Date   

Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Carolyn Arnold
 

Yeah, your own Grade 3 works fine.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn White [mailto:lynnwhite360@radioforlife.info]
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 1:54 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

I used it during college. After awhile, you start making up your own Grade 3.


On 11/1/2015 12:00 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:


Have you ever taken grade three braille? I don’t know if Hadley still teaches it, but I know they used to. I started learning it, but didn’t finish. Pam.

From: Flor Lynch <mailto:florlync@iol.ie>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:20 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

For me, my braille shorthand ideas came about before my last year at uni, for doing drafts of my essays and assignments. My submitted assignments were typed out. In my mind I still often think in words comprised of my own abbreviations as well as the regular ‘Grade 2’. It’s like so much of what we learned as primary (or secondary) school braille readers, is quite arbitrary after all.

So, adults and new braille learners had a hard time figuring out why some practices were in – but others were out.

From: Walt Smith <mailto:ka3lists@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 11:55 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
Jim -

I think you're like almost every braille user I ever knew -- you've got your own shorthand which, if you ever shared it with another person, would probably seem to be Greek. <g> When I look back on some of my grad school notes today, even *I* don't have any idea what I was talking about!

________________________________

From: Jim Wohlgamuth [mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:56 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille


I certainly do understand that, but when I am taking notes and I write the sentense
'I like that.' it is much quicker to use braille contractions. But I guess if you are writing notes for your own consumption it really doesn't matter what you use as long as you can understand them<SMILE!>. THANKS & Have A Great Day! de
<KF8LT><Jim>.


Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Carolyn Arnold
 

I learned some Braille short hand too. When I was a secretary, between what I used of that and Grade 3, I could keep up. When I took a couple of medical courses at Baylor, it enable me to take thorough notes.

I remember more Grade 3 than short hand.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Dominguez [mailto:geodom@optonline.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 1:01 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Have you ever taken grade three braille? I don’t know if Hadley still teaches it, but I know they used to. I started learning it, but didn’t finish. Pam.

From: Flor Lynch <mailto:florlync@iol.ie>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:20 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

For me, my braille shorthand ideas came about before my last year at uni, for doing drafts of my essays and assignments. My submitted assignments were typed out. In my mind I still often think in words comprised of my own abbreviations as well as the regular ‘Grade 2’. It’s like so much of what we learned as primary (or secondary) school braille readers, is quite arbitrary after all.

So, adults and new braille learners had a hard time figuring out why some practices were in – but others were out.

From: Walt Smith <mailto:ka3lists@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 11:55 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille Jim -

I think you're like almost every braille user I ever knew -- you've got your own shorthand which, if you ever shared it with another person, would probably seem to be Greek. <g> When I look back on some of my grad school notes today, even *I* don't have any idea what I was talking about!

________________________________

From: Jim Wohlgamuth [mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:56 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille


I certainly do understand that, but when I am taking notes and I write the sentense
'I like that.' it is much quicker to use braille contractions. But I guess if you are writing notes for your own consumption it really doesn't matter what you use as long as you can understand them<SMILE!>. THANKS & Have A Great Day! de
<KF8LT><Jim>.


Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Pamela Dominguez
 

Yes, that’s typing a message.  But it seemed to me that the person was talking about blind people typing everything in all caps, whether it’s documents, messages or what.  And whether it was on a computer or a typewriter.  Pam.
 

From: Pat Seed
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
 
Hi Everyone,
Actually, typing a message in all caps generally means that a person is shouting.
Blessings and All the Very Best,
Pat
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
 
Wow!  I would have never dreamed of typing anything in all caps.  I can’t imagine why anybody would do that.  I mean, even regular old American braille tells you the difference between capitalized letters and regular ones.  Pam.
 
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
 

I would agree with Walter. Believing that font and formatting are useless is completely wrong. I can understand how italicizing or bolding text or margin this or that may seem pointless and tedious to folks who may not have a point of reference due to lifelong blindness or vision loss from a very young age for example, that and the fact that it doesn’t really translate to Braille, but if you disregard those things that may seem pointless and insignificant, then you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage in any professional setting or setting in general outside of a visually impaired or familial circle.

I’ve known blind people who believe in typing all in caps because all that pesky upper case and lower case stuff seems pointless and hard to keep track of. Good luck with that if you ever have to write someone outside of a screen reader setting or family member who is going to misguidedly let it pass because they don’t want to bother or embarrass you.

The same way I wouldn’t want to walk out to a business or personal engagement wearing white socks while wearing a suit or something with a big fat catchup stain on my shirt or mismatch shoes and not have anyone tell me about it. Chocking it up to “Well, he’s blind. He doesn’t’ know. Poor guy...”. The same goes for the written expression. I always tell my sighted wife. If you see me walking out the door with a super loud green shirt with yellow pants one brown and black shoe on each foot and toilet paper stuck to my heel. Please, stop me. My feelings won’t be hurt. I would be very embarrassed if I sent off an important correspondence for a business proposal or communication to one of my contractor’s or potential clients with all sorts of fonts and colors and formatting.

 

It may mean more work on our end to make sure things are presented correctly or sift through them with a display, but thank goodness we now have tools to accomplish these tasks more time consuming though they may be.

