Hey Carolyn.

Here you go.
The BlindShell Classic Accessible Feature Cell Phone, a Smart
Alternative Steve Kelley Imagine for a moment a cell phone that
combined the best features of a smartphone with the best features of a
flip phone. You know, a dial pad you can actually feel, with widely
spaced buttons, and, for those of us with low vision, bold, large
print numbers. How about some serious large print on the display for
text and menu items? And text-to-speech everywhere, without having to
drill down through the settings to find it? While we're creating this
wish list, let's add a user guide that's built right in, so you don't
have to first complete a tutorial on using the Web to find and read
the user guide on some remote website.now we're really dreaming big here aren't we?
Not at all! Such a phone arrived from Europe mid-November 2019. It's
called BlindShell Classic, and currently works with GSM network
providers like T-Mobile andAT&T.
One of the things you'll notice very quickly about this phone is that
it functions like it was built from the ground up with user
accessibility in mind, not as a feature that was bolted on as an
afterthought. When you unbox the phone, install the battery, and long
press the Back button, the phone starts with text-to-speech and an
interactive tutorial. The tutorial is quick and gives new users the
opportunity to learn what each button on the phone does. While
exploring the phone, you'll discover that out of the box, the
BlindShell offers 4 female voices and 3 male voices in the Settings >
Sounds > Voice Output menus. In addition to 10 voices, there are 4
levels of speech intonation and 5 levels of voice rates, to make speech output very customizable.
Physical Dimensions and Orientation
The phone is 5.3 by 2.3 by 0.5 inches and is what some might call a
"candy-bar style" phone, with the keypad beneath the 2.8 inch color screen.
Centered above the screen you will find the speaker. The keyboard is a
very standard layout of 4 rows of 3 numbers, with 5 keys above the
number pad. In the center of these keysis a square directional pad
that contains 5 button functions-center, left, right, up and down. To
each side of the center directional square are two buttons, one above
the other. On the left, the top button is Volume Down with a short
press, and Voice Control and Dictation using a long press. Beneath
that is the Confirm button, also used for answering a call. To the
right, the top button is Volume Up with a short press, and Voice
Control and Dictation with a long press. Below this is the Back
button, which navigates back through menu levels, or deletes a text
entry with a short press. If the phone is turned off, a long press on
the Back button will turn the phone on. When the phone is on, a long press of the Back button will navigate right to the Call menu.
The back of the phone contains a 2-megapixel camera with a flashlight,
a speaker grill and a tactile button that is a speed dial button,
called Emergency/S.O.S., that can be associated with a contact for
quick use in an emergency. At the top edge of the phone is a standard
micro USB input for charging and file transfer and a headphone jack.
On the bottom edge you'll find the microphone and charging port for
use with the included charging cradle.
Calling Made Simple
Although the BlindShell offers a range of functions, at its most basic
the device can quickly make calls using either the dial pad or voice
control. At virtually anywhere on the menu, a long press on either the
top left Volume Down button or the top right Volume Up button will get
the Voice Control prompt, "I listen after a beep." After the beep, you
might say, "Call xxx-xxx-xxxx," or "Call [a name listed in contacts]."
A second or two later, the phone says "Dialing," or requires a press
of the Confirm button to start the call. It's that simple! Of course,
pressing Confirm on the Call menu and dialing the number on the spacious dial pad is also an option.
With a list price of $349 from A T Guys or LS&S, it's certainly good
news to know that placing a call with the BlindShell Classic is easy
enough, but what about other functions? The BlindShell includes
features you might expect, like email, messaging, alarms, and a
calendar, to name a few. It also has some really innovative features
built in, like Internet radio and FM radio in the More Applications >
Media menu, Weather in the More Applications > Tools menu, and GPS
Localization, Object Tagging, and Color Indicator, all in the More Applications > Vision Aids menu.
The BlindShell Menu
Before digging deeper into a couple of these applications, let's
explore the navigation on the BlindShell. Using the Center Left and
Center Right buttons will move you through the top level menu items:
. Call
. Messages
. Contacts
. More Aplications
. Settings
. Status Information
. Manual
. Notifications
. Turn Off the Phone
Each menu item is numbered, and when it is read, you hear both its
number and the number of menu items in that level. So, for example,
the second item in the main menu is Messages. When we get to the
Messages menu item we hear, "Messages, two of nine." As a shortucut,
to jump to any menu item,simply press its number. So, pressing 2 when
you're on the main menu will open the Messages menu item.
You can also select a menu item by pressing the Confirm button or the
Center button. Doing so will open the submenu for that item. Like the
main menu, once in a submenu, the Left Center and Right Center buttons
move through the menu items. Continuing to press either button will
move through the menu again continuously. When in a submenu, the Back
button will move back up a menu level. So, in the submenu for
Messages, the Right Center and Left Center buttons will move through
the six Messages submenu items, and pressing the Back button will
return navigation to the main menu item, Messages.
While this menu structure is linear, it did take some practice to use,
because many menu items had multiple submenus. Again, a long press of
the Back button returns focus to Call in the main menu. A long press
on either the Volume Up or Volume Down button will open the Voice
Control where you can say, "Open." followed by whatever menu item you'd like to open.
For new users, a great place to begin is with the Manual from the main menu.
The Manual menu contains the Interactive Tutorial which the phone
automatically begins the first time it is turned on, and other menu
items including User Guide, Getting Started, Operating the Phone,
Safety Information, and more. Navigating through these menu items and
their submenus will give you plenty of practice with menu navigation
along with comprehensive information about all the features of the
phone and the many included applications. BlindShell Functions (menu
item 4), provides detailed information about the many applications.
Two Cents About Text Size
One observation here about the large print text on the display. In
Settings

