Date   

Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Gene
 

Microsoft doesn't intend that users disable updates in Windows 10.  You can't do it by using the user intended interface.  If you are saying that Microsoft is off the hook because people would complain either way, that is not a correct argument.  I don't think most people would complain if updates were on by default.  They have been since Windows 95.  People are complaining because you can't do what you could do in earlier versions of Windows.  Set updates to notify you or download updates and then you would choose what to install.  You either disable updates completely, a bad idea, or accept all updates, not necessarily a good idea. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

if you don't want them, just go in and disable the services. its just how microsoft does stuff by default. and if they turned them all off by default you would have folks complaining about not getting the latest software automatically. so people complain with automatic updates turned on and others would complain if the service was fully disabled by default. its just a no win argument that's all.



On 6/19/2017 11:20 AM, Carlos wrote:
And again, even in Windows 7 automatic updates are enabled by default so this is not a valid argument.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

keep in mind though that microsoft is targeting the newbie computer user who could care less about checking for updates or updates at all. even in ubuntu linux if you don't go in and turn stuff off it will try to update your apps and your system for you. nice thing about linux though if i remember right is its easier to get to the place where you turn that stuff off at than it is in windows. but you're talking two different OS's that do stuff different ways and that is fine.



On 6/19/2017 9:48 AM, Jeremy wrote:
Stopping/disabling the service is honestly an unacceptable workaround for something that should have been left alone. Then again, I suppose it follows along the same thing as MS using almost malware tactics to push 10 on people to begin with. I appreciate the instructions though.
Take care.

On 6/18/2017 11:24 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

hey jeremy, do you want to disable windows update right now rather than waiting till 2050? here is how to do it.

go to run, type services.msc

tab to the list view, down arrow to windows update service, press alt enter, a dialog box comes up. down arrow to disable, tab to ok and hit enter then alt f4 out of the services.msc dialog box. there you go, your windows10 updates will never ever bother you again.



On 6/18/2017 11:08 PM, Jeremy wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans it up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll still virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one,  probably won’t be alive.  Beside; we don’t even know what a computer in 2050 will even be.  You probably won’t even have any keys.  Get real!  Ask a really relevant question, or don’t bother.  Pam.
 
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change
 

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly when computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting windows7 anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't even let windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.

 


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:

I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I ever will.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback and anyone can join the insider program.  Unfortunately, these issues have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft is going to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

From: Josh Kennedy

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos, can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how it is for other folks.

 

 

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows.  At least in terms of operation.  A newer version of Windows may have differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt.  It is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing the affect such changes have on others, but I think often people become frustrated by the differences and give up too soon.  The problem is that eventually you have to move on if you want to keep up with new technology.  Someone will always point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most users.  It may be possible to continue using outdated versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15 years?  When Microsoft has completely given up on XP altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or peripherals.  Some may even consider switching over to a completely different operating system, but learning a new operating system is generally more difficult for most users than adapting to a new version of one you may have been already using for years.  That is not to say it can't be done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be trivial.  You may take the time to learn a new operating system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks and idiosyncrasies.  Of course, there might be other reasons for switching over to a new operating system.  I have considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7 since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.  The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system for the technically faint of heart.  Accessibility has improved significantly in the last several years and sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.  Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often changing settings requires manual editing of configuration files.  Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and learning shortcut commands is also important for efficiency.  But in Windows 7, I don't think whether people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using Windows 7 if you know XP.  In my example of the shut down dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the shut down dialog.  that's how I work with the shut down dialog in Windows 7.  As far as other things are concerned, another example that might confuse people is what you see if you open something like the c drive and start tabbing.  You will see lots of fields that aren't present in XP.  But you can ignore them all and simply not tab around.  If you do that, the list view of files and folders is the same as in XP.  And the examples could go on and on.  I'll give one more.  If you like to use the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing so.  In XP, you could press and release the Windows key and then type r.  this is a trivial difference but one that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know it.  And a lot of operations are identical to XP.  I've just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the changes are where they exist in most cases.  I use Windows 7.  At times, I prefer using the start dialog search to open a program or to find where I would change settings for something.  but almost all I do in Windows 7 is either identical or almost identical to XP.  Once I realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a Windows 7 computer and started looking around and experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did before. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ann Parsons

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here.  I would just like to add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some because they are
afraid.  Part of the fear is that they will not remember or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is able to do
two things:  first, get away from dependence on keystroke learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered approach.  Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still does.  It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it competently.

I can tell you that the method does work.  I went to visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me this morning. 
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure.  I was able to retrieve my email
and read it and send it.  the commands for the screen reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y, she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the keyboard
side of things.  I tried an iPhone for two years.  I did very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things done fast
enough.  Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps are on my
BrailleNote Touch.  I'm a happy camper.  It may not work for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10 because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP, seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@...
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@...>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <geodom@...
>>>> <mailto:geodom@...>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@... <mailto:elvam2167@...>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



-- 
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sent with mozilla thunderbird email client

Virus-free. www.avg.com


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Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Carolyn Arnold
 

Who would have thought thirty-three years ago that there would be no more Woolworth's or W.T. Grant's? Who knows what is big now will be big in thirty-three years?

Best from,

Carolyn-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:17 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

I'm not counting on Microsoft necessarily being around. Businesses usually end up doing something to shoot themselves in the foot, after a while. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:26 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

I bet microsoft will have something in 2050 even if its not windows10 it'll be something. but everything then will probably be detachable tablets we won't call them computers anymore i don't think.



On 6/18/2017 11:16 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
haha Using Windows 10 in 2050 would be like using a Univac today!
Even I don't have one of those! My oldest machine is an Apple IIC.

On 18/06/2017, Jeremy <icu8it2@gmail.com> wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10
or some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans
it up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll
still virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one, probably won’t be alive. Beside; we don’t
even know what a computer in 2050 will even be. You probably won’t
even have any keys. Get real! Ask a really relevant question, or
don’t bother. Pam.
*From:* Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is
long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly
when computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting
windows7 anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't
even let
windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic
version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk
to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various
hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:
I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy
issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I
ever will.

*From:*main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] *On
Behalf Of *Carlos
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback
and anyone can join the insider program. Unfortunately, these
issues have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft
is going to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

*Subject:*Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new
major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and
better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos,
can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that
you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the
feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature
that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how
it is for other folks.

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows. At least
in terms of operation. A newer version of Windows may have
differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit
of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough
similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt. It
is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing
the affect such changes have on others, but I think often
people become frustrated by the differences and give up too
soon. The problem is that eventually you have to move on if
you want to keep up with new technology. Someone will always
point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS
or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most
users. It may be possible to continue using outdated
versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15
years? When Microsoft has completely given up on XP
altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to
maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or
peripherals. Some may even consider switching over to a
completely different operating system, but learning a new
operating system is generally more difficult for most users
than adapting to a new version of one you may have been
already using for years. That is not to say it can't be
done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux
for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be
trivial. You may take the time to learn a new operating
system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks
and idiosyncrasies. Of course, there might be other reasons
for switching over to a new operating system. I have
considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7
since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.
The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system
for the technically faint of heart. Accessibility has
improved significantly in the last several years and
sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when
something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.
Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often
changing settings requires manual editing of configuration
files. Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux
community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

*Subject:*Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and
learning shortcut commands is also important for
efficiency. But in Windows 7, I don't think whether
people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with
shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using
Windows 7 if you know XP. In my example of the shut down
dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have
to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the
shut down dialog. that's how I work with the shut down
dialog in Windows 7. As far as other things are
concerned, another example that might confuse people is
what you see if you open something like the c drive and
start tabbing. You will see lots of fields that aren't
present in XP. But you can ignore them all and simply
not tab around. If you do that, the list view of files
and folders is the same as in XP. And the examples could
go on and on. I'll give one more. If you like to use
the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you
press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing
so. In XP, you could press and release the Windows key
and then type r. this is a trivial difference but one
that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know
it. And a lot of operations are identical to XP. I've
just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the
changes are where they exist in most cases. I use
Windows 7. At times, I prefer using the start dialog
search to open a program or to find where I would change
settings for something. but almost all I do in Windows 7
is either identical or almost identical to XP. Once I
realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a
Windows 7 computer and started looking around and
experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did
before.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Ann Parsons <mailto:akp@sero.email>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Subject:*[TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here. I would just like to
add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some
because they are
afraid. Part of the fear is that they will not remember
or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user
is able to do
two things: first, get away from dependence on keystroke
learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they
understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who
base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid
than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered
approach. Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still
does. It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down
at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it
competently.

