Date   

locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Alex Stone
 

A 10 x max

On 21 Feb 2020, at 23:45, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@windstream.net> wrote:

What is an ssmax?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alex Stone
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:39 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I feel the same about my xsmax.
On 21 Feb 2020, at 18:21, Victor <victorelawrence@gmail.com> wrote:

I love my iPhone 11 and I use it for everything everywhere.

Yes, iPhones do crash. My iPhone 7 Plus that I had for two years crashed last summer. Fortunately, I was able to get a decent deal on the iPhone 11 back in October. Now I use it and I’m very happy with it. Wow phones to crash, it isn’t too hard to get a new one if you can work out a deal with your carrier as I did with T-Mobile.

You can do just about everything with the iPhone and the android phone using Siri, Google assistant and some form of dictation. Yes, the iPhone and the android phone is a very convenient pocket computer that will enable you to do so much in your daily life that you will not believe it! It is well worth the investment and the time it takes to learn.

Blessings,

Victor
On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:08 AM, james f hooper <james_hooper@earthlink.net> wrote:
Greetings holly I tried writing off list couldn't figure out how or what
command to use, wanted to talk with you about your hearing aids, I
was just diagnosed Tuesday with a severe hearing loss and need to
look in to getting hearing aids.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Holly
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:54 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald:

I have blue tooth hearing aids from Costco that are compatible with my
iPhone. They cost $1400 a pair and work great.

Also, with dictation and Siri you can do almost everything hands free.

Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of useful information the
list members offer you would convince you, as you are just closed
minded on the subject.















locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

You know, someone had posted instructions on one of the iPhone lists about the differences in phones without the Home Button, and I studied them, would just read over those instructions periodically. My husband just knew I'd have frustrations with the 11, but have not. It is so sturdy and reliable.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Dowling
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:33 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I also love my iPhone 11.
Just got it a few weeks ago, and switching from an 8 to an 11 was kinda challenging at first, but I used one of my friend's phone a few months back, and he had a xr, so it obviously wasn't that different.
On Feb 21, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Pamela Dominguez <pammygirl99@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay; I can't figure out how you can have a virtual keyboard. I think that people were asking about physical keyboards. Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I can't address anything iOS specifically; that said, in the Android
World, there are myriads of keyboards available. For example, there's
a keyboard that's exactly like a regular computer keyboard, only it's
virtual. This keyboard has the familiar Control, Alt, Up and Down Arrow keys.

For anyone interested, look for the Blind Accessibility Keyboard at
Google's Play Store. The most common keyboard used by the blind in
Androidville is Google's GBoard. No, it doesn't have the control,
alt, up and down arrow keys, and it is primarily a Touch & Lift
keyboard. I believe I have about five different keyboards installed
on My Shiny Android toys and I switch back and forth amongst them though I use GBoard much of the time.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado







locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

I had that problem with my SE. It was a super phone, and, at least, had more battery life than any flip phone I had, but still...

The 11 is living up to what I heard about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Karim Lakhani
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my iphone!
but the battery drains real fast.
When I'm waiting for transportation it ccan go for hours, if you don't listen to radio and such.
do you use a charging back up?
I had a case with my 5se, but the 7 would be nice if I didn't have to carry back ups.


From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the latest and most expensive. You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right. I hadn't thought about that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: chris judge <mailto:chrisjudge1967@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

You don't know that. Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges? If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem?
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing. There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:
Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:
a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.
It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:
That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.


Gerald


On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald


On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:

Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

What is an ssmax?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alex Stone
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:39 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I feel the same about my xsmax.
On 21 Feb 2020, at 18:21, Victor <victorelawrence@gmail.com> wrote:

I love my iPhone 11 and I use it for everything everywhere.

Yes, iPhones do crash. My iPhone 7 Plus that I had for two years crashed last summer. Fortunately, I was able to get a decent deal on the iPhone 11 back in October. Now I use it and I’m very happy with it. Wow phones to crash, it isn’t too hard to get a new one if you can work out a deal with your carrier as I did with T-Mobile.

You can do just about everything with the iPhone and the android phone using Siri, Google assistant and some form of dictation. Yes, the iPhone and the android phone is a very convenient pocket computer that will enable you to do so much in your daily life that you will not believe it! It is well worth the investment and the time it takes to learn.

