Date   

Re: NVDA Group

Jaffar Sidek
 

It is finished.  the list has been formed and it is all finished like the Phoenix's ashes.  Cheers!

On 8/28/2019 8:08 PM, DJ wrote:
I have an important question. How much longer can we drag this dead horse down the road before there is nothing left to drag? We're just about down to bone now. Are we going to have to hash that out too? 

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 9:01 AM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

That is your choice of course, but the list continues to grow without your help.


On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 04:31 Ann Parsons <akp@...> wrote:
Morning all,

Well la-tee-dah!  I wouldn't join your list if you paid me!  Arrogant,
stuck-up, stand-offish, insular people can just be that way.  Soon,
there will only be one person on your list.  People who control others
by fear find that they are controlled by fear themselves.  People stay
at parties or on a list because they are having fun or because they get
good info and friendly treatment.  Intimidation never works well.

   Have a nice day.

Ann P.


Original message:
> Gene,

> You may not post on the NVDA list about another NVDA list. The decision
> has been made, it has been conveyed to you a couple of times, and now I
> am posting it publicly. The end.

> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:24 PM Gene <gsasner@...
> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:


> First, my understanding is that a moderator, when not acting as a
> moderator, is treated as any other member. If I'm wrong, list members
> who know more about such expectations may correct me. If you are
> correct, I wouldn't have accepted the moderator position in the first
> place because I think I serve people much better by being able to say
> what I want, within the bounds of civility and the list rules. And
> again, during the time I was moderator, not one message discussing this
> from you. So how could I even know there was a problem?
> As far as the look things up expectation is concerned, it is not a part
> of blind list culture. I've been on Blindtech since the late Nineties.
> Jonathan Mosen, the founder, had no such expectation. Oh well, I guess
> he was one of those blind people coddlers.
> None of the four or five owners since have had that expectation. No
> moderator has had it. Blind-l doesn't have it and never did. This list
> never did. The Blindteky list doesn't have it.
> I have a very different philosophy of how such a list should be run
> than you do. You may run yours however you want. But you are not
> serving your members by depriving them of information. Don't they have
> the right to decide if they want to belong to both, or just one,
> whether mine or yours? People should have the right, and that means
> have the information to make such decisions. How do you justify not
> allowing them to have it in the place where they would generally expect
> to be informed about it? Many may never know, or not for quite sometime
> about the new list because they won't be on other lists or venues where
> such information is disseminated. Please explain how depriving people
> of information benefits them.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 2:40 PM
> To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

> Hello,

> Your message was very long, and I am not going to address all your
> points here except to say that when an individual becomes moderator of
> a list, all messages that individual sends, whether while wearing a
> moderator hat or not, reflect on the leadership of the list. I would
> also say that there have been a variety of questions on a variety of
> topics which have been asked and discussed recently, but again, list
> members can decide for themselves what is and is not discussed on list.
> As for list conduct, looking things up and doing a bit of research is
> encouraged. This is true on most forums out there. Lists exist to help
> people, but telling people the answer is not always the same as helping
> people. The expectation is that people try to look things up, and
> provided steps for what they have tried and haven't tried. Lists are
> not one's personal Google, and they exist to help people, to teach and
> instruct people. The NVDA list is not a beginners to Internet usage
> list. Never has been. If there was such a list, and an NVDA user asked
> a question on how to use the Internet, then by all means, let's post a
> message to that individual letting them know of the resource that
> teaches them how to use the Internet. But when the topic of a new list
> is NVDA, and the existing list discusses NVDA, I don't find that
> posting a message to the existing list about the new list which
> discusses similar topics to be appropriate.

> Anyway, this is my last message on this topic. Should anyone have
> questions about the NVDA list, what is or is not allowed, or
> suggestions for the NVDA group, or if you feel that you have been
> wronged, please reach out to nvda+owner@nvda.groups.io
> <mailto:nvda%2Bowner@nvda.groups.io> or send me an email at my personal
> address, nimerjaber1@... <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>

> Thanks.

> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:39 AM Gene <gsasner@...
> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:


> This message is long but the message I am responding to requires a long
> response to discuss the issues raised properly. the message quoted
> below mine goes into a lot of completely irrelevant discussion which I
> will answer because it deals with my conduct and reputation. I shall
> also make as clear as I can that if anyone on this list has any
> comments about messages I send during discussion or list moderation, I
> encourage such comments. As list owner, I consider that to be a point
> that is important to emphasize.
> First, I don't know what the level of complaints was, but since I did
> almost no moderation of the list, they could not have generally been
> about my moderation style. the list continued to run as it had under
> Joseph and list members kept within those guidelines and rules and I
> almost never had to do anything to get people to follow them. There was
> not one communication to me from Niber all the time I moderated the
> list, something which I was asked to do, I didn't ask for, that there
> were problems. Why was I not notified? Why was nothing discussed? If
> there are legitimate problems, I can't be aware of them without
> possible problems being brought to my attention.
> Once in a great while, someone criticizes something I say or the way I
> say it on one of the lists I'm on. A little more often, still rare,
> someone may make a general complaint. To such general complaints, I
> respond to the person that when they see something specific they object
> to, they should let me know. I can't correct a general complaint, such
> as you are this or that way. I can consider specific examples, such as,
> it would have been better if you had phrased this better, or the way
> you stated this may bother some users, or other specific cases. there
> are times when people just disagree about a topic but I'm not talking
> about that.
> If anyone wants to comment on what I write to the list or on list
> moderation, they are free to write me directly or use the owner's
> address in the footers of every message. I almost never receive any
> comments but I respond to every one I receive. If I don't respond, it
> is because I haven't received it for some reason.
> I'm very serious about this. I state my opinions directly but civilly.
> I don't want anyone to be hesitant about discussing their objections to
> whatever they object to. I may agree, disagree, or take the comments
> under consideration but I will be civil and respectful in my responses.
> Regarding the NVDA situation, because a few list members misunderstood
> a message I sent to the list, they complained on list. I was informed
> that I was no longer moderator, no discussion, nothing and the list was
> simply informed that I was no longer moderator. I would not have
> accepted the position as moderator, which I was asked to do, had I
> known I would have been dismissed in such a way with just a formulaic
> message to the list that I was no longer moderator and thanking me.
> That sort of message makes it appear that I was being dismissed as a
> disciplinary action.
> I haven't discussed this with Nimer before. Nor did I complain on the
> NVDA list or anywhere else. I wasn't moderator for my ego. In the
> interests of peace on the list, I let the matter drop.
> I'm discussing it here because Nimer presented his account. It is
> completely irrelevant to whether a new list is desirable or whether the
> current list is discouraging of new and inexperienced members to ask questions.
> Now, back to what is relevant. Why I decided to start a new list and
> why I believe the current one discourages new and inexperienced members
> from asking questions.
> I intentionally didn't go into details about what led me to that
> conclusion in previous messages. I didn't think it was necessary. But I
> will now because after sseeing the below message, list members need to
> know that there is nothing personal in my decision. I'm not doing it to
> get back at anyone. My reasons will make clear that I am doing this
> because I believe the current list is not meeting the needs of new and
> inexperienced users well and that is the only reason. The reasons and
> examples will speak for themselves, though I will speak as well.
> If I thought I could have influenced how the current list is run, I
> wouldn't have started a new one. But there is no prospect of the list changing.
> What led me to this conclusion was the following:
> First, Nimer has mentioned in his message to this list, that he expects
> people to look up topics. By which he means in the archives or with an
> Internet search engine to find archived entries or other information
> about the topic. Anyone who has spent time on lists like this one,
> composed largely of blind members knows that a lot of blind people, for
> various reasons such as inadequate or poor training, are not good
> Internet users and are not comfortable looking things up. Yet under the
> new way of running the NVDA list, the moderator has repeatedly made it
> clear that there is an expectation that people look things up. That is
> a serious discouragement for people who are not good Internet users to
> ask questions. The list rules and guidelines also strongly state that
> this should be done as a guideline. People aren't disciplined when they
> don't do so, but disapproval of not doing so has been made abundantly clear.
> The moderator, when this or that person has complained, has said that
> people can teach anyone who wants to learn how to look up information
> and that he would do so or find someone to do so. He has also said that
> anyone taking my position is coddling blind people.
> there is a reason that blind list culture is as it is. Blind people do
> not join such lists to learn how to do searches. they join to get
> information and discuss problems. Repetition is expected in blind list
> culture. the moderator expects blind people to learn to do these things
> because they are expected among sighted people on lists. And I wonder
> how many lists do expect it. Lists of reasonable knowledgeable users
> may. I haven't been on enough lists of sighted users to discuss whether
> most such list expect this. But I've observed for more than a decade
> the problems many people have in using the Internet and I understand
> why blind list culture is as it is. Again, when people join such lists
> as the NVDA list, they have no expectation that they will be expected
> to meet such standards. They join to learn about NVDA, not to learn to
> search archives.
> And repetition, also strenuously objected to by the moderator and
> Nimer, is actually useful. It teaches new members of the list and those
> who may not follow it particularly carefully, information they might
> not know otherwise or they might know later. It may be really
> beneficial for them to see this information when common questions are
> asked repeatedly over time. And some people might not even be aware
> that what is being asked about exists and can be done.
> One more point. The old list may have been too permissive in allowing
> too much off topic discussion. Most of the excessive traffic some
> people complained about could have been eliminated by making more
> restrictive what was considered on topic posts, limiting them much more
> to NvDA and reasonably related subjects. Imposing the look it up and no
> repetition requirement isn't necessary and if that had been done, we
> wouldn't be having this discussion. I would not have started a new list.
> Regarding some off topic traffic, I believe it keeps a list interesting
> and engages people if some off topic discussion is allowed. Also, you
> don't use a screen-reader in a vacuum. You use it to access Windows and
> Windows programs. It is natural that questions about how to do this or
> that in a program will come up.
> Almost all list traffic on the NVDA list now is among experienced
> users. That can objectively be ascertained by anyone who follows the
> list for a number of days. That is objective evidence that the list is
> discouraging partisipation by new members. and remember, I started
> discussing this not on my own, I started discussing it because someone
> asked for a list for beginners and said that the current list uses too
> complicated terms and concepts for beginners. Seeing that caused me to
> decide to start a new list, something which I had been considering but
> not definitely decided on.
> and finally, I consider it a real disservice that I am not allowed to
> post an announcement about the new list on the current list. That list
> has over eighteen hundred members. Why shouldn't they be entitled to
> know about the new list? I do not encourage people to leave the old
> list, which is clear from what I said in other messages today. The goal
> is to serve NVDA users well. If you want to run the current list as you
> do, that is your right as list owner. But members deserve knowledge so
> they can make an informed decision about whether they want to join
> another list.
> The point is not to have lists compete. the point is to allow users
> information so they can make informed decisions.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 10:56 AM
> To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