Display > Text Size > there are only two settings, Normal Text Size
and

Huge Text Size. With Huge Text Size selected, the text on menu items
was approximately the size of newsprint headlines. When opening a
screen full of text in the manual, the text size remained bold, but
smaller. Of course, all the text on the screen was read as soon as it
opened, but there was no way to magnify the text. As far as the option
of Huge Text Size, I wondered, "Huge" compared to what? "Larger Text,"
or "Largest Text," might be a more accurate label here.
BlindShell Functions
For many users, having a tactile number pad and navigational buttons
will make this phone easier to use than a conventional touchscreen
smartphone, with perhaps one notable exception: the need to type in
text using the number pad, a skill many of us have forgotten or never
learned in the first place. This issue aside, BlindShell offers a
great deal of functionality. In the More Applications menu, you'll
find a range of applications that make the BlindShell every bit as
useful as a touchscreen smartphone. In addition to common applications
like Email, Messaging, Calendar, Alarms, Timer, Stopwatch, Voice
Recorder, Calculator, Weather, and Dictionary, there are several
applications in the More Applications > Vision Aids menu that are
worth mentioning. The Color Indicator is a handy color identifier.
Hold the camera over an item and press the Confirm button to hear the
color described. It seemed the accuracy of the Color Indicator was
about 50%, probably due to the limitations of the 2-megapixel camera.
For the casual user, having this application built into the phone is a
convenient feature, but if you need more accurate results, a separate, stand-alone color identifier is a better choice.
The Localization application is a very simple GPS application that
will give you the nearest address. Select Localization from the menu
and the phone responds, "Loading." A moment later the nearest address
is provided. Using the Localization application indoors yielded poor
results beginning with the notice, "Warning the obtained results may
be inaccurate. For better results try again in an open outdoor area."
Once outside, the results were indeed more accurate and useful.
The last Vision Aid item is Object Tagging. This application works
with QR codes printed on adhesive sheets available for purchase from
the BlindShell retailer. Peel off one of the codes, which is about a
half-inch square, stick it on the object to be labeled, and record an associated voice label.
The voice label will be read each time you open the application,
select Read Tags, and scan the code. This is a really handy
application to have installed on the phone, and very simple to use.
Tags can be edited and reused for different items.
Kudos on Voice Control Dictation
One of the really outstanding features of the BlindShell Classic is
the accuracy and performance of the dictation function, both on WiFi
and cellular data at 4G. With nearly 100-percent accuracy, the correct
menu items were opened by using a long press of the left or right
Voice Control buttons and speaking the selection. Anywhere an edit
field was available-for contacts, in a calendar entry, for dialing the
phone-voice dictation worked very well. In addition, in the Note
application, using WiFi, dictation was very accurate, responded to
commands such as, "new paragraph," and accepted relatively long dictations.
More Functions
Another function worth highlighting is the Internet Radio, found in
the More Applications > Media menu. Internet Radio submenus included
Popular Stations, Categories, Search, Favorites, and more. Although
the Categories menu contained a total of 96 categories, including all
types of music genres, sports radio, talk radio, etc., it was a bit
disappointing not to find a category and listing for radio reading services.
Also in the More Applications > Media submenu are Book Reader and Camera.
The Book Reader application is somewhat limited because it doesn't
support Bookshare directly. Text files may be transferred using a USB
cable quite easily. It was easy to download a title from Project
Gutenberg then transfer and play it using the Book Reader. The Book
Reader will set bookmarks and resume reading from where you left off.
Also, any book or podcast available as an MP3 file can be transferred
to the Music Player directory, and played with the Music Player located in the More Applications > Media submenu.
The camera on the BlindShell Classic is simply not one of its strong points.
It is a 2 megapixel camera, and images may be saved, viewed, and
transferred using a USB cable. There is no way to use the camera as a
magnifier or to zoom in on pictures.
The BlindShell Classic comes with 4 GB of internal storage so there is
plenty of room for music, podcasts, and books. The micro SD slot will
hold up to an additional 32GBof storage if you need more.
Display Options
As mentioned earlier, text-to-speech is activated at start-up and can
be controlled using the Volume Up or Down buttons. If you have some
usable vision, there are several settings in the Settings > Display
submenu that can enhance the display, including: Brightness; Color
Scheme; and Main Menu Style, in addition to the Text Size mentioned
earlier. The menu style offers the options of Only Text, Icons Only,
or Icons and Text. If you have opted for huge text, these menu items
are bold and fill the screen. Alternative color schemes include: White
on Black; Black on White; White on Blue; and Black on Yellow, with
bold text and good contrast. The Screen Brightness menu contains 6
levels of brightness and the ability to fully dim the screen so it shows nothing.
The BlindShell Classic has been available in Europe for several years
and is only now coming to the US The phone is a great option for those
looking for a completely accessible phone with tactile number pad and
buttons and a consistent, easy to use menu system. Overall
accessibility and usability are excellent on the BlindShell Classic.
If you're looking for an excellent feature phone without a touchscreen, the BlindShell is a great option.
Product Information
Product: BlindShell Classic
Manufacturer: BlindShell
Price: $399 (from manufacturer) $349 (from A T Guys and LS&S This
article is made possible in part by generous funding from the James H.
and Alice Teubert Charitable Trust, Huntington, West Virginia.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Carolyn Arnold
Sent: February 22, 2020 12:27 PM
To: Tech Talk <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] The Blind Shell.

