Date   

Re: 5g and me

Gene
 

And to a lot of people, it is important. the majority of people don't have enough money that they can just throw it away. Something like forty [percent of Americans, in a survey taken before the pandemic, didn't have enough savings to last for one month if an unexpected misfortune occurred.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/19/nearly-40percent-of-cash-strapped-americans-cant-last-a-month-on-savings.html

Of course, people who can easily afford to throw money away are welcome to do so, but many people who could, still don't want to.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:23 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me

Gene,

Your sstatements about computer useage and hardware may all be correct.
That fact is that another 500 or 1000 dollars to a fairly large per centage of the population, doesn't matter. Tey feel that spending more money will serve them better.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: October 15, 2020 5:07 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me

I've seen others, and I believe you, too, make the future proof argument for buying a more powerful computer than the person's anticipated needs because it will be useful longer because you never know when your needs will change.
I've always thought such arguments were not good ones. For one thing, a lot of people will continue to use computers in about the same ways as now and if they do use them in more demanding ways, those will not likely tax the computer if they buy a computer that isn't just barely powerful enough to do what they want.

Also, technology continues to become more powerful and cost less. So, in five years, the projected reliable life of a computer, you will be able to buy one to meet your needs then for less money than you are paying now. In addition, though it’s a gamble, many computers last more than five years, many significantly more. Every dollar you overspend to be future proofed that you didn't need because your needs didn't change and all the extra power of your computer remains unused is increasingly wasted, the longer your computer lasts.

It makes much more sense to buy a computer that is powerful enough to meet your current needs well if you don't anticipate major changes in how you will use your computer and are reasonably confident that you won't do things in future that will exceed the ability of the computer.

Spending one-thousand dollars to future proof a machine, just in case, maybe you use your machine much differently in the future, when you could spend five hundred dollars today and three hundred dollars in fived or seven or eight years for another machine that you would probably use in similar ways as you do now or not much, is a bad idea.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me



Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my area for
my network. Even without the massive bandwidth, the lower latency itself
will probably result in better quality improvements. Also, all versions of
the IPhone by default include 5g.


On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of the
IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in three years
or so.-
I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares with your own earlier
assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for fixed wireless than
smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where the
ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to me to be
a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones in
particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3 years,
and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan area,
is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use for its
intended purpose.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: 5g and me

Monte Single
 

Gene,

Your sstatements about computer useage and hardware may all be correct.
That fact is that another 500 or 1000 dollars to a fairly large per centage of the population, doesn't matter. Tey feel that spending more money will serve them better.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: October 15, 2020 5:07 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me

I've seen others, and I believe you, too, make the future proof argument for buying a more powerful computer than the person's anticipated needs because it will be useful longer because you never know when your needs will change.
I've always thought such arguments were not good ones. For one thing, a lot of people will continue to use computers in about the same ways as now and if they do use them in more demanding ways, those will not likely tax the computer if they buy a computer that isn't just barely powerful enough to do what they want.

Also, technology continues to become more powerful and cost less. So, in five years, the projected reliable life of a computer, you will be able to buy one to meet your needs then for less money than you are paying now. In addition, though it’s a gamble, many computers last more than five years, many significantly more. Every dollar you overspend to be future proofed that you didn't need because your needs didn't change and all the extra power of your computer remains unused is increasingly wasted, the longer your computer lasts.

It makes much more sense to buy a computer that is powerful enough to meet your current needs well if you don't anticipate major changes in how you will use your computer and are reasonably confident that you won't do things in future that will exceed the ability of the computer.

Spending one-thousand dollars to future proof a machine, just in case, maybe you use your machine much differently in the future, when you could spend five hundred dollars today and three hundred dollars in fived or seven or eight years for another machine that you would probably use in similar ways as you do now or not much, is a bad idea.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me



Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my area for
my network. Even without the massive bandwidth, the lower latency itself
will probably result in better quality improvements. Also, all versions of
the IPhone by default include 5g.