> Hello Gene and list,

> I am the owner of that other list, the NVDA list which first existed on
> freelists and moved to groups.io <http://groups.io>. I wanted to take
> the time to address this list, to give my viewpoint on the other list.

> 1. The NVDA list has over a thousand members, all from different
> backgrounds, with different expertise levels, etc.
> 2. Over the past couple of years, the list has seen some changes in
> terms of leadership.
> 3. The list has also changed from Freelists to groups.io
> <http://groups.io>, as I've already mentioned.
> 4. During that time, the list has continued to grow.
> 5. During Joseph's tenure, I did not receive many complaints about his
> moderation style. The few complaints I did recieive were in regards to
> the list membership not wanting the list to turn into a democracy.
> Joseph left on his own, and still continues to be active in the NVDA
> community, and on the NVDA list.
> 6. I sought moderators for the NVDA list, and did not get many takers.
> I asked Gene to help, as he has been known to assist users on the NVDA
> list for a long time. Unfortunately, the number of complaints about
> Gene's communication style increased dramatically. Users were speaking
> of unsubscribing, although there wasn't a great number of users who
> did. Many new users were turned off by the way Gene provided
> information and engaged in arguments on the list.
> 7. Because the list is not a democracy and because of the problems, I
> asked Brian V to take the place of Gene as moderator. He was already
> known for his moderation style on the Windows 10 list. At this time, I
> also believed that it would be beneficial to attempt to reset the list
> culture on the NVDA list. Because I had a number of complaints, both on
> and off list, about the list traffic of such a large list, and indeed,
> some of the threads went on for many messages, with users not bothering
> to look up information or attempt to, with many of the same questions
> being asked sometimes multiple times a day. So, Brian and I embarked on
> resetting the list culture to be more condusive to learning about NVDA.
> We also realize that users have questions outside of the scope of NVDA,
> so we attempt to provide resources whenever possible, as well as a chat
> sublist where members can discuss any topic whatsoever.

> So, today, the purpose of the NVDA list is as it has always been,
> except that the topic of NVDA is a bit more strictly enforced than it
> has been in the past. We welcome new users, and urge new users to tell
> us that when asking questions. We welcome veteran users. We welcome
> questions about NVDA and its features, whether expert or not. If a
> topic is not on topic, that topic will likely be locked. If questions
> are advanced, a user will likely receive a message directing them to a
> more appropriate place to ask that question.

> While I have received some complaints about the direction of the list,
> they tend to be from only a couple of members, with Gene chief among
> them. I am, and always have been responsive to the list and its
> members, *all* of its members. If I recieve one or two complaints on an
> issue, I tend to dismiss those complaints, especially if those
> complaints come after a culture shift, because the new list is an
> adjustment for everyone. On the other hand, If I receive many
> complaints, I begin to think about what may be the cause, and what the
> solution may be.

> Having said all of this, any member is welcome to sign up for any list
> of their choosing. It is unfortunate that the NVDA community needs to
> be divided, that a few members feel that they cannot ask questions. If
> you choose to consider signing up for the NVDA list, and if you run
> into problems, you can, of course, email me, and I am willing to work
> with you in resolving the situation. Because the NVDA community on
> groups.io <http://groups.io> already has NVDA as its topic, I did say
> that advertising a list similar in scope is not allowed, and I stick by
> that. We will see how things shake out, how many members Gene's list
> gets, etc. Hopefully Gene's list becomes a great resource for many of
> you. And hopefully you consider joining, rejoining, or posting your
> NVDA-related questions to the existing NVDA list.

> Thanks.

> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 8:18 AM Gene <gsasner@...
> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:


> The circumstances are entirely different in this case. I knew there
> were other JFW lists and I said that before starting another one, it
> would be good to ask about what is available. I won't go into the
> details in this case but the point is that in recent months, the large
> NVDA list has, in muuy and others opinions, become discouraging of new
> or inexperienced members to ask questions. if you look at the responses
> of others to my statement that I was considering starting a new list,
> you will find until now, unanimous agreement that a new list is a good
> idea. You will also find a message from a former member of the other
> list giving reasons similar to mine that he left.
> Also, I think it is a good idea for people to be a member of both
> lists. The other list may have more information posted to it about
> topics like new training materials and activities of interest to the
> community. I don't know if people will join my list who are active in
> those areas.
> Also, I didn't just criticize someone for starting a new JAWS list. I
> said that before doing so, it would be a good idea to inquire about
> other lists to avoid duplication. I didn't say one shouldn't be
> started. It depends on if its purpose is different from already
> existing lists or if it is run differently in ways that some people may
> strongly prefer.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 9:39 AM
> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group



> Just what we need, another NVDA list. You were quick to criticize
> another person for starting a new JFW users list when one already
> existed, yet you are doing the exact same thing, creating a new list
> which would be largely redundant and cause confusion. What makes you
> think that your NVDA list would be any better than the one that has
> been around for many years?



> Gerald



> On 8/26/2019 8:59 AM, Gene wrote:


> To avoid list clutter, I won't respond to individual messages saying
> people will join. I'll thank those now in one message. The list needs a
> core of experienced members and I appreciate all who join.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Jaffar Sidek <mailto:jaffar.sidek10@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 2:38 AM
> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group


> Count me in too. I'll help all I can. Cheers!

> On 8/26/2019 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:


> Thank you.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Marcio via Groups.Io <mailto:marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 8:27 PM
> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group
> Gene,

> Count me in. I'm not the most expert on NVDA but not a newbie with
> things either :)

> Also, Brian Gaff (I think that's his name) probably will be interested
> on participating as well.