Blessings,

Victor
On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:08 AM, james f hooper <james_hooper@earthlink.net> wrote:

Greetings holly I tried writing off list couldn't figure out how or what
command to use, wanted to talk with you about your hearing aids, I
was just diagnosed Tuesday with a severe hearing loss and need to
look in to getting hearing aids.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Holly
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:54 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald:

I have blue tooth hearing aids from Costco that are compatible with my
iPhone. They cost $1400 a pair and work great.

Also, with dictation and Siri you can do almost everything hands free.

Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of useful information the
list members offer you would convince you, as you are just closed
minded on the subject.










locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

My problem too, Gearld, just like not living near Consumer
Cellular, so having to go AT&T for a while. I told Consumer
Cellular if they ever got a store here again, I'd be back.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:19 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Which is great if you live near a Costco with an audiology
department. But unfortunately, I don't,and would have to buy
them from a private audiologist.  And I am not comfortable
buying a refurbed IPhone online, which would still cost a
few hundred dollars, because if I have trouble with it, who
would I turn to for help?  So between a new IPhone, which
would cost about $1000, plus another $1000 for the cost of
one yearof service,  and a pair of blutoot hearing aids to
go with it, which could cost as much as $8000 or more, the
total cost could come close to ten grand. Yikes!   This
topic has been discussed extensively on the Blind Hearing
Aid Users list.


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 12:53 PM, Holly wrote:
Gerald:

I have blue tooth hearing aids from   Costco that are
compatible with
my iPhone.  They cost $1400 a pair and work great.

Also, with dictation and Siri you can do almost everything
hands free.

Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of useful
information the list
members offer you  would convince you, as you are just
closed minded
on the subject.






locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Gearld has a very good list for bind hearing aid users. I
don't have the precise information for joining, but Gerald,
would you please post it?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of james f hooper
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Greetings holly I tried writing off list couldn't figure
out how or what
command to use, wanted to talk with you about your hearing
aids, I was just diagnosed Tuesday with a severe hearing
loss and need to look in to getting hearing aids.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On
Behalf Of Holly
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:54 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald:

I have blue tooth hearing aids from Costco that are
compatible with my
iPhone. They cost $1400 a pair and work great.

Also, with dictation and Siri you can do almost everything
hands free.

Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of useful
information the list members offer you would convince you,
as you are just closed minded on the subject.


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

No, even with my SE, I could pair and have Bluetooth in my hearing aids. That comes in really handy, if I am in a loud place and need to make a call, call cab or whatever kind of call.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:58 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the latest and most expensive. You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----

From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right. I hadn't thought about that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: chris judge <mailto:chrisjudge1967@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



You don't know that. Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges? If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem?

If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing. There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.



You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just to support your bias.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.



Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!







On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

At cards today, my trusty iPhone told me and my table that
it was 36 outside, when I asked it. Of course, had I had my
old flipper, I could have called time and weather here. It
would have taken longer, but I could have used that
alternative.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi there Gerald,

I realize that I will not be writing email while I walk down
the sidewalk with my cane. But, dialing a phone number on
the touch screen is easy because the phone number pad is
very large. The large numbers are in the same location as a
regular push button phone.

I have arthritis and diabetes which has robbed me of
feelings in my finger tips. If I stick my fingers in room
temperature liquids, I can not feel any thing at all. Yet,
I have zero problems with touch screen phones.

You should be able to dial phone numbers or use dictation if
you are not out side in a lot of noise.

You can purchase a brand new iPhone for around $450.00.
And, please don't think of it as just a phone that you will
only use a couple times per year.
. These devices are unbelievably addictive.

Its a pocket computer. Its a way to read email or text
while you are sitting in your doctors office. Its a music
player. Its access to YouTube or Amazon.com, news and
sports, or the NLS Library, BARD books, and all of the
millions of other things on the internet. Its a light
detector. Its a color detector. A money reader. And a
text reader that is almost as good as OpenBook. You can
take a full size keyboard and use it while in a hotel room,
a hospital room, or at a friends home.

I could go on and on but I think you can see at least some
of this.

Good luck for you on what ever you decide.

