Date   

Re: youtube video about the man driving in the google car

Michael Amaro
 

the video is indeed the one

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

What is annoying about this video is that first of all, the driver has passengers. Are they helping him? It doesn’t show, or at least, if it does, it isn’t spoken, who is inputting the instructions and how they ard doing it. I mean, the car didn’t just go to the taco place through the thought process, right?

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Amaro
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

 


Re: youtube video about the man driving in the google car

Michael Amaro
 

the article in question, is also from 2015

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

What is annoying about this video is that first of all, the driver has passengers. Are they helping him? It doesn’t show, or at least, if it does, it isn’t spoken, who is inputting the instructions and how they ard doing it. I mean, the car didn’t just go to the taco place through the thought process, right?

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Amaro
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

 


This week on Eyes On Success: Helping Yourself While Helping Others

blueskies11
 

This week on Eyes On Success we have;

 

1651 Helping Yourself While Helping Others (Dec. 14, 2016)

Joining a low vision support group can be beneficial for sharing thoughts and ideas about living with low vision and meeting new friends. Hosts Nancy and Peter Torpey talk with Jim Fleming of Visionaries, a small support group in upstate New York, and Alice Crespo of Helping Hands for the Disabled, a large support group in New York City, about what they do.

 

The audio and show notes can be found at:

www.EyesOnSuccess.net

 

You can also subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.

 

See the links below for other ways to connect with Eyes On Success, receive weekly announcements, and join a discussion list with other listeners.

 

Check out Eyes On Success (formerly ViewPoints)

A weekly, half hour audio program for people living with vision loss.

Find out more about the show and get links to past episodes at:

       www.EyesOnSuccess.net

Find the podcast on iTunes or use the URL:

       www.EyesOnSuccess.net/eos_podcast

Find us on social media at:

       www.facebook.com/EyesOnSuccess

       www.twitter.com/@_EyesOnSuccess

       www.audioboom.com/EyesOnSuccess

Subscribe to the announcements-only list by sending an e-mail to:

       EyesOnSuccess+Subscribe@...

Subscribe to the listener discussion group by sending an e-mail to:

       EOS_discuss+Subscribe@...

Send suggestions or comments to:

      hosts@...

 

 


amazon dot and factory settings?

Billy Inglis
 

hi guys, I'm trying to take my amazon dot back to factory settings. How to do this please?, Billy
--
cheers
Billy


URL to story, driverless car

john s
 


Re: Question about iPhone stand for using KNFB reader

Allen West
 

I use the Stand Scan. It's very fold down into the size of a sheet of paper and weighs next to nothing. It also has lights inside the box in case you need light for better OCR. I bought it from:


Allen

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 13, 2016, at 9:09 PM, TerriLynne Pomeroy <tl1@...> wrote:

I am looking for a stand which will improve the use of the KNFB reader on a smart phone. I’m hoping people will tell me what they have used, what they like or don’t like, and where I can get the stand if you really like it.

 

Thanks much,

 

TerriLynne


Re: youtube video about the man driving in the google car

 

I think this video is a old video I rememberr seeing this a while back


On 12/13/2016 8:36 PM, Carlos wrote:
Yes, it doesn't match what was described in the article which claims he was driving around and operating the vehicle by himself.  Perhaps this video is not the incident mentioned in the article.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

What is annoying about this video is that first of all, the driver has passengers. Are they helping him? It doesn’t show, or at least, if it does, it isn’t spoken, who is inputting the instructions and how they ard doing it. I mean, the car didn’t just go to the taco place through the thought process, right?

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Amaro
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

 



Re: youtube video about the man driving in the google car

Carlos
 

The YouTube page for this video says it was published in 2012 so it is definitely not the same incident mentioned in the article.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

Yes, it doesn't match what was described in the article which claims he was driving around and operating the vehicle by himself.  Perhaps this video is not the incident mentioned in the article.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

What is annoying about this video is that first of all, the driver has passengers. Are they helping him? It doesn’t show, or at least, if it does, it isn’t spoken, who is inputting the instructions and how they ard doing it. I mean, the car didn’t just go to the taco place through the thought process, right?

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Amaro
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

 


Re: youtube video about the man driving in the google car

Carlos
 

Yes, it doesn't match what was described in the article which claims he was driving around and operating the vehicle by himself.  Perhaps this video is not the incident mentioned in the article.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

What is annoying about this video is that first of all, the driver has passengers. Are they helping him? It doesn’t show, or at least, if it does, it isn’t spoken, who is inputting the instructions and how they ard doing it. I mean, the car didn’t just go to the taco place through the thought process, right?

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Amaro
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

 


Re: youtube video about the man driving in the google car

TerriLynne Pomeroy <tl1@...>
 

What is annoying about this video is that first of all, the driver has passengers. Are they helping him? It doesn’t show, or at least, if it does, it isn’t spoken, who is inputting the instructions and how they ard doing it. I mean, the car didn’t just go to the taco place through the thought process, right?

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Amaro
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] youtube video about the man driving in the google car

 


Question about iPhone stand for using KNFB reader

TerriLynne Pomeroy <tl1@...>
 

I am looking for a stand which will improve the use of the KNFB reader on a smart phone. I’m hoping people will tell me what they have used, what they like or don’t like, and where I can get the stand if you really like it.

 

Thanks much,

 

TerriLynne


youtube video about the man driving in the google car

Michael Amaro
 


Re: Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required) #article

Pamela Dominguez
 

You are using one now? I remember you had gotten one and let your husband
have it and gotten a feature phone. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 8:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

I can use an iPhone too, and my daughter-in-law calls me Techy Grandma,
since I text back and forth to them, while her parents (both sighted), my
age, do not at all.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Flor Lynch
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

But, does this also apply to blind ‘seniors’?

Whilst it may be the case in America that ‘just about every blind person’
one knows, has a smart phone, it isn’t necessarily true in other developed
countries. In Ireland, certainly a good majority do own and use smart
phones. But there are those (say over 50’s) who don’t, or can’t get their
heads around using them, not having the confidence or aptitude, or due to a
lack of experienced fellow users in their localities. BTW, that said, I’m
over 50 myself, and I have no trouble using an iPhone!

From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 12:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required) I agree.
Although I don't have any statistics to support my impression, just about
every blind person I know directly or am aware of owns a smart phone of some
kind.