On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of the
IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in three years
or so.-
I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares with your own earlier
assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for fixed wireless than
smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where the
ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to me to be
a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones in
particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3 years,
and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan area,
is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use for its
intended purpose.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: 5g and me

Monte Single
 

I'm using an I core 3 processor on an eight year old machine and it has no problem with websites.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: October 15, 2020 5:27 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me

This isn't correct. Browsers, and other day to day applications even, dramatically have increased ram usage, as well as CPU power. For example, Zoom will only let you blur the background of video if you have a quad core processor. If you buy a dual core as opposed to a quad core processor for example, it will struggle at even the most basic of tasks, and in 5 years, or even in a few years, programas even screen readers will begin to lag. This happened with my core I5 4200M. I thought a dual core was ok, though this was a system gifted to me. Had I been choosing my own system then, I would've gone for an I7, and now, this dual core is not even good enough for browsing. Large websites will freeze it and even when I had it, intensive apps like finereader will lag significantly independant of ram. This is exactly I future proofed my next laptop, with a 1tb SSD, 32 gb of ram, and an r7 4800H processor from AMD, with a 4.2 GHZ boost across all cores. This should be powerful enough to run anything conceivable in the next 5 or so years, except maybe AI workloads.
On 10/15/2020 6:07 AM, Gene wrote:
I've seen others, and I believe you, too, make the future proof
argument for buying a more powerful computer than the person's
anticipated needs because it will be useful longer because you never
know when your needs will change. I've always thought such arguments
were not good ones. For one thing, a lot of people will continue to
use computers in about the same ways as now and if they do use them in
more demanding ways, those will not likely tax the computer if they
buy a computer that isn't just barely powerful enough to do what they
want.

Also, technology continues to become more powerful and cost less. So,
in five years, the projected reliable life of a computer, you will be
able to buy one to meet your needs then for less money than you are
paying now. In addition, though it’s a gamble, many computers last
more than five years, many significantly more. Every dollar you
overspend to be future proofed that you didn't need because your needs
didn't change and all the extra power of your computer remains unused
is increasingly wasted, the longer your computer lasts.

It makes much more sense to buy a computer that is powerful enough to
meet your current needs well if you don't anticipate major changes in
how you will use your computer and are reasonably confident that you
won't do things in future that will exceed the ability of the computer.

Spending one-thousand dollars to future proof a machine, just in case,
maybe you use your machine much differently in the future, when you
could spend five hundred dollars today and three hundred dollars in
fived or seven or eight years for another machine that you would
probably use in similar ways as you do now or not much, is a bad idea.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me



Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my
area for my network. Even without the massive bandwidth, the lower
latency itself will probably result in better quality improvements.
Also, all versions of the IPhone by default include 5g.


On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of
the IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in
three years or so.- I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares
with your own earlier assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for
fixed wireless than smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where
the ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to
me to be a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones
in particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3
years, and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan
area, is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use
for its intended purpose.


Re: 5g and me

Gene
 

I'll add that I did a little looking, and I didn't remember the situation properly. The situation is that older operating systems won't run on new processors, but that Windows 10 can run on processors that are quite old. But a qquestion I don't know anything about is, if a computer is using the traditional BIOS, does that limit Windows 10 in any way that matters?

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 7:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me

And I suspect you spent over a thousand dollars to do what a five hundred
dollar computer can do, less if on sale ormanufacturer refurbished. I don't
know enough technically to discuss some of your technical points, but I'll
say the following:
The advice I see from computer advisors is that for the majority of people,
purchasing a machine somewhere in the five hundred dollar range will meet
their needs. And even if memory requirements have gone up for some
programs, they haven't gone up nearly enough that more than 8GB of ram is
recommended for the majority of users. That is the recommendation and it
has been for years.

A little money here, a little money there, a more powerful processor, and
pretty soon, you are spending five hundred dollars or more than you need to
and gambling that your machine will last far longer than the generally
agreed on length for reliable service, five years. I think it is a very bad
gamble, not because the machine won't last longer, it may well do so, but
you are spending a lot more money now for performance parameters that will
be much less expensive when you replace the computer. And the typical user,
buying a machine around the five hundred dollar range today, unless their
uses change radically, won't have problems that will require a new machine
probably for the life of the current one.