> Cheers,
> Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM> AKA Starboy


> Sent from a galaxy far, far away. --
> Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list
> <https://groups.io/g/thunderbird/> to help and be helped with all
> Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


> Gene wrote:


> I hope that if I set one up, it will attract enough knowledgeable users
> to answer beginners and less experienced users' questions well.
> Gene



> --

> Best,

> Nimer Jaber

> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.

> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!


> --

> Best,

> Nimer Jaber

> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.

> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!


> --

> Best,

> Nimer Jaber

> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.

> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!

>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."




Re: NVDA Group

DJ
 

I have an important question. How much longer can we drag this dead horse down the road before there is nothing left to drag? We're just about down to bone now. Are we going to have to hash that out too? 

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 9:01 AM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

That is your choice of course, but the list continues to grow without your help.


On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 04:31 Ann Parsons <akp@...> wrote:
Morning all,

Well la-tee-dah!  I wouldn't join your list if you paid me!  Arrogant,
stuck-up, stand-offish, insular people can just be that way.  Soon,
there will only be one person on your list.  People who control others
by fear find that they are controlled by fear themselves.  People stay
at parties or on a list because they are having fun or because they get
good info and friendly treatment.  Intimidation never works well.

   Have a nice day.

Ann P.


Original message:
> Gene,

> You may not post on the NVDA list about another NVDA list. The decision
> has been made, it has been conveyed to you a couple of times, and now I
> am posting it publicly. The end.

> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:24 PM Gene <gsasner@...
> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:


> First, my understanding is that a moderator, when not acting as a
> moderator, is treated as any other member. If I'm wrong, list members
> who know more about such expectations may correct me. If you are
> correct, I wouldn't have accepted the moderator position in the first
> place because I think I serve people much better by being able to say
> what I want, within the bounds of civility and the list rules. And
> again, during the time I was moderator, not one message discussing this
> from you. So how could I even know there was a problem?
> As far as the look things up expectation is concerned, it is not a part
> of blind list culture. I've been on Blindtech since the late Nineties.
> Jonathan Mosen, the founder, had no such expectation. Oh well, I guess
> he was one of those blind people coddlers.
> None of the four or five owners since have had that expectation. No
> moderator has had it. Blind-l doesn't have it and never did. This list
> never did. The Blindteky list doesn't have it.
> I have a very different philosophy of how such a list should be run
> than you do. You may run yours however you want. But you are not
> serving your members by depriving them of information. Don't they have
> the right to decide if they want to belong to both, or just one,
> whether mine or yours? People should have the right, and that means
> have the information to make such decisions. How do you justify not
> allowing them to have it in the place where they would generally expect
> to be informed about it? Many may never know, or not for quite sometime
> about the new list because they won't be on other lists or venues where
> such information is disseminated. Please explain how depriving people
> of information benefits them.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 2:40 PM
> To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

> Hello,

> Your message was very long, and I am not going to address all your
> points here except to say that when an individual becomes moderator of
> a list, all messages that individual sends, whether while wearing a
> moderator hat or not, reflect on the leadership of the list. I would
> also say that there have been a variety of questions on a variety of
> topics which have been asked and discussed recently, but again, list
> members can decide for themselves what is and is not discussed on list.
> As for list conduct, looking things up and doing a bit of research is
> encouraged. This is true on most forums out there. Lists exist to help
> people, but telling people the answer is not always the same as helping
> people. The expectation is that people try to look things up, and
> provided steps for what they have tried and haven't tried. Lists are
> not one's personal Google, and they exist to help people, to teach and
> instruct people. The NVDA list is not a beginners to Internet usage
> list. Never has been. If there was such a list, and an NVDA user asked
> a question on how to use the Internet, then by all means, let's post a
> message to that individual letting them know of the resource that
> teaches them how to use the Internet. But when the topic of a new list
> is NVDA, and the existing list discusses NVDA, I don't find that
> posting a message to the existing list about the new list which
> discusses similar topics to be appropriate.

> Anyway, this is my last message on this topic. Should anyone have
> questions about the NVDA list, what is or is not allowed, or
> suggestions for the NVDA group, or if you feel that you have been
> wronged, please reach out to nvda+owner@nvda.groups.io
> <mailto:nvda%2Bowner@nvda.groups.io> or send me an email at my personal
> address, nimerjaber1@... <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>

> Thanks.

> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:39 AM Gene <gsasner@...
> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:


> This message is long but the message I am responding to requires a long
> response to discuss the issues raised properly. the message quoted
> below mine goes into a lot of completely irrelevant discussion which I
> will answer because it deals with my conduct and reputation. I shall
> also make as clear as I can that if anyone on this list has any
> comments about messages I send during discussion or list moderation, I
> encourage such comments. As list owner, I consider that to be a point
> that is important to emphasize.
> First, I don't know what the level of complaints was, but since I did
> almost no moderation of the list, they could not have generally been
> about my moderation style. the list continued to run as it had under
> Joseph and list members kept within those guidelines and rules and I
> almost never had to do anything to get people to follow them. There was
> not one communication to me from Niber all the time I moderated the
> list, something which I was asked to do, I didn't ask for, that there
> were problems. Why was I not notified? Why was nothing discussed? If
> there are legitimate problems, I can't be aware of them without
> possible problems being brought to my attention.
> Once in a great while, someone criticizes something I say or the way I
> say it on one of the lists I'm on. A little more often, still rare,
> someone may make a general complaint. To such general complaints, I
> respond to the person that when they see something specific they object
> to, they should let me know. I can't correct a general complaint, such
> as you are this or that way. I can consider specific examples, such as,
> it would have been better if you had phrased this better, or the way
> you stated this may bother some users, or other specific cases. there
> are times when people just disagree about a topic but I'm not talking
> about that.
> If anyone wants to comment on what I write to the list or on list
> moderation, they are free to write me directly or use the owner's
> address in the footers of every message. I almost never receive any
> comments but I respond to every one I receive. If I don't respond, it
> is because I haven't received it for some reason.
> I'm very serious about this. I state my opinions directly but civilly.
> I don't want anyone to be hesitant about discussing their objections to
> whatever they object to. I may agree, disagree, or take the comments
> under consideration but I will be civil and respectful in my responses.
> Regarding the NVDA situation, because a few list members misunderstood
> a message I sent to the list, they complained on list. I was informed
> that I was no longer moderator, no discussion, nothing and the list was
> simply informed that I was no longer moderator. I would not have
> accepted the position as moderator, which I was asked to do, had I
> known I would have been dismissed in such a way with just a formulaic
> message to the list that I was no longer moderator and thanking me.
> That sort of message makes it appear that I was being dismissed as a
> disciplinary action.
> I haven't discussed this with Nimer before. Nor did I complain on the
> NVDA list or anywhere else. I wasn't moderator for my ego. In the
> interests of peace on the list, I let the matter drop.
> I'm discussing it here because Nimer presented his account. It is
> completely irrelevant to whether a new list is desirable or whether the
> current list is discouraging of new and inexperienced members to ask questions.
> Now, back to what is relevant. Why I decided to start a new list and
> why I believe the current one discourages new and inexperienced members
> from asking questions.
> I intentionally didn't go into details about what led me to that
> conclusion in previous messages. I didn't think it was necessary. But I
> will now because after sseeing the below message, list members need to
> know that there is nothing personal in my decision. I'm not doing it to
> get back at anyone. My reasons will make clear that I am doing this
> because I believe the current list is not meeting the needs of new and
> inexperienced users well and that is the only reason. The reasons and
> examples will speak for themselves, though I will speak as well.
> If I thought I could have influenced how the current list is run, I
> wouldn't have started a new one. But there is no prospect of the list changing.
> What led me to this conclusion was the following:
> First, Nimer has mentioned in his message to this list, that he expects
> people to look up topics. By which he means in the archives or with an
> Internet search engine to find archived entries or other information
> about the topic. Anyone who has spent time on lists like this one,
> composed largely of blind members knows that a lot of blind people, for
> various reasons such as inadequate or poor training, are not good
> Internet users and are not comfortable looking things up. Yet under the
> new way of running the NVDA list, the moderator has repeatedly made it
> clear that there is an expectation that people look things up. That is
> a serious discouragement for people who are not good Internet users to
> ask questions. The list rules and guidelines also strongly state that
> this should be done as a guideline. People aren't disciplined when they
> don't do so, but disapproval of not doing so has been made abundantly clear.
> The moderator, when this or that person has complained, has said that
> people can teach anyone who wants to learn how to look up information
> and that he would do so or find someone to do so. He has also said that
> anyone taking my position is coddling blind people.
> there is a reason that blind list culture is as it is. Blind people do
> not join such lists to learn how to do searches. they join to get
> information and discuss problems. Repetition is expected in blind list
> culture. the moderator expects blind people to learn to do these things
> because they are expected among sighted people on lists. And I wonder
> how many lists do expect it. Lists of reasonable knowledgeable users
> may. I haven't been on enough lists of sighted users to discuss whether
> most such list expect this. But I've observed for more than a decade
> the problems many people have in using the Internet and I understand
> why blind list culture is as it is. Again, when people join such lists
> as the NVDA list, they have no expectation that they will be expected
> to meet such standards. They join to learn about NVDA, not to learn to
> search archives.
> And repetition, also strenuously objected to by the moderator and
> Nimer, is actually useful. It teaches new members of the list and those
> who may not follow it particularly carefully, information they might
> not know otherwise or they might know later. It may be really
> beneficial for them to see this information when common questions are
> asked repeatedly over time. And some people might not even be aware
> that what is being asked about exists and can be done.
> One more point. The old list may have been too permissive in allowing
> too much off topic discussion. Most of the excessive traffic some
> people complained about could have been eliminated by making more
> restrictive what was considered on topic posts, limiting them much more
> to NvDA and reasonably related subjects. Imposing the look it up and no
> repetition requirement isn't necessary and if that had been done, we
> wouldn't be having this discussion. I would not have started a new list.
> Regarding some off topic traffic, I believe it keeps a list interesting
> and engages people if some off topic discussion is allowed. Also, you
> don't use a screen-reader in a vacuum. You use it to access Windows and
> Windows programs. It is natural that questions about how to do this or
> that in a program will come up.
> Almost all list traffic on the NVDA list now is among experienced
> users. That can objectively be ascertained by anyone who follows the
> list for a number of days. That is objective evidence that the list is
> discouraging partisipation by new members. and remember, I started
> discussing this not on my own, I started discussing it because someone
> asked for a list for beginners and said that the current list uses too
> complicated terms and concepts for beginners. Seeing that caused me to
> decide to start a new list, something which I had been considering but
> not definitely decided on.
> and finally, I consider it a real disservice that I am not allowed to
> post an announcement about the new list on the current list. That list
> has over eighteen hundred members. Why shouldn't they be entitled to
> know about the new list? I do not encourage people to leave the old
> list, which is clear from what I said in other messages today. The goal
> is to serve NVDA users well. If you want to run the current list as you
> do, that is your right as list owner. But members deserve knowledge so
> they can make an informed decision about whether they want to join
> another list.
> The point is not to have lists compete. the point is to allow users
> information so they can make informed decisions.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 10:56 AM
> To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