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)


I totally disagree with this I think there is a lot of blind people with
smart phones and most don’t find them too hard to operate. Not that there is
not some that would rather have a simple phone. That is their choice. You
realize Uber does not have a phone number to call like taxi company. Uber is
all just normal regular people doing a side job and not necessary doing this
as a living. I sure there is some that is doing it full time . But it is
their vehicle and their time . It not like a taxi company. Now I sure if
you have a favorite Uber driver he or she might give you her or his cell
phone so you could call them when you needed them. If you was a regular good
paying customer.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 6:37 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)





But Uber is already engaging in a form of discrimination because they
require customers to own a smart phone in order to book a ride, and most
blind folks do not own smart phones because they either cannot afford them
or else find them too difficult to learn and operate.



Gerald







From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:08 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well it was not that long ago less than 8 years ago they updated the ADA.
But yes it could use some more updating. But I don’t know what the ADA would
have to do with Uber or taxies other than we have access to other. Another
words you cannot be denied to ride in one because you are blind or have your
Gide animal with you or whatever your service animal might be or might be
far.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:38 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



ADA was written decades ago, when in United States the technology today
available was science fiction.

We need to update our legal framework, technology moves faster than
representatives and senators. Look UBER, in several places they don’t know
what to do with uber. New York has been trying to handle UBER in the same
way how they handle taxi companies. NY makes money with the licenses that
the city provide to taxi drivers. Now they are losing money.

Look the bunches of holes in ADA related with the online education. That law
is written when the only way to take classes was in a class room. Like this,
are many other examples.









From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I beg to differ. it did have something to do with ADA as I was not being
allowed to have it in my name because I was blind. no other reason
whatsoever but blindness. it was simple enough to challenge and remind the
state that I have every legal right to own a vehicle.





From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 4:15 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well that is true and this really owning a vehicle in your name has nothing
to do with ADA at all. Only if you are driving one . In the case of being
blind we are not allowed to drive one as of now. Now other disabilities is
different. Say like people in a wheel chair or people with hearing loss and
so on. They can drive cars as long as they can see and it can be adapted to
be driven safe. This is where the complete automatic car comes in with no
steering wheel or peddles to us as this would not matter then if you could
see or not. As you would never have any kind of control over the vehicle.
But ones with steering wheels and peddles and an override button would be
different as this would allow you to disengage the automatic function and
this would be a bad thing for us. Unless this was somehow was able to tell
if you was a seeing person or not and then lock you out of that function. I
assume maybe they would have it so you put in your DL if visual and if not
then you would skip this step and you would be locked out of taking over.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:51 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



that was what I had to remind them of. the ADA and it does not matter if I
own it as long as I do not drive it.



From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 3:27 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well they cannot as far as I know in any state stop you from owning a
vehicle. This would be demonstrating against us. You should be able to be
the only one on the title. If they tell you different I think they would be
wrong. But I sure each state has their own laws about this. Here in Florida
it is no problem to be the only one on the title as long as you have a
desnated driver and insurance. Now a DL is a total different thing.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



several years ago I had to fight to have only my name on the title. I did
win that fight.



From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:41 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Yes you can hear in Florida as well and most all states . there is a
different in owning one and driving it or having control of it in the car.
You can own one but you cannot drive one!





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I doubt I’ll run out and get one anyway, but sure would be interested in it.

I am going to guess they are going to be out of a lot of our price ranges.

I do know that in Washington blind people can own a vehicle. I do. lol



From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:27 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I don't really have a good idea about cost, but based on most of the
articles I have read, this capability should not significantly impact the
cost since they are using existing off the shelf technology as much as
possible.

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Mitchel

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I am in rural Washington and think it would be more accepted in rural areas
way before urban areas. I know a lot of the smaller towns already allow ATV’s
to use the town streets. I could do so much right here in town I could care
less if I ever was able to use it to get to another state or town.

any word of cost?





From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:32 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well yes I think that the more liberal (blue ) states and then the mix
(purple ) states will come on board first. I think most of the conservative
states (red ) states will be the later states to come on board. But while
this is all nice I also think this will be in the more heavy populated area
that you see them and then they will at some point spread on out.

Now this being said it will I think still be a long time before I think a
blind person will be allowed to have a driver licensing to drive one of
these cars. The nice thing about it no steering wheel means no one can drive
it. So with that the ones with no steering wheel I think we will come closer
to being able to have one and ride in it by our self. I think it will be
different for those that have a steering wheel.

The one that is completely and totally automatic with no steering wheel I
see no reason to deny us.

But the thing is this is for this state . So it might be legal for Michigan
it will not be legal for other states . so then you will not be able to
drive across state line. This is good start but till it becomes a national
law to have and drive these in all states it would be a burden for some.

Now like me more than likely I would never leave my state so it would be
fine. But I think Florida is going to be on the later end of this. As they
are a very red state. But maybe not they might get on board as a safety
issue. I just hope I not too dam old when it comes a national thing to be
able to own and have a total automatic car that you can drive anywhere in
the USA. I would be happy to have it like just my state legal to buy own and
use one in my state. Since it would be total automatic with no steering
wheel or peddles then I cannot see them denying us over our seeing partners
as neither one would have any more control then the other. JST!





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:48 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



oh wow. this article did bring up something I never thought about: the
misbehaving passengers. what will people do when there is no driver?

has anyone ever heard a price on the low end no driver cars?





From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:37 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of
Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



And the progress continues.

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/10/michigan-legalizes-consumer-sales-self-driving-vehicles-no-steering-wheels-pedals-required/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29










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Re: Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car

Michael Amaro
 

here is a youtube link  to the video it is described.
 

From: Melissa
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car

Just an FYI if you grab the title of the article and paste it into Google and hit search you will get links that will have the article in them.


Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 13, 2016, at 5:59 PM, john s <jschwery@...> wrote:

Kimsan, we will try to get you a link, tomorrow.


earlier, Kimsan, wrote:
May I have a link to the article?
Thanks.
 
Respectfully,
Kimsan Song
kimsansong@...
 
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [ mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 2:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car
 

Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car





By Ashley Halsey III and Michael Laris December 13 at 1:05 PM

A blind man has successfully traveled around Austin ­ unaccompanied ­ in a car without a steering wheel or floor pedals, Google announced Tuesday.