Would the person who sent that article about the Blind Shell please
send it again, either to the list or to:

4carolyna@...

I copied it to send to a friend, had her email ready, phone rang, I
hit Send, night time came, I closed computer, away went the copy.
Also, I delete everything last thing. I would appreciate it very much,
if it could be sent back.

Hey Carolyn.

Here you go.
The BlindShell Classic Accessible Feature Cell Phone, a Smart Alternative
Steve Kelley
Imagine for a moment a cell phone that combined the best features of a
smartphone with the best features of a flip phone. You know, a dial pad you
can actually feel, with widely spaced buttons, and, for those of us with low
vision, bold, large print numbers. How about some serious large print on the
display for text and menu items? And text-to-speech everywhere, without
having to drill down through the settings to find it? While we're creating
this wish list, let's add a user guide that's built right in, so you don't
have to first complete a tutorial on using the Web to find and read the user
guide on some remote website.now we're really dreaming big here aren't we?
Not at all! Such a phone arrived from Europe mid-November 2019. It's called
BlindShell Classic, and currently works with GSM network providers like
T-Mobile andAT&T.
One of the things you'll notice very quickly about this phone is that it
functions like it was built from the ground up with user accessibility in
mind, not as a feature that was bolted on as an afterthought. When you unbox
the phone, install the battery, and long press the Back button, the phone
starts with text-to-speech and an interactive tutorial. The tutorial is
quick and gives new users the opportunity to learn what each button on the
phone does. While exploring the phone, you'll discover that out of the box,
the BlindShell offers 4 female voices and 3 male voices in the Settings >
Sounds > Voice Output menus. In addition to 10 voices, there are 4 levels of
speech intonation and 5 levels of voice rates, to make speech output very
customizable.
Physical Dimensions and Orientation
The phone is 5.3 by 2.3 by 0.5 inches and is what some might call a
"candy-bar style" phone, with the keypad beneath the 2.8 inch color screen.
Centered above the screen you will find the speaker. The keyboard is a very
standard layout of 4 rows of 3 numbers, with 5 keys above the number pad. In
the center of these keysis a square directional pad that contains 5 button
functions-center, left, right, up and down. To each side of the center
directional square are two buttons, one above the other. On the left, the
top button is Volume Down with a short press, and Voice Control and
Dictation using a long press. Beneath that is the Confirm button, also used
for answering a call. To the right, the top button is Volume Up with a short
press, and Voice Control and Dictation with a long press. Below this is the
Back button, which navigates back through menu levels, or deletes a text
entry with a short press. If the phone is turned off, a long press on the
Back button will turn the phone on. When the phone is on, a long press of
the Back button will navigate right to the Call menu.
The back of the phone contains a 2-megapixel camera with a flashlight, a
speaker grill and a tactile button that is a speed dial button, called
Emergency/S.O.S., that can be associated with a contact for quick use in an
emergency. At the top edge of the phone is a standard micro USB input for
charging and file transfer and a headphone jack. On the bottom edge you'll
find the microphone and charging port for use with the included charging
cradle.
Calling Made Simple
