time I tried it it was not very good.


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Aidan
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I must agree with jean and carlos here. As long as we as blind people keep making excuses for microsoft then we should not be surprise where it goes. Its not exceptable what they are doing for the last few years, and nothing they say will change my attidute towards them. Now its time for practise, to show us what they really can do. Its easy to talk. There are many developers asking for feedback and doing nothing about it wich prove that feedback alone is no way to be sure if the product will improve. Microsoft does not care about accessibility and I keep to that statement until they prove me wrong. These smaller changes we see now is just to keep us in a so called more happyer zone because they know there are people like rj wich will buy into that nonsense. And why can we not complain? We have every write to complain. Accessibility is a rite, and we shall keep enforcing and demanding it. Yes your attitude must be write but in this case ms is more than aware of the reality of the situation. They know they are guilty but they won't admit it to the public. To keep saying things like "at least they will do something" is a waste of time and it bring us no where. Either they deliver or the other screenreaders get stronger. And why shall I use the simpel ej browser anyway if firefox and chrome work so well?

On 02/07/2016, Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I didn't say that other screen readers would just disappear, but I
believe that third-party developers might have less incentive to
invest much time and effort in serious development if a full-blown
screen reader were built-in. The screen reader market already has a
limited margin for profit

and Microsoft would always have the edge in terms of adding new
features if

they became seriously invested in Narrator. Consumers might also have
less

incentive to purchase third-party screen readers if most of the
functionality they need were already included in Windows. Windows is
not Android. The alternatives are either very expensive or free in
the case of

NVDA. In the case of more expensive screen readers, consumers would
almost

always choose the fully functional option that is built-in and does
not cost

nearly $1000. Organizations which provide sponsorship for obtaining
computers would also have less reason to purchase screen readers like JAWS.

Of course some people might think this is a good thing, but if sales
of JAWS

were to drop significantly, eventually it might make continuing to
produce the product unviable which in turn means fewer options. It is
hard to say whether NVDA would be affected, but the development of
NVDA is supported partially by donations and partially by the
motivation of the developers, either of which could potentially be
affected by the inclusion of a full-blown screen reader in Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10

Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Hi Carlos,
I deleted your original post, but, know how you're saying Mac? To my
knowledge, talkBack is built into android, yet, there's another one
called ShinePlus. I wonder, if, say, MS made a fully built in screen
reader, as long as windows was opened, I can't see why something like
would NVDA died. Apple is different, as their system is not opened.

Sent from a BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@outlook.com
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:11:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

No it wouldn't. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
Whether Narrator becomes a full-blown screen reader some day, it has
a long way to go. And in my opinion, making Narrator a full-blown
screen reader would only stifle development for the competition. It
is good to have options and Macs are a good example of what happens
when a full-blown screen reader is built-in to the operating system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <manbatsandefur@outlook.com
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


I am not usually one to use this type of strong language, but really?
How do you think NVDA and Jaws got to where they are? Feedback!
Let's
all give narrator a chance. Microsoft alone won't make the
screenreader, but together, the end users,(Us the blind community)
will make Narrator a screenreader which could even beat out voice
over if we really wanted it bad enough. RJ


On 7/2/2016 1:19 PM, Marie wrote:
I find Narrator useful on occasion, but it is far from being a full
screen reader and I would hate it if they made it like the Apple
devices where it is your only choice.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

If they are going somewhere with Narrator, then they should simply
release a major upgrade when it is ready to be used as a full-blown
screen reader. At this point it is wasted effort to introduce these
minor changes since it is still not functional enough to be used by
most on a daily basis.
Gradually
introducing features that most people probably won't use because
there is a better free alternative seems like effort that could be
more productively invested somewhere else for now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Yeah, but they might be going somewhere with it which we don't know
about just yet. Some of the features discussed in the article seem
as though they may have been influenced by general screen reader
tech.

They might first want to start with the Windows OS then ultimately
create a VoiceOver competitor for future Windows devices.

