Date   

How to make two different email alerts for two different accounts

 

Hi group,
I have two different email accounts and I'm not sure how to set it up so that it will alert me when I have a new email I use voiceover and currently when I touch the mail icon at the bottom of my screen it says no mail but however when I go into it it shows me that I have new emails.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ashley

Sent from my iPhone


Re: fn key and jaws key issue

Michael Amaro
 

    I tried using the fn key with the f12 and f11 keys all it says is f11 and f12.  It doesn't do what its supposed to. I also tried going to the mobility center.  I didn't see anything about changing keyboard functions.

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] fn key and jaws key issue

The standard F key operations are probably reversed which is common on many laptops.   In such cases, the F keys will perform their normal function in combination with the Fn key.  You can usually change this behavior either in the BIOS, with a manufacturer supplied utility, or Mobility Center depending on the brand/model.  With some Dell laptops you can change this behavior in Mobility Center.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 2:10 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] fn key and jaws key issue

Hello Listers,
 
I am running windows 10 pro jaws 17.  I found out that when I disconnect my USB keyboard and I try to use the jaws key plus f11 or jaws plus f12 functions via the laptop keyboard.  I have to use the fn key in order to make them work.  How do I make it so I don't have to use the fn key?
 
thanks
 
Michael
 
email/skype:
 
 
JFK"
 
What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace - - the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living -- the kind that enables man and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children - - not merely peace for Americans by peace for all men and women - - not merely peace in our time but peace for all time."


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Pamela Dominguez
 

I haven't gotten into this topic, but if they make marrator do everything that a screenreader needs to do, nobody will need jaws, window eyes or the other ones. Why would it matter if they made narrator into this super dooper screenreader that does everything? Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 1:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Well that is the problem. Is that most will evently die! As they will not have the funds! Why would you pay 1000 bucks or more for a screen reader when you can get one that is free and built in the system that will do all you want it to do! It will very much hurt JFW. It would more than likely hurt NVDA as people would not donate to it and they needs funds to survive. I can see some that is working and need the features JFW has buying it or getting a government agency to buy it for them but the ones that had to buy out of the pocket would I don't think buy it or keep putting out the SMA every two years. Then when Narrator got really robust and close to JFW then government agency might very well just say why should we buy one when it is built in to the system free! I just don't see this being good. Yes this is the way the business world works the strong survives and I think if narrator got good enough it would kill the other screen readers and they would go out of business and end up leaving us with just one screen reader and if it did not do what you wanted then you would be out of luck, The only one I see could survive a robust Narrator would be NVDA!


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 1:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
As I stated in a previous message, I believe a full-blown screen
reader would give Microsoft an unfair advantage >
and might stifle 3rd-party developers.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Whereas apple is a closed platform with very few options, Windows is (relatively) open; and if there is a built in screen reader, developers will just work harder to make theirs a better option.
That's how business works. You work harder to make yours the best option possible, or you die. Be it a cafe, an audio editing solution, or a screen reader.










-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12563 - Release Date: 07/05/16


Re: fn key and jaws key issue

Carlos
 

The standard F key operations are probably reversed which is common on many laptops.   In such cases, the F keys will perform their normal function in combination with the Fn key.  You can usually change this behavior either in the BIOS, with a manufacturer supplied utility, or Mobility Center depending on the brand/model.  With some Dell laptops you can change this behavior in Mobility Center.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 2:10 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] fn key and jaws key issue

Hello Listers,
 
I am running windows 10 pro jaws 17.  I found out that when I disconnect my USB keyboard and I try to use the jaws key plus f11 or jaws plus f12 functions via the laptop keyboard.  I have to use the fn key in order to make them work.  How do I make it so I don't have to use the fn key?
 
thanks
 
Michael
 
email/skype:
 
 
JFK"
 
What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace - - the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living -- the kind that enables man and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children - - not merely peace for Americans by peace for all men and women - - not merely peace in our time but peace for all time."


fn key and jaws key issue

Michael Amaro
 

Hello Listers,
 
I am running windows 10 pro jaws 17.  I found out that when I disconnect my USB keyboard and I try to use the jaws key plus f11 or jaws plus f12 functions via the laptop keyboard.  I have to use the fn key in order to make them work.  How do I make it so I don't have to use the fn key?
 
thanks
 
Michael
 
email/skype:
 
 
JFK"
 
What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace - - the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living -- the kind that enables man and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children - - not merely peace for Americans by peace for all men and women - - not merely peace in our time but peace for all time."