After years of testing by Google engineers and employees, the company’s new level of confidence in its fully autonomous technology was described as a milestone.

“We’ve had almost driverless technology for a decade,” said Google engineer Nathaniel Fairfield. “It’s the hard parts of driving that really take the time and the effort to do right.”

Steve Mahan, who is legally blind, was the first non-Google employee to ride alone in the company’s gumdrop-shaped autonomous car.

“It is like driving with a very good driver,” Mahan said. “If you close your eyes when you’re riding with somebody, you get a sense of whether this is a good driver or whether they’re not. These self-driving cars drive like a very good driver.”

Google says it has driven more than 2 million miles on public roads to test its vehicles.

“In early 2015, we began to see some signs that we were getting close,” Fairfield said. “The cars were going for longer and longer times without the humans having to intervene.”

Fairfield said the company spent six months scrutinizing the vehicle’s performance before Mahan was allowed to set out alone.

“That is a whole different beast ­ to get that driver out of the car, to take off the training wheels,” Fairfield said.

Mahan said: “I had the greatest time driving around a neighborhood in Austin, Texas. It was so much fun, being aware that the vehicle was navigating intersections and I was in good hands, perfectly safe.”

The car Mahan rode in had a backup computer and multiple systems to control it.

“If you removed the driver from the loop, you really have to have your backups,” said Dmitri Dolgov, who heads technological development for Google’s self-driving effort.

Mahan said: “This is a hope of independence. These cars will change the life prospects of people such as myself. I want very much to become a member of the driving public again.”

Google also announced Tuesday that it is spinning off its self-driving-car project into a company called Waymo, an independent division under Google’s parent company, Alphabet.

John Krafcik, chief executive of Waymo, said the Austin solo ride is an indication that “We’re close to bringing this to a lot of people.”

Costa Samaras, an automation expert at Carnegie Mellon University, said the move by Waymo “puts a marker down that says to Uber, Lyft and auto companies that the race to capture market share in driverless mobility has begun in earnest.”

Samaras said that “without a human in the loop, there’s also now a lot less room for computer error in case something goes wrong. I’m guessing Waymo has run these numbers and is betting on the computer.”

Google was among the first technology company to plunge into an area traditionally dominated by automakers in Detroit and elsewhere in the world. After initial testing by its employees, the company embraced a decision to put fully autonomous cars on the road ­ probably without steering wheels or floor pedals ­ from the outset. In that decision, Google became an outlier, as the existing industry, mindful of its need to sell cars each year, took an approach intended to introduce self-driving features incrementally.

The Google announcement came on a day when the Obama administration proposed a rule that would require all new cars to be able to communicate with other cars wirelessly, a move that advocates said could save lives but that also raises privacy and hacking concerns among opponents.

The wireless box could, for instance, tell a car to brake when another vehicle is about to run a red light. Federal officials said the required technology “will not collect, broadcast or share information linked or linkable, as a practical matter, to individuals or their vehicles.”

Vehicle-to-vehicle communication is considered an essential building block toward autonomous vehicles by some ­ but not all ­ of the companies working to develop them.

“If they’re connected to each other, then we likely will not need signs, markings or even traffic signals,” said Jim Barbaresso, vice president for intelligent transportation systems at HNTB Infrastructure Solutions. “Cars could go through intersections without hitting each other, without the need of a traffic signal.”

Fairfield said direct vehicle-to-vehicle communication is an asset but less than essential to putting autonomous cars on the road.

“There is vehicle technology where the car is telling you it’s going to hit the brakes or how much it’s braking,” Fairfield said. “That’s somewhat useful, but we can [determine] that with radars and lasers and cameras, so it’s not that useful.”

The Competitive Enterprise Institute, a Washington-based conservative think tank, called the administration’s rulemaking bid a “midnight” move. Marc Scribner, a research fellow, said the incoming Trump administration should immediately withdraw the “dangerous” proposal.

text of forwarded message ends:

John

John


Re: Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car

Michael Amaro
 

 

From: Melissa
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car

Just an FYI if you grab the title of the article and paste it into Google and hit search you will get links that will have the article in them.


Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 13, 2016, at 5:59 PM, john s <jschwery@...> wrote:

Kimsan, we will try to get you a link, tomorrow.


earlier, Kimsan, wrote:
May I have a link to the article?
Thanks.
 
Respectfully,
Kimsan Song
kimsansong@...
 
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [ mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 2:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car
 

Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car





By Ashley Halsey III and Michael Laris December 13 at 1:05 PM

A blind man has successfully traveled around Austin ­ unaccompanied ­ in a car without a steering wheel or floor pedals, Google announced Tuesday.

After years of testing by Google engineers and employees, the company’s new level of confidence in its fully autonomous technology was described as a milestone.

“We’ve had almost driverless technology for a decade,” said Google engineer Nathaniel Fairfield. “It’s the hard parts of driving that really take the time and the effort to do right.”

Steve Mahan, who is legally blind, was the first non-Google employee to ride alone in the company’s gumdrop-shaped autonomous car.

“It is like driving with a very good driver,” Mahan said. “If you close your eyes when you’re riding with somebody, you get a sense of whether this is a good driver or whether they’re not. These self-driving cars drive like a very good driver.”

Google says it has driven more than 2 million miles on public roads to test its vehicles.

“In early 2015, we began to see some signs that we were getting close,” Fairfield said. “The cars were going for longer and longer times without the humans having to intervene.”

Fairfield said the company spent six months scrutinizing the vehicle’s performance before Mahan was allowed to set out alone.

“That is a whole different beast ­ to get that driver out of the car, to take off the training wheels,” Fairfield said.

Mahan said: “I had the greatest time driving around a neighborhood in Austin, Texas. It was so much fun, being aware that the vehicle was navigating intersections and I was in good hands, perfectly safe.”

The car Mahan rode in had a backup computer and multiple systems to control it.

“If you removed the driver from the loop, you really have to have your backups,” said Dmitri Dolgov, who heads technological development for Google’s self-driving effort.

Mahan said: “This is a hope of independence. These cars will change the life prospects of people such as myself. I want very much to become a member of the driving public again.”

Google also announced Tuesday that it is spinning off its self-driving-car project into a company called Waymo, an independent division under Google’s parent company, Alphabet.