From: Walt Smith [mailto:ka3lists@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 5:13 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

 

Your example of bold print is simply not correct. Boldface is used for *emphasis*, not merely "to catch the eye." I don't know whether you make much use of Microsoft Word or any similar word processing program, but headings, for example, are each printed in their own combination of upper/lowercase and point size and this serves a very specific purpose to the reader. As I said, braille *should* replicate normal print to as great a degree as possible in order to provide blind persons with the maximum literacy possible and simply assuming that things like typeface, bolding, underlining, etc., aren't important to blind persons is, in my opinion, patronizing and gratuitously making unwarranted assumptions about what may or may not be important to any individual. Yes, this is a problem for those of us who learned braille back when the dots were carved on stone tablets, but it's always better to look to the future than to hang onto the past simply because it is the past.

 

If blind kids are ever going to be truly literate, they'd better back off using audio and learn braille -- just take a look at the occasional message on one of the blind-oriented lists -- no punctuation, no capitalization, poor spelling -- and all because the writer never learned braille. If you don't think that this low degree of literacy casts a negative opinion of the person who composed the message, I'm afraid that's just not correct.

 


From: TerriLynne Pomeroy [mailto:tl1@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 6:14 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hi Joanne,

I think that the changes are radical. They have done away with many contractions such as the dots 3 and 6 for c o m. You will now see the word to and the word by written out and separate from the word that follows. The I n g sign, dots 3 4 and 6 has been changed to an I n sign, dots 3 and 5, followed by a g. The words and, of, for, the, and of are no longer written together, but have spaces between them. A dash is now a dot six followed by a hyphen, dots 3 and 6.

 

To me, one of the most confusing, and useless things that has been done is to indicate things such as bold faced print. In my own opinion, bold facing is done in the sighted community to make the printed words eye catching, but in braille, your eye isn’t caught.

 

There are many little changes. Generally, it doesn’t make the reading impossible, it just makes it slower, more space-wasting, and just plain cumbersome.

 

One of the big reasons given for the changes was to make back translation of braille work better. So, in other words, if you have a document on a braille notetaker and you want to print it, your computer will be able to print your document more accurately.

 

However, and I could be wrong here, but according to my observation, most young people use voice more than braille and are more likely to be writing using speech. It looks to me as though it is older adults who are the intense users of braille and who probably don’t do much printing from a notetaker to a print printer.

 

Just my thoughts,

 

TerriLynne

 

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Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Flor Lynch
 

Sounds like it was a beginner’s braille.
 

Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
I learned it about 14 years ago! Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Flor Lynch
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
 
The "the" symbor is indeed present in many instances of your name in Grade 2 UK Braille. How long ago did you learn it, and what grade or code of Braille?
 
 
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
Ah, did not know their was a scottish braille press!  I learned from studying abroad in England about the British braille code!  I tollerated it, it just seemed like they use more symbols than we did in our grade 2!  For example, their was no "t/h/e" sign and they used the "t/h and e/r," sign!  So for example my name would have the same 4 symbols but, their would not be a "t/h/e," sign in the middle of my name! ANd some of the dot five symbols are different! Heather
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
 
I used to get a couple of magazines published by the Scottish Braille Press
on the long narrow paper, and not only did they not have capitals, they had
those signs that they instituted now to divide lines of poetry instead of
actually starting them on the next line.  I also had an English pen pal, so
I knew about the no capitals.  Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:39 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hi all,

I used to get Braille books from RNIB in the 80s, and I remember
reading Watership Down and wondering how they managed without caps.
It was strainge to read .  Oh, it was legible, no question, but it was
odd to my fingers.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."






Re: Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Mike B <mb69mach1@...>
 

WLM does require scripts but, their just built into Jaws.  In answer to your question, just because!
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

 
Just curious.  Why do you prefer Outlook Express over Windows Live Mail, which is very similar and does not require scripts to work with JAWS?
 
Gerald
 
 
 
From: Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17
 
Hi Carlos,
 
Thank you very much for your reply.  Now J17 won't read messages unless I unload & reload Jaws for each message.  I also get the same messages when invoking the Insert + 0 or Insert + Q keystrokes.  & the OE default dictionary still isn't recognized.
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17
 
Hi Mike,
Go to the ENU folder, press Enter on
Outlook Express.JSS
to load it into the Script Manager, and then press Control S to recompile the script.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:49 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17
 
Hi All,
 
After installing Jaws 17, it does not read very well with Outlook Express.  It doesn't seem to be utilizing the scripts from Carlos I've put into the ENU folder & it also does not recognize the OE dictionary file i copied over from Jaws 16 into the Jaws 17 ENU folder.  I've had to relabel the Unread, collapsed, & Expanded graphics but, Jaws doesn't speak collapsed / expanded when using the right & left arrow keys to collapse or expand.  Jaws 17 also doesn't announce, message deleted, when deleting a message.  When I press, Insert + Q, Jaws reports, default settings are loaded, the application currently being used is MSOE DLL.  When I press, Insert + 0, I get 2 different windows, JAWS Script Manager - [msimn.JSS] or,
[JAWS Script Manager - MSOE.JSS]
 
Does the information I get using the Insert + Q & Insert + 0 keystrokes sound correct?  How can I get J17 to recognize the OE JDF file from J16?  Are scripts supposed to be installed into J17 differently than prior versions?  Since I created new graphic labels shouldn't there be an OE JGF file in the ENU folder?
 