I can tell you that the method does work. I went to
visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum
braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me
this morning.
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure. I was able to
retrieve my email
and read it and send it. the commands for the screen
reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y,
she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on
the keyboard
side of things. I tried an iPhone for two years. I did
very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things
done fast
enough. Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps
are on my
BrailleNote Touch. I'm a happy camper. It may not work
for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is
somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's
fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think
may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was
the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to
infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and
why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be
skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I
think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your
strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other
explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out
another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people
have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7
isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing
out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same
way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception
but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be
demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost
identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the
changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with
by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with
them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting
down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down
dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't
have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message
is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it
wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for
your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to
the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that
in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to
be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find
them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people
prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent.
At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7.
Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7.
I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you
should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10
because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't
be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to
switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I
don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs
such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good
in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system
where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting
up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any
particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use
XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance
to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which
is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do
have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that
I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever
reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP,
seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and
to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a
conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither
does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and
trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text
using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained
that they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to
enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me,
and I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@gmail.com
<mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I
can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a
browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez
<geodom@optonline.net <mailto:geodom@optonline.net>
>>>> <mailto:geodom@optonline.net>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that
it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm
wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email
<mailto:akp@sero.email> <mailto:akp@sero.email>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all
those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@gmail.com
<mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com>
<mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email>
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email>
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



--

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Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Josh Kennedy
 

if you don't want them, just go in and disable the services. its just how microsoft does stuff by default. and if they turned them all off by default you would have folks complaining about not getting the latest software automatically. so people complain with automatic updates turned on and others would complain if the service was fully disabled by default. its just a no win argument that's all.



On 6/19/2017 11:20 AM, Carlos wrote:
And again, even in Windows 7 automatic updates are enabled by default so this is not a valid argument.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

keep in mind though that microsoft is targeting the newbie computer user who could care less about checking for updates or updates at all. even in ubuntu linux if you don't go in and turn stuff off it will try to update your apps and your system for you. nice thing about linux though if i remember right is its easier to get to the place where you turn that stuff off at than it is in windows. but you're talking two different OS's that do stuff different ways and that is fine.



On 6/19/2017 9:48 AM, Jeremy wrote:
Stopping/disabling the service is honestly an unacceptable workaround for something that should have been left alone. Then again, I suppose it follows along the same thing as MS using almost malware tactics to push 10 on people to begin with. I appreciate the instructions though.
Take care.

On 6/18/2017 11:24 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

hey jeremy, do you want to disable windows update right now rather than waiting till 2050? here is how to do it.

go to run, type services.msc

tab to the list view, down arrow to windows update service, press alt enter, a dialog box comes up. down arrow to disable, tab to ok and hit enter then alt f4 out of the services.msc dialog box. there you go, your windows10 updates will never ever bother you again.



On 6/18/2017 11:08 PM, Jeremy wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans it up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll still virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one,  probably won’t be alive.  Beside; we don’t even know what a computer in 2050 will even be.  You probably won’t even have any keys.  Get real!  Ask a really relevant question, or don’t bother.  Pam.
 
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change
 

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly when computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting windows7 anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't even let windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.

 


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:

I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I ever will.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback and anyone can join the insider program.  Unfortunately, these issues have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft is going to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

From: Josh Kennedy

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos, can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how it is for other folks.

 

 

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows.  At least in terms of operation.  A newer version of Windows may have differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt.  It is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing the affect such changes have on others, but I think often people become frustrated by the differences and give up too soon.  The problem is that eventually you have to move on if you want to keep up with new technology.  Someone will always point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most users.  It may be possible to continue using outdated versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15 years?  When Microsoft has completely given up on XP altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or peripherals.  Some may even consider switching over to a completely different operating system, but learning a new operating system is generally more difficult for most users than adapting to a new version of one you may have been already using for years.  That is not to say it can't be done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be trivial.  You may take the time to learn a new operating system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks and idiosyncrasies.  Of course, there might be other reasons for switching over to a new operating system.  I have considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7 since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.  The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system for the technically faint of heart.  Accessibility has improved significantly in the last several years and sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.  Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often changing settings requires manual editing of configuration files.  Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and learning shortcut commands is also important for efficiency.  But in Windows 7, I don't think whether people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using Windows 7 if you know XP.  In my example of the shut down dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the shut down dialog.  that's how I work with the shut down dialog in Windows 7.  As far as other things are concerned, another example that might confuse people is what you see if you open something like the c drive and start tabbing.  You will see lots of fields that aren't present in XP.  But you can ignore them all and simply not tab around.  If you do that, the list view of files and folders is the same as in XP.  And the examples could go on and on.  I'll give one more.  If you like to use the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing so.  In XP, you could press and release the Windows key and then type r.  this is a trivial difference but one that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know it.  And a lot of operations are identical to XP.  I've just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the changes are where they exist in most cases.  I use Windows 7.  At times, I prefer using the start dialog search to open a program or to find where I would change settings for something.  but almost all I do in Windows 7 is either identical or almost identical to XP.  Once I realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a Windows 7 computer and started looking around and experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did before. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ann Parsons

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here.  I would just like to add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some because they are
afraid.  Part of the fear is that they will not remember or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is able to do
two things:  first, get away from dependence on keystroke learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered approach.  Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still does.  It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it competently.

I can tell you that the method does work.  I went to visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me this morning. 
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure.  I was able to retrieve my email
and read it and send it.  the commands for the screen reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y, she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the keyboard
side of things.  I tried an iPhone for two years.  I did very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things done fast
enough.  Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps are on my
BrailleNote Touch.  I'm a happy camper.  It may not work for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10 because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP, seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@...
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@...>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <geodom@...
>>>> <mailto:geodom@...>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@... <mailto:elvam2167@...>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



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Re: Linux Questions

Gene
 

I don't know what version of DecTalk you are referring to.  Among others, there is the old hardware version, the software version available in Window-eyes and System Access to Go, and a version that is the most nonstandard in sound that was being sold by someone but I don't know if its available now.  Since I don't know what version you are referring to, and they are all different, your statement cannot be evaluated.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Linux Questions

I couldn't imagine myself using decktalk for long chunks of text.

On 18/06/17 9:04 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
> I don't think eloquence is as clear as Dec-talk, and it doesn't have
> great intonation.  If you are reading a long line and there is no pause,
> the voice just keeps going farther and farther down in pitch until it is
> at the bottom.  It sounds stupid.  Pam.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Rob
> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 4:37 PM
> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Linux Questions
>
> Eleni Vamvakari <elvam2167@...> wrote:
>> I don't know why everyone loves Eloquence.  It's okay, but not great.
>
> I love it because it's clear, has great intonation and does not sound
> like it's coming from inside a tin can, like espeak. I am very hard of
> hearing so clarity and good tone is important.
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>



Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Pamela Dominguez
 

A long time ago, I found out they can get your info. I have my phone through my cable company, so my phone number and address are theoretically unlisted, since Optimum says they would never publish a directory like the phone company. Anyway, one of the people who worked with George said she has our address and phone number. George asked her how she got it. She said she got it off the net. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajmund
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:32 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

they'd have to contact my carrier, or use some sort of an app. and if
you mean social networking, like what's app and iMessage, there's text
me and email address for those.

On 18/06/17 6:29 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
yes but there's lots of people out there who still have your name and email. how do you know your name is not being passed all around the internet and stuff? You can hide your caller ID, but there's still ways for people to get your phone number if they really want to.



On 6/18/2017 6:56 AM, Rajmund wrote:
I'm paranoid enough, to have hidden my caller ID. Josh, if I did that, do you think I will trust something like Microsoft?

On 18/06/17 1:43 AM, Carlos wrote:
You're still missing the point. As I said it is the principle. I respect that data gathering doesn't seem to bother you. Please respect the fact that not everyone may feel the same.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change


BIG DEAL THEY HAVE A DIAGNOSTIC TRACKING SERVICE THAT MAYBE records what you type. oops capslock was on there... anyway in order to do bad stuff to people with it they'd have to hire many many many employees to dig through all that data for each user's machine and those employees will want paid. I'll let the diagnostic service stuff turned on. it doesn't bother me. My a-plus network plus teacher was a former security expert and he told our class not to worry about that stuff back in 2011. he just said when you set up machines for employees, lock them down as tight as you can, then grant only the permissions those employees need for their jobs.



On 6/16/2017 11:46 PM, Carlos wrote:
It might be a viable option for some, but despite what the article says I think it would be severely limiting for most users accustomed to using certain types of modern applications. Besides, while I am perfectly comfortable using the command line, I personally don't miss the days of having to constantly type to perform the most basic operations.