Although the BlindShell offers a range of functions, at its most basic the
device can quickly make calls using either the dial pad or voice control. At
virtually anywhere on the menu, a long press on either the top left Volume
Down button or the top right Volume Up button will get the Voice Control
prompt, "I listen after a beep." After the beep, you might say, "Call
xxx-xxx-xxxx," or "Call [a name listed in contacts]." A second or two later,
the phone says "Dialing," or requires a press of the Confirm button to start
the call. It's that simple! Of course, pressing Confirm on the Call menu and
dialing the number on the spacious dial pad is also an option.
With a list price of $349 from A T Guys or LS&S, it's certainly good news to
know that placing a call with the BlindShell Classic is easy enough, but
what about other functions? The BlindShell includes features you might
expect, like email, messaging, alarms, and a calendar, to name a few. It
also has some really innovative features built in, like Internet radio and
FM radio in the More Applications > Media menu, Weather in the More
Applications > Tools menu, and GPS Localization, Object Tagging, and Color
Indicator, all in the More Applications > Vision Aids menu.
The BlindShell Menu
Before digging deeper into a couple of these applications, let's explore the
navigation on the BlindShell. Using the Center Left and Center Right buttons
will move you through the top level menu items:
. Call
. Messages
. Contacts
. More Aplications
. Settings
. Status Information
. Manual
. Notifications
. Turn Off the Phone
Each menu item is numbered, and when it is read, you hear both its number
and the number of menu items in that level. So, for example, the second item
in the main menu is Messages. When we get to the Messages menu item we hear,
"Messages, two of nine." As a shortucut, to jump to any menu item,simply
press its number. So, pressing 2 when you're on the main menu will open the
Messages menu item.
You can also select a menu item by pressing the Confirm button or the Center
button. Doing so will open the submenu for that item. Like the main menu,
once in a submenu, the Left Center and Right Center buttons move through the
menu items. Continuing to press either button will move through the menu
again continuously. When in a submenu, the Back button will move back up a
menu level. So, in the submenu for Messages, the Right Center and Left
Center buttons will move through the six Messages submenu items, and
pressing the Back button will return navigation to the main menu item,
Messages.
While this menu structure is linear, it did take some practice to use,
because many menu items had multiple submenus. Again, a long press of the
Back button returns focus to Call in the main menu. A long press on either
the Volume Up or Volume Down button will open the Voice Control where you
can say, "Open." followed by whatever menu item you'd like to open.
For new users, a great place to begin is with the Manual from the main menu.
The Manual menu contains the Interactive Tutorial which the phone
automatically begins the first time it is turned on, and other menu items
including User Guide, Getting Started, Operating the Phone, Safety
Information, and more. Navigating through these menu items and their
submenus will give you plenty of practice with menu navigation along with
comprehensive information about all the features of the phone and the many
included applications. BlindShell Functions (menu item 4), provides detailed
information about the many applications.
Two Cents About Text Size
One observation here about the large print text on the display. In Settings