John Krafcik, chief executive of Waymo, said the Austin solo ride is an indication that “We’re close to bringing this to a lot of people.”

Costa Samaras, an automation expert at Carnegie Mellon University, said the move by Waymo “puts a marker down that says to Uber, Lyft and auto companies that the race to capture market share in driverless mobility has begun in earnest.”

Samaras said that “without a human in the loop, there’s also now a lot less room for computer error in case something goes wrong. I’m guessing Waymo has run these numbers and is betting on the computer.”

Google was among the first technology company to plunge into an area traditionally dominated by automakers in Detroit and elsewhere in the world. After initial testing by its employees, the company embraced a decision to put fully autonomous cars on the road ­ probably without steering wheels or floor pedals ­ from the outset. In that decision, Google became an outlier, as the existing industry, mindful of its need to sell cars each year, took an approach intended to introduce self-driving features incrementally.

The Google announcement came on a day when the Obama administration proposed a rule that would require all new cars to be able to communicate with other cars wirelessly, a move that advocates said could save lives but that also raises privacy and hacking concerns among opponents.

The wireless box could, for instance, tell a car to brake when another vehicle is about to run a red light. Federal officials said the required technology “will not collect, broadcast or share information linked or linkable, as a practical matter, to individuals or their vehicles.”

Vehicle-to-vehicle communication is considered an essential building block toward autonomous vehicles by some ­ but not all ­ of the companies working to develop them.

“If they’re connected to each other, then we likely will not need signs, markings or even traffic signals,” said Jim Barbaresso, vice president for intelligent transportation systems at HNTB Infrastructure Solutions. “Cars could go through intersections without hitting each other, without the need of a traffic signal.”

Fairfield said direct vehicle-to-vehicle communication is an asset but less than essential to putting autonomous cars on the road.

“There is vehicle technology where the car is telling you it’s going to hit the brakes or how much it’s braking,” Fairfield said. “That’s somewhat useful, but we can [determine] that with radars and lasers and cameras, so it’s not that useful.”

The Competitive Enterprise Institute, a Washington-based conservative think tank, called the administration’s rulemaking bid a “midnight” move. Marc Scribner, a research fellow, said the incoming Trump administration should immediately withdraw the “dangerous” proposal.

text of forwarded message ends:

John

John


Re: Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required) #article

Pamela Dominguez
 

I know a lot of blind seniors who do, but then again on the other hand, I know a lot of blind seniors (myself included), who do not.  Pam.
 

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)
 
I know almost every blind senior I know personally has a smart phone. of course I have a rather limited number of people I talk with.
 
From: Flor Lynch
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)
 
But, does this also apply to blind ‘seniors’?
 
Whilst it may be the case in America that ‘just about every blind person’ one knows, has a smart phone, it isn’t necessarily true in other developed countries. In Ireland, certainly a good majority do own and use smart phones. But there are those (say over 50’s) who don’t, or can’t get their heads around using them, not having the confidence or aptitude, or due to a lack of experienced fellow users in their localities. BTW, that said, I’m over 50 myself, and I have no trouble using an iPhone!
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)
I agree.  Although I don't have any statistics to support my impression, just about every blind person I know directly or am aware of owns a smart phone of some kind.
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)
 

I totally disagree with this I think there is a lot of blind people with smart phones and most don’t find them too hard to operate. Not that there is not some that would rather have a simple phone. That is their choice.  You realize Uber does not have a phone number to call like taxi company. Uber is all just normal regular people doing a side job and not necessary doing this as a living. I sure there is some that is doing it full time .  But it is their vehicle and their time . It not like a taxi company.  Now I sure if you have a favorite Uber driver he or she might give you her or his cell phone so you could call them when you needed them. If you was a regular good paying customer.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 6:37 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

 

But Uber is already engaging in a form of discrimination because they require customers to own a smart phone in order to book a ride, and most blind folks do not own smart phones because they either cannot afford them or else find them too difficult to learn and operate.

 

Gerald

 

 

 

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:08 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

Well it was not that long ago less than 8 years ago they updated the ADA. But yes it could use some more updating. But I don’t know what the ADA would have to do with Uber or taxies other than we have access to other. Another words you cannot be denied to ride in one because you are blind or have your Gide animal with you or whatever your service animal might be or might be far.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:38 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

ADA was written decades ago, when in United States the technology today available was science fiction.

We need to update our legal framework, technology moves faster than representatives and senators. Look UBER, in several places they don’t know what to do with uber. New York has been trying to handle UBER in the same way how they handle taxi companies. NY makes money with the licenses that the city provide to taxi drivers. Now they are losing money.

Look the bunches of holes in ADA related with the online education. That law is written when the only way to take classes was in a class room. Like this, are many other examples.

 

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

I beg to differ. it did have something to do with ADA as I was not being allowed to have it in my name because I was blind. no other reason whatsoever but blindness. it was simple enough to challenge and remind the state that I have every legal right to own a vehicle.

 

 

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 4:15 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

Well that is true and this really owning a vehicle in your name has nothing to do with ADA at all. Only if you are driving one . In the case of being blind we are not allowed to drive one as of now. Now other disabilities is different. Say like people in a wheel chair or people with hearing loss and so on. They can drive cars as long as they can see and it can be adapted to be driven safe. This is where the complete automatic car comes in with no steering wheel or peddles to us as this would not matter then if you could see or not. As you would never have any kind of control over the vehicle. But ones with steering wheels and peddles and an override button would be different as this would allow you to disengage the automatic function and this would be a bad thing for us. Unless this was somehow was able to tell if you was a seeing person or not and then lock you out of that function.  I assume maybe they would have it so you put in your DL if visual and if not then you would skip this step and you would be locked out of taking over.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:51 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

that was what I had to remind them of.  the ADA and it does not matter if I own it as long as I do not drive it.

 

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 3:27 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

Well they cannot as far as I know in any state stop you from owning a vehicle. This would be demonstrating against us.  You should be able to be the only one on the title.  If they tell you different I think they would be wrong. But I sure each state has their own laws about this. Here in Florida it is no problem to be the only one on the title as long as you have a desnated driver and insurance. Now a DL is a total different thing.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

several years ago I had to fight to have only my name on the title. I did win that fight.