All help & input will be greatly appreciated & graciously accepted.  Thanks much.
 
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!


pop settings for charter

Kimsan
 

I lost the instructions for the pop settings for charter email, can someone send them, if one has them?

Thank you.

 

SuccessfulImpact.com

 

www.Successfulimpact.com

 


VictorReaderStream2ndGen

Smiling?
 

I've personally have not done any business with this individual, but seeing as there seems to be a few of you  looking… I thought it was worthy of forwarding/posting.

 

This is an email that was sent to the Victor list back at the first of September, but you might want to check and see if the deal still stands regardless. The contact information is below. $319 shipping included.

 

Karl Smith <karl@...>

Sent:     Tuesday, September 01, 2015 7:13 PM

To:          vrstream@...

 

I have Victor Streams available right now for $319.00 including shipping in

the US. They are updated and ready to go.

 

Karl

 

 

__________

 

Karl Smith, Access Technology Consultant Axis

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Taylorsville, Utah 84129

 

Phone: 866-824-7885

Fax:     866-824-7885

E-mail: karl@...

Alternate E-mail: karl.axistech@...

 

Twitter http://twitter.com/axistech

 

My blog http://www.samobile.net/users/oksaxis/blog/


Re: serch engines question

Carlos
 


The state of that setting is saved in a cookie.  Are you using any applications like CCleaner which delete cookies?  If so, you should add Google to the exceptions list.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

How do you get ridd of that google instant message!  I am tired of it saying screenreaders click here to get ridd of google instant!  I want to be ridd of it and not have tell me I have to click on it ever time I use google search!
Thanks, Heather
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

Hi Gene and All!
I have been using the standard google search page for years with little or no trouble at all.  Not certain of what problems others may be experiencing with google search but I use it numerous times per week and even per day both with Google Chrome as well as the latest version of I.E. All ralevent information shows up or at least what I consider to be relevant anyhow.   I would be interested in knowing what types of problems folks are having?  Have A Great Day! de
<KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 01-Nov-15 10:33, Gene wrote:
I don't know what accountsfor what you are seeing but you should see text excerpts of the page in results.  Also, 72 results per page is not the standard setting.  The default setting on the main google site is 10.  And it would be interesting to know, though there is no way to do so now, what links or features may not have been offered on the accessibility page.  Any time there is something special dealing with internet accessibility done for blind people, the question should be asked, what, if anything is being given up.  For example, on the main Google page, if you look up a person in the news or something else that is being actively followed in the news, a google link says news for and then the item.  Following that link is avaluable way to see news stories related to the topic.  If the accessibility page didn't provide that, then blind users were being short changed.  I'm not assuming that the accessibility page had less features.  I'm saying that the question of what may be lost to blind users on special accessibility pages of any kind should be kept in mind.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith S
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

when I would access the accessibility page, WE only announched 7 links.  when I pull up google.com there are 71.  yes, I can use the H key to jump through headers to the meat of the results, but the first couple are advertisements.  just a lot of clutter and it's not as stream lined as the accessibility site that is now defunct.  In my humuble opinion.
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

The accessibility project had nothing to do with making Google more accessible.  It's purpose was to present results with the more accessible sites first in the results and the less accessible sites later.  This was a bad idea at the time and it still is.  Most sites are useable, even if some are not properly accessible.  If blind people are to get different performance from something, that requires a really strong case to be made. 
 
It was never made, in my strong opinion, for this experimental page.  Sighted people see results in terms of the popularity of the page.  Blind people should have the same information in the same order. 
 
Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

Hi Keith,

You don’t say which screen reader you are using. I use JAWS. With JAWS, I only have to hit h twice on the google results page to get to the search results. I have pasted below my name the first three results that came up for me when I searched for the word braille. These results do have some description after them. I always get suchdescriptions. Are you saying that your results in the accessibility lab had more information after the link?

TerriLynne


Braille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille

o    Cached

Wikipedia

Loading...

Braille /ˈbreɪl/ is a tactile writing system used by people who are blind and low vision. It is traditionally written with embossed paper. Braille-users can read ...

Languages‎: ‎Several

Sister systems‎: ‎New York Point

Parent systems‎: ‎Night writing: Early brai...

Creator‎: ‎Louis Braille

Braille: Deciphering the Code

braillebug.afb.org/braille_decipherin...

o    Similar

American Foundation for the Blind

Loading...

People often think that braille is a language. Actually there is a braille code for every foreign language you can imagine including French, Spanish, Chinese, ...

What Is Braille? - American Foundation for the Blind

www.afb.org › .... › Braille

American Foundation for the Blind

Loading...

Braille is a system of raised dots that can be read with the fingers by people who are blind or who have low vision. Teachers, parents, and others who are not ...

