On Feb 21, 2020, at 18:16, Pamela Dominguez <pammygirl99@...> wrote:

On Feb 21, 2020, at 18:16, Pamela Dominguez <pammygirl99@...> wrote:

Do you have predictive text turned on? I know that works the way you described.


Diane Bomar

On Feb 21, 2020, at 16:31, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> wrote:

Ron, it seems like on my SE, that VoiceOver would say a word, and I could check above my text for choices, but I am not noticing that on my 11. It could be that I haven't typed enough for that yet. I usually dictate texts, but I do type emails. I don't know why I do that, but that has been my habbit.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi Chris,

I was initially scared of the touch screen keyboard. But I kept trying and trying and I've gotten pretty good at it as well. I am not very fast with it, but I m very accurate. I learned the method of editing by using the rotor to move around in a text field by word and character and then to edit mistakes.

I would say it takes me about a half an hour to write a 250 word message.

I am wondering if you have been able to develop any real speed. Sighted people have the advantage of the suggestions list--where in if you are typing along, the words are anticipated and they appear and can be selected by tapping on them before the need to type the whole word. I have not mastered that feature. Is there any way a blind person can take advantage of the suggestions list.



On 2/21/2020 5:21 AM, chris judge wrote:


I find the on-screen keyboard fine now. What made it so was practice, practice, practice.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Victor
Sent: February 20, 2020 8:38 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



Hi again:



I wish there were some good tutorials for learning the on screen keyboard so that more of us could type on that keyboard as easily as sighted people do. I know of an app called talking Taiper, but it has not been updated in over a year. It might not be a very good tutorial anymore and it might not be compatible with iOS 13. But if you know braille, braille screen input is a very good way to use your on screen keyboard. Especially if you have one of the larger iPhones such as the iPhone 7 Plus or later.



Victor




On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth <wohlggie@... <mailto:wohlggie@...> > wrote:



Hi There Again!

When I received my first Iphone I purchased a blue tooth keyboard expecting to have issues with the onscreen keyboard. After about a month to month and a half I found myself using the external keyboard less and less. I do wish there was a blue tooth keyboard with a numberpad so when I wish to enter a string of numbers I could do it much easier. Good Luck and Have A Good 1! de

<wohlggie@...> <mailto:wohlggie@...> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 18:19, Victor wrote:

The one thing I have not mastered on touchscreens is using the on-screen keyboard well. However, I work around that by using braille screen input and dictation. But again, those who have dexterity issues and finger sensitivity issues may have trouble using a touchscreen.


Victor



On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Victor via Groups.Io <victorelawrence@...> <mailto:victorelawrence@...> wrote:



Hello again:



For those who have lost their eyesight later in life, I can totally understand why they might have trouble using touch screens. They may have a deck stair ready issues and finger sensitivity issues that those of us who have been blind since birth or since we were very young do not have. Therefore, I can certainly see the exceptions to what we are talking about. In these cases, maybe a flip phone would be best.



Victor




On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Jim Wohlgamuth via Groups.Io <wohlggie@...> <mailto:wohlggie@...> wrote:



Hello Jerald!

Wonder what you base you conclusions on? I personally know quite a number of totally blind iPhone users and I personally have owned 6 or 7 touch screen phones and know of a fairly large number of other totally blind Androind users. So wonder if you actually took any sort of poll -scientific or other wise to come up with your conclusions..? Yes, I had a small amount of sighted help in getting my first iphone setup and a bit more in getting my Android setup but using a touch screen device is far from being difficult for the folks that I know as well as don't know.

To answer your question as to how a totally blind or partially sighted person uses the touch screens, we use our fingers to navigate around the screen and locate the various items that we wish to activate and then double tap them to activate them. Yes, my first touch screen was a bit of a challenge but now I would rather have a touch screen phone than a physical key board. I do use blue tooth keyboards with my various touch screen devices but that is more out of convenience rather than necessity. Of course I have always been a very inquisitive indevisual. Just my thoughts! Catch Ya later! de

<wohlggie@...> <mailto:wohlggie@...> <KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 20-Feb-20 10:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.



Gerald



On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?


You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.


Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?



According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.


Gerald



On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,


I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.


https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@...>

To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Hi, all.
My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?
TIA
Lisa
--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@... <mailto:missktlab1217@...>

The thread is ending by itself.  If it doesn't produce new useful information but continues, I'll ask that it end. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Shelly Kane

Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 2:40 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Is there any chance that we could possibly move on from this thread?  It's getting out of hand and I have had over 75 plus messages with this topic.  It's just my take on it.  If the discussion needs to continue, can you possibly change the subject line?  Thanks!

Shelly

On 2/21/2020 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:

You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 

If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 

 

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

Gerald

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

Gerald

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

Surely he isn’t really Christ, is he?

On 21 Feb 2020, at 15:47, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:



Christ Gerald, that’s true of everything, isn’t it?

I’m going to have to replace my flip phone at the end of the year because of 3 g going away. Could someone recommend a inexpensive phone that I can buy? Would appreciate the help. All the information that you can give to me about the phone would be appreciated.

...And I once referred to another Chris on another list by accidentally adding a T to his name as in Chris = Christ.  Until the day he died, he never let me forget it.  What bad hings happen over simple typos.

Gerald,

Lighten up man.

I wasn't around for windows 95, but I did come along during windows 2000, and I remember using windows xp during 3rd grade lol.

Man, I feel so old, although, I think I'm the youngest on this list, I'm 19.

On Feb 21, 2020, at 4:30 PM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

No, I'm not really Christ.  I'm Jewish and find your reference to Christ in this context highly offensive and inappropriate for this list. Don't do it again.  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 3:34 PM, Alex Stone wrote:

Surely he isn’t really Christ, is he?

On 21 Feb 2020, at 15:47, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:



Christ Gerald, that’s true of everything, isn’t it?

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?

 

On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

-- 

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

No, but he can surely try the patience of Jobe.

Surely he isn’t really Christ, is he?



Christ Gerald, that’s true of everything, isn’t it?

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?

On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

Surely he isn’t really Christ, is he?



Christ Gerald, that’s true of everything, isn’t it?

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?

On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

Hi Gerald,

Usually I respect your cynicism, but in this case, I have to disagree.  You are talking a lot about the fact that a smart phone can  crash and you have major problems without speech.  This of course is true, but if I had the amount f money I spent on correcting my old fashion Windows PC with the Microsoft Windows operating system, I could take a month vacation ti Tahiti.

So what is your point?  All things made by human beings can crash for everyone: sighted, blind and even Yogi Bear.

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

-- 

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Is there any chance that we could possibly move on from this thread?  It's getting out of hand and I have had over 75 plus messages with this topic.  It's just my take on it.  If the discussion needs to continue, can you possibly change the subject line?  Thanks!

Shelly

You don't know that.  Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience.  Mix apples and oranges?  If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem? 

If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing.  There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier.  But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone.  And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem. 

 

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products.  If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have.  Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

Gerald

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

Gerald

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...