 

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:41 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

Yes you can hear in Florida as well and most all states . there is a different in owning one and driving it or having control of it in the car. You can own one but you cannot drive one!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

I doubt I’ll run out and get one anyway, but sure would be interested in it.

I am going to guess they are going to be out of a lot of our price ranges.

I do know that in Washington blind people can own a vehicle. I do. lol

 

From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:27 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

I don't really have a good idea about cost, but based on most of the articles I have read, this capability should not significantly impact the cost since they are using existing off the shelf technology as much as possible.

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Mitchel

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

I am in rural Washington and think it would be more accepted in rural areas way before urban areas. I know a lot of the smaller towns already allow ATV’s to use the town streets. I could do so much right here in town I could care less if I ever was able to use it to get to another state or town.

any word of cost?

 

 

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:32 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

Well yes I think that the more liberal (blue ) states and then the mix (purple ) states will come on board first. I think most of the conservative states (red ) states will be the later states to come on board. But while this is all nice I also think this will be in the more heavy populated area that you see them and then they will at some point spread on out.

Now this being said it will I think still be a long time before I think a blind person will be allowed to have a driver licensing to drive one of these cars. The nice thing about it no steering wheel means no one can drive it. So with that the ones with no steering wheel I think we will come closer to being able to have one and ride in it by our self.  I think it will be different for those that have a steering wheel.

The one that is completely and totally automatic with no steering wheel I see no reason to deny us.

But the thing is this is for this state . So it might be legal for Michigan it will not be legal for other states . so then you will not be able to drive across state line. This is good start but till it becomes a national law to have and drive these in all states it would be a burden for some.

Now like me more than likely I would never leave my state so it would be fine. But I think Florida is going to be on the later end of this. As they are a very red state.  But maybe not they might get on board as a safety issue. I just hope I not too dam old when it comes a national thing to be able to own and have a total automatic car that you can drive anywhere in the USA. I would be happy to have it like just my state legal to buy own and use one in my state. Since it would be total automatic with no steering wheel or peddles then I cannot see them denying us over our seeing partners as neither one would have any more control then the other. JST!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:48 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

oh wow. this article did bring up something I never thought about: the misbehaving passengers. what will people do when there is no driver?

has anyone ever heard a price on the low end no driver cars?

 

 

From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:37 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13589 - Release Date: 12/13/16


Re: Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car

Pamela Dominguez
 

The article is right in the message.  Pam.
 

From: Kimsan
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car
 

May I have a link to the article?

Thanks.

 

Respectfully,

Kimsan Song

kimsansong@...

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 2:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car

 

Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car



By Ashley Halsey III and Michael Laris December 13 at 1:05 PM

A blind man has successfully traveled around Austin ­ unaccompanied ­ in a car without a steering wheel or floor pedals, Google announced Tuesday.

After years of testing by Google engineers and employees, the company’s new level of confidence in its fully autonomous technology was described as a milestone.

“We’ve had almost driverless technology for a decade,” said Google engineer Nathaniel Fairfield. “It’s the hard parts of driving that really take the time and the effort to do right.”

Steve Mahan, who is legally blind, was the first non-Google employee to ride alone in the company’s gumdrop-shaped autonomous car.

“It is like driving with a very good driver,” Mahan said. “If you close your eyes when you’re riding with somebody, you get a sense of whether this is a good driver or whether they’re not. These self-driving cars drive like a very good driver.”

Google says it has driven more than 2 million miles on public roads to test its vehicles.

“In early 2015, we began to see some signs that we were getting close,” Fairfield said. “The cars were going for longer and longer times without the humans having to intervene.”

Fairfield said the company spent six months scrutinizing the vehicle’s performance before Mahan was allowed to set out alone.

“That is a whole different beast ­ to get that driver out of the car, to take off the training wheels,” Fairfield said.

Mahan said: “I had the greatest time driving around a neighborhood in Austin, Texas. It was so much fun, being aware that the vehicle was navigating intersections and I was in good hands, perfectly safe.”

The car Mahan rode in had a backup computer and multiple systems to control it.

“If you removed the driver from the loop, you really have to have your backups,” said Dmitri Dolgov, who heads technological development for Google’s self-driving effort.

Mahan said: “This is a hope of independence. These cars will change the life prospects of people such as myself. I want very much to become a member of the driving public again.”

Google also announced Tuesday that it is spinning off its self-driving-car project into a company called Waymo, an independent division under Google’s parent company, Alphabet.

John Krafcik, chief executive of Waymo, said the Austin solo ride is an indication that “We’re close to bringing this to a lot of people.”

Costa Samaras, an automation expert at Carnegie Mellon University, said the move by Waymo “puts a marker down that says to Uber, Lyft and auto companies that the race to capture market share in driverless mobility has begun in earnest.”

Samaras said that “without a human in the loop, there’s also now a lot less room for computer error in case something goes wrong. I’m guessing Waymo has run these numbers and is betting on the computer.”

Google was among the first technology company to plunge into an area traditionally dominated by automakers in Detroit and elsewhere in the world. After initial testing by its employees, the company embraced a decision to put fully autonomous cars on the road ­ probably without steering wheels or floor pedals ­ from the outset. In that decision, Google became an outlier, as the existing industry, mindful of its need to sell cars each year, took an approach intended to introduce self-driving features incrementally.

The Google announcement came on a day when the Obama administration proposed a rule that would require all new cars to be able to communicate with other cars wirelessly, a move that advocates said could save lives but that also raises privacy and hacking concerns among opponents.

The wireless box could, for instance, tell a car to brake when another vehicle is about to run a red light. Federal officials said the required technology “will not collect, broadcast or share information linked or linkable, as a practical matter, to individuals or their vehicles.”

Vehicle-to-vehicle communication is considered an essential building block toward autonomous vehicles by some ­ but not all ­ of the companies working to develop them.

“If they’re connected to each other, then we likely will not need signs, markings or even traffic signals,” said Jim Barbaresso, vice president for intelligent transportation systems at HNTB Infrastructure Solutions. “Cars could go through intersections without hitting each other, without the need of a traffic signal.”

Fairfield said direct vehicle-to-vehicle communication is an asset but less than essential to putting autonomous cars on the road.