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Pamela Dominguez
 

They have already done that at various times. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:41 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible. It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture. The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome. I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install. That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader? The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support. Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time. However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist. 3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons. If developers of the alternatives were to lose financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options. Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.

I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible. It has been a year since the release of Windows 10. Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator. Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile. However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior? And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader. At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader. If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10. And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well? I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list. The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible. Edge is not properly accessible. And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> lists@thekingstech.com <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
screen reader? #poll


Hi.

Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
option.

I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.

I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
along that line that ms is doing.

In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
can use.

Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
because they aren't keeping up.



On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
enough for it to warrant this much attention. Certainly not at the
expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi,
Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll

I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
with what consumers are actually requesting. In other words, they
hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll


I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
know from experience.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll

So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
would be better off investing more time and effort improving
accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@ml1.net> mailto:tl1@ml1.net>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll


I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
Narrator.



TerriLynne



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
screen reader? #poll



I only use Narrator for emergencies.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
screen
reader? #poll



A new poll has been created:

Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.



1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
2. I never use Narrator
3. I use Narrator regularly

Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
































-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12563 - Release Date: 07/05/16


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carlos
 

Exactly. Yes screen readers like JAWS might still have an edge in the work environment, but that might not be enough to keep it viable. Also, you cannot really compare a screen reader to other types of mainstream software like audio editors which have a significantly broader consumer base. The screen reader market has a much more limited margin for profit.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt.from.florida@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Well that is the problem. Is that most will evently die! As they will not have the funds! Why would you pay 1000 bucks or more for a screen reader when you can get one that is free and built in the system that will do all you want it to do! It will very much hurt JFW. It would more than likely hurt NVDA as people would not donate to it and they needs funds to survive. I can see some that is working and need the features JFW has buying it or getting a government agency to buy it for them but the ones that had to buy out of the pocket would I don't think buy it or keep putting out the SMA every two years. Then when Narrator got really robust and close to JFW then government agency might very well just say why should we buy one when it is built in to the system free! I just don't see this being good. Yes this is the way the business world works the strong survives and I think if narrator got good enough it would kill the other screen readers and they would go out of business and end up leaving us with just one screen reader and if it did not do what you wanted then you would be out of luck, The only one I see could survive a robust Narrator would be NVDA!


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 1:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
As I stated in a previous message, I believe a full-blown screen
reader would give Microsoft an unfair advantage >
and might stifle 3rd-party developers.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Whereas apple is a closed platform with very few options, Windows is (relatively) open; and if there is a built in screen reader, developers will just work harder to make theirs a better option.
That's how business works. You work harder to make yours the best option possible, or you die. Be it a cafe, an audio editing solution, or a screen reader.


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Matt
 

Well that is the problem. Is that most will evently die! As they will not have the funds! Why would you pay 1000 bucks or more for a screen reader when you can get one that is free and built in the system that will do all you want it to do! It will very much hurt JFW. It would more than likely hurt NVDA as people would not donate to it and they needs funds to survive. I can see some that is working and need the features JFW has buying it or getting a government agency to buy it for them but the ones that had to buy out of the pocket would I don't think buy it or keep putting out the SMA every two years. Then when Narrator got really robust and close to JFW then government agency might very well just say why should we buy one when it is built in to the system free! I just don't see this being good. Yes this is the way the business world works the strong survives and I think if narrator got good enough it would kill the other screen readers and they would go out of business and end up leaving us with just one screen reader and if it did not do what you wanted then you would be out of luck, The only one I see could survive a robust Narrator would be NVDA!


Matt.from.florida@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 1:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
As I stated in a previous message, I believe a full-blown screen
reader would give Microsoft an unfair advantage >
and might stifle 3rd-party developers.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Whereas apple is a closed platform with very few options, Windows is (relatively) open; and if there is a built in screen reader, developers will just work harder to make theirs a better option.
That's how business works. You work harder to make yours the best option possible, or you die. Be it a cafe, an audio editing solution, or a screen reader.


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carlos
 

Whether it is an open platform or not, very few people are going to pay for or donate to support an alternative screen reader if what is built-in already does most of what you want. Especially when most blind consumers have limited incomes. The majority of consumers will use the least expensive and most convenient option.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob" <captinlogic@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
As I stated in a previous message, I believe a full-blown screen reader would give Microsoft an unfair advantage >
and might stifle 3rd-party developers.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Whereas apple is a closed platform with very few options, Windows is (relatively) open; and if there is a built in screen reader, developers will just work harder to make theirs a better option.
That's how business works. You work harder to make yours the best option possible, or you die. Be it a cafe, an audio editing solution, or a screen reader.