From: Keith S [mailto:ks.steinbach03@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 11:34 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] serch engines question

Hello, since losing my sight, I have used the google accessible website to do web searches:

But now, after entering a search string, and hitting enter, I get a error page.

When I have used the to check if the web site is down, (can't remember what the URL for that one is, it says that the sight is up and running fine, but indicates that it is the www.google.com site, not the accessible one.

Does anyone else use a search engine that is not as cluttered as yahoo or google, like the accessible google search site as posted above?  I also liked the fact that the accessible site gave a detracted synopsis of what the page contained instead of just the webpage name and the URL underneath like the google.com homepage.

Thanks for any help.

Keith



Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

heather albright
 

I learned it about 14 years ago! Heather

----- Original Message -----
From: Flor Lynch
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

The "the" symbor is indeed present in many instances of your name in Grade 2 UK Braille. How long ago did you learn it, and what grade or code of Braille?
 
 
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
Ah, did not know their was a scottish braille press!  I learned from studying abroad in England about the British braille code!  I tollerated it, it just seemed like they use more symbols than we did in our grade 2!  For example, their was no "t/h/e" sign and they used the "t/h and e/r," sign!  So for example my name would have the same 4 symbols but, their would not be a "t/h/e," sign in the middle of my name! ANd some of the dot five symbols are different! Heather
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
 
I used to get a couple of magazines published by the Scottish Braille Press
on the long narrow paper, and not only did they not have capitals, they had
those signs that they instituted now to divide lines of poetry instead of
actually starting them on the next line.  I also had an English pen pal, so
I knew about the no capitals.  Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:39 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hi all,

I used to get Braille books from RNIB in the 80s, and I remember
reading Watership Down and wondering how they managed without caps.
It was strainge to read .  Oh, it was legible, no question, but it was
odd to my fingers.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."






Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Flor Lynch
 

The "the" symbor is indeed present in many instances of your name in Grade 2 UK Braille. How long ago did you learn it, and what grade or code of Braille?
 
 

Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
Ah, did not know their was a scottish braille press!  I learned from studying abroad in England about the British braille code!  I tollerated it, it just seemed like they use more symbols than we did in our grade 2!  For example, their was no "t/h/e" sign and they used the "t/h and e/r," sign!  So for example my name would have the same 4 symbols but, their would not be a "t/h/e," sign in the middle of my name! ANd some of the dot five symbols are different! Heather
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
 
I used to get a couple of magazines published by the Scottish Braille Press
on the long narrow paper, and not only did they not have capitals, they had
those signs that they instituted now to divide lines of poetry instead of
actually starting them on the next line.  I also had an English pen pal, so
I knew about the no capitals.  Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:39 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hi all,

I used to get Braille books from RNIB in the 80s, and I remember
reading Watership Down and wondering how they managed without caps.
It was strainge to read .  Oh, it was legible, no question, but it was
odd to my fingers.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."






Re: Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Gerald Levy
 

 
Just curious.  Why do you prefer Outlook Express over Windows Live Mail, which is very similar and does not require scripts to work with JAWS?
 
Gerald
 
 
 

From: Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17
 
Hi Carlos,
 
Thank you very much for your reply.  Now J17 won't read messages unless I unload & reload Jaws for each message.  I also get the same messages when invoking the Insert + 0 or Insert + Q keystrokes.  & the OE default dictionary still isn't recognized.
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17
 
Hi Mike,
Go to the ENU folder, press Enter on
Outlook Express.JSS
to load it into the Script Manager, and then press Control S to recompile the script.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:49 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17
 
Hi All,
 
After installing Jaws 17, it does not read very well with Outlook Express.  It doesn't seem to be utilizing the scripts from Carlos I've put into the ENU folder & it also does not recognize the OE dictionary file i copied over from Jaws 16 into the Jaws 17 ENU folder.  I've had to relabel the Unread, collapsed, & Expanded graphics but, Jaws doesn't speak collapsed / expanded when using the right & left arrow keys to collapse or expand.  Jaws 17 also doesn't announce, message deleted, when deleting a message.  When I press, Insert + Q, Jaws reports, default settings are loaded, the application currently being used is MSOE DLL.  When I press, Insert + 0, I get 2 different windows, JAWS Script Manager - [msimn.JSS] or,
[JAWS Script Manager - MSOE.JSS]
 
Does the information I get using the Insert + Q & Insert + 0 keystrokes sound correct?  How can I get J17 to recognize the OE JDF file from J16?  Are scripts supposed to be installed into J17 differently than prior versions?  Since I created new graphic labels shouldn't there be an OE JGF file in the ENU folder?
 
All help & input will be greatly appreciated & graciously accepted.  Thanks much.
 
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!