With technology advancing as it does, why not accept the help from
one of the biggest computer software developers in the world?
Furthermore,
this
development might yield discoveries which will help with other
related disabilities experienced by an aging population.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and
somewhat excessive in my opinion. How many people really use
Narrator on a daily basis? The fact is that most users only run
Narrator in an emergency or to finish setting up Windows. It is
useful and convenient to have, but for most it does not provide
enough functionality to be used as a primary screen reader. These
days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen readers will
most likely use NVDA. And Narrator has a long way to go before it
can compete with NVDA. That being the case, I believe their time and
effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other
areas. If NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator
might seem more significant, but again in my opinion at this time,
it just seems like wasted effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the
Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.
I will
not defend them in their accessibility implementation of
accessibility in Windows 10. My thoughts on the blog entry are below






--
Facebook: m.facebook.com/aidan.maher92
Skype: andries4451
Twitter: smarttalk7
Audioboo: www.audioboo.com/DjSpotlight


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Jim Wohlgamuth
 

Well, that is my point exactly.  It is more a matter of what you are use to.  Yes Gene, I think the copy and paste feature that GW-Micro adopted was totally unnecessary and Since I have used W.E. for about 8 years now I haven't really found any real difficulties aside from there release of version 8 which wasn't all that great in my opinion.  But like I said, people use what they are most comfortable with-and W9indow-Eyes happens to be what I am most comfortable with.  For long-time users of JAWs I strongly suspect they feel the same way about what they are using.  Just My 'nonprofessional opinion>.   

On 02-Jul-16 19:52, Gene wrote:
A gross overgeneralization.  In certain specific situations, Window-eyes may be better.  They made some improvements a year or two ago that may help in certain specific situations.  They don't apply or help in most.  And the developers of Window-eyes adopted nonstandard copy and paste commands.  I consider that completely unacceptable.  You don't abandon standard Windows commands unless there is a compelling reason to do so. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

You using Edge lends credence to what a Window Eyes told me:

She said that JAWS was mostly a better and easier to use
screen reader, but that Window Eyes was better on the Net.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Wohlgamuth
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility
with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft
Accessibility Blog

Hi there


 Marie and Group! I agree with marie and yes there is a long
way to go to improve accessibility I am now using my
computer in ways that I never thought I could.  There are
still a lot of programs that need a great deal of work but
the fact that we are  able to discuss it at  all says a
great deal for just how far accessibilty has  come.  Yes I
do use Edge to a very small degree and it does work <Nothing
to write home about though>. Yes I am using Window-Eyes and
have never really used JAWs except when I am at the local
Michigan Works office.  Oh and I have used it to a smaller
degree at the local library.  Personally I still prefer W.E.
Although I think that is more a matter of what you are used
to using.  In any event, we will just have to wait and see
just what MicroSoft actually comes up with before we really
start screaming<SMILE!>  Just my thoughts.  Have A Good 1!
de
<KF8LT><Jim>.    

On 02-Jul-16 18:00, Marie wrote:


While this is true, I have upgraded 3 computers to
Win 10 with no sighted assistance only because the
improvements to Narrator allowed me to use it for the
process. And , for one think we should applaud every effort
made to increase accessibility. We have to remember that we
are a small percentage of the population and I appreciate
what we have and are able to do with the technology
provided.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:46 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on
accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update |
Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Edge was mentioned as one of the items who's
accessibility is being
improved.  I guess my point is that when I'm reading
about improvements to
accessibility, I find it difficult to become
enthusiastic about improvements
to Narrator which I know I personally won't be
using.  And I suspect most
other users who are honest with themselves know they
generally won't be
using them either.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob"
<captinlogic@...> <mailto:captinlogic@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on
accessibility with the Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Carlos <carlos1106@...>
<mailto:carlos1106@...>  wrote:


Gradually introducing features that most
people probably won't use because there is a
better free alternative seems like effort
that could be more productively
invested somewhere else for now.



Shouldn't they be working on making Edge more
accessible? I am not using it,
but based on the mutterings from the natives, it's
barely usable with screen
readers. What is the deal behind that anyway?


















Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Gene
 

A gross overgeneralization.  In certain specific situations, Window-eyes may be better.  They made some improvements a year or two ago that may help in certain specific situations.  They don't apply or help in most.  And the developers of Window-eyes adopted nonstandard copy and paste commands.  I consider that completely unacceptable.  You don't abandon standard Windows commands unless there is a compelling reason to do so. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

You using Edge lends credence to what a Window Eyes told me:

She said that JAWS was mostly a better and easier to use
screen reader, but that Window Eyes was better on the Net.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Wohlgamuth
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility
with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft
Accessibility Blog

Hi there


 Marie and Group! I agree with marie and yes there is a long
way to go to improve accessibility I am now using my
computer in ways that I never thought I could.  There are
still a lot of programs that need a great deal of work but
the fact that we are  able to discuss it at  all says a
great deal for just how far accessibilty has  come.  Yes I
do use Edge to a very small degree and it does work <Nothing
to write home about though>. Yes I am using Window-Eyes and
have never really used JAWs except when I am at the local
Michigan Works office.  Oh and I have used it to a smaller
degree at the local library.  Personally I still prefer W.E.
Although I think that is more a matter of what you are used
to using.  In any event, we will just have to wait and see
just what MicroSoft actually comes up with before we really
start screaming<SMILE!>  Just my thoughts.  Have A Good 1!
de
<KF8LT><Jim>.    

On 02-Jul-16 18:00, Marie wrote:


While this is true, I have upgraded 3 computers to
Win 10 with no sighted assistance only because the
improvements to Narrator allowed me to use it for the
process. And , for one think we should applaud every effort
made to increase accessibility. We have to remember that we
are a small percentage of the population and I appreciate
what we have and are able to do with the technology
provided.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:46 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on
accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update |
Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Edge was mentioned as one of the items who's
accessibility is being
improved.  I guess my point is that when I'm reading
about improvements to
accessibility, I find it difficult to become
enthusiastic about improvements
to Narrator which I know I personally won't be
using.  And I suspect most
other users who are honest with themselves know they
generally won't be
using them either.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob"
<captinlogic@...> <mailto:captinlogic@...
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on
accessibility with the Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Carlos <carlos1106@...>
<mailto:carlos1106@...>  wrote:


Gradually introducing features that most
people probably won't use because there is a
better free alternative seems like effort
that could be more productively
invested somewhere else for now.



Shouldn't they be working on making Edge more
accessible? I am not using it,
but based on the mutterings from the natives, it's
barely usable with screen
readers. What is the deal behind that anyway?

















Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Carolyn Arnold
 

You using Edge lends credence to what a Window Eyes told me:

She said that JAWS was mostly a better and easier to use
screen reader, but that Window Eyes was better on the Net.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Wohlgamuth
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility
with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft
Accessibility Blog

Hi there


Marie and Group! I agree with marie and yes there is a long
way to go to improve accessibility I am now using my
computer in ways that I never thought I could. There are
still a lot of programs that need a great deal of work but
the fact that we are able to discuss it at all says a
great deal for just how far accessibilty has come. Yes I
do use Edge to a very small degree and it does work <Nothing
to write home about though>. Yes I am using Window-Eyes and
have never really used JAWs except when I am at the local
Michigan Works office. Oh and I have used it to a smaller
degree at the local library. Personally I still prefer W.E.
Although I think that is more a matter of what you are used
to using. In any event, we will just have to wait and see
just what MicroSoft actually comes up with before we really
start screaming<SMILE!> Just my thoughts. Have A Good 1!
de
<KF8LT><Jim>.

On 02-Jul-16 18:00, Marie wrote:


While this is true, I have upgraded 3 computers to
Win 10 with no sighted assistance only because the
improvements to Narrator allowed me to use it for the
process. And , for one think we should applaud every effort
made to increase accessibility. We have to remember that we
are a small percentage of the population and I appreciate
what we have and are able to do with the technology
provided.
Marie


-----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:46 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on
accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update |
Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Edge was mentioned as one of the items who's
accessibility is being
improved. I guess my point is that when I'm reading
about improvements to
accessibility, I find it difficult to become
enthusiastic about improvements
to Narrator which I know I personally won't be
using. And I suspect most
other users who are honest with themselves know they
generally won't be
using them either.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob"
<captinlogic@gmail.com> <mailto:captinlogic@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on
accessibility with the Windows 10
Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog


Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
<mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:


Gradually introducing features that most
people probably won't use because there is a
better free alternative seems like effort
that could be more productively
invested somewhere else for now.



Shouldn't they be working on making Edge more
accessible? I am not using it,
but based on the mutterings from the natives, it's
barely usable with screen
readers. What is the deal behind that anyway?

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