> Hello Gene and list,

> I am the owner of that other list, the NVDA list which first existed on
> freelists and moved to groups.io <http://groups.io>. I wanted to take
> the time to address this list, to give my viewpoint on the other list.

> 1. The NVDA list has over a thousand members, all from different
> backgrounds, with different expertise levels, etc.
> 2. Over the past couple of years, the list has seen some changes in
> terms of leadership.
> 3. The list has also changed from Freelists to groups.io
> <http://groups.io>, as I've already mentioned.
> 4. During that time, the list has continued to grow.
> 5. During Joseph's tenure, I did not receive many complaints about his
> moderation style. The few complaints I did recieive were in regards to
> the list membership not wanting the list to turn into a democracy.
> Joseph left on his own, and still continues to be active in the NVDA
> community, and on the NVDA list.
> 6. I sought moderators for the NVDA list, and did not get many takers.
> I asked Gene to help, as he has been known to assist users on the NVDA
> list for a long time. Unfortunately, the number of complaints about
> Gene's communication style increased dramatically. Users were speaking
> of unsubscribing, although there wasn't a great number of users who
> did. Many new users were turned off by the way Gene provided
> information and engaged in arguments on the list.
> 7. Because the list is not a democracy and because of the problems, I
> asked Brian V to take the place of Gene as moderator. He was already
> known for his moderation style on the Windows 10 list. At this time, I
> also believed that it would be beneficial to attempt to reset the list
> culture on the NVDA list. Because I had a number of complaints, both on
> and off list, about the list traffic of such a large list, and indeed,
> some of the threads went on for many messages, with users not bothering
> to look up information or attempt to, with many of the same questions
> being asked sometimes multiple times a day. So, Brian and I embarked on
> resetting the list culture to be more condusive to learning about NVDA.
> We also realize that users have questions outside of the scope of NVDA,
> so we attempt to provide resources whenever possible, as well as a chat
> sublist where members can discuss any topic whatsoever.

> So, today, the purpose of the NVDA list is as it has always been,
> except that the topic of NVDA is a bit more strictly enforced than it
> has been in the past. We welcome new users, and urge new users to tell
> us that when asking questions. We welcome veteran users. We welcome
> questions about NVDA and its features, whether expert or not. If a
> topic is not on topic, that topic will likely be locked. If questions
> are advanced, a user will likely receive a message directing them to a
> more appropriate place to ask that question.

> While I have received some complaints about the direction of the list,
> they tend to be from only a couple of members, with Gene chief among
> them. I am, and always have been responsive to the list and its
> members, *all* of its members. If I recieve one or two complaints on an
> issue, I tend to dismiss those complaints, especially if those
> complaints come after a culture shift, because the new list is an
> adjustment for everyone. On the other hand, If I receive many
> complaints, I begin to think about what may be the cause, and what the
> solution may be.

> Having said all of this, any member is welcome to sign up for any list
> of their choosing. It is unfortunate that the NVDA community needs to
> be divided, that a few members feel that they cannot ask questions. If
> you choose to consider signing up for the NVDA list, and if you run
> into problems, you can, of course, email me, and I am willing to work
> with you in resolving the situation. Because the NVDA community on
> groups.io <http://groups.io> already has NVDA as its topic, I did say
> that advertising a list similar in scope is not allowed, and I stick by
> that. We will see how things shake out, how many members Gene's list
> gets, etc. Hopefully Gene's list becomes a great resource for many of
> you. And hopefully you consider joining, rejoining, or posting your
> NVDA-related questions to the existing NVDA list.

> Thanks.

> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 8:18 AM Gene <gsasner@...
> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:


> The circumstances are entirely different in this case. I knew there
> were other JFW lists and I said that before starting another one, it
> would be good to ask about what is available. I won't go into the
> details in this case but the point is that in recent months, the large
> NVDA list has, in muuy and others opinions, become discouraging of new
> or inexperienced members to ask questions. if you look at the responses
> of others to my statement that I was considering starting a new list,
> you will find until now, unanimous agreement that a new list is a good
> idea. You will also find a message from a former member of the other
> list giving reasons similar to mine that he left.
> Also, I think it is a good idea for people to be a member of both
> lists. The other list may have more information posted to it about
> topics like new training materials and activities of interest to the
> community. I don't know if people will join my list who are active in
> those areas.
> Also, I didn't just criticize someone for starting a new JAWS list. I
> said that before doing so, it would be a good idea to inquire about
> other lists to avoid duplication. I didn't say one shouldn't be
> started. It depends on if its purpose is different from already
> existing lists or if it is run differently in ways that some people may
> strongly prefer.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 9:39 AM
> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group



> Just what we need, another NVDA list. You were quick to criticize
> another person for starting a new JFW users list when one already
> existed, yet you are doing the exact same thing, creating a new list
> which would be largely redundant and cause confusion. What makes you
> think that your NVDA list would be any better than the one that has
> been around for many years?