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Pamela Dominguez
 

I love the commercial I heard on the radio a while ago.  It said:  “Windows ten is the most stable and secure windows ever!”  Secure?  For who?  Pam.
 

From: Matt
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll
 

Well don’t have a problem with improving Narrator at all it is just the things they are improving with it. I would like to see focus on using Narrator to do a complete clean install and also be able to read the bio’s for us. I don’t have a problem with W10 using it but I do think there is lots of improvement that can be done. One you don’t force all updates on everyone! Leave the updates like they are in W7. I am very disappointed that almost a year has went by and the flagship browser Edge is still not accessible to us. My fear as of now with that they end up getting rid of IE and Edged will still be inaccessible to us. I have the problem with them turning on all these features that invade your privacy. They should be turn off by default and you if you wish to can turn them on! I just don’t see this as improvement over W7 yes over W8 it is a big improvement. But the thing is if you want windows and support for it you will have to go to W10 in the next 4 years! So when that time comes if not before yes I will move to W10 ! I’m currently dual booted with W10 and W7.  I myself don’t have a lot of things hooked to my PC but some does and I have seen them have nightmare on this list with W10 and their stuff hooked to their computers. I have seen on this list brand new computers running W10 having problems with hardware built in to the computer. So W10 has a long way to go! It was released way before it was ready for mainstream! JMT!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Norman
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 

Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior? 

"

 

For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?

 

Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.

 

If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.

 

 

 

On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?  And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader.  At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something. 

 

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader.  If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10.  And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well?  I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list.  The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible.  Edge is not properly accessible.  And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Norman

Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" <lists@...>
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention.  Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@...>
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting.  In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@...>
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy <mailto:tl1@...>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12563 - Release Date: 07/05/16


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Rob <captinlogic@...>
 

Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
As I stated in a previous message, I believe a full-blown screen reader would give Microsoft an unfair advantage >
and might stifle 3rd-party developers.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Whereas apple is a closed platform with very few options, Windows is (relatively) open; and if there is a built in screen reader, developers will just work harder to make theirs a better option.
That's how business works. You work harder to make yours the best option possible, or you die. Be it a cafe, an audio editing solution, or a screen reader.


Avast treasure chest question

Sugar
 

Hi everyone
I use windows 7, Jaws 14, office 2010 on a 64 desk top
I use Avast and in my treasure chest I show 20 files. Should I delete these
files?
Thanks
Sugar

"I Rather Walk In Darkness With God, Than To Walk Alone In The Light"
-Sugar

Come and joine me and my busy elves at the North Pole for fun and tasty
Recipes all around, especially for Christmas!:
https://groups.io/org/groupsio/Santas-Workshop


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Jeremy <jeremy.richards7@...>
 

Actually, the blind employee at Microsoft is working in some sort of leadership capacity and is directly responsible to some extent for the current development of Narrator. Microsoft is a big company and Windows is a huge undertaking. Like any other huge company, progress is slow because information has to cross many hands with many opinions--think legislation.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 8:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Not to mention that I vaguely remember reading about at least one blind programmer who already works for Microsoft. Considering how large of a company they are, I wouldn't be surprised if there are others. A few blind programmers will not have a significant impact unless they are in a position to make a difference.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

One blind engineer is not necessarily representative of the needs and wants of blind consumers in general. There are all sorts of ways to get information from the blind community and I assume that Microsoft is already receiving a good deal. Being a blind anything doesn't automatically mean that you will have the proper understanding of what is needed.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carolyn Arnold <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:41 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible. It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture. The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome. I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install. That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader? The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support. Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time. However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist. 3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons. If developers of the alternatives were to lose financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options. Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.