Re: Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Carlos
 

Hmm, I'm not sure then.  Sounds like some incompatibility between the Outlook Express scripts and JAWS 17.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Hi Carlos,
 
Thank you very much for your reply.  Now J17 won't read messages unless I unload & reload Jaws for each message.  I also get the same messages when invoking the Insert + 0 or Insert + Q keystrokes.  & the OE default dictionary still isn't recognized.
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Hi Mike,
Go to the ENU folder, press Enter on
Outlook Express.JSS
to load it into the Script Manager, and then press Control S to recompile the script.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:49 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Hi All,
 
After installing Jaws 17, it does not read very well with Outlook Express.  It doesn't seem to be utilizing the scripts from Carlos I've put into the ENU folder & it also does not recognize the OE dictionary file i copied over from Jaws 16 into the Jaws 17 ENU folder.  I've had to relabel the Unread, collapsed, & Expanded graphics but, Jaws doesn't speak collapsed / expanded when using the right & left arrow keys to collapse or expand.  Jaws 17 also doesn't announce, message deleted, when deleting a message.  When I press, Insert + Q, Jaws reports, default settings are loaded, the application currently being used is MSOE DLL.  When I press, Insert + 0, I get 2 different windows, JAWS Script Manager - [msimn.JSS] or,
[JAWS Script Manager - MSOE.JSS]
 
Does the information I get using the Insert + Q & Insert + 0 keystrokes sound correct?  How can I get J17 to recognize the OE JDF file from J16?  Are scripts supposed to be installed into J17 differently than prior versions?  Since I created new graphic labels shouldn't there be an OE JGF file in the ENU folder?
 
All help & input will be greatly appreciated & graciously accepted.  Thanks much.
 
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!


Re: serch engines question

heather albright
 


How do you get ridd of that google instant message!  I am tired of it saying screenreaders click here to get ridd of google instant!  I want to be ridd of it and not have tell me I have to click on it ever time I use google search!
Thanks, Heather

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

Hi Gene and All!
I have been using the standard google search page for years with little or no trouble at all.  Not certain of what problems others may be experiencing with google search but I use it numerous times per week and even per day both with Google Chrome as well as the latest version of I.E. All ralevent information shows up or at least what I consider to be relevant anyhow.   I would be interested in knowing what types of problems folks are having?  Have A Great Day! de
<KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 01-Nov-15 10:33, Gene wrote:
I don't know what accountsfor what you are seeing but you should see text excerpts of the page in results.  Also, 72 results per page is not the standard setting.  The default setting on the main google site is 10.  And it would be interesting to know, though there is no way to do so now, what links or features may not have been offered on the accessibility page.  Any time there is something special dealing with internet accessibility done for blind people, the question should be asked, what, if anything is being given up.  For example, on the main Google page, if you look up a person in the news or something else that is being actively followed in the news, a google link says news for and then the item.  Following that link is avaluable way to see news stories related to the topic.  If the accessibility page didn't provide that, then blind users were being short changed.  I'm not assuming that the accessibility page had less features.  I'm saying that the question of what may be lost to blind users on special accessibility pages of any kind should be kept in mind.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith S
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

when I would access the accessibility page, WE only announched 7 links.  when I pull up google.com there are 71.  yes, I can use the H key to jump through headers to the meat of the results, but the first couple are advertisements.  just a lot of clutter and it's not as stream lined as the accessibility site that is now defunct.  In my humuble opinion.
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

The accessibility project had nothing to do with making Google more accessible.  It's purpose was to present results with the more accessible sites first in the results and the less accessible sites later.  This was a bad idea at the time and it still is.  Most sites are useable, even if some are not properly accessible.  If blind people are to get different performance from something, that requires a really strong case to be made. 
 
It was never made, in my strong opinion, for this experimental page.  Sighted people see results in terms of the popularity of the page.  Blind people should have the same information in the same order. 
 
Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] serch engines question

Hi Keith,

You don’t say which screen reader you are using. I use JAWS. With JAWS, I only have to hit h twice on the google results page to get to the search results. I have pasted below my name the first three results that came up for me when I searched for the word braille. These results do have some description after them. I always get suchdescriptions. Are you saying that your results in the accessibility lab had more information after the link?

TerriLynne


Braille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille

o    Cached

Wikipedia

Loading...

Braille /ˈbreɪl/ is a tactile writing system used by people who are blind and low vision. It is traditionally written with embossed paper. Braille-users can read ...

Languages‎: ‎Several

Sister systems‎: ‎New York Point

Parent systems‎: ‎Night writing: Early brai...

Creator‎: ‎Louis Braille

Braille: Deciphering the Code

braillebug.afb.org/braille_decipherin...

o    Similar

American Foundation for the Blind

Loading...

People often think that braille is a language. Actually there is a braille code for every foreign language you can imagine including French, Spanish, Chinese, ...

What Is Braille? - American Foundation for the Blind

www.afb.org › .... › Braille

American Foundation for the Blind

Loading...

Braille is a system of raised dots that can be read with the fingers by people who are blind or who have low vision. Teachers, parents, and others who are not ...

From: Keith S [mailto:ks.steinbach03@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 11:34 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] serch engines question

Hello, since losing my sight, I have used the google accessible website to do web searches:

But now, after entering a search string, and hitting enter, I get a error page.

When I have used the to check if the web site is down, (can't remember what the URL for that one is, it says that the sight is up and running fine, but indicates that it is the www.google.com site, not the accessible one.

Does anyone else use a search engine that is not as cluttered as yahoo or google, like the accessible google search site as posted above?  I also liked the fact that the accessible site gave a detracted synopsis of what the page contained instead of just the webpage name and the URL underneath like the google.com homepage.