And what about technological changes itself? If you bought a machine in the
Windows 7 days that was future proofed, in your opinion at that time, it
might not run Windows 10 now. My understanding is, and if I'm wrong, I'm
sure I will be corrected, that a lot of Windows 7 machines won't run Windows
10 because Microsoft now requires that different processors be used.

While I don't think that sort of thing will happen if one buys a machine now
for use seven or ten years into the future and are attempting to future
proof it, you are again gambling that newer technologies wohn't come along
that will render your computer less useable, no matter how you future proof
it now.

Gene.
-----Original Message-----
From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 6:27 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me

This isn't correct. Browsers, and other day to day applications even,
dramatically have increased ram usage, as well as CPU power. For
example, Zoom will only let you blur the background of video if you
have a quad core processor. If you buy a dual core as opposed to a quad
core processor for example, it will struggle at even the most basic of
tasks, and in 5 years, or even in a few years, programas even screen
readers will begin to lag. This happened with my core I5 4200M. I
thought a dual core was ok, though this was a system gifted to me. Had I
been choosing my own system then, I would've gone for an I7, and now,
this dual core is not even good enough for browsing. Large websites will
freeze it and even when I had it, intensive apps like finereader will
lag significantly independant of ram. This is exactly I future proofed
my next laptop, with a 1tb SSD, 32 gb of ram, and an r7 4800H processor
from AMD, with a 4.2 GHZ boost across all cores. This should be powerful
enough to run anything conceivable in the next 5 or so years, except
maybe AI workloads.
On 10/15/2020 6:07 AM, Gene wrote:
I've seen others, and I believe you, too, make the future proof argument for buying a more powerful computer than the person's anticipated needs because it will be useful longer because you never know when your needs will change. I've always thought such arguments were not good ones. For one thing, a lot of people will continue to use computers in about the same ways as now and if they do use them in more demanding ways, those will not likely tax the computer if they buy a computer that isn't just barely powerful enough to do what they want.

Also, technology continues to become more powerful and cost less. So, in five years, the projected reliable life of a computer, you will be able to buy one to meet your needs then for less money than you are paying now. In addition, though it’s a gamble, many computers last more than five years, many significantly more. Every dollar you overspend to be future proofed that you didn't need because your needs didn't change and all the extra power of your computer remains unused is increasingly wasted, the longer your computer lasts.

It makes much more sense to buy a computer that is powerful enough to meet your current needs well if you don't anticipate major changes in how you will use your computer and are reasonably confident that you won't do things in future that will exceed the ability of the computer.

Spending one-thousand dollars to future proof a machine, just in case, maybe you use your machine much differently in the future, when you could spend five hundred dollars today and three hundred dollars in fived or seven or eight years for another machine that you would probably use in similar ways as you do now or not much, is a bad idea.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me



Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my area for my network. Even without the massive bandwidth, the lower latency itself will probably result in better quality improvements. Also, all versions of the IPhone by default include 5g.


On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of the IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in three years or so.-
I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares with your own earlier assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for fixed wireless than smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where the ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to me to be a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones in particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3 years, and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan area, is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use for its intended purpose.


Re: Odd changes from m.facebook

David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...>
 

Hi. You might have an easier time if you go to
https://mbasic.facebook.com

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/15/2020 8:28 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Hi, does anyone here noticed of the interface of the site for m.facebook
It was changed though from the usual format and could not able to navigate the other link faster yet they made it simple but, hard to find where you wanting to visit like the Pages, group, etc.






Re: Odd changes to m.facebook

Robert Mendoza
 

Now I see how to navigate to the Groups, pages , etc
you need to go first from the profile at the very top there is saying main menu button and once you hit it it expanded


But, one more thing to ask I could not find the button where you could mentioned

On 10/15/2020 8:30 PM, Robert Mendoza via groups.io wrote:
Hi, does anyone here noticed of the interface of the site for m.facebook
It was changed though from the usual format and could not able to navigate the other link faster yet they made it simple but, hard to find where you wanting to visit like the Pages, group, etc.