I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible. It has been a year since the release of Windows 10. Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator. Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile. However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The attitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior? And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader. At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader. If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10. And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well? I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list. The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible. Edge is not properly accessible. And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> lists@thekingstech.com <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> >
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention. Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting. In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@ml1.net> mailto:tl1@ml1.net>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


question on virus chest fro Avast

Sugar
 

Hi everyone
In Avast, in the virus chest I show
20 files that it's picked up.
Do I want to delete these 20 files from the chest?
I was going to but wanted toask before I do anything.
I use windows 7,jaws 14 office 2010 on a 64.
Thanks
Sugar
"I Rather Walk In Darkness With God, Than To Walk Alone In The Light"
-Sugar

Come and joine me and my busy elves at the North Pole for fun and tasty
Recipes all around, especially for Christmas!:
https://groups.io/org/groupsio/Santas-Workshop


Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Matt
 

Yes it has to be a team effort and one or two simple programmers is not the answer! First you have to commit as much as possible to the making things accessible as possible to the handicap regardless of their handicap. But yes I would say the blind community is more than likely the biggest part of that handicap  and then blind and death and then death and then it goes on down the line. JST

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 11:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 

Not to mention that I vaguely remember reading about at least one blind programmer who already works for Microsoft.  Considering how large of a company they are, I wouldn't be surprised if there are others.  A few blind programmers will not have a significant impact unless they are in a position to make a difference.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:54 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 

One blind engineer is not necessarily representative of the needs and wants of blind consumers in general.  There are all sorts of ways to get information from the blind community and I assume that Microsoft is already receiving a good deal.  Being a blind anything doesn't automatically mean that you will have the proper understanding of what is needed. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:41 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible.  It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture.  The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome.  I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install.  That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader?  The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support.  Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time.  However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist.  3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons.  If developers of the alternatives were to lose  financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options.  Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.
 
I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible.  It has been a year since the release of Windows 10.  Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator.  Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile.  However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?  And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader.  At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader.  If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10.  And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well?  I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list.  The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible.  Edge is not properly accessible.  And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@...> lists@... <mailto:lists@...> >
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention.  Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@... <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting.  In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@... <mailto:4carolyna@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@...> mailto:tl1@...>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>











Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carlos
 


Not to mention that I vaguely remember reading about at least one blind programmer who already works for Microsoft.  Considering how large of a company they are, I wouldn't be surprised if there are others.  A few blind programmers will not have a significant impact unless they are in a position to make a difference.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

One blind engineer is not necessarily representative of the needs and wants of blind consumers in general.  There are all sorts of ways to get information from the blind community and I assume that Microsoft is already receiving a good deal.  Being a blind anything doesn't automatically mean that you will have the proper understanding of what is needed. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible.  It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture.  The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome.  I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install.  That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader?  The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support.  Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time.  However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist.  3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons.  If developers of the alternatives were to lose  financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options.  Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.
 
I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible.  It has been a year since the release of Windows 10.  Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator.  Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile.  However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?  And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader.  At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader.  If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10.  And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well?  I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list.  The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible.  Edge is not properly accessible.  And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@...> lists@... <mailto:lists@...> >
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention.  Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@... <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting.  In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@... <mailto:4carolyna@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@...> mailto:tl1@...>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>












Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carolyn Arnold
 

That is true.


Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

One blind engineer is not necessarily representative of the needs and wants of blind consumers in general. There are all sorts of ways to get information from the blind community and I assume that Microsoft is already receiving a good deal. Being a blind anything doesn't automatically mean that you will have the proper understanding of what is needed.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carolyn Arnold <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:41 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible. It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture. The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome. I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install. That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader? The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support. Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time. However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist. 3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons. If developers of the alternatives were to lose financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options. Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.

I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible. It has been a year since the release of Windows 10. Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator. Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile. However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior? And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader. At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader. If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10. And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well? I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list. The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible. Edge is not properly accessible. And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> lists@thekingstech.com <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
screen reader? #poll


Hi.

Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
option.

I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.

I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
along that line that ms is doing.

In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
can use.

Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
because they aren't keeping up.



On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
enough for it to warrant this much attention. Certainly not at the
expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi,
Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll

I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
with what consumers are actually requesting. In other words, they
hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll


I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
know from experience.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll

So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
would be better off investing more time and effort improving
accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.

----- Original Message -----
From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@ml1.net> mailto:tl1@ml1.net>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
Narrator screen reader? #poll


I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
Narrator.



TerriLynne



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
screen reader? #poll



I only use Narrator for emergencies.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
screen
reader? #poll



A new poll has been created:

Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.