Thanks for any help.

Keith



Re: Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Mike B <mb69mach1@...>
 

Hi Carlos,
 
Thank you very much for your reply.  Now J17 won't read messages unless I unload & reload Jaws for each message.  I also get the same messages when invoking the Insert + 0 or Insert + Q keystrokes.  & the OE default dictionary still isn't recognized.
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Hi Mike,
Go to the ENU folder, press Enter on
Outlook Express.JSS
to load it into the Script Manager, and then press Control S to recompile the script.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:49 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Windows 7, Outlook Express, & Jaws 17

Hi All,
 
After installing Jaws 17, it does not read very well with Outlook Express.  It doesn't seem to be utilizing the scripts from Carlos I've put into the ENU folder & it also does not recognize the OE dictionary file i copied over from Jaws 16 into the Jaws 17 ENU folder.  I've had to relabel the Unread, collapsed, & Expanded graphics but, Jaws doesn't speak collapsed / expanded when using the right & left arrow keys to collapse or expand.  Jaws 17 also doesn't announce, message deleted, when deleting a message.  When I press, Insert + Q, Jaws reports, default settings are loaded, the application currently being used is MSOE DLL.  When I press, Insert + 0, I get 2 different windows, JAWS Script Manager - [msimn.JSS] or,
[JAWS Script Manager - MSOE.JSS]
 
Does the information I get using the Insert + Q & Insert + 0 keystrokes sound correct?  How can I get J17 to recognize the OE JDF file from J16?  Are scripts supposed to be installed into J17 differently than prior versions?  Since I created new graphic labels shouldn't there be an OE JGF file in the ENU folder?
 
All help & input will be greatly appreciated & graciously accepted.  Thanks much.
 
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!


Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

heather albright
 

Ah, did not know their was a scottish braille press!  I learned from studying abroad in England about the British braille code!  I tollerated it, it just seemed like they use more symbols than we did in our grade 2!  For example, their was no "t/h/e" sign and they used the "t/h and e/r," sign!  So for example my name would have the same 4 symbols but, their would not be a "t/h/e," sign in the middle of my name! ANd some of the dot five symbols are different! Heather

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

I used to get a couple of magazines published by the Scottish Braille Press
on the long narrow paper, and not only did they not have capitals, they had
those signs that they instituted now to divide lines of poetry instead of
actually starting them on the next line.  I also had an English pen pal, so
I knew about the no capitals.  Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:39 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hi all,

I used to get Braille books from RNIB in the 80s, and I remember
reading Watership Down and wondering how they managed without caps.
It was strainge to read .  Oh, it was legible, no question, but it was
odd to my fingers.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."






Re: strange request

Mike B <mb69mach1@...>
 

Hi Kimsan,
 
Try 1 of the below:
 
 
 
 
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!

----- Original Message -----
From: Kimsan
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] strange request

That is the posting address.

I believe I unsubscribed from my charter email but I'm not sure if I am
unsubscribed or not as I did not get no confirmation email that I
unsubscribed.
I'm trying to subscribe using this email, kimsansong@....


SuccessfulImpact.com

www.Successfulimpact.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Carolyn Arnold [mailto:4carolyna@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 5:51 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] strange request

Try this:

jfw@...

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: Kimsan [mailto:kimsansong@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 4:14 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] strange request

Hi guys:

Does anyone have a subscription page or email address to the admin for the
jfw mailing list?

I am aware there are several jaws mailing list but I'm looking for
jfw-@... <mailto:jfw-@...>  I think the address was?

I had a buddy who is also on this list send me so many different addresses
related to the mailing list but I have yet to get any responses.

Even when I attempt to subscribe, I don't even get an email to confirm my
confirmation.

Thanks.

 

SuccessfulImpact.com

 

www.Successfulimpact.com

 









Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Pamela Dominguez
 

I used to get a couple of magazines published by the Scottish Braille Press on the long narrow paper, and not only did they not have capitals, they had those signs that they instituted now to divide lines of poetry instead of actually starting them on the next line. I also had an English pen pal, so I knew about the no capitals. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:39 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hi all,

I used to get Braille books from RNIB in the 80s, and I remember
reading Watership Down and wondering how they managed without caps.
It was strainge to read . Oh, it was legible, no question, but it was
odd to my fingers.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@samobile.net
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Pamela Dominguez
 

I find, though, that screenreaders hava a lot of problems when they come across all that marking. They say all that garbage in with the text and you can't understand what you are reading, because they don't even know how to do it correctly. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 7:37 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hi all,

Having the attribute signs and the format indecators in UEB brings
people who are blind into the 21st century. I hate to tell you this,
folks, but if you don't learn about formatting and you allow yourself
to write professional material without formatting, you will be
considered to be a child or someone with intellectual challenges. You
need to conform. With so many agencies and companies searching the web
to find references to their possible employees, a lack of knowledge
about attributes and formatting is simply a means toward not getting a
job, not getting an education and not improving yourself.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@samobile.net
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

Hello,
Ah, OK, thanks for the info.

----- Original Message -----
From: Flor Lynch <florlync@iol.ie>
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille



Caps indicate importance. (Or, if used inappropriately, 'shouting'.)