Regards,

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:27 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


 But the big problem with full size keyboards  is that they
are not very portable.  But even if you could carry one
around in a briefcase or backpack, it would not be very
practical to use in the street.  you would have to sit down
on the sidewalk and place it on your lap.  Or maybe drag
along a a rolling desk.  I would prefer a phone that could
be operated completely by voice commands, but there are
apparently no longer any such inexpensive 5G compatible
animals like the Samsung Haven and Gusto 3.  I know all
about Siri, but I'm not about to spend $1000 for an IPhone I
would keep on hand mostly for emergencies.  am I am also
hearing impaired and wear hearing aids, so I won't even go
into the problems of hearing clearly on a smart phone in a
noisy environment. And I am familiar with blutoot hearing
aids, which cost $8000 a pair or more and can connect
wirelessly to an IPhone, but these are not suitable for all
types of hearing loss and besides,  are way out of my price
league right now.


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 12:02 PM, Holly wrote:
Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard.  It is light
weight and
portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate
locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help
anytime with
apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money
identifiers, color
identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does
many amazing
things to help blind people.  Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a
smart phone,
but after taking the plunge, I never looked back.  I am 75
years old,
so no spring chicken either.




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

So, Gearld, what is practical to use in the street other
than guide dog, cane, or sighted guide - that is for a
totally blind old woman who also wears hearing aids?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


 But the big problem with full size keyboards  is that they
are not very portable.  But even if you could carry one
around in a briefcase or backpack, it would not be very
practical to use in the street.  you would have to sit down
on the sidewalk and place it on your lap.  Or maybe drag
along a a rolling desk.  I would prefer a phone that could
be operated completely by voice commands, but there are
apparently no longer any such inexpensive 5G compatible
animals like the Samsung Haven and Gusto 3.  I know all
about Siri, but I'm not about to spend $1000 for an IPhone I
would keep on hand mostly for emergencies.  am I am also
hearing impaired and wear hearing aids, so I won't even go
into the problems of hearing clearly on a smart phone in a
noisy environment. And I am familiar with blutoot hearing
aids, which cost $8000 a pair or more and can connect
wirelessly to an IPhone, but these are not suitable for all
types of hearing loss and besides,  are way out of my price
league right now.


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 12:02 PM, Holly wrote:
Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard.  It is light
weight and
portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate
locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help
anytime with
apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money
identifiers, color
identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does
many amazing
things to help blind people.  Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a
smart phone,
but after taking the plunge, I never looked back.  I am 75
years old,
so no spring chicken either.




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Alex Stone
 

Nobody’s fighting but Gerald


On 21 Feb 2020, at 22:15, Gary Greico <pianotuner3@...> wrote:



Could we stop fighting children.


On 21-Feb-20 4:30 PM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:


No, I'm not really Christ.  I'm Jewish and find your reference to Christ in this context highly offensive and inappropriate for this list. Don't do it again.  


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 3:34 PM, Alex Stone wrote:
Surely he isn’t really Christ, is he?


On 21 Feb 2020, at 15:47, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:



Christ Gerald, that’s true of everything, isn’t it?

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?



On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Oh yes, they will screen share, and what I like, unlike Microsoft Disability, they'll say, go to Settings; then General, then Battery or whatever. They will direct instead of fix the question.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Leedy Diane Bomar
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:10 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Also, the Apple magic keyboards have tactile markings on the F and J keys. Seeing AI is actually produced by Microsoft but runs on iOS.
Apple Accessibility is available 24/7 for free, and they will screen share with you.


Diane Bomar
On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:02, Holly <feyk7@comcast.net> wrote:
Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard. It is light weight and portable, and the keys are large enough to accommodate locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help anytime with apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money identifiers, color identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does many amazing things to help blind people. Even can read handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a smart phone, but after taking the plunge, I never looked back. I am 75 years old, so no spring chicken either.


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

And, Hollie, you have not been blind for many years, have
you?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Holly
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald:

I have an Apple Magic blue tooth keyboard. It is light
weight and portable, and the keys are large enough to
accommodate locator dots.

Of course, it would not be practical to walk and use it.

Also, with a smart phone, you have access to sighted help
anytime with apps like 'Be My Eyes' and AiRA.

There are many text to speech scanning apps, money
identifiers, color identifiers.
Apple also has a free app called Seeing AI, which does many
amazing things to help blind people. Even can read
handwriting.


I was very reluctant to switch from my flip phone to a smart
phone, but after taking the plunge, I never looked back. I
am 75 years old, so no spring chicken either.


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Alex Stone
 

And did he crucify you?


On 21 Feb 2020, at 22:47, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

 ...And I once referred to another Chris on another list by accidentally adding a T to his name as in Chris = Christ.  Until the day he died, he never let me forget it.  What bad hings happen over simple typos.