Display > Text Size > there are only two settings, Normal Text Size and

Huge Text Size. With Huge Text Size selected, the text on menu items was
approximately the size of newsprint headlines. When opening a screen full of
text in the manual, the text size remained bold, but smaller. Of course, all
the text on the screen was read as soon as it opened, but there was no way
to magnify the text. As far as the option of Huge Text Size, I wondered,
"Huge" compared to what? "Larger Text," or "Largest Text," might be a more
accurate label here.
BlindShell Functions
For many users, having a tactile number pad and navigational buttons will
make this phone easier to use than a conventional touchscreen smartphone,
with perhaps one notable exception: the need to type in text using the
number pad, a skill many of us have forgotten or never learned in the first
place. This issue aside, BlindShell offers a great deal of functionality. In
the More Applications menu, you'll find a range of applications that make
the BlindShell every bit as useful as a touchscreen smartphone. In addition
to common applications like Email, Messaging, Calendar, Alarms, Timer,
Stopwatch, Voice Recorder, Calculator, Weather, and Dictionary, there are
several applications in the More Applications > Vision Aids menu that are
worth mentioning. The Color Indicator is a handy color identifier. Hold the
camera over an item and press the Confirm button to hear the color
described. It seemed the accuracy of the Color Indicator was about 50%,
probably due to the limitations of the 2-megapixel camera. For the casual
user, having this application built into the phone is a convenient feature,
but if you need more accurate results, a separate, stand-alone color
identifier is a better choice.
The Localization application is a very simple GPS application that will give
you the nearest address. Select Localization from the menu and the phone
responds, "Loading." A moment later the nearest address is provided. Using
the Localization application indoors yielded poor results beginning with the
notice, "Warning the obtained results may be inaccurate. For better results
try again in an open outdoor area." Once outside, the results were indeed
more accurate and useful.
The last Vision Aid item is Object Tagging. This application works with QR
codes printed on adhesive sheets available for purchase from the BlindShell
retailer. Peel off one of the codes, which is about a half-inch square,
stick it on the object to be labeled, and record an associated voice label.
The voice label will be read each time you open the application, select Read
Tags, and scan the code. This is a really handy application to have
installed on the phone, and very simple to use. Tags can be edited and
reused for different items.
Kudos on Voice Control Dictation
One of the really outstanding features of the BlindShell Classic is the
accuracy and performance of the dictation function, both on WiFi and
cellular data at 4G. With nearly 100-percent accuracy, the correct menu
items were opened by using a long press of the left or right Voice Control
buttons and speaking the selection. Anywhere an edit field was available-for
contacts, in a calendar entry, for dialing the phone-voice dictation worked
very well. In addition, in the Note application, using WiFi, dictation was
very accurate, responded to commands such as, "new paragraph," and accepted
relatively long dictations.
More Functions
Another function worth highlighting is the Internet Radio, found in the More
Applications > Media menu. Internet Radio submenus included Popular
Stations, Categories, Search, Favorites, and more. Although the Categories
menu contained a total of 96 categories, including all types of music
genres, sports radio, talk radio, etc., it was a bit disappointing not to
find a category and listing for radio reading services.
Also in the More Applications > Media submenu are Book Reader and Camera.
The Book Reader application is somewhat limited because it doesn't support
Bookshare directly. Text files may be transferred using a USB cable quite
easily. It was easy to download a title from Project Gutenberg then transfer
and play it using the Book Reader. The Book Reader will set bookmarks and
resume reading from where you left off. Also, any book or podcast available
as an MP3 file can be transferred to the Music Player directory, and played
with the Music Player located in the More Applications > Media submenu.
The camera on the BlindShell Classic is simply not one of its strong points.
It is a 2 megapixel camera, and images may be saved, viewed, and transferred
using a USB cable. There is no way to use the camera as a magnifier or to
zoom in on pictures.
The BlindShell Classic comes with 4 GB of internal storage so there is
plenty of room for music, podcasts, and books. The micro SD slot will hold
up to an additional 32GBof storage if you need more.
Display Options
As mentioned earlier, text-to-speech is activated at start-up and can be
controlled using the Volume Up or Down buttons. If you have some usable
vision, there are several settings in the Settings > Display submenu that
can enhance the display, including: Brightness; Color Scheme; and Main Menu
Style, in addition to the Text Size mentioned earlier. The menu style offers
the options of Only Text, Icons Only, or Icons and Text. If you have opted
for huge text, these menu items are bold and fill the screen. Alternative
color schemes include: White on Black; Black on White; White on Blue; and
Black on Yellow, with bold text and good contrast. The Screen Brightness
menu contains 6 levels of brightness and the ability to fully dim the screen
so it shows nothing.
The BlindShell Classic has been available in Europe for several years and is
only now coming to the US The phone is a great option for those looking for
a completely accessible phone with tactile number pad and buttons and a
consistent, easy to use menu system. Overall accessibility and usability are
excellent on the BlindShell Classic. If you're looking for an excellent
feature phone without a touchscreen, the BlindShell is a great option.
Product Information
Product: BlindShell Classic
Manufacturer: BlindShell
Price: $399 (from manufacturer) $349 (from A T Guys and LS&S
This article is made possible in part by generous funding from the James H.
and Alice Teubert Charitable Trust, Huntington, West Virginia.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carolyn
Arnold
Sent: February 22, 2020 12:27 PM
To: Tech Talk <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] The Blind Shell.

Would the person who sent that article about the Blind Shell please send it
again, either to the list or to:

4carolyna@...