“There is vehicle technology where the car is telling you it’s going to hit the brakes or how much it’s braking,” Fairfield said. “That’s somewhat useful, but we can [determine] that with radars and lasers and cameras, so it’s not that useful.”

The Competitive Enterprise Institute, a Washington-based conservative think tank, called the administration’s rulemaking bid a “midnight” move. Marc Scribner, a research fellow, said the incoming Trump administration should immediately withdraw the “dangerous” proposal.

text of forwarded message ends:

John

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13589 - Release Date: 12/13/16


Re: Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car

 

I just shared because I needed the link too because I wanted to share
it on facebook. :)

On 12/13/16, Kimsan <kimsansong@icloud.com> wrote:
Thank you.



Respectfully,

Kimsan Song

kimsansong@icloud.com



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Melissa
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google's driverless car



https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/blind-man-sets-out-alone-in-googles-driverless-car/2016/12/13/f523ef42-c13d-11e6-8422-eac61c0ef74d_story.html

Just an FYI if you grab the title of the article and paste it into Google
and hit search you will get links that will have the article in them.



Melissa

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 13, 2016, at 5:59 PM, john s <jschwery@cox.net
<mailto:jschwery@cox.net> > wrote:

Kimsan, we will try to get you a link, tomorrow.


earlier, Kimsan, wrote:



May I have a link to the article?
Thanks.

Respectfully,
Kimsan Song
kimsansong@icloud.com <mailto:kimsansong@icloud.com>

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io> [
mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> ] On Behalf
Of john s
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 2:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car



Blind man sets out alone in Google’s driverless car







By Ashley Halsey III
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/ashley-halsey-iii/> and Michael
Laris <https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/michael-laris/> December 13 at
1:05 PM
<mailto:ashley.halsey@washpost.com;michael.laris@washpost.com?subject=Reader%20feedback%20for%20%27Blind%20man%20sets%20out%20alone%20in%20Google%E2%80%99s%20driverless%20car%27>


A blind man has successfully traveled around Austin ­ unaccompanied ­ in a
car without a steering wheel or floor pedals, Google announced Tuesday.

After years of testing by Google engineers and employees, the company’s new
level of confidence in its fully autonomous technology was described as a
milestone.

“We’ve had almost driverless technology for a decade,” said Google engineer
Nathaniel Fairfield. “It’s the hard parts of driving that really take the
time and the effort to do right.”

Steve Mahan, who is legally blind, was the first non-Google employee to ride
alone in the company’s gumdrop-shaped autonomous car.

“It is like driving with a very good driver,” Mahan said. “If you close your
eyes when you’re riding with somebody, you get a sense of whether this is a
good driver or whether they’re not. These self-driving cars drive like a
very good driver.”

Google says it has driven more than 2 million miles on public roads to test
its vehicles.

“In early 2015, we began to see some signs that we were getting close,”
Fairfield said. “The cars were going for longer and longer times without the
humans having to intervene.”

Fairfield said the company spent six months scrutinizing the vehicle’s
performance before Mahan was allowed to set out alone.

“That is a whole different beast ­ to get that driver out of the car, to
take off the training wheels,” Fairfield said.

Mahan said: “I had the greatest time driving around a neighborhood in
Austin, Texas. It was so much fun, being aware that the vehicle was
navigating intersections and I was in good hands, perfectly safe.”

The car Mahan rode in had a backup computer and multiple systems to control
it.

“If you removed the driver from the loop, you really have to have your
backups,” said Dmitri Dolgov, who heads technological development for
Google’s self-driving effort.

Mahan said: “This is a hope of independence. These cars will change the life
prospects of people such as myself. I want very much to become a member of
the driving public again.”

Google also announced Tuesday that it is spinning off its self-driving-car
project into a company called Waymo, an independent division under Google’s
parent company, Alphabet.

John Krafcik, chief executive of Waymo, said the Austin solo ride is an
indication that “We’re close to bringing this to a lot of people.”

Costa Samaras, an automation expert at Carnegie Mellon University, said the
move by Waymo “puts a marker down that says to Uber, Lyft and auto companies
that the race to capture market share in driverless mobility has begun in
earnest.”

Samaras said that “without a human in the loop, there’s also now a lot less
room for computer error in case something goes wrong. I’m guessing Waymo has
run these numbers and is betting on the computer.”

Google was among the first technology company to plunge into an area
traditionally dominated by automakers in Detroit and elsewhere in the world.
After initial testing by its employees, the company embraced a decision to
put fully autonomous cars on the road ­ probably without steering wheels or
floor pedals ­ from the outset. In that decision, Google became an outlier,
as the existing industry, mindful of its need to sell cars each year, took
an approach intended to introduce self-driving features incrementally.

The Google announcement came on a day when the Obama administration proposed
a rule that would require all new cars to be able to communicate with other
cars wirelessly, a move that advocates said could save lives but that also
raises privacy and hacking concerns among opponents.

The wireless box could, for instance, tell a car to brake when another
vehicle is about to run a red light. Federal officials said the required
technology “will not collect, broadcast or share information linked or
linkable, as a practical matter, to individuals or their vehicles.”

Vehicle-to-vehicle communication is considered an essential building block
toward autonomous vehicles by some ­ but not all ­ of the companies working
to develop them.

“If they’re connected to each other, then we likely will not need signs,
markings or even traffic signals,” said Jim Barbaresso, vice president for
intelligent transportation systems at HNTB Infrastructure Solutions. “Cars
could go through intersections without hitting each other, without the need
of a traffic signal.”

Fairfield said direct vehicle-to-vehicle communication is an asset but less
than essential to putting autonomous cars on the road.

“There is vehicle technology where the car is telling you it’s going to hit
the brakes or how much it’s braking,” Fairfield said. “That’s somewhat
useful, but we can [determine] that with radars and lasers and cameras, so
it’s not that useful.”

The Competitive Enterprise Institute, a Washington-based conservative think
tank, called the administration’s rulemaking bid a “midnight” move. Marc
Scribner, a research fellow, said the incoming Trump administration should
immediately withdraw the “dangerous” proposal.

text of forwarded message ends:

John

John




Re: Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required) #article

Flor Lynch
 

As we say in Ireland, fair play to you, and as yours might say, fair dues to you! Many folk have problems with somehow integrating the technology techniques into how they like to do things in their lives.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:08 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

I can use an iPhone too, and my daughter-in-law calls me Techy Grandma, since I text back and forth to them, while her parents (both sighted), my age, do not at all.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

But, does this also apply to blind ‘seniors’?