Odd changes to m.facebook

Robert Mendoza
 

Hi, does anyone here noticed of the interface of the site for m.facebook
It was changed though from the usual format and could not able to navigate the other link faster yet they made it simple but, hard to find where you wanting to visit like the Pages, group, etc.


Odd changes from m.facebook

Robert Mendoza
 

Hi, does anyone here noticed of the interface of the site for m.facebook
It was changed though from the usual format and could not able to navigate the other link faster yet they made it simple but, hard to find where you wanting to visit like the Pages, group, etc.


Re: 5g and me

Gene
 

And I suspect you spent over a thousand dollars to do what a five hundred dollar computer can do, less if on sale ormanufacturer refurbished. I don't know enough technically to discuss some of your technical points, but I'll say the following:
The advice I see from computer advisors is that for the majority of people, purchasing a machine somewhere in the five hundred dollar range will meet their needs. And even if memory requirements have gone up for some programs, they haven't gone up nearly enough that more than 8GB of ram is recommended for the majority of users. That is the recommendation and it has been for years.

A little money here, a little money there, a more powerful processor, and pretty soon, you are spending five hundred dollars or more than you need to and gambling that your machine will last far longer than the generally agreed on length for reliable service, five years. I think it is a very bad gamble, not because the machine won't last longer, it may well do so, but you are spending a lot more money now for performance parameters that will be much less expensive when you replace the computer. And the typical user, buying a machine around the five hundred dollar range today, unless their uses change radically, won't have problems that will require a new machine probably for the life of the current one.

And what about technological changes itself? If you bought a machine in the Windows 7 days that was future proofed, in your opinion at that time, it might not run Windows 10 now. My understanding is, and if I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected, that a lot of Windows 7 machines won't run Windows 10 because Microsoft now requires that different processors be used.

While I don't think that sort of thing will happen if one buys a machine now for use seven or ten years into the future and are attempting to future proof it, you are again gambling that newer technologies wohn't come along that will render your computer less useable, no matter how you future proof it now.

Gene.

-----Original Message-----
From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 6:27 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me

This isn't correct. Browsers, and other day to day applications even,
dramatically have increased ram usage, as well as CPU power. For
example, Zoom will only let you blur the background of video if you
have a quad core processor. If you buy a dual core as opposed to a quad
core processor for example, it will struggle at even the most basic of
tasks, and in 5 years, or even in a few years, programas even screen
readers will begin to lag. This happened with my core I5 4200M. I
thought a dual core was ok, though this was a system gifted to me. Had I
been choosing my own system then, I would've gone for an I7, and now,
this dual core is not even good enough for browsing. Large websites will
freeze it and even when I had it, intensive apps like finereader will
lag significantly independant of ram. This is exactly I future proofed
my next laptop, with a 1tb SSD, 32 gb of ram, and an r7 4800H processor
from AMD, with a 4.2 GHZ boost across all cores. This should be powerful
enough to run anything conceivable in the next 5 or so years, except
maybe AI workloads.
On 10/15/2020 6:07 AM, Gene wrote:
I've seen others, and I believe you, too, make the future proof argument for buying a more powerful computer than the person's anticipated needs because it will be useful longer because you never know when your needs will change. I've always thought such arguments were not good ones. For one thing, a lot of people will continue to use computers in about the same ways as now and if they do use them in more demanding ways, those will not likely tax the computer if they buy a computer that isn't just barely powerful enough to do what they want.

Also, technology continues to become more powerful and cost less. So, in five years, the projected reliable life of a computer, you will be able to buy one to meet your needs then for less money than you are paying now. In addition, though it’s a gamble, many computers last more than five years, many significantly more. Every dollar you overspend to be future proofed that you didn't need because your needs didn't change and all the extra power of your computer remains unused is increasingly wasted, the longer your computer lasts.

It makes much more sense to buy a computer that is powerful enough to meet your current needs well if you don't anticipate major changes in how you will use your computer and are reasonably confident that you won't do things in future that will exceed the ability of the computer.

Spending one-thousand dollars to future proof a machine, just in case, maybe you use your machine much differently in the future, when you could spend five hundred dollars today and three hundred dollars in fived or seven or eight years for another machine that you would probably use in similar ways as you do now or not much, is a bad idea.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me



Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my area for my network. Even without the massive bandwidth, the lower latency itself will probably result in better quality improvements. Also, all versions of the IPhone by default include 5g.


