Date   

locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Loy <loyrg2845@...>
 


I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the  latest and most expensive.  You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right.  I hadn't thought about that. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 

If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 

 

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Holly
 

Gerald:

I have blue tooth hearing aids from Costco that are compatible with my iPhone. They cost $1400 a pair and work great.

Also, with dictation and Siri you can do almost everything hands free.

Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of useful information the list members offer you would convince you, as you are just closed minded on the subject.


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

James Bentley
 

Hi there Gerald,

I realize that I will not be writing email while I walk down the sidewalk
with my cane. But, dialing a phone number on the touch screen is easy
because the phone number pad is very large. The large numbers are in the
same location as a regular push button phone.

I have arthritis and diabetes which has robbed me of feelings in my finger
tips. If I stick my fingers in room temperature liquids, I can not feel any
thing at all. Yet, I have zero problems with touch screen phones.

You should be able to dial phone numbers or use dictation if you are not out
side in a lot of noise.

You can purchase a brand new iPhone for around $450.00. And, please don't
think of it as just a phone that you will only use a couple times per year.
. These devices are unbelievably addictive.

Its a pocket computer. Its a way to read email or text while you are
sitting in your doctors office. Its a music player. Its access to YouTube
or Amazon.com, news and sports, or the NLS Library, BARD books, and all of
the millions of other things on the internet. Its a light detector. Its a
color detector. A money reader. And a text reader that is almost as good
as OpenBook. You can take a full size keyboard and use it while in a hotel
room, a hospital room, or at a friends home.

I could go on and on but I think you can see at least some of this.

Good luck for you on what ever you decide.

Regards,

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald
Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:27 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


 But the big problem with full size keyboards  is that they are not
very portable.  But even if you could carry one around in a briefcase or
backpack, it would not be very practical to use in the street.  you
would have to sit down on the sidewalk and place it on your lap.  Or
maybe drag along a a rolling desk.  I would prefer a phone that could be
operated completely by voice commands, but there are apparently no
longer any such inexpensive 5G compatible animals like the Samsung Haven
and Gusto 3.  I know all about Siri, but I'm not about to spend $1000
for an IPhone I would keep on hand mostly for emergencies.  am I am also
hearing impaired and wear hearing aids, so I won't even go into the
problems of hearing clearly on a smart phone in a noisy environment. 
And I am familiar with blutoot hearing aids, which cost $8000 a pair or
more and can connect wirelessly to an IPhone, but these are not suitable
for all types of hearing loss and besides,  are way out of my price
league right now.


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 12:02 PM, Holly wrote:
Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard.  It is light weight and
portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help anytime with
apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money identifiers, color
identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does many amazing
things to help blind people.  Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a smart phone,
but after taking the plunge, I never looked back.  I am 75 years old,
so no spring chicken either.




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald Levy
 


Well, thanks for giving me credit for doing something good. LOL!


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 12:14 PM, Gene wrote:
It should be said that Gerald's lack of correct information is causing others to send good information.  Many people may not know about what is available in terms of keyboards and that is useful information. 
 
If the discussion stops producing useful information, I'll ask that it be stopped but for now, that isn't the case. 
The discussion proeduced a lot of experiences and observations from users that might help people overcome their fear and apprehension about trying a smart phone, and that is a good thing as well. 
 
Gene, Owner

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



 Diane Bomar

On Feb 21, 2020, at 08:57, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...






Please stop misinforming people, based on what you don't know!


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald Levy
 

But the big problem with full size keyboards  is that they are not very portable.  But even if you could carry one around in a briefcase or backpack, it would not be very practical to use in the street.  you would have to sit down on the sidewalk and place it on your lap.  Or maybe drag along a a rolling desk.  I would prefer a phone that could be operated completely by voice commands, but there are apparently no longer any such inexpensive 5G compatible animals like the Samsung Haven and Gusto 3.  I know all about Siri, but I'm not about to spend $1000 for an IPhone I would keep on hand mostly for emergencies.  am I am also hearing impaired and wear hearing aids, so I won't even go into the problems of hearing clearly on a smart phone in a noisy environment.  And I am familiar with blutoot hearing aids, which cost $8000 a pair or more and can connect wirelessly to an IPhone, but these are not suitable for all types of hearing loss and besides,  are way out of my price league right now.


Gerald

On 2/21/2020 12:02 PM, Holly wrote:
Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard.  It is light weight and portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help anytime with apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money identifiers, color identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does many amazing things to help blind people.  Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a smart phone, but after taking the plunge, I never looked back.  I am 75 years old, so no spring chicken either.



locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gene
 

That's right.  I hadn't thought about that. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 

If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 

 

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gene
 

It should be said that Gerald's lack of correct information is causing others to send good information.  Many people may not know about what is available in terms of keyboards and that is useful information. 
 
If the discussion stops producing useful information, I'll ask that it be stopped but for now, that isn't the case. 
The discussion proeduced a lot of experiences and observations from users that might help people overcome their fear and apprehension about trying a smart phone, and that is a good thing as well. 
 
Gene, Owner

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



 Diane Bomar

On Feb 21, 2020, at 08:57, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...






Please stop misinforming people, based on what you don't know!