On 2/21/2020 4:44 PM, John Dowling wrote:
Gerald,
Lighten up man.
I wasn't around for windows 95, but I did come along during windows 2000, and I remember using windows xp during 3rd grade lol.
Man, I feel so old, although, I think I'm the youngest on this list, I'm 19.


On Feb 21, 2020, at 4:30 PM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




No, I'm not really Christ.  I'm Jewish and find your reference to Christ in this context highly offensive and inappropriate for this list. Don't do it again.  


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 3:34 PM, Alex Stone wrote:
Surely he isn’t really Christ, is he?


On 21 Feb 2020, at 15:47, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:



Christ Gerald, that’s true of everything, isn’t it?

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?



On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Ron, it seems like on my SE, that VoiceOver would say a word, and I could check above my text for choices, but I am not noticing that on my 11. It could be that I haven't typed enough for that yet. I usually dictate texts, but I do type emails. I don't know why I do that, but that has been my habbit.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi Chris,

I was initially scared of the touch screen keyboard. But I kept trying and trying and I've gotten pretty good at it as well. I am not very fast with it, but I m very accurate. I learned the method of editing by using the rotor to move around in a text field by word and character and then to edit mistakes.

I would say it takes me about a half an hour to write a 250 word message.

I am wondering if you have been able to develop any real speed. Sighted people have the advantage of the suggestions list--where in if you are typing along, the words are anticipated and they appear and can be selected by tapping on them before the need to type the whole word. I have not mastered that feature. Is there any way a blind person can take advantage of the suggestions list.



On 2/21/2020 5:21 AM, chris judge wrote:


I find the on-screen keyboard fine now. What made it so was practice, practice, practice.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: February 20, 2020 8:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi again:



I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@gmail.com <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> > wrote:



Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard. After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less. I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier. Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:

The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:victorelawrence=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hello again:



For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.



Victor







On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> <mailto:wohlggie=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.

To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@gmail.com> <mailto:wohlggie@gmail.com> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:



I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>





--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

I had wanted one, James, but my SE needed battery replacement. I was not going to replace a battery, then buy a new phone in a couple of months. So, I decided to get an XR, but they had none in stock, got an 11 for $648, so a good deal, and I do like the phone. It, of course, is well built and in a sturdy case, so feels very stout and reliable. I got a tempered glass screen protector - like the glass feeling, not the plastic type as with an Otter Box.

And oh, Seeing A I is really a good thing, and they are working on it to improve it all the time. When I first got it, I took this picture of Jim cooking, and was told man cooking.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:42 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

From what I have read in several places, this S E 2 will have a bezel. The phisical home button/finger print sensor is on the bottom bezel. And, it doesn't take up any screen space.

This phone sounds like it is a perfect size for me.

Cheers,

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:36 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

The Volume Keys are on the left side. The Power Button is on the right side. There are just no buttons on the screen; they occupy screen space. They are saying that there will be a Home Button on the SE that could come out this spring, but my bet is against a button that would occupy screen space. There are others more savvy than I, who disagree with my opinion in that regard.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:


Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

Maybe Mr. Levy is not interested in a smart phone, but by
now, I think it is possible that he has the idea that some
of us are and use them throughout the day.

As for anything going wrong, Apple has Apple Care, which I
am not purchasing, but it is available, and I am sure that
some kind of warranty protection is available for the
various brands of Android phones.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Olusegun --
Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Alex, I doubt if Gerald has ever held a smart toy in his
hands! Whilst his fears and assumptions are somewhat
misplaced, I'd like to think that you and I were in the same
place until our hot hands proved us wrong when we began
playing with our smart toys! Believe me, Alex, I have a
number of blind friends who contend that I've made a horrid
mistake running with Android toys. However, I am a SILLY
CHILD who loves to tinker with what I consider to be
impossible just to see how far along I can get by learning
what I don't know. I have surprised myself, and yet I can't
come up with a way to teach some of my findings to others.
In my books, that's not very nice!

More than anything else, curiosity pushed me to get out and
go lay my feeble fingers on a smart toy. First, I grabbed
the iPhone; for reasons I can't even describe in clear
language, it didn't FIT SNUGLY in my hands; I couldn't claim
it as mine. Next, I grabbed an Android toy and, after five
minutes of playing with it, I took it home with me! The
sales lady who helped me was stunned! Before me, she had
sold more iPhones to blind customers and she was so sure I
wanted an iPhone too. I haven't looked back ever since.
Will I ever purchase an iPhone anytime soon? May be when I
get to the point where I want to do a comparison analysis of
the two mobile platforms and record the results for
educational purposes. For now, I personally DO NOT WISH to
purchase a smart toy that DOES NOT COME with an SD card slot
as I prefer to keep documents and such saved locally just so
I can access them when I happen to find myself in
environments where the cloud waits patiently for the rain
drops to begin trickling down. Also, if I don't have access
to my smart toy for some reason, I can take out the SD card
and go to work on a Windows computer without compromising
anything.