The "Diagnostics Tracking Service" is a component added to Windows 7 I believe back in 2015 and was included in 10 from the beginning. See the following article for information about this service and what it does in Windows 10.
http://thepcwhisperer.blogspot.in/2014/10/microsofts-windows-10-preview-has-built.html
I mention it only to emphasize that Microsoft has initiated a trend of data gathering which began with Windows 10, has now spilled over into Windows 7, an I personally find it annoying. The fact is that the component was not originally part of Windows 7. It was quietly installed as an update without permission or explanation of it's purpose to users. I personally have nothing to hide, but as Rob correctly pointed out in an earlier message, it is the principle. Microsoft should not be collecting personal information without the users explicit consent. I don't recall being asked for permission. I don't recall being informed about this update or it's purpose. Of course, some will argue that Google and Apple have been doing the same for years, but this is not a valid defense in my opinion. It doesn't justify such practices. Especially from my point of view since I myself have never used either Android or iOS for personal transactions. Fortunately, disabling the service is fairly straight forward.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eleni Vamvakari" <elvam2167@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change


Ann, your points were interesting. But personally, I couldn't imagine
fearing an operating system, or technology in general. I simply like
what i like. If I found a different system that I enjoyed using, I
would do so. It has nothing to do with teachers either. I am
perfectly capable of following a manual or tutorial with the
appropriate commands. It's just that I like things that make sense.
When things start to become needlessly complicated, I avoid them.
While I enjoy learning trivia and facts, usually, when it comes to
computers, I want to know how to do something, not how the screen
looks (unless it's crutial to the understanding of the task) or why it
works. If you say that I can hit alt to get into a menu and that I
can either keep hitting down arrow to stay in that menu, or hit right
arrow to go to the next one, then hit enter to select something or alt
to exit all menus, that's all the explanation I need. The same holds
true with the windows-m alt-f-4 commands to shut down the computer.

I have been using Windows 7 for six or seven years, so it isn't as if
I'm new to it. But when I tried 8.0 and 8.1, I almost lost my mind!
Never again will I do that! From everything that i am hearing about
10, I'm glad that I stopped at 7. It sounds horrible.

Again, I realise that everyone is different, but in my case, I don't
need to have the latest technology. I just want something that works.
It's interesting that you mentioned DOS, Carlos. You and others may
find this quite interesting. It debunks many myths about the
operating system and shows why it is still a viable option today. My
only concern, from a blind perspective, is that, since I don't know of
any active development of screen readers for it, the newer versions,
either of the system itself or of various programs, may not be read
properly.

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Fal.html

I actually think that it would be easier for me to learn a new
operating system, because I'll be entering the learning process with
few preconceptions. It will all be new, and I can accept the system
for what it is, and not for what a prior version had. However, you
did make a valid point. Each system is different, and may present its
own .problems. I guess it's just a auestion of which ones someone is
willing to work on solving. Thank you for explaining the issues in
Linux. i really wanted to try it, but if it keeps breaking, or if I
can't find decent documentation for it, I would rather not be
frustrated. It's a shame, as it sounded like a good alternative!

Josh, that's a good point about updates. I like automatic ones as
well, since I don't need to worry about them. I have all of my
systems set that way. I'm glad that Windows 10 does have the ability
to turn off things that will never be used and that local accounts can
be created. It was almost impossible to do the latter in 8. The
Creator's Update also sounds interesting, as it comes with speech.
But do they still have the annoying live tiles and different types of
programs? I think they call them metro or modern apps and desktop
apps. I don't know. I hate searhing in Windows 7! Sometimes, it
can't find files that I know are there, and the search format is
terrible.

How do you use the virtual DOS machines, Josh? My interest is in a
real one, but for now, this may work. Do you use VMWare, and do you
use a hardware or a software synthesizer? I don't see how the latter
can work, unless the version of DOS that you're using can support it.
That would be a wonderful development indeed! I know of an unofficial
MSDOS 7.1, taken from Windows 95/98, but although those system have a
talking command prompt, when you get into real DOS from there, I think
it's the same as the previous versions from Microsoft in that it won't
recognise software synthesizers. Modern versions from other
manufacturers or developers may be different.

Carlos, what is the diagnostic tracking service, and why is it a
problem? Usually, mocrosoft collects information about your computer
itself, not about you as an individual. Has this changed?

Rajmund, I agree with you. If I have to install extra programs or
change so many settings in a machine that it's unrecognisable from
when I first turned it on, it's not worth it. Carolyn, learning a new
way to do something is fine, and even necessary, when you have
absolutely no other option. It is not when the old way still works.

Eleni

On 16/06/2017, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@windstream.net> wrote:
As my 79-year-old husband and an instructor at the Morehead
Training Center both have said, "we have to learn new ways
to do things we know how to do." They say that to give
people confidence. We know how to do these things. We just,
in some cases, have to learn another way to perform the same
task.

Best from,

Carolyn



-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ann Parsons
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 7:44 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here. I would just like to add
that the switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for
some because they are afraid. Part of the fear is that they
will not remember or understand keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is
able to do two things: first, get away from dependence on
keystroke learning; and second, have the ribbons explained
in a way they understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base
their training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid
than those who have learned their computer with a concept
centered approach. Cathy Ann Murtha promoted this type of
training and still does. It is effective because it allows
a user to be able to sit down at any computer running any
screen reader and operate it competently.

I can tell you that the method does work. I went to visit a
friend some years back, and she was running Windows with a
Baum braille display and their screen reader whose name
escapes me this morning.
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure. I was able to
retrieve my email and read it and send it. the commands for
the screen reader were different, but when I asked my friend
how to do X or Y, she gave me the commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the
keyboard side of things. I tried an iPhone for two years.
I did very little with it. It frustrated me because I
couldn't get things done fast enough. Now I have a flip
phone that I love and my apps are on my BrailleNote Touch.
I'm a happy camper. It may not work for others, but it's
working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat
long, however.
You may not want to continue the discussion and that's
fine. I may be
trying too hard to convince you of something I think may
benefit you.
But first, regarding number pad texting:
I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was
the context
and what someone might have been reasonably expected to
infer. Your
second message made much more clear what you were saying
and why. I
think your first message implied, not stated, what
appeared to be
skepticism. I'm not saying you intended to do so. I'm
saying that I
think it did, intended or not. You and others may
disagree.
I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong
resistance
to change. I say may be because there may be other
explanations and
you may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point
out another
possible explanation later.
I strongly believe that the main reason most people have
problems
switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't
explained
properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out
when they
look at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same
way as XP
generally. There may be this or that small exception but
if you know
XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be
demonstrated that
almost anything can be done identically or almost
identically with the
two systems.
If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the
changes in
Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by
giving
people more options and you don't have to work with them
if you don't
want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down
the computer
is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down
dialog that is
almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't
have to use the
new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is
already long enough.
If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it
wasn't clear to
you from looking at it yourself, that might account for
your hostility.
It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the
changes
easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in
general, if
well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be
able to be
mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them
in general
to be minor. if people do want to try them, many people
prefer to use
some of the changes.
So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At
first, I
thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now,
that isn't my
concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm
not saying
that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you
should not use
Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10
because of privacy
concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be
supported in
about two and a half years, some people might wish to
switch to Linux
for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I
don't know
enough about Linux to know if the same quality of programs
such as
reading programs are available or if accessibility is as
good in
Linux. I gather that Linux is more of a techie operating
system where
users may have to go through more procedures and problems
setting up
things like peripherals.
but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular
operating
system or version of Windows including whether you use XP
or not. As
I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to
change or
if Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which
is a
different reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If
you do have
resistance to change, looking at my material may convince
you that I
am right about Windows 7. If the reason is that for
whatever reason,
Windows 7 seems to you to be significantly different from
XP, seeing
my material may cause you to be less quick to reach
conclusions and to
seek out more information in future before reaching a
conclusion. If
either of these results occurs, you will benefit. If
neither does,
you'll have lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking
through and
trying procedures I use as examples.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
vast, you seem
to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
express their
ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
the
numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
use them
successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
simple word
and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
not the
only one who experiences such difficulties.
On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@gmail.com
<mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>> wrote:
agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
than a touch
screen, or so I'd imagine.
On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
see how
anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
researched the
letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
couldn't imagine
trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
Kyocera Rally
has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
connect an
external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
I have never
used that feature.
On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <geodom@optonline.net
<mailto:geodom@optonline.net>>
wrote:
I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
a number pad
of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
sure I will
be corrected. Pam.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone
Hi all,
I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.
Ann P.
--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email>
web site:
http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
Skype: Putertutor
"All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who
wander are
lost."



---
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--
Facebook: elvam2167@gmail.com
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Skype: elvam2167


--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email> web
site:
http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
Skype: Putertutor
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."






--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."








--
Facebook: elvam2167@gmail.com

Skype: elvam2167



--
sent with mozilla thunderbird email client







Re: Linux Questions

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

I couldn't imagine myself using decktalk for long chunks of text.