Whilst it may be the case in America that ‘just about every blind person’ one knows, has a smart phone, it isn’t necessarily true in other developed countries. In Ireland, certainly a good majority do own and use smart phones. But there are those (say over 50’s) who don’t, or can’t get their heads around using them, not having the confidence or aptitude, or due to a lack of experienced fellow users in their localities. BTW, that said, I’m over 50 myself, and I have no trouble using an iPhone!

From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 12:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required) I agree. Although I don't have any statistics to support my impression, just about every blind person I know directly or am aware of owns a smart phone of some kind.

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)


I totally disagree with this I think there is a lot of blind people with smart phones and most don’t find them too hard to operate. Not that there is not some that would rather have a simple phone. That is their choice. You realize Uber does not have a phone number to call like taxi company. Uber is all just normal regular people doing a side job and not necessary doing this as a living. I sure there is some that is doing it full time . But it is their vehicle and their time . It not like a taxi company. Now I sure if you have a favorite Uber driver he or she might give you her or his cell phone so you could call them when you needed them. If you was a regular good paying customer.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 6:37 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)





But Uber is already engaging in a form of discrimination because they require customers to own a smart phone in order to book a ride, and most blind folks do not own smart phones because they either cannot afford them or else find them too difficult to learn and operate.



Gerald







From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:08 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well it was not that long ago less than 8 years ago they updated the ADA. But yes it could use some more updating. But I don’t know what the ADA would have to do with Uber or taxies other than we have access to other. Another words you cannot be denied to ride in one because you are blind or have your Gide animal with you or whatever your service animal might be or might be far.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:38 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



ADA was written decades ago, when in United States the technology today available was science fiction.

We need to update our legal framework, technology moves faster than representatives and senators. Look UBER, in several places they don’t know what to do with uber. New York has been trying to handle UBER in the same way how they handle taxi companies. NY makes money with the licenses that the city provide to taxi drivers. Now they are losing money.

Look the bunches of holes in ADA related with the online education. That law is written when the only way to take classes was in a class room. Like this, are many other examples.









From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I beg to differ. it did have something to do with ADA as I was not being allowed to have it in my name because I was blind. no other reason whatsoever but blindness. it was simple enough to challenge and remind the state that I have every legal right to own a vehicle.





From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 4:15 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well that is true and this really owning a vehicle in your name has nothing to do with ADA at all. Only if you are driving one . In the case of being blind we are not allowed to drive one as of now. Now other disabilities is different. Say like people in a wheel chair or people with hearing loss and so on. They can drive cars as long as they can see and it can be adapted to be driven safe. This is where the complete automatic car comes in with no steering wheel or peddles to us as this would not matter then if you could see or not. As you would never have any kind of control over the vehicle. But ones with steering wheels and peddles and an override button would be different as this would allow you to disengage the automatic function and this would be a bad thing for us. Unless this was somehow was able to tell if you was a seeing person or not and then lock you out of that function. I assume maybe they would have it so you put in your DL if visual and if not then you would skip this step and you would be locked out of taking over.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:51 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



that was what I had to remind them of. the ADA and it does not matter if I own it as long as I do not drive it.



From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 3:27 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well they cannot as far as I know in any state stop you from owning a vehicle. This would be demonstrating against us. You should be able to be the only one on the title. If they tell you different I think they would be wrong. But I sure each state has their own laws about this. Here in Florida it is no problem to be the only one on the title as long as you have a desnated driver and insurance. Now a DL is a total different thing.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



several years ago I had to fight to have only my name on the title. I did win that fight.



From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:41 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Yes you can hear in Florida as well and most all states . there is a different in owning one and driving it or having control of it in the car. You can own one but you cannot drive one!





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I doubt I’ll run out and get one anyway, but sure would be interested in it.

I am going to guess they are going to be out of a lot of our price ranges.

I do know that in Washington blind people can own a vehicle. I do. lol



From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:27 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I don't really have a good idea about cost, but based on most of the articles I have read, this capability should not significantly impact the cost since they are using existing off the shelf technology as much as possible.

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Mitchel

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I am in rural Washington and think it would be more accepted in rural areas way before urban areas. I know a lot of the smaller towns already allow ATV’s to use the town streets. I could do so much right here in town I could care less if I ever was able to use it to get to another state or town.

any word of cost?





From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:32 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well yes I think that the more liberal (blue ) states and then the mix (purple ) states will come on board first. I think most of the conservative states (red ) states will be the later states to come on board. But while this is all nice I also think this will be in the more heavy populated area that you see them and then they will at some point spread on out.

Now this being said it will I think still be a long time before I think a blind person will be allowed to have a driver licensing to drive one of these cars. The nice thing about it no steering wheel means no one can drive it. So with that the ones with no steering wheel I think we will come closer to being able to have one and ride in it by our self. I think it will be different for those that have a steering wheel.

The one that is completely and totally automatic with no steering wheel I see no reason to deny us.

But the thing is this is for this state . So it might be legal for Michigan it will not be legal for other states . so then you will not be able to drive across state line. This is good start but till it becomes a national law to have and drive these in all states it would be a burden for some.

Now like me more than likely I would never leave my state so it would be fine. But I think Florida is going to be on the later end of this. As they are a very red state. But maybe not they might get on board as a safety issue. I just hope I not too dam old when it comes a national thing to be able to own and have a total automatic car that you can drive anywhere in the USA. I would be happy to have it like just my state legal to buy own and use one in my state. Since it would be total automatic with no steering wheel or peddles then I cannot see them denying us over our seeing partners as neither one would have any more control then the other. JST!





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:48 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



oh wow. this article did bring up something I never thought about: the misbehaving passengers. what will people do when there is no driver?

has anyone ever heard a price on the low end no driver cars?





From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:37 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



And the progress continues.

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/10/michigan-legalizes-consumer-sales-self-driving-vehicles-no-steering-wheels-pedals-required/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29


Re: Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required) #article

Carolyn Arnold
 

I can use an iPhone too, and my daughter-in-law calls me Techy Grandma, since I text back and forth to them, while her parents (both sighted), my age, do not at all.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)

But, does this also apply to blind ‘seniors’?

