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locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Leedy Diane Bomar
 



 Diane Bomar

On Feb 21, 2020, at 08:57, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...






Please stop misinforming people, based on what you don't know!
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Holly
 

Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard. It is light weight and portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help anytime with apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money identifiers, color identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does many amazing things to help blind people. Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a smart phone, but after taking the plunge, I never looked back. I am 75 years old, so no spring chicken either.
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Chris,

I was initially scared of the touch screen keyboard.  But I kept trying and trying and I've gotten pretty good at it as well. I am not very fast with it, but I m very accurate. I learned the method of editing by using the rotor to move around in a text field by word and character and then to edit mistakes.

I would say it takes me about a half an hour to write a 250 word message. 

I am wondering if you have been able to develop any real speed.  Sighted people have the advantage of the suggestions list--where in if you are typing along, the words are anticipated and they appear and can be selected by tapping on them before the need to type the whole word.  I have not mastered that feature.  Is there any way a blind person can take advantage of the suggestions list.


On 2/21/2020 5:21 AM, chris judge wrote:

I find the on-screen keyboard fine now. What made it so was practice, practice, practice.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: February 20, 2020 8:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi again:

 

I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.

 

Victor

 



On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@...> wrote:



Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard.  After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less.  I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier.  Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:

The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.

 

Victor

 



On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence@...> wrote:



Hello again:

 

For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.

 

Victor

 



On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie@...> wrote:



Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users.  So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.

To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them.  Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board.  I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity.  Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual.  Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>. 

On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:

 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

James Bentley
 

For the record, you can get full size Bluetooth keyboards with a number pad with all of the keys in the same place as a standard desktop keyboard.  Everything from a $25, plastic keyboard to a high dollar aircraft quality aluminum keyboard.

 

You can also get Bluetooth keyboards that do not have a number pad and are the size of a full size laptop keyboard.

 

And, of course, there are those tiny miniature , Bluetooth keyboards.  On the miniature keyboards, it is difficult for me to avoid fat fingering.

 

And, I cringe when I think about some one using a pointed object to type on a tiny fold out querty keyboard that folds out from some of the smart phones.

 

Cheers,

 

James B

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gene
 

You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 
 
You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 
 
Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

James Bentley
 

From what I have read in several places, this S E 2 will have a bezel. The phisical home button/finger print sensor is on the bottom bezel. And, it doesn't take up any screen space.

This phone sounds like it is a perfect size for me.

Cheers,

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:36 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

The Volume Keys are on the left side. The Power Button is on the right side. There are just no buttons on the screen; they occupy screen space. They are saying that there will be a Home Button on the SE that could come out this spring, but my bet is against a button that would occupy screen space. There are others more savvy than I, who disagree with my opinion in that regard.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:


Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

The Volume Keys are on the left side. The Power Button is on the right side. There are just no buttons on the screen; they occupy screen space. They are saying that there will be a Home Button on the SE that could come out this spring, but my bet is against a button that would occupy screen space. There are others more savvy than I, who disagree with my opinion in that regard.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:


Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

VoiceOver came on on my 11, the minute Ray started porting from my SE.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:04 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

And if voice over is on before you turn the phone off, it will come on when you turn the phone back on again.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

You can tell Siri to turn on VoiceOver or press the Home Button three times if older phone and Power Button three times if X or higher.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.




Gerald








On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:


That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

That is what I tell my friend in Texas, Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 5:21 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I find the on-screen keyboard fine now. What made it so was practice, practice, practice.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: February 20, 2020 8:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi again:



I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@gmail.com <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> > wrote:



Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard. After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less. I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier. Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:

The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hello again:



For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.

To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:



I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

I just really did not like the keyboard with my tablet. I've
been a good typist, was a medical transcriptionist for 20
out of the 40 years I worked, but, oh, that keyboard. I do
better on the iPhone screen.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Olusegun --
Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I can't address anything iOS specifically; that said, in the
Android World, there are myriads of keyboards available.
For example, there's a keyboard that's exactly like a
regular computer keyboard, only it's virtual. This keyboard
has the familiar Control, Alt, Up and Down Arrow keys.

For anyone interested, look for the Blind Accessibility
Keyboard at Google's Play Store. The most common keyboard
used by the blind in Androidville is Google's GBoard. No,
it doesn't have the control, alt, up and down arrow keys,
and it is primarily a Touch & Lift keyboard. I believe I
have about five different keyboards installed on My Shiny
Android toys and I switch back and forth amongst them though
I use GBoard much of the time.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Hadley has videos on the iPhone including one on typing on the keyboard.

I don't find the numbers a problem, but need to work on memorizing punctuation to keep from flicking myself sillier than I already am.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi again:

I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.

Victor



On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@gmail.com> wrote:





Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard. After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less. I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier. Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.


On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:


The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.

Victor



On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:




Hello again:

For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.

Victor



On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:





Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.


To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.


On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.








Gerald








On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:


Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.




Gerald








On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Good assessment, Gene.

A toich screen is like getting used to water, then swimming.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:18 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I've never used a touch screen device but I would imagine that the same kind of muscle memory you develop when using a keyboard makes using such a device much easier than may seem at first as you continue to use it. On my feature phone, with a keypad, I don't feel around when I want to up arrow or down arrow through apps or menu items. I place a certain finger right on the right part of a control that functions as up arrow or another that functions as down arrow. I am not assuming this is exactly like what a touch screen user does, but I would think it is similar to be a meaningful analogy.