On 18/06/17 9:04 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
I don't think eloquence is as clear as Dec-talk, and it doesn't have great intonation. If you are reading a long line and there is no pause, the voice just keeps going farther and farther down in pitch until it is at the bottom. It sounds stupid. Pam.
-----Original Message----- From: Rob
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 4:37 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Linux Questions
Eleni Vamvakari <elvam2167@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know why everyone loves Eloquence. It's okay, but not great.
I love it because it's clear, has great intonation and does not sound like it's coming from inside a tin can, like espeak. I am very hard of hearing so clarity and good tone is important.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Carlos
 

And again, even in Windows 7 automatic updates are enabled by default so this is not a valid argument.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

keep in mind though that microsoft is targeting the newbie computer user who could care less about checking for updates or updates at all. even in ubuntu linux if you don't go in and turn stuff off it will try to update your apps and your system for you. nice thing about linux though if i remember right is its easier to get to the place where you turn that stuff off at than it is in windows. but you're talking two different OS's that do stuff different ways and that is fine.



On 6/19/2017 9:48 AM, Jeremy wrote:
Stopping/disabling the service is honestly an unacceptable workaround for something that should have been left alone. Then again, I suppose it follows along the same thing as MS using almost malware tactics to push 10 on people to begin with. I appreciate the instructions though.
Take care.

On 6/18/2017 11:24 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

hey jeremy, do you want to disable windows update right now rather than waiting till 2050? here is how to do it.

go to run, type services.msc

tab to the list view, down arrow to windows update service, press alt enter, a dialog box comes up. down arrow to disable, tab to ok and hit enter then alt f4 out of the services.msc dialog box. there you go, your windows10 updates will never ever bother you again.



On 6/18/2017 11:08 PM, Jeremy wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans it up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll still virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one,  probably won’t be alive.  Beside; we don’t even know what a computer in 2050 will even be.  You probably won’t even have any keys.  Get real!  Ask a really relevant question, or don’t bother.  Pam.
 
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change
 

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly when computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting windows7 anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't even let windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.

 


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:

I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I ever will.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback and anyone can join the insider program.  Unfortunately, these issues have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft is going to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

From: Josh Kennedy

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos, can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how it is for other folks.

 

 

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows.  At least in terms of operation.  A newer version of Windows may have differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt.  It is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing the affect such changes have on others, but I think often people become frustrated by the differences and give up too soon.  The problem is that eventually you have to move on if you want to keep up with new technology.  Someone will always point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most users.  It may be possible to continue using outdated versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15 years?  When Microsoft has completely given up on XP altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or peripherals.  Some may even consider switching over to a completely different operating system, but learning a new operating system is generally more difficult for most users than adapting to a new version of one you may have been already using for years.  That is not to say it can't be done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be trivial.  You may take the time to learn a new operating system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks and idiosyncrasies.  Of course, there might be other reasons for switching over to a new operating system.  I have considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7 since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.  The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system for the technically faint of heart.  Accessibility has improved significantly in the last several years and sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.  Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often changing settings requires manual editing of configuration files.  Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and learning shortcut commands is also important for efficiency.  But in Windows 7, I don't think whether people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using Windows 7 if you know XP.  In my example of the shut down dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the shut down dialog.  that's how I work with the shut down dialog in Windows 7.  As far as other things are concerned, another example that might confuse people is what you see if you open something like the c drive and start tabbing.  You will see lots of fields that aren't present in XP.  But you can ignore them all and simply not tab around.  If you do that, the list view of files and folders is the same as in XP.  And the examples could go on and on.  I'll give one more.  If you like to use the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing so.  In XP, you could press and release the Windows key and then type r.  this is a trivial difference but one that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know it.  And a lot of operations are identical to XP.  I've just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the changes are where they exist in most cases.  I use Windows 7.  At times, I prefer using the start dialog search to open a program or to find where I would change settings for something.  but almost all I do in Windows 7 is either identical or almost identical to XP.  Once I realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a Windows 7 computer and started looking around and experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did before. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ann Parsons

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here.  I would just like to add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some because they are
afraid.  Part of the fear is that they will not remember or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is able to do
two things:  first, get away from dependence on keystroke learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered approach.  Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still does.  It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it competently.

I can tell you that the method does work.  I went to visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me this morning. 
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure.  I was able to retrieve my email
and read it and send it.  the commands for the screen reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y, she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the keyboard
side of things.  I tried an iPhone for two years.  I did very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things done fast
enough.  Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps are on my
BrailleNote Touch.  I'm a happy camper.  It may not work for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10 because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP, seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@...
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@...>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <geodom@...
>>>> <mailto:geodom@...>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@... <mailto:elvam2167@...>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



-- 
sent with mozilla thunderbird email application

--
sent with mozilla thunderbird email client

Virus-free. www.avg.com


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Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Josh Kennedy
 

if microsoft isn't around I'm sure something will be and blind people will use it whatever it is.

On 6/19/2017 11:17 AM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
I'm not counting on Microsoft necessarily being around. Businesses usually
end up doing something to shoot themselves in the foot, after a while. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:26 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

I bet microsoft will have something in 2050 even if its not windows10
it'll be something. but everything then will probably be detachable
tablets we won't call them computers anymore i don't think.



On 6/18/2017 11:16 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
haha Using Windows 10 in 2050 would be like using a Univac today!
Even I don't have one of those! My oldest machine is an Apple IIC.

On 18/06/2017, Jeremy <icu8it2@gmail.com> wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or
some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans it
up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll still
virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one, probably won’t be alive. Beside; we don’t even
know what a computer in 2050 will even be. You probably won’t even
have any keys. Get real! Ask a really relevant question, or don’t
bother. Pam.
*From:* Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological
change

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is
long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly when
computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting windows7
anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't even let
windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic
version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk
to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various
hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:
I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy
issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I
ever will.

*From:*main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] *On
Behalf Of *Carlos
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback and
anyone can join the insider program. Unfortunately, these issues
have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft is going
to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

*Subject:*Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new
major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and
better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos,
can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that
you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the
feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature
that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how
it is for other folks.

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows. At least
in terms of operation. A newer version of Windows may have
differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit
of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough
similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt. It
is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing
the affect such changes have on others, but I think often
people become frustrated by the differences and give up too
soon. The problem is that eventually you have to move on if
you want to keep up with new technology. Someone will always
point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS
or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most
users. It may be possible to continue using outdated
versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15
years? When Microsoft has completely given up on XP
altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to
maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or
peripherals. Some may even consider switching over to a
completely different operating system, but learning a new
operating system is generally more difficult for most users
than adapting to a new version of one you may have been
already using for years. That is not to say it can't be
done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux
for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be
trivial. You may take the time to learn a new operating
system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks
and idiosyncrasies. Of course, there might be other reasons
for switching over to a new operating system. I have
considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7
since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.
The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system
for the technically faint of heart. Accessibility has
improved significantly in the last several years and
sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when
something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.
Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often
changing settings requires manual editing of configuration
files. Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux
community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

*Subject:*Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and
learning shortcut commands is also important for
efficiency. But in Windows 7, I don't think whether
people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with
shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using
Windows 7 if you know XP. In my example of the shut down
dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have
to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the
shut down dialog. that's how I work with the shut down
dialog in Windows 7. As far as other things are
concerned, another example that might confuse people is
what you see if you open something like the c drive and
start tabbing. You will see lots of fields that aren't
present in XP. But you can ignore them all and simply
not tab around. If you do that, the list view of files
and folders is the same as in XP. And the examples could
go on and on. I'll give one more. If you like to use
the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you
press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing
so. In XP, you could press and release the Windows key
and then type r. this is a trivial difference but one
that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know
it. And a lot of operations are identical to XP. I've
just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the
changes are where they exist in most cases. I use
Windows 7. At times, I prefer using the start dialog
search to open a program or to find where I would change
settings for something. but almost all I do in Windows 7
is either identical or almost identical to XP. Once I
realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a
Windows 7 computer and started looking around and
experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did
before.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Ann Parsons <mailto:akp@sero.email>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Subject:*[TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here. I would just like to
add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some
because they are
afraid. Part of the fear is that they will not remember
or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user
is able to do
two things: first, get away from dependence on keystroke
learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they
understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who
base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid
than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered
approach. Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still
does. It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down
at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it
competently.