Whilst it may be the case in America that ‘just about every blind person’ one knows, has a smart phone, it isn’t necessarily true in other developed countries. In Ireland, certainly a good majority do own and use smart phones. But there are those (say over 50’s) who don’t, or can’t get their heads around using them, not having the confidence or aptitude, or due to a lack of experienced fellow users in their localities. BTW, that said, I’m over 50 myself, and I have no trouble using an iPhone!

From: Carlos <mailto:carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 12:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required) I agree. Although I don't have any statistics to support my impression, just about every blind person I know directly or am aware of owns a smart phone of some kind.

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)


I totally disagree with this I think there is a lot of blind people with smart phones and most don’t find them too hard to operate. Not that there is not some that would rather have a simple phone. That is their choice. You realize Uber does not have a phone number to call like taxi company. Uber is all just normal regular people doing a side job and not necessary doing this as a living. I sure there is some that is doing it full time . But it is their vehicle and their time . It not like a taxi company. Now I sure if you have a favorite Uber driver he or she might give you her or his cell phone so you could call them when you needed them. If you was a regular good paying customer.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 6:37 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)





But Uber is already engaging in a form of discrimination because they require customers to own a smart phone in order to book a ride, and most blind folks do not own smart phones because they either cannot afford them or else find them too difficult to learn and operate.



Gerald







From: Matt <mailto:matt.from.florida@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:08 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well it was not that long ago less than 8 years ago they updated the ADA. But yes it could use some more updating. But I don’t know what the ADA would have to do with Uber or taxies other than we have access to other. Another words you cannot be denied to ride in one because you are blind or have your Gide animal with you or whatever your service animal might be or might be far.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:38 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



ADA was written decades ago, when in United States the technology today available was science fiction.

We need to update our legal framework, technology moves faster than representatives and senators. Look UBER, in several places they don’t know what to do with uber. New York has been trying to handle UBER in the same way how they handle taxi companies. NY makes money with the licenses that the city provide to taxi drivers. Now they are losing money.

Look the bunches of holes in ADA related with the online education. That law is written when the only way to take classes was in a class room. Like this, are many other examples.









From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I beg to differ. it did have something to do with ADA as I was not being allowed to have it in my name because I was blind. no other reason whatsoever but blindness. it was simple enough to challenge and remind the state that I have every legal right to own a vehicle.





From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 4:15 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well that is true and this really owning a vehicle in your name has nothing to do with ADA at all. Only if you are driving one . In the case of being blind we are not allowed to drive one as of now. Now other disabilities is different. Say like people in a wheel chair or people with hearing loss and so on. They can drive cars as long as they can see and it can be adapted to be driven safe. This is where the complete automatic car comes in with no steering wheel or peddles to us as this would not matter then if you could see or not. As you would never have any kind of control over the vehicle. But ones with steering wheels and peddles and an override button would be different as this would allow you to disengage the automatic function and this would be a bad thing for us. Unless this was somehow was able to tell if you was a seeing person or not and then lock you out of that function. I assume maybe they would have it so you put in your DL if visual and if not then you would skip this step and you would be locked out of taking over.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:51 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



that was what I had to remind them of. the ADA and it does not matter if I own it as long as I do not drive it.



From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 3:27 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well they cannot as far as I know in any state stop you from owning a vehicle. This would be demonstrating against us. You should be able to be the only one on the title. If they tell you different I think they would be wrong. But I sure each state has their own laws about this. Here in Florida it is no problem to be the only one on the title as long as you have a desnated driver and insurance. Now a DL is a total different thing.





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



several years ago I had to fight to have only my name on the title. I did win that fight.



From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:41 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Yes you can hear in Florida as well and most all states . there is a different in owning one and driving it or having control of it in the car. You can own one but you cannot drive one!





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I doubt I’ll run out and get one anyway, but sure would be interested in it.

I am going to guess they are going to be out of a lot of our price ranges.

I do know that in Washington blind people can own a vehicle. I do. lol



From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 2:27 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I don't really have a good idea about cost, but based on most of the articles I have read, this capability should not significantly impact the cost since they are using existing off the shelf technology as much as possible.

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Mitchel

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



I am in rural Washington and think it would be more accepted in rural areas way before urban areas. I know a lot of the smaller towns already allow ATV’s to use the town streets. I could do so much right here in town I could care less if I ever was able to use it to get to another state or town.

any word of cost?





From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:32 PM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



Well yes I think that the more liberal (blue ) states and then the mix (purple ) states will come on board first. I think most of the conservative states (red ) states will be the later states to come on board. But while this is all nice I also think this will be in the more heavy populated area that you see them and then they will at some point spread on out.

Now this being said it will I think still be a long time before I think a blind person will be allowed to have a driver licensing to drive one of these cars. The nice thing about it no steering wheel means no one can drive it. So with that the ones with no steering wheel I think we will come closer to being able to have one and ride in it by our self. I think it will be different for those that have a steering wheel.

The one that is completely and totally automatic with no steering wheel I see no reason to deny us.

But the thing is this is for this state . So it might be legal for Michigan it will not be legal for other states . so then you will not be able to drive across state line. This is good start but till it becomes a national law to have and drive these in all states it would be a burden for some.

Now like me more than likely I would never leave my state so it would be fine. But I think Florida is going to be on the later end of this. As they are a very red state. But maybe not they might get on board as a safety issue. I just hope I not too dam old when it comes a national thing to be able to own and have a total automatic car that you can drive anywhere in the USA. I would be happy to have it like just my state legal to buy own and use one in my state. Since it would be total automatic with no steering wheel or peddles then I cannot see them denying us over our seeing partners as neither one would have any more control then the other. JST!





Thanks,

Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Mitchel
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:48 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



oh wow. this article did bring up something I never thought about: the misbehaving passengers. what will people do when there is no driver?

has anyone ever heard a price on the low end no driver cars?





From: Carlos

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:37 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: [TechTalk] Article: Michigan Legalizes Consumer Sales Of Self-Driving Vehicles (No Steering Wheels Or Pedals Required)



And the progress continues.

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/10/michigan-legalizes-consumer-sales-self-driving-vehicles-no-steering-wheels-pedals-required/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

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