-----Original Message-----
From: rajmund
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 6:30 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hello,
Can caps not, though?

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Seed <patatips@tbaytel.net>
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille



Hi Everyone,
From what I know, the exclamation mark can also indicate surprise or joy
about something.
Blessings and All the Very Best,
Pat


----- Original Message -----
From: "rajmund" <brajmund2000@gmail.com>
To: <TechTalk@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille


Hello,
I thought that that was the exclamation mark?

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Seed <patatips@tbaytel.net>
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille



Hi Everyone,
Actually, typing a message in all caps generally means that a person is
shouting.
Blessings and All the Very Best,
Pat


----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Dominguez
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille


Wow! I would have never dreamed of typing anything in all caps. I
can't
imagine why anybody would do that. I mean, even regular old American
braille tells you the difference between capitalized letters and
regular
ones. Pam.

From: Cristbal
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:30 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

I would agree with Walter. Believing that font and formatting are
useless
is completely wrong. I can understand how italicizing or bolding text
or
margin this or that may seem pointless and tedious to folks who may not
have a point of reference due to lifelong blindness or vision loss from
a
very young age for example, that and the fact that it doesn't really
translate to Braille, but if you disregard those things that may seem
pointless and insignificant, then you're putting yourself at a
disadvantage in any professional setting or setting in general outside
of
a visually impaired or familial circle.
I've known blind people who believe in typing all in caps because all
that pesky upper case and lower case stuff seems pointless and hard to
keep track of. Good luck with that if you ever have to write someone
outside of a screen reader setting or family member who is going to
misguidedly let it pass because they don't want to bother or embarrass
you.
The same way I wouldn't want to walk out to a business or personal
engagement wearing white socks while wearing a suit or something with a
big fat catchup stain on my shirt or mismatch shoes and not have anyone
tell me about it.. Chocking it up to "Well, he's blind. He doesn't'
know.
Poor guy...". The same goes for the written expression. I always tell
my
sighted wife. If you see me walking out the door with a super loud
green
shirt with yellow pants one brown and black shoe on each foot and
toilet
paper stuck to my heel. Please, stop me. My feelings won't be hurt. I
would be very embarrassed if I sent off an important correspondence for
a
business proposal or communication to one of my contractor's or
potential
clients with all sorts of fonts and colors and formatting.

It may mean more work on our end to make sure things are presented
correctly or sift through them with a display, but thank goodness we
now
have tools to accomplish these tasks more time consuming though they
may
be.
From: Walt Smith [mailto:ka3lists@tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 5:13 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Your example of bold print is simply not correct. Boldface is used for
*emphasis*, not merely "to catch the eye." I don't know whether you
make
much use of Microsoft Word or any similar word processing program, but
headings, for example, are each printed in their own combination of
upper/lowercase and point size and this serves a very specific purpose
to
the reader. As I said, braille *should* replicate normal print to as
great a degree as possible in order to provide blind persons with the
maximum literacy possible and simply assuming that things like
typeface,
bolding, underlining, etc., aren't important to blind persons is, in my
opinion, patronizing and gratuitously making unwarranted assumptions
about what may or may not be important to any individual. Yes, this is
a
problem for those of us who learned braille back when the dots were
carved on stone tablets, but it's always better to look to the future
than to hang onto the past simply because it is the past.

If blind kids are ever going to be truly literate, they'd better back
off
using audio and learn braille -- just take a look at the occasional
message on one of the blind-oriented lists -- no punctuation, no
capitalization, poor spelling -- and all because the writer never
learned
braille. If you don't think that this low degree of literacy casts a
negative opinion of the person who composed the message, I'm afraid
that's just not correct.




From: TerriLynne Pomeroy [mailto:tl1@ml1.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 6:14 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
Hi Joanne,
I think that the changes are radical. They have done away with many
contractions such as the dots 3 and 6 for c o m. You will now see the
word to and the word by written out and separate from the word that
follows. The I n g sign, dots 3 4 and 6 has been changed to an I n
sign,
dots 3 and 5, followed by a g. The words and, of, for, the, and of are
no
longer written together, but have spaces between them. A dash is now a
dot six followed by a hyphen, dots 3 and 6.

To me, one of the most confusing, and useless things that has been done
is to indicate things such as bold faced print. In my own opinion, bold
facing is done in the sighted community to make the printed words eye
catching, but in braille, your eye isn't caught.

There are many little changes. Generally, it doesn't make the reading
impossible, it just makes it slower, more space-wasting, and just plain
cumbersome.

One of the big reasons given for the changes was to make back
translation
of braille work better. So, in other words, if you have a document on a
braille notetaker and you want to print it, your computer will be able
to
print your document more accurately.

However, and I could be wrong here, but according to my observation,
most
young people use voice more than braille and are more likely to be
writing using speech. It looks to me as though it is older adults who
are
the intense users of braille and who probably don't do much printing
from
a notetaker to a print printer.

Just my thoughts,

TerriLynne

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3532 / Virus Database: 4447/10929 - Release Date:
11/01/15
Sent from a Braille Sense





-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3532 / Virus Database: 4447/10929 - Release Date:
11/01/15


Sent from a Braille Sense





Sent from a Braille Sense


Re: hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Flor Lynch
 

Caps indicate importance. (Or, if used inappropriately, 'shouting'.)

