Yes. Penny, I'd like to sincerely thank you for speaking up about this. Some of us are practicing Christians and I myself, being a practicing Catholic Christian, am one of them and I find that using the name of Jesus as a curse word is extremely offensive. I always try to respect the beliefs of others, even if I may not personally share them, and I try to avoid language which might be considered offensive. I think it would be helpful to please consider this.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/22/2020 6:56 PM, Victor wrote:

I agree with you. Let’s make sure we keep everything respectful.

Victor

On Feb 22, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Penny Golden <pengold2@gmail.com> wrote:

   Some of us take exception to the discussion of Christ that is going on.

I mean, bash each other, or laud each other, but can't we keep references to Christ out of it, maybe?

On Feb 23, 2020, at 12:02 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@outlook.com> wrote:

Yes, the newer iPhones do offer excellent battery life. I'm still using an iPhone 8 and I use it with Apple's smart battery case, which I absolutely love, as I can be at a 100% charge for an entire day, even with streaming audio.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/21/2020 6:46 PM, Carolyn Arnold wrote:
I had that problem with my SE. It was a super phone, and, at least, had more battery life than any flip phone I had, but still...

The 11 is living up to what I heard about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Karim Lakhani
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my iphone!
but the battery drains real fast.
When I'm waiting for transportation it ccan go for hours, if you don't listen to radio and such.
do you use a charging back up?
I had a case with my 5se, but the 7 would be nice if I didn't have to carry back ups.
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the latest and most expensive. You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right. I hadn't thought about that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: chris judge <mailto:chrisjudge1967@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

You don't know that. Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges? If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem?
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing. There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:
Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:
a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.
It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:
That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.


Gerald


On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald


On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:

Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com%2F24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884&;amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf9388eb0f88f4a82bfdd08d7b72843b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637179255865028410&amp;sdata=w9tBUzmus93vFPEfk389VCauWyOMcRJek5X%2Bx%2BWi%2BgY%3D&amp;reserved=0



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

And for all you iPhone users, in all seriousness, how many times have your IPhones crashed? I can state with confidence that I can count the times my Phone has crashed on 1 hand, and this is after almost 11 years of using one.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: February 21, 2020 2:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi Gerald,

Usually I respect your cynicism, but in this case, I have to disagree.  You are talking a lot about the fact that a smart phone can  crash and you have major problems without speech.  This of course is true, but if I had the amount f money I spent on correcting my old fashion Windows PC with the Microsoft Windows operating system, I could take a month vacation ti Tahiti.

So what is your point?  All things made by human beings can crash for everyone: sighted, blind and even Yogi Bear.

On 2/21/2020 7:15 AM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

-- 

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

I had that problem with my SE. It was a super phone, and, at least, had more battery life than any flip phone I had, but still...

The 11 is living up to what I heard about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Karim Lakhani
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my iphone!
but the battery drains real fast.
When I'm waiting for transportation it ccan go for hours, if you don't listen to radio and such.
do you use a charging back up?
I had a case with my 5se, but the 7 would be nice if I didn't have to carry back ups.
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the latest and most expensive. You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right. I hadn't thought about that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: chris judge <mailto:chrisjudge1967@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

You don't know that. Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges? If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem?
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing. There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:
Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:
a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.
It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:
That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> > wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.


Gerald


On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald


On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:

Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com%2F24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884&;amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf9388eb0f88f4a82bfdd08d7b72843b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637179255865028410&amp;sdata=w9tBUzmus93vFPEfk389VCauWyOMcRJek5X%2Bx%2BWi%2BgY%3D&amp;reserved=0



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@frontier.com <mailto:missktlab1217@frontier.com>

Suspect all you want Gerald, but, I am a totally blind user and can use a phone perfectly well without buttons. Just the touchscreen and the Byam buttons on the side and the Sleep light button on the side.

 Diane Bomar

On Feb 20, 2020, at 08:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

Gerald

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

On Feb 22, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Group,

As I recall in this thread, nobody was taking the Lord's name in vain. There was a reference to someone accidentally placing the letter 't' on the end of a fellow whose name was Chris. I had done that accidentally years ago on another list. I playfully referred t that incident to lighten up the rather intense discussion concerning the smart phone usability issue--since it was getting way off topic anyway; I was doing nothing more.

Some of you so-called Christians are a bit thin-skinned if that offended you!
With some of the references in the Bible itself--a few of the Apostles were a bit playful. I can think of Peter himself who seemed to be playing dumb at times with Jesus.

On 2/22/2020 7:17 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Yes. Penny, I'd like to sincerely thank you for speaking up about this. Some of us are practicing Christians and I myself, being a practicing Catholic Christian, am one of them and I find that using the name of Jesus as a curse word is extremely offensive. I always try to respect the beliefs of others, even if I may not personally share them, and I try to avoid language which might be considered offensive. I think it would be helpful to please consider this.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/22/2020 6:56 PM, Victor wrote:
I agree with you. Let’s make sure we keep everything respectful.

Victor

On Feb 22, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Penny Golden <pengold2@gmail.com> wrote:

 Some of us take exception to the discussion of Christ that is going on.

I mean, bash each other, or laud each other, but can't we keep references to Christ out of it, maybe?

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Yes. Penny, I'd like to sincerely thank you for speaking up about this. Some of us are practicing Christians and I myself, being a practicing Catholic Christian, am one of them and I find that using the name of Jesus as a curse word is extremely offensive. I always try to respect the beliefs of others, even if I may not personally share them, and I try to avoid language which might be considered offensive. I think it would be helpful to please consider this.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/22/2020 6:56 PM, Victor wrote:

I agree with you. Let’s make sure we keep everything respectful.

Victor

On Feb 22, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Penny Golden <pengold2@gmail.com> wrote:

   Some of us take exception to the discussion of Christ that is going on.

I mean, bash each other, or laud each other, but can't we keep references to Christ out of it, maybe?

Hi Gerald,
Probably my mistake, sometimes my ole voice synth which I am using with nvda says five instead of v; this is because the voice synth is interpreting the letter v as roman numeral five.
I know I neeed a more accurate synth, but I do like the voice.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-22-20 1:16 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, a little clarification. There is no such model as the Alcatel Flip Go 5. There is a model called the Alcatel Flip Go V, and perhaps somebody assumed that the "V" was actually the Roman numeral for 5. But nowhere is this phone referred to as the Alcatel Flip Go 5. I suspect that the "V" actually stands for Verizon, because this phone is apparently designed for Verizon Wireless and also works with US Cellular. It apparently does not work with T Mobile, which uses a different technology than T Mobile. The only Alcatel phone listed for T Mobile is the Flip Go 3. Judging from the product description, it sounds that the Flip Go V is essentially similar in features to the Go Flip 3, although there is no mention of the voice guidance feature. Both models sell for about $100.


Gerald



On 2/22/2020 1:50 PM, Monte Single wrote:

Yes, this is the first I have hear of the alcatel go 5. But that's
what consumer technology is all about; the latest and the greatest.
The fact that you have a device that works fine for you is irrelevant.
The only way to generate new sales is with new products. Sometimes
it's the same old thing with a new label or costume.
Buy, buy, buy.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: February-22-20 9:43 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I have never heard of a go 5 before this one. I always heard of the
go 3, and I thought that was the newest one. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

What is the difference between the alcatel go 3 and go 5.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of jan howells via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 6:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Yesterday, my brother bought me an Alcatel Go 5 cell phone nn his
plan. I will get it at Easter time.

Jan