> Gerald



> On 8/26/2019 8:59 AM, Gene wrote:


> To avoid list clutter, I won't respond to individual messages saying
> people will join. I'll thank those now in one message. The list needs a
> core of experienced members and I appreciate all who join.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Jaffar Sidek <mailto:jaffar.sidek10@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 2:38 AM
> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group


> Count me in too. I'll help all I can. Cheers!

> On 8/26/2019 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:


> Thank you.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Marcio via Groups.Io <mailto:marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 8:27 PM
> To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group
> Gene,

> Count me in. I'm not the most expert on NVDA but not a newbie with
> things either :)

> Also, Brian Gaff (I think that's his name) probably will be interested
> on participating as well.

> Cheers,
> Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM> AKA Starboy


> Sent from a galaxy far, far away. --
> Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list
> <https://groups.io/g/thunderbird/> to help and be helped with all
> Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


> Gene wrote:


> I hope that if I set one up, it will attract enough knowledgeable users
> to answer beginners and less experienced users' questions well.
> Gene



> --

> Best,

> Nimer Jaber

> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.

> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!


> --

> Best,

> Nimer Jaber

> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.

> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!


> --

> Best,

> Nimer Jaber

> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.

> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!

>

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."




Re: IE and Duolingo

Gene
 

If this procedure doesn't work with your screen-reader, let me know.  I'll tell you the long way that should work.
 
When Chrome is opened, open settings by holding alt and typing f.
Now, use the b command to move by button.  After a number of times, you should get to a button that says make default.  Press the space bar.  You will get no confirmation other than the button will disappear and shift tabbing and tabbing will confirm if it has or not.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

I'll check and let you know either now or later today.  As a point of interest, once you make it the default browser, the make default button disappears, which may seem odd but that actually means you were successful.
 
Gene. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

Gene:


I have windows 7.

On 8/27/2019 3:14 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't have Windows 10.  If that is what you have, I expect someone will tell you.  If you have Windows 7, I can tell you.  I don't know if my instructions will work for Windows 8.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

Gene:


I have been using duolingo in chrome and it's working fine.  I actually forgot how to make it my browser.  I was thinking about downloading Firefox but not sure if that will read things better than chrome.  I only use IE because I like how it reads.  If I could find a browser similar, I would get rid of it.  If you wouldn't mind, could you give me directions on how to make chrome my browser?  Thank you.

On 8/27/2019 2:36 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know the answe to the question.  Someone may, but maybe the site has changed somehow so it is no longer compatible with Internet Explorer.  Over time, more and more sites won't work or won't work properly with Internet Explorer.
 
Why would you change the default browser?  Is there any reason not to use the site in Chrome and the default browser for other things?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:17 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

            Hi group:


I'm not sure who uses duolingo or if any of you do but I have a
question.  For the last week, whenever I open duolingo in internet
explorer, I keep getting page has no links.  I tried it in chrome and
have no problem.  Do you know why this would happen and what I can do to
have it work again?  I really don't want to make chrome my default
browser because I don't like how it reads some things. Thanks in advance
for any help you can give me on this matter.

Shelly




Re: Uk to US voltage converter

Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
 

Hello Walter:

Let's check on a few things before I throw out any suggestions. First, do
you know if the external drive you're sending to your friend support dual
voltage--that is 110V/115V (or even 120V), as well as 220V/240V?

Second question: Does it have a button you can either push in to change
voltagecycles, or a slider that can be easily moved from one position to the
next to achieve the same purpose?

A third question: Assuming the answer to question2 is NO, is the drive
capable of switching automatically between the two voltages?

Ok, I'll go put the insomniac to bed, bring him back to say more in the
morning or afternoon after having read your response. Somehow, we'll get
this sorted out, all the best and have a fun-filled day!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


Re: IE and Duolingo

Gene
 

I'll check and let you know either now or later today.  As a point of interest, once you make it the default browser, the make default button disappears, which may seem odd but that actually means you were successful.
 
Gene. 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

Gene:


I have windows 7.

On 8/27/2019 3:14 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't have Windows 10.  If that is what you have, I expect someone will tell you.  If you have Windows 7, I can tell you.  I don't know if my instructions will work for Windows 8.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

Gene:


I have been using duolingo in chrome and it's working fine.  I actually forgot how to make it my browser.  I was thinking about downloading Firefox but not sure if that will read things better than chrome.  I only use IE because I like how it reads.  If I could find a browser similar, I would get rid of it.  If you wouldn't mind, could you give me directions on how to make chrome my browser?  Thank you.

On 8/27/2019 2:36 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know the answe to the question.  Someone may, but maybe the site has changed somehow so it is no longer compatible with Internet Explorer.  Over time, more and more sites won't work or won't work properly with Internet Explorer.
 
Why would you change the default browser?  Is there any reason not to use the site in Chrome and the default browser for other things?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:17 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

            Hi group:


I'm not sure who uses duolingo or if any of you do but I have a
question.  For the last week, whenever I open duolingo in internet
explorer, I keep getting page has no links.  I tried it in chrome and
have no problem.  Do you know why this would happen and what I can do to
have it work again?  I really don't want to make chrome my default
browser because I don't like how it reads some things. Thanks in advance
for any help you can give me on this matter.

Shelly




Re: An important correction to the new NVDA list subscription information

 

Hi,
Lots of emails to read, but as I said, count me in :)
I'll be joining the list soon.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

Gene wrote:

I made a mistake when I gave the subscription address for the new list.  It is
I'm sorry for any confusion that may have been caused.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:16 PM
Subject: A new NVDA list

I have created a new NVDA help and discussion list.  The other NVDA group has changed its rules and guidelines recently and I don't believe it is an encouraging place for new and inexperienced users to post questions.  However, it would be a good idea to belong to both groups.  the other list is a low traffic list and it receives messages concerning new training materials and announcements about online events of interest to the NVDA community.  Also, the group is very large and you may get better help with technical problems.  My list may become as good in these areas as it grows but for now, it’s a good idea to belong to both.
 
To subscribe, send a blank e-mail to
 
Gene


Re: IE and Duolingo

Shelly Kane
 

Gene:


I have windows 7.

On 8/27/2019 3:14 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't have Windows 10.  If that is what you have, I expect someone will tell you.  If you have Windows 7, I can tell you.  I don't know if my instructions will work for Windows 8.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

Gene:


I have been using duolingo in chrome and it's working fine.  I actually forgot how to make it my browser.  I was thinking about downloading Firefox but not sure if that will read things better than chrome.  I only use IE because I like how it reads.  If I could find a browser similar, I would get rid of it.  If you wouldn't mind, could you give me directions on how to make chrome my browser?  Thank you.

On 8/27/2019 2:36 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know the answe to the question.  Someone may, but maybe the site has changed somehow so it is no longer compatible with Internet Explorer.  Over time, more and more sites won't work or won't work properly with Internet Explorer.
 
Why would you change the default browser?  Is there any reason not to use the site in Chrome and the default browser for other things?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:17 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] IE and Duolingo

            Hi group:


I'm not sure who uses duolingo or if any of you do but I have a
question.  For the last week, whenever I open duolingo in internet
explorer, I keep getting page has no links.  I tried it in chrome and
have no problem.  Do you know why this would happen and what I can do to
have it work again?  I really don't want to make chrome my default
browser because I don't like how it reads some things. Thanks in advance
for any help you can give me on this matter.

Shelly




Re: transferring money from pay pal to my bank

Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
 

Troy, a transfer from your Paypal account to your bank account is always
free. However, it would take a day or two for the transferred funds to hit
your bank account.

Now, could you process the transfer a bit quicker? yes, you can! It'll
cost you something. Such a transfer will occur virtually simultaneously.
Paypal will display the cost of Instant Transfer if you choose this option.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


Re: NVDA Group

Norma A. Boge
 

Ok, people, what Nimer has said in his very diplomatic way is our call to arms. We all are on other lists, social media, etc. So when Gene gets his NVA listserv up and ready for new subscribers, let’s put the word out everywhere. Somebody has to step up and support those new NVDA users whom nimer evidently considers to be inferior to him. Let it be us! Norma

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 11:10 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

 

Gene,

 

You may not post on the NVDA list about another NVDA list. The decision has been made, it has been conveyed to you a couple of times, and now I am posting it publicly. The end.