I copied it to send to a friend, had her email ready, phone rang, I hit
Send, night time came, I closed computer, away went the copy. Also, I delete
everything last thing. I would appreciate it very much, if it could be sent
back.

That's okay, I recognize those kinds of mistakes.  Mine interprets the roman numeral for 6, which is v I, as Virgin Islands.  I separated the v and the I so they would be pronounced.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Monte Single
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 2:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi Gerald,
Probably my mistake, sometimes my ole voice synth which I am using with nvda says five instead of v;  this is because the voice synth is interpreting the letter v as roman numeral five.
I know I neeed  a more accurate synth, but I do like the voice.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-22-20 1:16 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, a little clarification.  There is no such model as the Alcatel Flip Go 5.  There is a model called the Alcatel Flip Go V, and perhaps somebody assumed that the "V" was actually the Roman numeral for 5.  But nowhere is this phone referred to as the Alcatel Flip Go 5.  I suspect that the "V" actually stands for Verizon, because this phone is apparently designed for Verizon Wireless and also works with US Cellular.  It apparently does not work with T Mobile, which uses a different technology than T Mobile.  The only Alcatel phone listed for T Mobile is the Flip Go 3.  Judging from the product description, it sounds that the Flip Go V is essentially similar in features to the Go Flip 3, although there is no mention of the voice guidance feature. Both models sell for about $100.


Gerald



On 2/22/2020 1:50 PM, Monte Single wrote:

Yes, this is the first I have hear of the alcatel go 5.  But that's
what consumer technology is all about;  the latest and the greatest.
The fact that you have a device that works fine for you is irrelevant.
The only way to generate new sales is with new products. Sometimes
it's the same old  thing with a new label or costume.
Buy, buy, buy.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: February-22-20 9:43 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I have never heard of a go 5 before this one.  I always heard of the
go 3, and I thought that was the newest one.  Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

What is the difference between the alcatel go 3 and go 5.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of jan howells via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 6:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Yesterday, my brother bought me an Alcatel Go 5 cell phone nn his
plan.  I will get it at Easter time.

Jan

Yes, this is the first I have hear of the alcatel go 5. But that's
what consumer technology is all about; the latest and the greatest.
The fact that you have a device that works fine for you is irrelevant.
The only way to generate new sales is with new products. Sometimes
it's the same old thing with a new label or costume.
Buy, buy, buy.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: February-22-20 9:43 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I have never heard of a go 5 before this one. I always heard of the
go 3, and I thought that was the newest one. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

What is the difference between the alcatel go 3 and go 5.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of jan howells via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 6:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Yesterday, my brother bought me an Alcatel Go 5 cell phone nn his
plan. I will get it at Easter time.

Jan

I have the Kyocera Dura and like it. It isn't cheap but it is very
accessible and full featured.

BOB SOUTAR.ONWARD THRU THE FOG


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Terry Olandese
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 5:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] What is a good flip phone to buy?

I'm going to have to replace my flip phone at the end of the year because of
3 g going away. Could someone recommend a inexpensive phone that I can buy?
Would appreciate the help. All the information that you can give to me about
the phone would be appreciated.

Yes, this is the first I have hear of the alcatel go 5. But that's what
consumer technology is all about; the latest and the greatest. The fact
that you have a device that works fine for you is irrelevant.
The only way to generate new sales is with new products. Sometimes it's the
same old thing with a new label or costume.
Buy, buy, buy.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Pamela Dominguez
Sent: February-22-20 9:43 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I have never heard of a go 5 before this one. I always heard of the go 3,
and I thought that was the newest one. Pam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

What is the difference between the alcatel go 3 and go 5.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
jan howells via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 6:32 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Yesterday, my brother bought me an Alcatel Go 5 cell phone nn his plan. I
will get it at Easter time.

Jan

On 23 Feb 2020, at 12:19, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:

I did say, Christ Gerald, to get this going. I apologize if it offended anyone.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: February 22, 2020 10:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] References to Christ.

Hi Group,

As I recall in this thread, nobody was taking the Lord's name in vain. There was a reference to someone accidentally placing the letter 't' on the end of a fellow whose name was Chris. I had done that accidentally years ago on another list. I playfully referred t that incident to lighten up the rather intense discussion concerning the smart phone usability issue--since it was getting way off topic anyway; I was doing nothing more.

Some of you so-called Christians are a bit thin-skinned if that offended you!
With some of the references in the Bible itself--a few of the Apostles were a bit playful. I can think of Peter himself who seemed to be playing dumb at times with Jesus.