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

I turned that off. I’m not as fast as a sighted person, but I can certainly get things done in a timely fashion. Remember that dictate is quite accurate now, and you can use the router to edit the message after it is dictated. I’ve been using dictate more and more except when in noisy environments where it is not practical to do so.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: February 21, 2020 1:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi Chris,

I was initially scared of the touch screen keyboard.  But I kept trying and trying and I've gotten pretty good at it as well. I am not very fast with it, but I m very accurate. I learned the method of editing by using the rotor to move around in a text field by word and character and then to edit mistakes.

I would say it takes me about a half an hour to write a 250 word message. 

I am wondering if you have been able to develop any real speed.  Sighted people have the advantage of the suggestions list--where in if you are typing along, the words are anticipated and they appear and can be selected by tapping on them before the need to type the whole word.  I have not mastered that feature.  Is there any way a blind person can take advantage of the suggestions list.

On 2/21/2020 5:21 AM, chris judge wrote:

I find the on-screen keyboard fine now. What made it so was practice, practice, practice.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: February 20, 2020 8:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi again:

 

I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.

 

Victor

 

 

On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@...> wrote:



Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard.  After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less.  I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier.  Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:

The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.

 

Victor

 

 

On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence@...> wrote:



Hello again:

 

For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.

 

Victor

 

 

On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie@...> wrote:



Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users.  So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.

To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them.  Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board.  I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity.  Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual.  Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>. 

On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:

 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 

If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 

 

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Leedy Diane Bomar
 

Also, the Apple magic keyboards have tactile markings on the F and J keys. Seeing AI is actually produced by Microsoft but runs on iOS.
Apple Accessibility is available 24/7 for free, and they will screen share with you.


Diane Bomar
On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:02, Holly <feyk7@comcast.net> wrote:
Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard. It is light weight and portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help anytime with apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money identifiers, color identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does many amazing things to help blind people. Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a smart phone, but after taking the plunge, I never looked back. I am 75 years old, so no spring chicken either.


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Leedy Diane Bomar
 



 Diane Bomar

On Feb 21, 2020, at 08:57, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...






Please stop misinforming people, based on what you don't know!


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Holly
 

Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard. It is light weight and portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help anytime with apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money identifiers, color identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does many amazing things to help blind people. Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a smart phone, but after taking the plunge, I never looked back. I am 75 years old, so no spring chicken either.


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Chris,

I was initially scared of the touch screen keyboard.  But I kept trying and trying and I've gotten pretty good at it as well. I am not very fast with it, but I m very accurate. I learned the method of editing by using the rotor to move around in a text field by word and character and then to edit mistakes.

I would say it takes me about a half an hour to write a 250 word message. 

I am wondering if you have been able to develop any real speed.  Sighted people have the advantage of the suggestions list--where in if you are typing along, the words are anticipated and they appear and can be selected by tapping on them before the need to type the whole word.  I have not mastered that feature.  Is there any way a blind person can take advantage of the suggestions list.


On 2/21/2020 5:21 AM, chris judge wrote:

I find the on-screen keyboard fine now. What made it so was practice, practice, practice.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: February 20, 2020 8:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi again:

 

I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.

 

Victor

 



On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@...> wrote:



Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard.  After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less.  I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier.  Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:

The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.

 

Victor

 



On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence@...> wrote:



Hello again:

 

For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.

 

Victor

 



On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie@...> wrote:



Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users.  So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.

To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them.  Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board.  I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity.  Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual.  Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@...><KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>. 

On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:

 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

James Bentley
 

For the record, you can get full size Bluetooth keyboards with a number pad with all of the keys in the same place as a standard desktop keyboard.  Everything from a $25, plastic keyboard to a high dollar aircraft quality aluminum keyboard.

 

You can also get Bluetooth keyboards that do not have a number pad and are the size of a full size laptop keyboard.

 

And, of course, there are those tiny miniature , Bluetooth keyboards.  On the miniature keyboards, it is difficult for me to avoid fat fingering.

 

And, I cringe when I think about some one using a pointed object to type on a tiny fold out querty keyboard that folds out from some of the smart phones.

 

Cheers,

 

James B

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...






locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gene
 

You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 
 
You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 
 
Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

James Bentley
 

From what I have read in several places, this S E 2 will have a bezel. The phisical home button/finger print sensor is on the bottom bezel. And, it doesn't take up any screen space.

This phone sounds like it is a perfect size for me.

Cheers,

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:36 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

The Volume Keys are on the left side. The Power Button is on the right side. There are just no buttons on the screen; they occupy screen space. They are saying that there will be a Home Button on the SE that could come out this spring, but my bet is against a button that would occupy screen space. There are others more savvy than I, who disagree with my opinion in that regard.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:


Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

The Volume Keys are on the left side. The Power Button is on the right side. There are just no buttons on the screen; they occupy screen space. They are saying that there will be a Home Button on the SE that could come out this spring, but my bet is against a button that would occupy screen space. There are others more savvy than I, who disagree with my opinion in that regard.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:


Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

VoiceOver came on on my 11, the minute Ray started porting from my SE.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:04 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

And if voice over is on before you turn the phone off, it will come on when you turn the phone back on again.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

You can tell Siri to turn on VoiceOver or press the Home Button three times if older phone and Power Button three times if X or higher.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.




Gerald








On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:


That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

That is what I tell my friend in Texas, Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 5:21 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I find the on-screen keyboard fine now. What made it so was practice, practice, practice.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: February 20, 2020 8:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi again:



I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@gmail.com <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> > wrote:



Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard. After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less. I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier. Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:

The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hello again:



For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.

To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:



I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

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