I can tell you that the method does work. I went to
visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum
braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me
this morning.
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure. I was able to
retrieve my email
and read it and send it. the commands for the screen
reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y,
she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on
the keyboard
side of things. I tried an iPhone for two years. I did
very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things
done fast
enough. Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps
are on my
BrailleNote Touch. I'm a happy camper. It may not work
for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is
somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's
fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think
may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it
was
the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to
infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and
why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be
skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I
think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your
strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other
explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point
out
another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people
have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7
isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing
out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same
way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception
but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be
demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost
identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the
changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work
with
by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with
them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting
down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down
dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't
have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message
is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it
wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account
for
your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to
the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that
in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and
understood to
be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find
them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people
prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the
intent.
At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7.
Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7.
I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you
should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10
because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't
be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to
switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I
don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs
such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good
in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system
where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems
setting
up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any
particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use
XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of
resistance
to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different,
which
is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do
have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you
that
I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever
reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP,
seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions
and
to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a
conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither
does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through
and
trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think
and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text
using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that
they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to
enter
a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and
I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@gmail.com
<mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more
tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I
can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no
way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a
browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez
<geodom@optonline.net <mailto:geodom@optonline.net>
>>>> <mailto:geodom@optonline.net>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it
had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong,
I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email
<mailto:akp@sero.email> <mailto:akp@sero.email>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those
who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@gmail.com
<mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com> <mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email>
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email>
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



--

sent with mozilla thunderbird email application
--
sent with mozilla thunderbird email client

<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>

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Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Pamela Dominguez
 

I'm not counting on Microsoft necessarily being around. Businesses usually
end up doing something to shoot themselves in the foot, after a while. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:26 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

I bet microsoft will have something in 2050 even if its not windows10
it'll be something. but everything then will probably be detachable
tablets we won't call them computers anymore i don't think.



On 6/18/2017 11:16 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
haha Using Windows 10 in 2050 would be like using a Univac today!
Even I don't have one of those! My oldest machine is an Apple IIC.

On 18/06/2017, Jeremy <icu8it2@gmail.com> wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or
some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans it
up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll still
virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one, probably won’t be alive. Beside; we don’t even
know what a computer in 2050 will even be. You probably won’t even
have any keys. Get real! Ask a really relevant question, or don’t
bother. Pam.
*From:* Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological
change

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is
long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly when
computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting windows7
anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't even let
windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic
version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk
to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various
hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:
I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy
issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I
ever will.

*From:*main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] *On
Behalf Of *Carlos
*Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback and
anyone can join the insider program. Unfortunately, these issues
have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft is going
to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

*Subject:*Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new
major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and
better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos,
can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that
you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the
feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature
that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how
it is for other folks.

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows. At least
in terms of operation. A newer version of Windows may have
differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit
of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough
similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt. It
is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing
the affect such changes have on others, but I think often
people become frustrated by the differences and give up too
soon. The problem is that eventually you have to move on if
you want to keep up with new technology. Someone will always
point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS
or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most
users. It may be possible to continue using outdated
versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15
years? When Microsoft has completely given up on XP
altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to
maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or
peripherals. Some may even consider switching over to a
completely different operating system, but learning a new
operating system is generally more difficult for most users
than adapting to a new version of one you may have been
already using for years. That is not to say it can't be
done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux
for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be
trivial. You may take the time to learn a new operating
system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks
and idiosyncrasies. Of course, there might be other reasons
for switching over to a new operating system. I have
considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7
since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.
The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system
for the technically faint of heart. Accessibility has
improved significantly in the last several years and
sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when
something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.
Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often
changing settings requires manual editing of configuration
files. Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux
community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

*Subject:*Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and
learning shortcut commands is also important for
efficiency. But in Windows 7, I don't think whether
people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with
shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using
Windows 7 if you know XP. In my example of the shut down
dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have
to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the
shut down dialog. that's how I work with the shut down
dialog in Windows 7. As far as other things are
concerned, another example that might confuse people is
what you see if you open something like the c drive and
start tabbing. You will see lots of fields that aren't
present in XP. But you can ignore them all and simply
not tab around. If you do that, the list view of files
and folders is the same as in XP. And the examples could
go on and on. I'll give one more. If you like to use
the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you
press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing
so. In XP, you could press and release the Windows key
and then type r. this is a trivial difference but one
that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know
it. And a lot of operations are identical to XP. I've
just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the
changes are where they exist in most cases. I use
Windows 7. At times, I prefer using the start dialog
search to open a program or to find where I would change
settings for something. but almost all I do in Windows 7
is either identical or almost identical to XP. Once I
realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a
Windows 7 computer and started looking around and
experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did
before.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Ann Parsons <mailto:akp@sero.email>

*Sent:*Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Subject:*[TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and
technological change

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here. I would just like to
add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some
because they are
afraid. Part of the fear is that they will not remember
or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user
is able to do
two things: first, get away from dependence on keystroke
learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they
understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who
base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid
than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered
approach. Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still
does. It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down
at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it
competently.

I can tell you that the method does work. I went to
visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum
braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me
this morning.
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure. I was able to
retrieve my email
and read it and send it. the commands for the screen
reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y,
she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on
the keyboard
side of things. I tried an iPhone for two years. I did
very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things
done fast
enough. Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps
are on my
BrailleNote Touch. I'm a happy camper. It may not work
for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is
somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's
fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think
may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was
the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to
infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and
why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be
skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I
think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your
strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other
explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out
another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people
have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7
isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing
out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same
way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception
but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be
demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost
identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the
changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with
by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with
them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting
down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down
dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't
have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message
is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it
wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for
your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to
the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that
in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to
be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find
them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people
prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent.
At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7.
Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7.
I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you
should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10
because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't
be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to
switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I
don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs
such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good
in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system
where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting
up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any
particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use
XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance
to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which
is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do
have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that
I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever
reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP,
seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and
to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a
conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither
does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and
trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text
using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that
they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter
a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and
I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@gmail.com
<mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I
can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a
browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez
<geodom@optonline.net <mailto:geodom@optonline.net>
>>>> <mailto:geodom@optonline.net>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it
had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong,
I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email
<mailto:akp@sero.email> <mailto:akp@sero.email>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those
who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@gmail.com
<mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com> <mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email>
<mailto:akp@sero.email>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
<http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@sero.email <mailto:akp@sero.email>
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



--

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Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Josh Kennedy
 

keep in mind though that microsoft is targeting the newbie computer user who could care less about checking for updates or updates at all. even in ubuntu linux if you don't go in and turn stuff off it will try to update your apps and your system for you. nice thing about linux though if i remember right is its easier to get to the place where you turn that stuff off at than it is in windows. but you're talking two different OS's that do stuff different ways and that is fine.



On 6/19/2017 9:48 AM, Jeremy wrote:
Stopping/disabling the service is honestly an unacceptable workaround for something that should have been left alone. Then again, I suppose it follows along the same thing as MS using almost malware tactics to push 10 on people to begin with. I appreciate the instructions though.
Take care.

On 6/18/2017 11:24 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

hey jeremy, do you want to disable windows update right now rather than waiting till 2050? here is how to do it.

go to run, type services.msc

tab to the list view, down arrow to windows update service, press alt enter, a dialog box comes up. down arrow to disable, tab to ok and hit enter then alt f4 out of the services.msc dialog box. there you go, your windows10 updates will never ever bother you again.



On 6/18/2017 11:08 PM, Jeremy wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans it up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll still virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one,  probably won’t be alive.  Beside; we don’t even know what a computer in 2050 will even be.  You probably won’t even have any keys.  Get real!  Ask a really relevant question, or don’t bother.  Pam.
 
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change
 

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly when computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting windows7 anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't even let windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.

 


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:

I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I ever will.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback and anyone can join the insider program.  Unfortunately, these issues have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft is going to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

From: Josh Kennedy

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos, can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how it is for other folks.

 

 

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows.  At least in terms of operation.  A newer version of Windows may have differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt.  It is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing the affect such changes have on others, but I think often people become frustrated by the differences and give up too soon.  The problem is that eventually you have to move on if you want to keep up with new technology.  Someone will always point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most users.  It may be possible to continue using outdated versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15 years?  When Microsoft has completely given up on XP altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or peripherals.  Some may even consider switching over to a completely different operating system, but learning a new operating system is generally more difficult for most users than adapting to a new version of one you may have been already using for years.  That is not to say it can't be done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be trivial.  You may take the time to learn a new operating system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks and idiosyncrasies.  Of course, there might be other reasons for switching over to a new operating system.  I have considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7 since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.  The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system for the technically faint of heart.  Accessibility has improved significantly in the last several years and sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.  Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often changing settings requires manual editing of configuration files.  Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and learning shortcut commands is also important for efficiency.  But in Windows 7, I don't think whether people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using Windows 7 if you know XP.  In my example of the shut down dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the shut down dialog.  that's how I work with the shut down dialog in Windows 7.  As far as other things are concerned, another example that might confuse people is what you see if you open something like the c drive and start tabbing.  You will see lots of fields that aren't present in XP.  But you can ignore them all and simply not tab around.  If you do that, the list view of files and folders is the same as in XP.  And the examples could go on and on.  I'll give one more.  If you like to use the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing so.  In XP, you could press and release the Windows key and then type r.  this is a trivial difference but one that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know it.  And a lot of operations are identical to XP.  I've just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the changes are where they exist in most cases.  I use Windows 7.  At times, I prefer using the start dialog search to open a program or to find where I would change settings for something.  but almost all I do in Windows 7 is either identical or almost identical to XP.  Once I realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a Windows 7 computer and started looking around and experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did before. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ann Parsons

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here.  I would just like to add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some because they are
afraid.  Part of the fear is that they will not remember or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is able to do
two things:  first, get away from dependence on keystroke learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered approach.  Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still does.  It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it competently.