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:24 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

First, my understanding is that a moderator, when not acting as a moderator, is treated as any other member.  If I'm wrong, list members who know more about such expectations may correct me.  If you are correct, I wouldn't have accepted the moderator position in the first place because I think I serve people much better by being able to say what I want, within the bounds of civility and the list rules.  And again, during the time I was moderator, not one message discussing this from you.  So how could I even know there was a problem?

 

As far as the look things up expectation is concerned, it is not a part of blind list culture.  I've been on Blindtech since the late Nineties.  Jonathan Mosen, the founder, had no such expectation.  Oh well, I guess he was one of those blind people coddlers. 

 

None of the four or five owners since have had that expectation.  No moderator has had it.  Blind-l doesn't have it and never did.  This list never did.  The Blindteky list doesn't have it. 

 

I have a very different philosophy of how such a list should be run than you do.  You may run yours however you want.  But you are not serving your members by depriving them of information.  Don't they have the right to decide if they want to belong to both, or just one, whether mine or yours?  People should have the right, and that means have the information to make such decisions.  How do you justify not allowing them to have it in the place where they would generally expect to be informed about it?  Many may never know, or not for quite sometime about the new list because they won't be on other lists or venues where such information is disseminated.  Please explain how depriving people of information benefits them.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 2:40 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

 

Hello,

 

Your message was very long, and I am not going to address all your points here except to say that when an individual becomes moderator of a list, all messages that individual sends, whether while wearing a moderator hat or not, reflect on the leadership of the list. I would also say that there have been a variety of questions on a variety of topics which have been asked and discussed recently, but again, list members can decide for themselves what is and is not discussed on list. As for list conduct, looking things up and doing a bit of research is encouraged. This is true on most forums out there. Lists exist to help people, but telling people the answer is not always the same as helping people. The expectation is that people try to look things up, and provided steps for what they have tried and haven't tried. Lists are not one's personal Google, and they exist to help people, to teach and instruct people. The NVDA list is not a beginners to Internet usage list. Never has been. If there was such a list, and an NVDA user asked a question on how to use the Internet, then by all means, let's post a message to that individual letting them know of the resource that teaches them how to use the Internet. But when the topic of a new list is NVDA, and the existing list discusses NVDA, I don't find that posting a message to the existing list about the new list which discusses similar topics to be appropriate.

 

Anyway, this is my last message on this topic. Should anyone have questions about the NVDA list, what is or is not allowed, or suggestions for the NVDA group, or if you feel that you have been wronged, please reach out to nvda+owner@nvda.groups.io or send me an email at my personal address, nimerjaber1@...

 

Thanks.

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:39 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

This message is long but the message I am responding to requires a long response to discuss the issues raised properly.  the message quoted below mine goes into a lot of completely irrelevant discussion which I will answer because it deals with my conduct and reputation.  I shall also make as clear as I can that if anyone on this list has any comments about messages I send during discussion or list moderation, I encourage such comments.  As list owner, I consider that to be a point that is important to emphasize. 

 

First, I don't know what the level of complaints was, but since I did almost no moderation of the list, they could not have generally been about my moderation style.  the list continued to run as it had under Joseph and list members kept within those guidelines and rules and I almost never had to do anything to get people to follow them.  There was not one communication to me from Niber all the time I moderated the list, something which I was asked to do, I didn't ask for, that there were problems.  Why was I not notified?  Why was nothing discussed?  If there are legitimate problems, I can't be aware of them without possible problems being brought to my attention. 

 

Once in a great while, someone criticizes something I say or the way I say it on one of the lists I'm on.  A little more often, still rare, someone may make a general complaint.  To such general complaints, I respond to the person that when they see something specific they object to, they should let me know.  I can't correct a general complaint, such as you are this or that way.  I can consider specific examples, such as, it would have been better if you had phrased this better, or the way you stated this may bother some users, or other specific cases.  there are times when people just disagree about a topic but I'm not talking about that. 

 

If anyone wants to comment on what I write to the list or on list moderation, they are free to write me directly or use the owner's address in the footers of every message.  I almost never receive any comments but I respond to every one I receive.  If I don't respond, it is because I haven't received it for some reason.

 

I'm very serious about this.  I state my opinions directly but civilly.  I don't want anyone to be hesitant about discussing their objections to whatever they object to.  I may agree, disagree, or take the comments under consideration but I will be civil and respectful in my responses.

 

Regarding the NVDA situation, because a few list members misunderstood a message I sent to the list, they complained on list.  I was informed that I was no longer moderator, no discussion, nothing and the list was simply informed that I was no longer moderator.  I would not have accepted the position as moderator, which I was asked to do, had I known I would have been dismissed in such a way with just a formulaic message to the list that I was no longer moderator and thanking me.  That sort of message makes it appear that I was being dismissed as a disciplinary action. 

 

I haven't discussed this with Nimer before.  Nor did I complain on the NVDA list or anywhere else.  I wasn't moderator for my ego.  In the interests of peace on the list, I let the matter drop.

 

I'm  discussing it here because Nimer presented his account.  It is completely irrelevant to whether a new list is desirable or whether the current list is discouraging of new and inexperienced members to ask questions. 

Now, back to what is relevant.  Why I decided to start a new list and why I believe the current one discourages new and inexperienced members from asking questions.

 

I intentionally didn't go into details about what led me to that conclusion in previous messages.  I didn't think it was necessary.  But I will now because after sseeing the below message, list members need to know that there is nothing personal in my decision.  I'm not doing it to get back at anyone.  My reasons will make clear that I am doing this because I believe the current list is not meeting the needs of new and inexperienced users well and that is the only reason.  The reasons and examples will speak for themselves, though I will speak as well.

 

If I thought I could have influenced how the current list is run, I wouldn't have started a new one.  But there is no prospect of the list changing. 

 

What led me to this conclusion was the following:

 

First, Nimer has mentioned in his message to this list, that he expects people to look up topics.  By which he means in the archives or with an Internet search engine to find archived entries or other information about the topic.  Anyone who has spent time on lists like this one, composed largely of blind members knows that a lot of blind people, for various reasons such as inadequate or poor training, are not good Internet users and are not comfortable looking things up.  Yet under the new way of running the NVDA list, the moderator has repeatedly made it clear that there is an expectation that people look things up.  That is a serious discouragement for people who are not good Internet users to ask questions.  The list rules and guidelines also strongly state that this should be done as a guideline.  People aren't disciplined when they don't do so, but disapproval of not doing so has been made abundantly clear.

 

The moderator, when this or that person has complained, has said that people can teach anyone who wants to learn how to look up information and that he would do so or find someone to do so.  He has also said that anyone taking my position is coddling blind people. 

 

there is a reason that blind list culture is as it is.  Blind people do not join such lists to learn how to do searches.  they join to get information and discuss problems.  Repetition is expected in blind list culture.  the moderator expects blind people to learn to do these things because they are expected among sighted people on lists.  And I wonder how many lists do expect it.  Lists of reasonable knowledgeable users may.  I haven't been on enough lists of sighted users to discuss whether most such list expect this.  But I've observed for more than a decade the problems many people have in using the Internet and I understand why blind list culture is as it is.  Again, when people join such lists as the NVDA list, they have no expectation that they will be expected to meet such standards.  They join to learn about NVDA, not to learn to search archives.

 

And repetition, also strenuously objected to by the moderator and Nimer, is actually useful.  It teaches new members of the list and those who may not follow it particularly carefully, information they might not know otherwise or they might know later.  It may be really beneficial for them to see this information when common questions are asked repeatedly over time.  And some people might not even be aware that what is being asked about exists and can be done.

 

One more point.  The old list may have been too permissive in allowing too much off topic discussion.  Most of the excessive traffic some people complained about could have been eliminated by making more restrictive what was considered on topic posts, limiting them much more to NvDA and reasonably related subjects.  Imposing the look it up and no repetition requirement isn't necessary and if that had been done, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  I would not have started a new list. 

 

Regarding some off topic traffic, I believe it keeps a list interesting and engages people if some off topic discussion is allowed.  Also, you don't use a screen-reader in a vacuum.  You use it to access Windows and Windows programs.  It is natural that questions about how to do this or that in a program will come up. 