1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
2. I never use Narrator
3. I use Narrator regularly

Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>





















Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Gene
 

One blind engineer is not necessarily representative of the needs and wants of blind consumers in general.  There are all sorts of ways to get information from the blind community and I assume that Microsoft is already receiving a good deal.  Being a blind anything doesn't automatically mean that you will have the proper understanding of what is needed. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

 I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible.  It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture.  The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome.  I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install.  That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader?  The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support.  Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time.  However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist.  3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons.  If developers of the alternatives were to lose  financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options.  Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.
 
I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible.  It has been a year since the release of Windows 10.  Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator.  Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile.  However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option.  Why would people use something inferior?  And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader.  At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader.  If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10.  And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well?  I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list.  The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible.  Edge is not properly accessible.  And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@...>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@...> lists@... <mailto:lists@...> >
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention.  Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@... <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting.  In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@... <mailto:4carolyna@...> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@...> mailto:tl1@...>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>  <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>












Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carolyn Arnold
 

I agree with that, if the laws are not put in place. As my husband says, "people want to take the easiest way out, the path of least resistance."

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 8:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

I agree, but this is like trying to convince appliance manufacturers that they should include text to speech in all of their products. If the laws are not created to force the issue, then it will most likely not happen.

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Whatever it took I think it should be looked at myself. To me this is a feature one of them that is toward the top of the list.





Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 8:05 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



Narrator will never be able to read the BIOS. Windows is not loaded when the BIOS is accessed which makes that approach impossible. That is not to say it could not be accomplished, but that is not the way you would go about it. Interestingly, I think UEFI, the new BIOS replacement, has much more potential for including some kind of text to speech. Although this has not been tried yet by anyone as far as I know.

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 7:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



Well really the only feature I would like to see with narrator is that it would be able to be used to read the bio’s somehow and to completely install windows from a clean install! But so far this has not happen not even a total clean install. Much else the bio’s .





Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible. It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture. The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome. I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install. That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader? The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support. Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time. However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist. 3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons. If developers of the alternatives were to lose financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options. Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.



I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible. It has been a year since the release of Windows 10. Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator. Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile. However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior?

"



For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?



Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.



If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.







On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior? And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader. At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.



Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader. If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10. And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well? I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list. The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible. Edge is not properly accessible. And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>

Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll



Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" <lists@thekingstech.com <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> >
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention. Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting. In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy <mailto:tl1@ml1.net>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Carolyn Arnold
 

Wouldn't it be good if Microsoft would employ a blind engineer; Apple might try that too - then maybe they have. If they did that, they could come closer to making more programs more accessible. I'm not saying this is a solution, just that they could come closer.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

I suppose it is all a matter of prospective since I find your attitude equally incomprehensible. It seems that you are focusing on only part of the picture. The part which says that having a built-in screen reader would somehow be such a desirable outcome. I honestly can't even understand this point since NVDA is already available, free, much more powerful than Narrator, and takes at most a few minutes to install. That being the case, why is it so important or such a great idea to make Narrator the best screen reader? The point which you continue to ignore is the possibility that if Microsoft were to develop a full-blown screen reader, some of the other options might simply cease to exist due to lack of support. Some people may choose to use supposedly inferior options at this time. However, inferior again is a matter of prospective and the reason you even have choices is because other options do currently exist. 3rd-party developers still have incentive to continue development, whether it be for profit or altruistic reasons. If developers of the alternatives were to lose financial or motivational support, some of those choices might no longer be available which means fewer options. Of course, this is all argument for the sake of speculation since I believe it is unlikely that Microsoft will ever invest the effort in making Narrator a full-fledged screen reader.

I am not quote unquote "ripping" Microsoft for adding features to Narrator, but it makes just as little sense to focus on adding features to Narrator which very few people will even use at this time, when other aspects of Windows 10 like Edge are still not fully accessible. It has been a year since the release of Windows 10. Edge should have already been made fully accessible if Microsoft developers have the time to focus on less important issues like adding features to Narrator. Although I will admit that I had not considered the impact such new features might potentially have for users of Windows Mobile. However, we do not know that has anything to do with Microsoft's motivation.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll


Hi.

The atitude about this on this list is surprising to me.

Jean says.

"

If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior?


"




For the same reason they do now.

I know it's a tossup on which screen reader we think is best at this point but i think we can all agree that window eyes and system access aren't and haven't been the best options for a while now, Yet, they still exist.

Why is this?




Curious, What accessibility problems are in windows 10?

I don't have any trouble with it at this point. In fact, i really like it.

As for mail and edge, Both of them are improving, And until they become completely accessible, there are lots of other options out there for both functions. Keep in mind, IE is still on windows 10.