On 2/22/2020 7:17 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Yes. Penny, I'd like to sincerely thank you for speaking up about
this. Some of us are practicing Christians and I myself, being a
practicing Catholic Christian, am one of them and I find that using
the name of Jesus as a curse word is extremely offensive. I always try
to respect the beliefs of others, even if I may not personally share
them, and I try to avoid language which might be considered offensive.
I think it would be helpful to please consider this.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/22/2020 6:56 PM, Victor wrote:
I agree with you. Let’s make sure we keep everything respectful.

Victor

On Feb 22, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Penny Golden <pengold2@...> wrote:

 Some of us take exception to the discussion of Christ that is
going on.

I mean, bash each other, or laud each other, but can't we keep
references to Christ out of it, maybe?

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Gerald,

I can honestly sympathize with your skepticism. When I was beginning to hear about VoiceOver on the iPhone I could not imagine how a blind person could possibly use a flat touch screen. However, like many others on this list I have become extremely proficient in using the iPhone and I have no usable vision. I have set up many iPhones right out of the box without any sighted assistance, with only VoiceOver to tell me what is on the screen. In fact, I have done the same with Android devices, including Fire tablets from Amazon. Being a former assistive technology trainer for 25 years I have also spent the last few years in my previous role training other blind people how to use these devices. I would recommend that you find someone who is local to you who could show you an iPhone with VoiceOver to introduce you to some basic concepts. This helped me to get started as a friend came to visit me where I worked with her iPhone to give me a quick introduction. I would also recommend that you visit www.applevis.com and read some of the guides on the site's section for new users. There are also many audio tutorials on that site, as well. Finally, I would recommend that you consider visiting a local Apple store. Many Apple stores hire sales reps who are knowledgeable regarding VoiceOver and accessibility, in general.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

Suspect all you want Gerald, but, I am a totally blind user and can use a phone perfectly well without buttons. Just the touchscreen and the Byam buttons on the side and the Sleep light button on the side.

 Diane Bomar

On Feb 20, 2020, at 08:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

Gerald

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

Yes. Penny, I'd like to sincerely thank you for speaking up about
this. Some of us are practicing Christians and I myself, being a
practicing Catholic Christian, am one of them and I find that using
the name of Jesus as a curse word is extremely offensive. I always try
to respect the beliefs of others, even if I may not personally share
them, and I try to avoid language which might be considered offensive.
I think it would be helpful to please consider this.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/22/2020 6:56 PM, Victor wrote:

I agree with you. Let’s make sure we keep everything respectful.

Victor

On Feb 22, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Penny Golden <pengold2@...> wrote:

 Some of us take exception to the discussion of Christ that is
going on.

I mean, bash each other, or laud each other, but can't we keep
references to Christ out of it, maybe?

I thought that story about Chris was great.  That was not a curse.  It is worth remembering.  It made me laugh.  I was not offended by that.  I was about someone using His Name with Gerald.  Sorry!

I had that problem with my SE. It was a super phone, and, at least, had more battery life than any flip phone I had, but still...

The 11 is living up to what I heard about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Karim Lakhani
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my iphone!
but the battery drains real fast.
When I'm waiting for transportation it ccan go for hours, if you don't listen to radio and such.
do you use a charging back up?
I had a case with my 5se, but the 7 would be nice if I didn't have to carry back ups.


From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Loy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the latest and most expensive. You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right. I hadn't thought about that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: chris judge <mailto:chrisjudge1967@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

You don't know that. Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges? If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem?
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing. There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart
phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to
resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with
oraanges. (pun intended)

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:
Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:
a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.
It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:
That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@... <mailto:bwaylimited@...> > wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.


Gerald


On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald


On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:

Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.


https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizm
odo.com%2F24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841
791884&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf9388eb0f88f4a82bfdd08d7b72843b8%7C84df9e
7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637179255865028410&amp;sdata=w9tB
Uzmus93vFPEfk389VCauWyOMcRJek5X%2Bx%2BWi%2BgY%3D&amp;reserved=0



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@...>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@... <mailto:missktlab1217@...>

Yes. Penny, I'd like to sincerely thank you for speaking up about this. Some of us are practicing Christians and I myself, being a practicing Catholic Christian, am one of them and I find that using the name of Jesus as a curse word is extremely offensive. I always try to respect the beliefs of others, even if I may not personally share them, and I try to avoid language which might be considered offensive. I think it would be helpful to please consider this.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/22/2020 6:56 PM, Victor wrote:

I agree with you. Let’s make sure we keep everything respectful.

Victor

On Feb 22, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Penny Golden <pengold2@...> wrote:

   Some of us take exception to the discussion of Christ that is going on.