 

Almost all list traffic on the NVDA list now is among experienced users.  That can objectively be ascertained by anyone who follows the list for a number of days.  That is objective evidence that the list is discouraging partisipation by new members.  and remember, I started discussing this not on my own, I started discussing it because someone asked for a list for beginners and said that the current list uses too complicated terms and concepts for beginners.  Seeing that caused me to decide to start a new list, something which I had been considering but not definitely decided on.

 

and finally, I consider it a real disservice that I am not allowed to post an announcement about the new list on the current list.  That list has over eighteen hundred members.  Why shouldn't they be entitled to know about the new list?  I do not encourage people to leave the old list, which is clear from what I said in other messages today.  The goal is to serve NVDA users well.  If you want to run the current list as you do, that is your right as list owner.  But members deserve knowledge so they can make an informed decision about whether they want to join another list. 

 

The point is not to have lists compete.  the point is to allow users information so they can make informed decisions.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 10:56 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

 

Hello Gene and list,

 

I am the owner of that other list, the NVDA list which first existed on freelists and moved to groups.io. I wanted to take the time to address this list, to give my viewpoint on the other list.

 

1. The NVDA list has over a thousand members, all from different backgrounds, with different expertise levels, etc.

2. Over the past couple of years, the list has seen some changes in terms of leadership.

3. The list has also changed from Freelists to groups.io, as I've already mentioned.

4. During that time, the list has continued to grow.

5. During Joseph's tenure, I did not receive many complaints about his moderation style. The few complaints I did recieive were in regards to the list membership not wanting the list to turn into a democracy. Joseph left on his own, and still continues to be active in the NVDA community, and on the NVDA list.

6. I sought moderators for the NVDA list, and did not get many takers. I asked Gene to help, as he has been known to assist users on the NVDA list for a long time. Unfortunately, the number of complaints about Gene's communication style increased dramatically. Users were speaking of unsubscribing, although there wasn't a great number of users who did. Many new users were turned off by the way Gene provided information and engaged in arguments on the list.

7. Because the list is not a democracy and because of the problems, I asked Brian V to take the place of Gene as moderator. He was already known for his moderation style on the Windows 10 list. At this time, I also believed that it would be beneficial to attempt to reset the list culture on the NVDA list. Because I had a number of complaints, both on and off list, about the list traffic of such a large list, and indeed, some of the threads went on for many messages, with users not bothering to look up information or attempt to, with many of the same questions being asked sometimes multiple times a day. So, Brian and I embarked on resetting the list culture to be more condusive to learning about NVDA. We also realize that users have questions outside of the scope of NVDA, so we attempt to provide resources whenever possible, as well as a chat sublist where members can discuss any topic whatsoever.

 

So, today, the purpose of the NVDA list is as it has always been, except that the topic of NVDA is a bit more strictly enforced than it has been in the past. We welcome new users, and urge new users to tell us that when asking questions. We welcome veteran users. We welcome questions about NVDA and its features, whether expert or not. If a topic is not on topic, that topic will likely be locked. If questions are advanced, a user will likely receive a message directing them to a more appropriate place to ask that question.

 

While I have received some complaints about the direction of the list, they tend to be from only a couple of members, with Gene chief among them. I am, and always have been responsive to the list and its members, *all* of its members. If I recieve one or two complaints on an issue, I tend to dismiss those complaints, especially if those complaints come after a culture shift, because the new list is an adjustment for everyone. On the other hand, If I receive many complaints, I begin to think about what may be the cause, and what the solution may be.

 

Having said all of this, any member is welcome to sign up for any list of their choosing. It is unfortunate that the NVDA community needs to be divided, that a few members feel that they cannot ask questions. If you choose to consider signing up for the NVDA list, and if you run into problems, you can, of course, email me, and I am willing to work with you in resolving the situation. Because the NVDA community on groups.io already has NVDA as its topic, I did say that advertising a list similar in scope is not allowed, and I stick by that. We will see how things shake out, how many members Gene's list gets, etc. Hopefully Gene's list becomes a great resource for many of you. And hopefully you consider joining, rejoining, or posting your NVDA-related questions to the existing NVDA list.

 

Thanks.

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 8:18 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

The circumstances are entirely different in this case.  I knew there were other JFW lists and I said that before starting another one, it would be good to ask about what is available.  I won't go into the details in this case but the point is that in recent months, the large NVDA list has, in muuy and others opinions,  become discouraging of new or inexperienced members to ask questions.  if you look at the responses of others to my statement that I was considering starting a new list, you will find until now, unanimous agreement that a new list is a good idea.  You will also find a message from a former member of the other list giving reasons similar to mine that he left.

 

Also, I think it is a good idea for people to be a member of both lists.  The other list may have more information posted to it about topics like new training materials and activities of interest to the community.  I don't know if people will join my list who are active in those areas. 

 

Also, I didn't just criticize someone for starting a new JAWS list.  I said that before doing so, it would be a good idea to inquire about other lists to avoid duplication.  I didn't say one shouldn't be started.  It depends on if its purpose is different from already existing lists or if it is run differently in ways that some people may strongly prefer.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 9:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

 

 

Just what we need, another NVDA list.  You were quick to criticize another person for starting a new JFW users list when one already existed, yet you are doing the exact same thing, creating a new list which would be largely redundant and cause confusion. What makes you think that your NVDA list would be any better than the one that has been around for many years?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 8/26/2019 8:59 AM, Gene wrote:

To avoid list clutter, I won't respond to individual messages saying people will join.  I'll thank those now in one message.  The list needs a core of experienced members and I appreciate all who join.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 2:38 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

 

Count me in too.  I'll help all I can.  Cheers!

On 8/26/2019 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:

Thank you.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 8:27 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] NVDA Group

 

Gene,

Count me in. I'm not the most expert on NVDA but not a newbie with things either :)

Also, Brian Gaff (I think that's his name) probably will be interested on participating as well.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

Gene wrote:

I hope that if I set one up, it will attract enough knowledgeable users to answer beginners and less experienced users' questions well. 

 

Gene

 


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


Re: transferring money from pay pal to my bank

Jaffar Sidek
 

Hi.  I think you must first sort of join your bank account to your PayPal account.  There is a button or link for you to do this.  Paypal will ask you for your bank account number, then once you have filled in the exact details, it will send a token to your account for varification.  They will email you once the varification is confirmed, and then you can transfer cash from your PayPal account to your bank account and vice versa.  Cheers!

On 8/28/2019 11:32 AM, Holly wrote:
Troy:

I don't have any money in my PayPal account right now, so when I click on 'transfer money from your PayPal account to your bank' link, the next screen says there is nothing to transfer, so that is as far as I could go.

Maybe someone else can be of more help.

Sorry.

I am using Internet Explorer and Windows 7, but it shouldn't matter.


Re: transferring money from pay pal to my bank

Holly
 

Troy:

I don't have any money in my PayPal account right now, so when I click on 'transfer money from your PayPal account to your bank' link, the next screen says there is nothing to transfer, so that is as far as I could go.

Maybe someone else can be of more help.

Sorry.

I am using Internet Explorer and Windows 7, but it shouldn't matter.


Re: transferring money from pay pal to my bank

Troy Burnham
 

Once I click on transfer to my bank I get to the page that I mentioned before with the clickables, and at the top of that page there's a close link.

I don't use pay pal often so it could've changed since the last time I used it, but one of the areas I can click says something about a transfer fee and another one says free transfer. Of course I want the free transfer but the page doesn't appear to change once I click on free transfer and I never do get to the page where the edit field is where I can type how much I want to transfer.

Troy

On 8/27/2019 9:17 PM, Holly wrote:
Troy:

First click on Wallet, then transfer money, then you should get to the next screen that asks you whether you are transferring money in or out and which account.  Try clicking on the transfer link again.  It should work.


This week on Eyes On Success: Navilens Navigation System

blueskies11
 

This week’s episode of Eyes On Success is:

1935 NaviLens Navigation System (Aug. 28, 2019) 
Show Notes
NaviLens uses your smart phone’s camera to read preprinted tags in order to provide visually impaired individuals with information pertinent to their environment. Hosts Nancy and Peter Torpey talk with Borja Lopetegui, a Business Developer at NaviLens, about how this innovative technology works and how you can use it free for personal use.