I don't have a lot of experience with office 2016 but there again, what i have done with it i haven't noticed any issues.




If ms wants to improve narator, i say Great job!

I can't see why we have to rip ms for adding new accessibility features. It just doesn't make sense. Look at it this way, At least they're trying.









On 7/4/2016 8:04 PM, Gene wrote:


If something becomes the best option, it will likely become the only option. Why would people use something inferior? And if it becomes the best and probably only option, then you will have much less chance of being able to deal with difficult situations where something can't be done or doesn't read with that one screen-reader. At present, you may well find that a different screen-reader than the one you usually use may be able to be used in such situations to give enough access so you can do something.

Microsoft has never said that Narrator is intended to be a full screen reader. If Microsoft wants to try harder, then let them solve the accessibility problems in Windows 10. And aren't there accessibility problems in Office 2016 as well? I think I've seen messages about that now and then on the list. The Microsoft e-mail app is still not properly accessible. Edge is not properly accessible. And we are supposed to be happy that this or that feature has been added to Narrator?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Norman <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:29 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator screen reader? #poll

Hi.

I didn't mean it would become the only option like voice over in mac.

I meant to say it would be the best option in windows, like voice over
in the mac.

I think we would all have to agree that tit would be great if narator
beat out both jaws and nvda based on performance.

However, i would still want nvda as a backup.


I know this sounds impossible, and yes we have a long way to go but it
seems to me that ms is trying a lot harder than they used to.


JMT.

On 7/4/2016 2:31 PM, Carlos wrote:
> Interestingly, what you are predicting in your last statement in my
> opinion is a cause for concern, not hope.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" < <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> lists@thekingstech.com <mailto:lists@thekingstech.com> >
> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
> screen reader? #poll
>
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Personally, i'm glad to see narator improvements. It's yet another
>> option.
>>
>> I don't use it on my pc, but if it ever gets good enough i may
>> seriously consider switching to windows phone from android.
>>
>> I would really like features like continuom and some of the things
>> along that line that ms is doing.
>>
>> In addition, This would make yet another accessible platform that i
>> can use.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe some day narator will become to windows what voice
>> over is on the mac and all the other screen readers get sidelined
>> because they aren't keeping up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/4/2016 12:13 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> Yes, but who exactly is requesting all of these Narrator
>>> improvements? Not just based on this poll, but based on experience I
>>> don't believe most blind consumers are using Narrator frequently
>>> enough for it to warrant this much attention. Certainly not at the
>>> expense of effort which could be invested elsewhere.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>>> <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Things are implemented based on upvotes and severity of bugs.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> I'm sure Microsoft already receives more than enough feedback, but
>>> like most large corporations they prioritize based on some secret
>>> formula unknown to the rest of us which usually has little to do
>>> with what consumers are actually requesting. In other words, they
>>> hear what they choose to hear and then do what they want to do.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net <mailto:4carolyna@windstream.net> >
>>> To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> >
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be helpful to submit these findings to
>>> Microsoft? I know they would not want to hear it. That's life
>>> though, sometimes, we need to hear it whether or not we want to. I
>>> know from experience.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 12:34 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>> So far it seems that the only time anyone uses Narrator is as a
>>> backup, for emergencies, to finish setting up Windows, or for
>>> testing purposes. Since none of these new features significantly
>>> impact any of these scenarios except for testing, who exactly is
>>> benefiting from these improvements? As I said, for now Microsoft
>>> would be better off investing more time and effort improving
>>> accessibility in other areas. Until or unless Microsoft decides to
>>> turn it into a full-blown screen reader, these improvements to
>>> Narrator which almost no one will use are a waste of effort.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: TerriLynne Pomeroy < <mailto:tl1@ml1.net> mailto:tl1@ml1.net>
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 12:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows
>>> Narrator screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>> I never use Narrator. It drives me crazy. I would rather find
>>> someone to help me or even take it to a business than deal with
>>> Narrator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TerriLynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Veronica Kirk
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:37 PM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only use Narrator for emergencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:39 AM
>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [TechTalk] How frequently do you use the Windows Narrator
>>> screen
>>> reader? #poll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new poll has been created:
>>>
>>> Just for fun and because we rarely use this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I only use Narrator for emergencies
>>> 2. I never use Narrator
>>> 3. I use Narrator regularly
>>>
>>> Vote Now <https://TechTalk.groups.io/g/main/vote?pollid=137>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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