Anyhow, it is my hope that those of us who haul around a
smart toy can continue to help encourage Mr. Levy to get to
a phone store and go play with a smart toy. Hey, someday,
he could be teaching me something I didn't pay attention to
on my smart toy!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Alex Stone
 

For young kids, they already are.

On 21 Feb 2020, at 23:15, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@windstream.net> wrote:

I hate to tell you, Gerald, but I predict, and, of course, there are odds that I'm not right, but I predict that within the next generation, phones will be the computer of choice, more especially, if they develop one that can have a folding screen - screen space, screen space, screen space is what people want, sighted people, 99 percent of the market share.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:


He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:


Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>










locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

I had a 4S, and never quite got it, but when I got my SE, I did get it. I like a touch screen now, do not want a keyboard or keypad of any kind. That is my particular taste. Other consumers will have a variety of choices that they might want that I would not.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:46 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Yes, I started with the 4S as well. I can’t remember a time in my life where I felt quite as liberated as when I realized I was going to master the touch screen.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Dowling
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:07 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald,

There's no way you don't keep up with mainstream tech, right?Because you should at least know that Apple still has the physical volume/power buttons. Like I said in a much earlier post, If able, I strongly recommend going to an Apple Store and checking out the new phones.

I'm sure a representative wouldn't mind showing you how to use VoiceOver, and you never know, you may like it.

Just some friendly advice from an ios user of nerly 9 years now. Wow... time flies. It feels like yesterday when I got my 4S. :)





On Feb 21, 2020, at 7:15 AM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!







On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

I hate to tell you, Gerald, but I predict, and, of course, there are odds that I'm not right, but I predict that within the next generation, phones will be the computer of choice, more especially, if they develop one that can have a folding screen - screen space, screen space, screen space is what people want, sighted people, 99 percent of the market share.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?




The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:


He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?





Gerald








On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:


Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.



Gerald





On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:





I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.





Gerald





On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?



You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.



Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?





According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.



Gerald





On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,



I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.



https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884






Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Carolyn Arnold
 

That's right, just like the rest of the phones, TVs, tablets, etc, etc, etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:29 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Remember when Appleboasted that it would start making IPhones in the US? How did that work out? Now they are all made in China in sweatshops whose workers are paid coolie wages to maximize Apple's profits. And now, thanks to the Corona virus, Apple has reported that it may have to reduce its production capacity in China. Coupled with the President's tariffs on Chinese imports, the price of an IPhone as well as other smart phones could go even higher. As far as those specialized phones, they are not sold in stores. At least if you buy a smart phone at a Best Buy store, you can bring it back to them for repair because they deal with large, mainstream manufacturers like LG and Samsung that have facilities in the US. But bring a BlindShell into Best Buy for repair and they will probably laugh you right out of the store.


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 9:14 AM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. wrote:
Hmm, Gerald, I may be wrong, but I don't know of any smart toy as I
call them being made in the United States! Even the iPhone is
assembled in China and imported back into our country; Samsung toys
are generally assembled in Vietnam, and Google Pixel toys in Taiwan.
Heck, even Braille devices which cost more than an arm and a few toes
are assembled outside the United States and imported back to our country.

So, in that regard, the Smart Vision and Blindshell toys are just
following the trend. Manufacturers generally assemble their toys
where labour is extremely cheap and poorly regulated; then they bring
them to us to purchase at whatever price point they elect to charge.
In the Android world where there's no ONE SIZE FITS ALL, several of
the available smart toys in the mainstream are made by companies that
DO NOT HAVE any physical presence in our country; yet, these toys
perform at reasonably high levels for a long, long time. It is wrong
to single out the producers of the Smart Vision and the Blindshell
toys especially since all they are doing is following in the tracks of
other manufacturers. If your reason is to be adopted, we all might as
well walk around naked 'cause more than 100% of the shirts and coats
we wear are made elsewhere and brought here for resale; but we don't knock them off!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado




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