 

The audio and show notes are available at:

www.EyesOnSuccess.net

and the podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Check out Eyes On Success (formerly ViewPoints)

A weekly, half hour audio program for people living with vision loss.

Find out more about the show and get links to past episodes at:

       www.EyesOnSuccess.net

Find the podcast on iTunes or use the URL:

       www.EyesOnSuccess.net/eos_podcast

Find us on social media at:

       www.facebook.com/EyesOnSuccess

       www.twitter.com/@_EyesOnSuccess

       www.audioboom.com/EyesOnSuccess

Subscribe to the announcements-only list by sending an e-mail to:

       EyesOnSuccess+Subscribe@...

Subscribe to the listener discussion group by sending an e-mail to:

       EOS_discuss+Subscribe@...

Send suggestions or comments to:

      hosts@...

 

 

Enjoy!

 


Re: playing video with jaws

Gene
 

If you just leave the window, it will probably stop.  Try going to the desktop.  There is a command to turn off speech but if going to the desktop works, you might as well just do that. 
 
If you ever want to turn off speech, I think the command is JAWS key space then s.  I believe it’s a toggle.  I'm not sure if I gave the command clearly.  Hold the JAWS key and press space.  Release both keys and type s.  But I haven't used JAWS for years and if I'm wrong, someone will correct me. 
 
The reason I like leaving speech on when possible is that if an error occurs, such as the browser crashing, JAWS may place you in some sort of error message.  Or there may be something like a notification you might want to know about.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 5:53 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] playing video with jaws

On this new win 10 computer using the latest jaws I have a problem when
playing a video. As it is playing jaws constantly reads the time
information. How do I turn this off?

Thanks
--

Please visit my web page
It’s motivational, inspirational with a touch of humor
There is also a very extensive resource list for the blind
: https://www.LennyMcHugh.com
International Brotherhood of Magicians member #4399




Re: transferring money from pay pal to my bank

Holly
 

Troy:

First click on Wallet, then transfer money, then you should get to the next screen that asks you whether you are transferring money in or out and which account. Try clicking on the transfer link again. It should work.


transferring money from pay pal to my bank

Troy Burnham
 

Hi all,

Can somebody tell me where to go on pay pal to transfer money from my pay pal account to my bank account? I've done it before but I can't figure it out now.

From the main page I clicked on transfer money, and at some point I ended up on the wallet page although I'm not sure how I ended up there, and I found an area that said transfer to bank and it was clickable so I clicked there, but the page never changed after that and I never found the edit field to type how much I wanted to transfer.

Btw I'm using jaws 2019, windows 10, and google chrome.

Troy


Re: J2018.1811.30 May Update + What's New

Kendra Schafer <redwing731@...>
 

Hi! 
Thank you for sending this around! I just repaired my computer and had to reinstall everything from the ground up, much like I would at first purchased. Luckily, I was able to send it into the repair shop. Anyway, I don’t know if the newly installed JAWS 2018 contains the update for my 32 bit laptop. I’ll have to play around with both my JAWS and NVDA settings later anyway. I’ll probably do that tomorrow because I have a meeting tonight. I might have that updated vertion which would be good to avoid the tech bugs that got fixed. 


"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear", Author Unknown. 
Thank you for reading this email! Also, please note that I have eighth grade spelling. I'm well known for spelling mistakes. Ironicly, writing is one of my gifts. 
Blessed  Be! 
Kendra Schaber, 
Student of Chemeketa Community College, 
member of 350.ORG Salem, 
Member of the National Federation of the Blind of Oregon, Capitol Chapter. 
Writing on my Polaris Braille Sense. 
Using both Gmail and Outlook. 
Go Detroit, Red Wings! Go Pittsburgh, Penguins! Go Portland, Winterhawks! Go Baltimore, Oriels!  Go Baltimore, Ravens! Go Oregon State Beavers, baseball and football teams!   
 

On Aug 27, 2019, at 16:36, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:

Hi All,
 
I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one missed this update for J2018 in May.  Below are the download links for both the 32 & 64 bit versions plus what's new in this release.
 
32 Bit:
 
 
64 Bit:
 
 
What's new:
 
Enhancements in JAWS 2018.1811.30 (May 2019)
 
The following is a list of improvements made in JAWS 2018 between the November 2018 update and the May 2019 update.
 
list of 3 items
• Fixed a long standing issue where updating JAWS or Fusion would overwrite your desktop icon from the prior same version, including the shortcut keystroke
you may have assigned to launch the software.
• Resolved an issue with performing a search on Amazon.com using the Chrome Browser when running JAWS or Fusion 2018.
• Resolved a reported issue where multi region title reading was failing.
list end

 
Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!
If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!


J2018.1811.30 May Update + What's New

Mike B
 

Hi All,
 
I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one missed this update for J2018 in May.  Below are the download links for both the 32 & 64 bit versions plus what's new in this release.
 
32 Bit:
 
 
64 Bit:
 
 
What's new:
 
Enhancements in JAWS 2018.1811.30 (May 2019)
 
The following is a list of improvements made in JAWS 2018 between the November 2018 update and the May 2019 update.
 
list of 3 items
• Fixed a long standing issue where updating JAWS or Fusion would overwrite your desktop icon from the prior same version, including the shortcut keystroke
you may have assigned to launch the software.
• Resolved an issue with performing a search on Amazon.com using the Chrome Browser when running JAWS or Fusion 2018.
• Resolved a reported issue where multi region title reading was failing.
list end

 
Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!
If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!


Re: air accessible air purifiers

Kendra Schafer <redwing731@...>
 

Hi all! 
I don’t know of an accessible one for you. I do know of a way around in accessability with using technology. I don’t know how many of you has ever heard of Aira. For those who have not, it’s a service that offers the ability to use your phone as a window along with the ability to use a computer to aid with things like inaccessible forms or inaccessible websites. As for this particular barrier, you can use your phone as a window to allow them to guide you with your equipment. You can even use them to see the lights for you with your phone. Mind you, you do have to pay for the service, but for short tasks like seeing lights in question or just reading your soup cans, you don’t have to pay for those short tasks because they offer them for free. There is the cheaper lower tech vertion called Be My Eyes that can also see the lights for you. But they don’t have the computer that you may need for inaccessible websites. I have both apps on my phone and I use them as needed. In fact, I’m trying to get into the habbit of using either of them so that whenever help is not around or whenever it is not avalible for me to use, I still have it avalible through my phone. Mind you, this may seem out of range for what you’re looking for, but it actually isn’t because in the case of your equipment, one application is to use them for turning something inaccessible to accessible. This is why I said that I have a way around your problem, in the case that you can’t find what you are looking for. I hope this helps!!! 


"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear", Author Unknown. 
Thank you for reading this email! Also, please note that I have eighth grade spelling. I'm well known for spelling mistakes. Ironicly, writing is one of my gifts. 
Blessed  Be! 
Kendra Schaber, 
Student of Chemeketa Community College, 
member of 350.ORG Salem, 
Member of the National Federation of the Blind of Oregon, Capitol Chapter. 
Writing on my Polaris Braille Sense. 
Using both Gmail and Outlook. 
Go Detroit, Red Wings! Go Pittsburgh, Penguins! Go Portland, Winterhawks! Go Baltimore, Oriels!  Go Baltimore, Ravens! Go Oregon State Beavers, baseball and football teams!   
 

On Aug 27, 2019, at 15:39, heather albright <kd5cbl@...> wrote:

Hello, I am trying to get an air purifier however, is there one that is  accessible?  Some of them are menu driven or have lights you have to see. Any ideas? Cheers Heather

 

"Blindness is a characteristic, not a handicap!" Dr. Kenneth Jernigan
e-mail:
kd5cbl@...
sites:
National Federation of The Blind:
www.nfb.org
An Accessible Online Library:
www.bookshare.org

 


playing video with jaws

Lenny McHugh
 

On this new win 10 computer using the latest jaws I have a problem when playing a video. As it is playing jaws constantly reads the time information. How do I turn this off?

Thanks
--

Please visit my web page
It’s motivational, inspirational with a touch of humor
There is also a very extensive resource list for the blind
: https://www.LennyMcHugh.com
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