-----Original Message-----
From: rajmund
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 6:30 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Hello,
Can caps not, though?

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Seed <patatips@tbaytel.net>
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille



Hi Everyone,
From what I know, the exclamation mark can also indicate surprise or joy
about something.
Blessings and All the Very Best,
Pat


----- Original Message -----
From: "rajmund" <brajmund2000@gmail.com>
To: <TechTalk@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille


Hello,
I thought that that was the exclamation mark?

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Seed <patatips@tbaytel.net>
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille



Hi Everyone,
Actually, typing a message in all caps generally means that a person is
shouting.
Blessings and All the Very Best,
Pat


----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Dominguez
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille


Wow! I would have never dreamed of typing anything in all caps. I can't
imagine why anybody would do that. I mean, even regular old American
braille tells you the difference between capitalized letters and regular
ones. Pam.

From: Cristóbal
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:30 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

I would agree with Walter. Believing that font and formatting are useless
is completely wrong. I can understand how italicizing or bolding text or
margin this or that may seem pointless and tedious to folks who may not
have a point of reference due to lifelong blindness or vision loss from a
very young age for example, that and the fact that it doesn't really
translate to Braille, but if you disregard those things that may seem
pointless and insignificant, then you're putting yourself at a
disadvantage in any professional setting or setting in general outside of
a visually impaired or familial circle.
I've known blind people who believe in typing all in caps because all
that pesky upper case and lower case stuff seems pointless and hard to
keep track of. Good luck with that if you ever have to write someone
outside of a screen reader setting or family member who is going to
misguidedly let it pass because they don't want to bother or embarrass
you.
The same way I wouldn't want to walk out to a business or personal
engagement wearing white socks while wearing a suit or something with a
big fat catchup stain on my shirt or mismatch shoes and not have anyone
tell me about it.. Chocking it up to "Well, he's blind. He doesn't' know.
Poor guy...". The same goes for the written expression. I always tell my
sighted wife. If you see me walking out the door with a super loud green
shirt with yellow pants one brown and black shoe on each foot and toilet
paper stuck to my heel. Please, stop me. My feelings won't be hurt. I
would be very embarrassed if I sent off an important correspondence for a
business proposal or communication to one of my contractor's or potential
clients with all sorts of fonts and colors and formatting.

It may mean more work on our end to make sure things are presented
correctly or sift through them with a display, but thank goodness we now
have tools to accomplish these tasks more time consuming though they may
be.
From: Walt Smith [mailto:ka3lists@tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 5:13 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille

Your example of bold print is simply not correct. Boldface is used for
*emphasis*, not merely "to catch the eye." I don't know whether you make
much use of Microsoft Word or any similar word processing program, but
headings, for example, are each printed in their own combination of
upper/lowercase and point size and this serves a very specific purpose to
the reader. As I said, braille *should* replicate normal print to as
great a degree as possible in order to provide blind persons with the
maximum literacy possible and simply assuming that things like typeface,
bolding, underlining, etc., aren't important to blind persons is, in my
opinion, patronizing and gratuitously making unwarranted assumptions
about what may or may not be important to any individual. Yes, this is a
problem for those of us who learned braille back when the dots were
carved on stone tablets, but it's always better to look to the future
than to hang onto the past simply because it is the past.

If blind kids are ever going to be truly literate, they'd better back off
using audio and learn braille -- just take a look at the occasional
message on one of the blind-oriented lists -- no punctuation, no
capitalization, poor spelling -- and all because the writer never learned
braille. If you don't think that this low degree of literacy casts a
negative opinion of the person who composed the message, I'm afraid
that's just not correct.




From: TerriLynne Pomeroy [mailto:tl1@ml1.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 6:14 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] hope it's not off-topic/the new grade 2 Braille
Hi Joanne,
I think that the changes are radical. They have done away with many
contractions such as the dots 3 and 6 for c o m. You will now see the
word to and the word by written out and separate from the word that
follows. The I n g sign, dots 3 4 and 6 has been changed to an I n sign,
dots 3 and 5, followed by a g. The words and, of, for, the, and of are no
longer written together, but have spaces between them. A dash is now a
dot six followed by a hyphen, dots 3 and 6.

To me, one of the most confusing, and useless things that has been done
is to indicate things such as bold faced print. In my own opinion, bold
facing is done in the sighted community to make the printed words eye
catching, but in braille, your eye isn't caught.

There are many little changes. Generally, it doesn't make the reading
impossible, it just makes it slower, more space-wasting, and just plain
cumbersome.

One of the big reasons given for the changes was to make back translation
of braille work better. So, in other words, if you have a document on a
braille notetaker and you want to print it, your computer will be able to
print your document more accurately.

However, and I could be wrong here, but according to my observation, most
young people use voice more than braille and are more likely to be
writing using speech. It looks to me as though it is older adults who are
the intense users of braille and who probably don't do much printing from
a notetaker to a print printer.

Just my thoughts,

TerriLynne

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