I can tell you that the method does work.  I went to visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me this morning. 
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure.  I was able to retrieve my email
and read it and send it.  the commands for the screen reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y, she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the keyboard
side of things.  I tried an iPhone for two years.  I did very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things done fast
enough.  Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps are on my
BrailleNote Touch.  I'm a happy camper.  It may not work for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10 because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP, seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@...
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@...>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <geodom@...
>>>> <mailto:geodom@...>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@... <mailto:elvam2167@...>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



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Re: Audio Game Hub 2.0 (Updated the 13th of June 2017)

Peter Spitz
 

Are any of these games playable on a computer or just the iPhone and
Android phones?<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
<table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
<tr>
<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
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alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
/></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e;
font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link"
target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
height="1"></a></div>

On 6/19/17, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@gmail.com> wrote:



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Audio Game Hub 2.0 (Updated the 13th of June 2017)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:24:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Trenton Matthews <queenslight16@gmail.com>
Reply-To: eyes-free@googlegroups.com
To: eyes-free <eyes-free@googlegroups.com>



https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.AUT.AudioGameHub&hl=en

Audio Game Hub 2.0 introduces 3 new games to the award winning Audio
Game Hub with a fresh installment of new features and sensational
sound-effects!

Race against the clock and disarm bombs in Bomb Disarmer, follow Simon
as he leads you through unlocking complicated patterns in Super Simon,
or sit at the round table and enjoy a casual game of Blackjack.

Audio Game Hub is a set of experimental arcade audiogames that use audio
as their primary interface – making them accessible for both sighted and
non-sighted users.

Audio Game Hub provides a medium to develop and improve motoric,
auditory and memory skills by training them in a fun and stimulating way!

Audiogames:
★ Bomb Disarmer (up to 10 player)
★ Super Simon (up to 10 player)
★ Blackjack (Casino)
★ Slot Machines (Casino)
★ Archery
★ Hunt
★ Samurai Tournament (up to 4 player)
★ Samuari Dojo (up to 4 player)
★ Labyrinth
★ Animal Farm (Memory)
★ Blocks (Bejeweld)

Coming Soon:
★Animal Escape
★Runner

Think you can do it with your eyes closed?

Find out more at www.audiogamehub.com.

It is very difficult to reach the visually impaired community. Please
show us your support by spreading the word about our games.

What's new in Audio Game Hub 2.0
* 3 brand new games:
- Blackjack
- Super Simon
- Bomb Disarmer
* 58 Achievements
* Re-mastered menu system
* Leader boards - for each game!
* Integrated news section
* Scalable fonts
* High contrast mode
* Added casino games section
* Performance optimizations
* Euphoric music and 40+ sound packs for Simon game
Starting from version 2.0 games are paid. There is an option to play for
free by watching advertisements.
Black Jack and Slot Machines remain free games



ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Updated
June 13, 2017
Installs
10,000 - 50,000
Current Version
2.0.7a
Requires Android
4.0.3 and up
Content Rating
Teen
Simulated Gambling
--
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eyes-free+owners@googlegroups.com. -- https://goo.gl/rDveM8
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Re: Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

Josh Kennedy
 

if you have the money and a chance, get yourself some USB headphones, that way if you do not have audio you can plug thoe in until you get your audio drivers installed and the USB headphones will let you install audio drivers without sighted help.



On 6/19/2017 9:22 AM, Michael Boyd wrote:

Hi Gene,

 

The time limit for rolling back to the previous Windows version is 10 days. Unfortunately for me, it had been 16 days, so I had to perform a clean install from the ISO image. This meant that I also had to install most of the drivers for the Anniversary version which I reverted back to. I had no audio after the reversion, and had to rely on sighted help to install the audio driver. Performing a simple update should not cause someone so much trouble. We live and learn I suppose.

 

Michael

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

 

We don't know if there is one problem or more.  We know there is a problem with some drivers, but problems such as with Internet Explorer and with other programs were reported.  Drivers don't affect such programs.  I'm not sure what the best thing to do is.  Perhaps the best thing is to roll back to your previous configuration.  I believe you have about a month to do so.  At some point, the update will be forced on you but with luck, that may not be for awhile.  If you have problems when you update again, even if drivers are available, I'm not sure what the next step should be.  But at least, rolling back might stop the problems for now. 

 

Gene 
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 11:02 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

 

Hi. I would suggest if the problem is major unbareable u download the windows 10 latest iso and start clean

 

On Jun 18, 2017 8:06 AM, "Michael Boyd" <mike122061@...> wrote:

Hello Tech Talk group,

 

My name is Michael. For all of you people who have joined since I was last a member of this group. Hello to you for the first time, and to all of you long timers, hello, again.

 

I now have a Lenovo Desktop PC which came with Windows 10 installed from the factory. A couple of weeks ago I updated to the Windows 10 Creator’s update, and I immediately began experiencing problems with my Office apps as well as Internet Explorer and some other built-in Windows apps. After ruling out a problem with my computer and a Jaws problem, I then discovered that Lenovo has not yet released the Creator’s update compapible drivers for many of their products. I was wondering if some of you other list members might be Lenovo owners and have experienced the same issue? I would be interested to know. Thanks.

 

Michael

 

 

 


-- 
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Re: Transferring Office 2016 Licenses

Marie <magpie.mn@...>
 

You can call Microsoft accessibility support and explain the situation and they may be able to help. If not,, on the BST list a guy is selling product keys for the Pro version for $35.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 5:49 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Transferring Office 2016 Licenses

I bought office a few months ago and linked it to my Microsqueak account.
Normally I would not do something like that, preferring to live with my feet on the ground and not in the cloud, ha ha. However, I was under the impression that I would be able to transfer my license from one computer to another once I switched machines. This appears, unfortunately, not to be the case. Do I have any recourse other than to buy a new license?


Audio Game Hub 2.0 (Updated the 13th of June 2017)

Josh Kennedy
 




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Audio Game Hub 2.0 (Updated the 13th of June 2017)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:24:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Trenton Matthews <queenslight16@...>
Reply-To: eyes-free@...
To: eyes-free <eyes-free@...>



Audio Game Hub 2.0 introduces 3 new games to the award winning Audio Game Hub with a fresh installment of new features and sensational sound-effects!

Race against the clock and disarm bombs in Bomb Disarmer, follow Simon as he leads you through unlocking complicated patterns in Super Simon, or sit at the round table and enjoy a casual game of Blackjack. 

Audio Game Hub is a set of experimental arcade audiogames that use audio as their primary interface – making them accessible for both sighted and non-sighted users.

Audio Game Hub provides a medium to develop and improve motoric, auditory and memory skills by training them in a fun and stimulating way! 

Audiogames:
★ Bomb Disarmer (up to 10 player)
★ Super Simon (up to 10 player)
★ Blackjack (Casino)
★ Slot Machines (Casino)
★ Archery
★ Hunt
★ Samurai Tournament (up to 4 player)
★ Samuari Dojo (up to 4 player)
★ Labyrinth
★ Animal Farm (Memory)
★ Blocks (Bejeweld)

Coming Soon:
★Animal Escape
★Runner

Think you can do it with your eyes closed?

Find out more at www.audiogamehub.com.

It is very difficult to reach the visually impaired community. Please show us your support by spreading the word about our games.

What's new in Audio Game Hub 2.0
* 3 brand new games:
- Blackjack
- Super Simon
- Bomb Disarmer
* 58 Achievements
* Re-mastered menu system
* Leader boards - for each game!
* Integrated news section
* Scalable fonts
* High contrast mode
* Added casino games section
* Performance optimizations
* Euphoric music and 40+ sound packs for Simon game
Starting from version 2.0 games are paid. There is an option to play for free by watching advertisements.
Black Jack and Slot Machines remain free games
--
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Re: Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

Gene
 

Ten days isn't enough time. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

Hi Gene,

 

The time limit for rolling back to the previous Windows version is 10 days. Unfortunately for me, it had been 16 days, so I had to perform a clean install from the ISO image. This meant that I also had to install most of the drivers for the Anniversary version which I reverted back to. I had no audio after the reversion, and had to rely on sighted help to install the audio driver. Performing a simple update should not cause someone so much trouble. We live and learn I suppose.