I mean, bash each other, or laud each other, but can't we keep references to Christ out of it, maybe?

On Feb 23, 2020, at 12:02 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Yes, the newer iPhones do offer excellent battery life. I'm still using an iPhone 8 and I use it with Apple's smart battery case, which I absolutely love, as I can be at a 100% charge for an entire day, even with streaming audio.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/21/2020 6:46 PM, Carolyn Arnold wrote:
I had that problem with my SE. It was a super phone, and, at least, had more battery life than any flip phone I had, but still...

The 11 is living up to what I heard about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Karim Lakhani
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my iphone!
but the battery drains real fast.
When I'm waiting for transportation it ccan go for hours, if you don't listen to radio and such.
do you use a charging back up?
I had a case with my 5se, but the 7 would be nice if I didn't have to carry back ups.
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the latest and most expensive. You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right. I hadn't thought about that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: chris judge <mailto:chrisjudge1967@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

You don't know that. Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges? If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem?
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing. There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:
Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:
a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.
It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:
That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@... <mailto:bwaylimited@...> > wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.


Gerald


On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald


On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:

Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com%2F24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884&;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf9388eb0f88f4a82bfdd08d7b72843b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637179255865028410&amp;sdata=w9tBUzmus93vFPEfk389VCauWyOMcRJek5X%2Bx%2BWi%2BgY%3D&amp;reserved=0



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@...>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@... <mailto:missktlab1217@...>

And for all you iPhone users, in all seriousness, how many times have your IPhones crashed? I can state with confidence that I can count the times my Phone has crashed on 1 hand, and this is after almost 11 years of using one.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: February 21, 2020 2:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi Gerald,

Usually I respect your cynicism, but in this case, I have to disagree.  You are talking a lot about the fact that a smart phone can  crash and you have major problems without speech.  This of course is true, but if I had the amount f money I spent on correcting my old fashion Windows PC with the Microsoft Windows operating system, I could take a month vacation ti Tahiti.

So what is your point?  All things made by human beings can crash for everyone: sighted, blind and even Yogi Bear.

On 2/21/2020 7:15 AM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io wrote:

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!

On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 

https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884

 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lisa Belville

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...

-- 

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

I had that problem with my SE. It was a super phone, and, at least, had more battery life than any flip phone I had, but still...

The 11 is living up to what I heard about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Karim Lakhani
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I love my iphone!
but the battery drains real fast.
When I'm waiting for transportation it ccan go for hours, if you don't listen to radio and such.
do you use a charging back up?
I had a case with my 5se, but the 7 would be nice if I didn't have to carry back ups.
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?
I love my IPhone, if I only used the Seeing AI and Be My Eyes apps it has been worth the investment. You don't have to buy the latest and most expensive. You can purchase one used for under $200.00.----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

That's right. I hadn't thought about that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: chris judge <mailto:chrisjudge1967@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:11 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Actualy, he could read the screen with his smart phone. Another reason to get one. Having an aira agent at your finger tips can solve a lot of issues.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

You don't know that. Interesting how someone with absolutely no experience has so many opinions on something he chooses to know nothing about from a standpoint of practical experience. Mix apples and oranges? If your mother board fails, please explain how having a tactile keyboard makes speech easier to obtain or how it is easier to diagnose the probem?
If your sound card fails and you don't have a USB sound card or a USB headset, explain the same thing. There are certain instances where having a physical keyboard would make solving a problem easier. But these rare instances are no reason not to use a smart phone. And a smart phone with a keypad can certainly fail in ways that make having the keypad useless in trying to solve the problem.

You have followed these lists long enough to know that no matter what you use, some problems require sighted assistance and that is no reason not to use such products. If Windows becomes corrupted and doesn't fully boot and displays an error message, please explain to me how you are going to read it unless you have an optacon, which very few blind people have. Again, begging the question just to support your bias.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun intended)

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:
Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:
a. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
b. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
c. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.
It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech? Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

Gerald


On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:
That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> <main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@... <mailto:bwaylimited@...> > wrote:


I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.


Gerald


On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene
----- Origial Message -----
From: Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <mailto:bwaylimited@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

Gerald


On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:

Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company producing it. From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.

https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com%2F24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884&;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf9388eb0f88f4a82bfdd08d7b72843b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637179255865028410&amp;sdata=w9tBUzmus93vFPEfk389VCauWyOMcRJek5X%2Bx%2BWi%2BgY%3D&amp;reserved=0



Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@...>
To: Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@... <mailto:missktlab1217@...>