So, the foreign seeming nature of a touch screen may result largely from people not realizing how much more similar it is to working with a keyboard than would seem to be the case without such a framework.

These are my speculations, not based on working with a touch screen, but by extrapolating from a keypad to what logically seems the case regarding a touch screen. I haven't wanted to go through the work of learning gestures and getting used to a touch screen. I don't use a phone in a way that it would benefit me. But I believe I have found a way to think about learning such a device that may make it less frightening to some or many people.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 3:57 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hello again:

For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.

Victor



On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:





Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.


To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.


On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.








Gerald








On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:


Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.




Gerald








On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

It's like Ann said, this might not apply to all.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 4:58 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hello again:

For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.

Victor



On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:





Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.


To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.


On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.








Gerald








On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:


Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.




Gerald








On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Yes, Jim, we navigate with our fingers. I always have had reasonably good spatial concepts, so in many cases, I don't have to flick to things, just land on them and double tap.

I have no desire for a separate keyboard.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 3:38 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.


To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.


On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.








Gerald








On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:


Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.




Gerald








On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Well stated, Ann.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ann Parsons
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 3:27 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi all,

It's always unwise to make blanket statements. Say rather, that some folks who are totally blind find that working with a smart phone that has no home button difficult, and they prefer phones that have pressable buttons.

Ann P.


Original message:
I have no experience with the foldable Samsun but I am totally blind
and use the newest IPhone which only has buttons on the sides for
volume and power. I have no problem using the phone with no home
button and I did not have any assistance learning to use it except for
some written instructions.
And I know quite a few totally blind users of this phone.
Marie
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:01 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are
completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all,
but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate
around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a
touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is
why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart
Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about
the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung
smart flip phone.

Gerald

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've
seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few
buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the
I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen
enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination
doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen
simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I
definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how
many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of
elimination of the home button?
You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.
Gene
----- Origial Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a
new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible
enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to
be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of
its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice
for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is
relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a
growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons,
making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone
without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.
Gerald

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:


Hi Lisa,
I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I
think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the
way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a
really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check
out the link below for a review.
https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-con
vince-1841791884
<https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-co
nvince-1841791884>
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville
To: Tech Talk
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
Hi, all.

My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he
means a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but
with the capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I
haven't heard anything about this. Does anyone here have any info
about this type of phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?

TIA

Lisa

--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com




--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

I learned mostly through the Hadley Videos. Before I learned how to use my phone, I knew of a woman with artificial eyes, who was very proficient on her phone. She taught a totally blind friend in Houston some about her phone before moving to Boston. There are plenty of totals using iPhones and Androids too, I feel sure.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Victor via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 3:18 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hello Gerald:

I also can assure you that I have been totally blind since birth. I learned to use the iPad and the iPhone by listening to articles and instructional YouTube videos. I need it very little sided assistance. It can be done.

Victor



On Feb 20, 2020, at 11:36 AM, Alex Stone via Groups.Io <alexstone87=hotmail.com@groups.io> wrote:




Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:








I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.








Gerald








On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:


Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.




Gerald








On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Well if you can talk as well as you can write you should have no problem using dictation in most situations, and for the record, dictation works much better on IOS than it does on a computer. IOS has a couple of typing modes. The default is standard typing, where you have to locate the key and double tap it to enter the keystroke. This is a great way to get comfortable with the on-screen keyboard. Once you are comfortable you can switch to touch typing. In this mode you just touch the keyboard and lift your finger to type it in. If you land on the wrong key, just slide your finger until you find the correct one, then lift your finger to type it. If you’re familiar with the layout of the qwerty keyboard, and I’m guessing you are, most times you will land in the right place, or close to it. You’d be surprised how quickly you will catch on if you would just approach it with an open mind.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 11:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Not true at all.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 11:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...
locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

It's interesting how I got started with IOS. A friend of mine had an iPod
touch. She let me fiddle with it a few times but I really wasn't all that
interested, but she swore by it's accessibility and the things she could
accomplish with it. One day we were speaking on the phone. She told me she
was going to buy an iPhone and would be selling her iPod touch. I decided on
a whim to buy it so I got on to paypal and sent her some cash. A day later I
went to visit her and she gave me the iPod. Within 5 minutes I was flustered
and told her I might have acted in haste. She offered to refund me as she
could have easily sold it elsewhere. I suggested me taking it for a day to
play with it. The next day she asked me if I still wanted to return the iPod
touch. I told her she could have it back over my dead body. I'm not saying I
had mastered it in a day, but I knew I would be fine if I just stuck with
it.

Sometimes I find some people are so unwilling to try anything new that they
sell themselves short and miss out on so much. We're in such a good place
now with regards to having equal access to things that were only a dream
only a few years ago. I can't speak for anyone else, but there's nothing
quite like the feeling of being independent.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of jan
howells via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 11:05 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I have been using ios since 2012. My brother bought me my very first iPod
Touch, Then in 1013, he bought me an iPad mini. He just bought me an iPad
mini 4. I love the books by Larry Lewis that National Braille Press has.
Thez have helped tremendously.
I think that he is the direcjor of flying blind.

Jan
10581 - 10600 of 97201