 

Michael

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

 

We don't know if there is one problem or more.  We know there is a problem with some drivers, but problems such as with Internet Explorer and with other programs were reported.  Drivers don't affect such programs.  I'm not sure what the best thing to do is.  Perhaps the best thing is to roll back to your previous configuration.  I believe you have about a month to do so.  At some point, the update will be forced on you but with luck, that may not be for awhile.  If you have problems when you update again, even if drivers are available, I'm not sure what the next step should be.  But at least, rolling back might stop the problems for now. 

 

Gene 
----- Original Message -----

From: Austin Pinto

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 11:02 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

 

Hi. I would suggest if the problem is major unbareable u download the windows 10 latest iso and start clean

 

On Jun 18, 2017 8:06 AM, "Michael Boyd" <mike122061@...> wrote:

Hello Tech Talk group,

 

My name is Michael. For all of you people who have joined since I was last a member of this group. Hello to you for the first time, and to all of you long timers, hello, again.

 

I now have a Lenovo Desktop PC which came with Windows 10 installed from the factory. A couple of weeks ago I updated to the Windows 10 Creator’s update, and I immediately began experiencing problems with my Office apps as well as Internet Explorer and some other built-in Windows apps. After ruling out a problem with my computer and a Jaws problem, I then discovered that Lenovo has not yet released the Creator’s update compapible drivers for many of their products. I was wondering if some of you other list members might be Lenovo owners and have experienced the same issue? I would be interested to know. Thanks.

 

Michael

 

 

 


Re: keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Stopping/disabling the service is honestly an unacceptable workaround for something that should have been left alone. Then again, I suppose it follows along the same thing as MS using almost malware tactics to push 10 on people to begin with. I appreciate the instructions though.
Take care.

On 6/18/2017 11:24 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

hey jeremy, do you want to disable windows update right now rather than waiting till 2050? here is how to do it.

go to run, type services.msc

tab to the list view, down arrow to windows update service, press alt enter, a dialog box comes up. down arrow to disable, tab to ok and hit enter then alt f4 out of the services.msc dialog box. there you go, your windows10 updates will never ever bother you again.



On 6/18/2017 11:08 PM, Jeremy wrote:
Lol, very well said. I especially liked:
"it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS"

Crap, if I'm stuck with 10 in 2050, here's hoping MS at least cleans it up a bit and gives us the ability to disable windows update. I'll still virtualise Windows7 for a prettier interface, if not.
Take care. :)
On 6/18/2017 3:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
In 2050, I, for one,  probably won’t be alive.  Beside; we don’t even know what a computer in 2050 will even be.  You probably won’t even have any keys.  Get real!  Ask a really relevant question, or don’t bother.  Pam.
 
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change
 

so you are going to be running windows7 in the year 2050 when it is long long long long past support? how is that gunna work exactly when computers in the year 2050 probably won't even be supporting windows7 anymore? heck computers in the year 2050 probably won't even let windows7 boot up. it'll probably be some very advanced futuristic version of windows10 or some super advanced google OS, that you talk to your computer with your voice 80 or 90% of the time, use various hand gestures and type with the keyboard for documents.

 


On 6/17/2017 6:39 AM, Dennis L wrote:

I agree with you Carlos I don’t want forced updates and the privacy issues thus why I haven’t upgraded to windows10 and don’t know if I ever will.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:39 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

I appreciate the sentiment Josh, but I know how to give feedback and anyone can join the insider program.  Unfortunately, these issues have already been discussed to death and I doubt Microsoft is going to do anything about forced updates and the potential privacy issues.

----- Original Message -----

From: Josh Kennedy

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

so far windows10 is working very good for me. And with each new major windows10 release it seems to be just getting better and better. I also use feedback hub and give them feedback. carlos, can you tell me the specific direction windows10 is going that you do not like? if you tell me I will write them feedback in the feedback hub so perhaps they can change it or add some feature that will push it in the direction you like while keeping it how it is for other folks.

 

 

On 6/16/2017 1:36 PM, Carlos wrote:

This is why I always say that Windows is Windows.  At least in terms of operation.  A newer version of Windows may have differences in it's interface and Microsoft has a bad habit of making unnecessary changes, but there are usually enough similarities that it only takes me a few days to adapt.  It is possible that as an advanced user I may be trivializing the affect such changes have on others, but I think often people become frustrated by the differences and give up too soon.  The problem is that eventually you have to move on if you want to keep up with new technology.  Someone will always point out the exceptions they know who are still running DOS or Windows 95, but that simply isn't realistic for most users.  It may be possible to continue using outdated versions such as XP for now, but what about in 10 or 15 years?  When Microsoft has completely given up on XP altogether, security becomes more effort than it's worth to maintain, and it just won't work with modern hardware or peripherals.  Some may even consider switching over to a completely different operating system, but learning a new operating system is generally more difficult for most users than adapting to a new version of one you may have been already using for years.  That is not to say it can't be done, but if you have the technical fortitude to learn Linux for example, then learning a new version of Windows should be trivial.  You may take the time to learn a new operating system only to discover that it has it's own annoying quirks and idiosyncrasies.  Of course, there might be other reasons for switching over to a new operating system.  I have considered doing so myself after support ends for Windows 7 since I don't like Windows 10 and the direction it's going.  The problem with Linux is that it is not an operating system for the technically faint of heart.  Accessibility has improved significantly in the last several years and sometimes everything works as expected, but it's when something goes wrong that many users may have difficulties.  Even with modern desktop based distributions, quite often changing settings requires manual editing of configuration files.  Even getting help and finding answers in the Linux community can be daunting at times.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Yes, learning the underlying structure is important and learning shortcut commands is also important for efficiency.  But in Windows 7, I don't think whether people learn keystrokes, or underlying concepts with shortcuts, or both matters in terms of ease of using Windows 7 if you know XP.  In my example of the shut down dialog, to see almost the identical dialog, all you have to do is move to the desktop, then use alt f4 to open the shut down dialog.  that's how I work with the shut down dialog in Windows 7.  As far as other things are concerned, another example that might confuse people is what you see if you open something like the c drive and start tabbing.  You will see lots of fields that aren't present in XP.  But you can ignore them all and simply not tab around.  If you do that, the list view of files and folders is the same as in XP.  And the examples could go on and on.  I'll give one more.  If you like to use the run dialog, in Windows 7 you have to be sure you press and hold the Windows key and type r while doing so.  In XP, you could press and release the Windows key and then type r.  this is a trivial difference but one that could cause lots of frustration if you don't know it.  And a lot of operations are identical to XP.  I've just chosen this example to illustrate how trivial the changes are where they exist in most cases.  I use Windows 7.  At times, I prefer using the start dialog search to open a program or to find where I would change settings for something.  but almost all I do in Windows 7 is either identical or almost identical to XP.  Once I realized I could use Windows 7 in this way, after I got a Windows 7 computer and started looking around and experimenting, I was able to do almost everything I did before. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ann Parsons

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:43 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] keyboards VS touch screens and technological change

 

Morning all,

Gene, I like your rebuttal here.  I would just like to add that the
switch between XP and win7 could be difficult for some because they are
afraid.  Part of the fear is that they will not remember or understand
keystrokes.

I agree that much of the fear can be lessened if the user is able to do
two things:  first, get away from dependence on keystroke learning; and
second, have the ribbons explained in a way they understand.

I have found that those who are trained by teachers who base their
training curricula on keystrokes are much more afraid than those who
have learned their computer with a concept centered approach.  Cathy
Ann Murtha promoted this type of training and still does.  It is
effective because it allows a user to be able to sit down at any
computer running any screen reader and operate it competently.

I can tell you that the method does work.  I went to visit a friend
some years back, and she was running Windows with a Baum braille
display and their screen reader whose name escapes me this morning. 
Hmmm, Hal comes to mind, but not sure.  I was able to retrieve my email
and read it and send it.  the commands for the screen reader were
different, but when I asked my friend how to do X or Y, she gave me the
commands and I did fine.

As for keyboards VS touch screens, I have to weigh in on the keyboard
side of things.  I tried an iPhone for two years.  I did very little
with it. It frustrated me because I couldn't get things done fast
enough.  Now I have a flip phone that I love and my apps are on my
BrailleNote Touch.  I'm a happy camper.  It may not work for others,
but it's working for me.

Ann P.

Original message:
> I'll make this message as short as I can. It is somewhat long, however.
> You may not want to continue the discussion and that's fine. I may be
> trying too hard to convince you of something I think may benefit you.
> But first, regarding number pad texting:
> I wasn't concerned with what you literally said. it was the context and
> what someone might have been reasonably expected to infer. Your second
> message made much more clear what you were saying and why. I think your
> first message implied, not stated, what appeared to be skepticism. I'm
> not saying you intended to do so. I'm saying that I think it did,
> intended or not. You and others may disagree.
> I also wrote what I did because of what may be your strong resistance
> to change. I say may be because there may be other explanations and you
> may not actually be resistant to change. I'll point out another
> possible explanation later.
> I strongly believe that the main reason most people have problems
> switching from XP to Windows 7 is because Windows 7 isn't explained
> properly to them or they don't see what I'm pointing out when they look
> at it. Windows 7 allows you to do things in the same way as XP
> generally. There may be this or that small exception but if you know
> XP, if the similarities are pointed out, it can be demonstrated that
> almost anything can be done identically or almost identically with the
> two systems.
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is fine but most of the changes in
> Windows 7 actually make it more convenient to work with by giving
> people more options and you don't have to work with them if you don't
> want to. To take one example, a new way of shutting down the computer
> is available in Windows 7. But you can use a shut down dialog that is
> almost identical in Windows 7 to that in XP. You don't have to use the
> new way. I won't give more examples here--the message is already long enough.
> If Windows 7 wasn't presented to you in that way or it wasn't clear to
> you from looking at it yourself, that might account for your hostility.
> It may have nothing to do with resistance to change.
> I'm not assuming you will find learning or adapting to the changes
> easy. I don't assume how people will learn. I say that in general, if
> well taught, the changes can be shown and understood to be able to be
> mostly avoided if desired and many people would find them in general to
> be minor. if people do want to try them, many people prefer to use some
> of the changes.
> So, if what I wrote seems pushy, that isn't the intent. At first, I
> thought you might be better served using Windows 7. Now, that isn't my
> concern. I'm not saying that you should use Windows 7. I'm not saying
> that you shouldn't use XP and I'm not saying that you should not use
> Linux. given some peoples' objections to Windows 10 because of privacy
> concerns and forced updates and since Windows 7 won't be supported in
> about two and a half years, some people might wish to switch to Linux
> for such reasons instead of upgrading to Windows 7. I don't know enough
> about Linux to know if the same quality of programs such as reading
> programs are available or if accessibility is as good in Linux. I
> gather that Linux is more of a techie operating system where users may
> have to go through more procedures and problems setting up things like
> peripherals.
> but I'm not trying to convince you to use any particular operating
> system or version of Windows including whether you use XP or not. As
> I've said, I don't know if you have a lot of resistance to change or if
> Windows 7 just seems to you to be very different, which is a different
> reason. That's why I'm going into all this. If you do have resistance
> to change, looking at my material may convince you that I am right
> about Windows 7. If the reason is that for whatever reason, Windows 7
> seems to you to be significantly different from XP, seeing my material
> may cause you to be less quick to reach conclusions and to seek out
> more information in future before reaching a conclusion. If either of
> these results occurs, you will benefit. If neither does, you'll have
> lost nothing but perhaps an hour of looking through and trying
> procedures I use as examples.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Gene, while your knowledge of technology is obviously
> vast, you seem
>> to like to tell people what to do and how to think and
> express their
>> ideas. I never said that other people couldn't text using
> the
>> numberpad. Clearly, several here have explained that they
> use them
>> successfully. I said that I couldn't. I tried to enter a
> simple word
>> and became extremely frustrated. It's not for me, and I'm
> not the
>> only one who experiences such difficulties.

>> On 15/06/2017, Rajmund <brajmund2000@...
>> <mailto:brajmund2000@...>> wrote:
>>> agree with keypad phones. they have to be more tedious
> than a touch
>>> screen, or so I'd imagine.

>>> On 14/06/17 7:04 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>>>> I don't ever text, but even if I were to do so, I can't
> see how
>>>> anyone can write quickly with numbers. I actually
> researched the
>>>> letter/number combinations, out of curiosity, but I
> couldn't imagine
>>>> trying to navigate the Internet, etc. like that. My
> Kyocera Rally
>>>> has a regular telephone keyboard on it and no way to
> connect an
>>>> external qwerty. This is why, though it has a browser,
> I have never
>>>> used that feature.

>>>> On 14/06/2017, Pamela Dominguez <geodom@...
>>>> <mailto:geodom@...>>
> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know that it does. I just thought that it had
> a number pad
>>>>> of buttons that you could feel. But if I'm wrong, I'm
> sure I will
>>>>> be corrected. Pam.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ann Parsons
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:36 AM
>>>>> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] QWERTY Phone

>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>> I believe the Samsung Gusto has a QWERTY keyboard.

>>>>> Ann P.

>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann K. Parsons
>>>>> Portal Tutoring
>>>>> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
>>>>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
>>>>> Skype: Putertutor

>>>>> "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who
> wander are
>>>>> lost."




>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>













>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@... <mailto:elvam2167@...>

>> Skype: elvam2167



> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> Portal Tutoring
> ** New EMAIL: akp@... <mailto:akp@...>
> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info <http://www.portaltutoring.info>
> Skype: Putertutor

> "All that is gold does not glitter,
> Not all those who wander are lost."







>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



-- 
sent with mozilla thunderbird email application

--
sent with mozilla thunderbird email client

Virus-free. www.avg.com


-- 
sent with mozilla thunderbird


Re: free youtube to mp3 converter

Michael Boyd <mike122061@...>
 

Hi Heather,

 

Not sure which antivirus program you use, but you should be able to create an exception for the Youtube to mp3 converter program to be allowed to run on your computer. You should be able to do this without completely disabling your antivirus while you are running the          converter. C

 

Michael

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of heather albright
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 12:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] free youtube to mp3 converter

 

Hello, I used to have a program called free youtube to mp3 converter but, my virus program thought it was a threat and instead of asking me, it took it off my drive! I think it was 1. Something. I wonder if anyone happens to have this program. I tried listen to you tubebut, it saids my flash is out of date or something! Thank you all. Cheers Heather

 

"Blindness is a characteristic, not a handicap!" Dr. Kenneth Jernigan
contact:
e-mail:
kd5cbl@...
skype: cynterline
ham call sign:
kd5cbl
sites:
National Federation of The Blind:
www.nfb.org
how the blind do it:
www.blindhow.com

 

Gateway Authentication Failure

Gateway Authentication Failure. Please contact your Service Provider.


Re: Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

Michael Boyd <mike122061@...>
 

Hi Gene,

 

The time limit for rolling back to the previous Windows version is 10 days. Unfortunately for me, it had been 16 days, so I had to perform a clean install from the ISO image. This meant that I also had to install most of the drivers for the Anniversary version which I reverted back to. I had no audio after the reversion, and had to rely on sighted help to install the audio driver. Performing a simple update should not cause someone so much trouble. We live and learn I suppose.

 

Michael

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

 

We don't know if there is one problem or more.  We know there is a problem with some drivers, but problems such as with Internet Explorer and with other programs were reported.  Drivers don't affect such programs.  I'm not sure what the best thing to do is.  Perhaps the best thing is to roll back to your previous configuration.  I believe you have about a month to do so.  At some point, the update will be forced on you but with luck, that may not be for awhile.  If you have problems when you update again, even if drivers are available, I'm not sure what the next step should be.  But at least, rolling back might stop the problems for now. 

 

Gene 
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 11:02 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 10 Creator's update and Lenovo computers

 

Hi. I would suggest if the problem is major unbareable u download the windows 10 latest iso and start clean

 

On Jun 18, 2017 8:06 AM, "Michael Boyd" <mike122061@...> wrote:

Hello Tech Talk group,

 

My name is Michael. For all of you people who have joined since I was last a member of this group. Hello to you for the first time, and to all of you long timers, hello, again.

 

I now have a Lenovo Desktop PC which came with Windows 10 installed from the factory. A couple of weeks ago I updated to the Windows 10 Creator’s update, and I immediately began experiencing problems with my Office apps as well as Internet Explorer and some other built-in Windows apps. After ruling out a problem with my computer and a Jaws problem, I then discovered that Lenovo has not yet released the Creator’s update compapible drivers for many of their products. I was wondering if some of you other list members might be Lenovo owners and have experienced the same issue? I would be interested to know. Thanks.

 

Michael

 

 

 


facebook and twitter

Kathy Pingstock
 

Good morning

 

I have two questions I wanted to find out how to link a facebook page with a twitter page, and then how to link a facebook page with another page.

 

Thank you

 

Kathy  


Re: Sales Envoice

Michael Boyd <mike122061@...>
 

How about creating your own in Excell? It isn't too hard to do if you know what you are selling and a few basic Excel formulas.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Allen West
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Sales Envoice

I am looking for an accessible sales invoice program so that I can submit invoices to a company that I have contracted with. I have tried the sales invoice in excel 365 and found it is not accessible with JAWS. I am assuming that it would not be accessible with NVDA either.
Any suggestions?

Kindest regards

Allen

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