On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of the IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in three years or so.-
I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares with your own earlier assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for fixed wireless than smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where the ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to me to be a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones in particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3 years, and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan area, is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use for its intended purpose.


Re: 5g and me

enes sarıbaş
 

This isn't correct. Browsers, and other day to day applications even, dramatically have increased ram usage, as well as CPU power. For example, Zoom will only let you blur the background of video  if you have a quad core processor. If you buy a dual core as opposed to a quad core processor for example, it will struggle at even the most basic of tasks, and in 5 years, or even in a few years, programas even screen readers will begin to lag. This happened with my core I5 4200M. I thought a dual core was ok, though this was a system gifted to me. Had I been choosing my own system then, I would've gone for an I7, and now, this dual core is not even good enough for browsing. Large websites will freeze it and even when I had it, intensive apps like finereader will lag significantly independant of ram. This is exactly I future proofed my next laptop, with a 1tb SSD, 32 gb of ram, and an r7 4800H processor from AMD, with a 4.2 GHZ boost across all cores. This should be powerful enough to run anything conceivable in the next 5 or so years, except maybe AI workloads.

On 10/15/2020 6:07 AM, Gene wrote:
I've seen others, and I believe you, too, make the future proof argument for buying a more powerful computer than the person's anticipated needs because it will be useful longer because you never know when your needs will change. I've always thought such arguments were not good ones.  For one thing, a lot of people will continue to use computers in about the same ways as now and if they do use them in more demanding ways, those will not likely tax the computer if they buy a computer that isn't just barely powerful enough to do what they want.

Also, technology continues to become more powerful and cost less. So, in five years, the projected reliable life of a computer, you will be able to buy one to meet your needs then for less money than you are paying now.  In addition, though it’s a gamble, many computers last more than five years, many  significantly more. Every dollar you overspend to be future proofed that you didn't need because your needs didn't change and all the extra power of your computer remains unused is increasingly wasted, the longer your computer lasts.

It makes much more sense to buy a computer that is powerful enough to meet your current needs well if you don't anticipate major changes in how you will use your computer and are reasonably confident that you won't do things in future that will exceed the ability of the computer.

Spending one-thousand dollars to future proof a machine, just in case, maybe you use your machine much differently in the future, when you could spend five hundred dollars today and three hundred dollars in fived or seven or eight years for another machine that you would probably use in similar ways as you do now or not much, is a bad idea.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me



Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my area for my network. Even without the massive bandwidth,  the lower latency itself will probably result in better quality improvements. Also, all versions of the IPhone by default include 5g.


On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of the IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in three years or so.-
I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares with your own earlier assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for fixed wireless than smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where the ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to me to be a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones in particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3 years, and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan area, is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use for its intended purpose.


Re: Inquiry: Seeking sites where I can download free graphics for printing

Jaffar Sidek
 

Hello.  May I know what kinds are graphics you are wanting to download and print?  Cheers!

On 15/10/2020 1:05 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Brian,

Have you ever used this site? I can't make head nor tail out of it. I see a search field, but when I type in something all I get is a bunch of references to the availability of public domain images, what constitutes public domain access and so on.  I never see any results.


On 10/14/2020 10:26 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=public+domain+image+library 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: 5g and me

Gene
 

I've seen others, and I believe you, too, make the future proof argument for buying a more powerful computer than the person's anticipated needs because it will be useful longer because you never know when your needs will change. I've always thought such arguments were not good ones. For one thing, a lot of people will continue to use computers in about the same ways as now and if they do use them in more demanding ways, those will not likely tax the computer if they buy a computer that isn't just barely powerful enough to do what they want.

Also, technology continues to become more powerful and cost less. So, in five years, the projected reliable life of a computer, you will be able to buy one to meet your needs then for less money than you are paying now. In addition, though it’s a gamble, many computers last more than five years, many significantly more. Every dollar you overspend to be future proofed that you didn't need because your needs didn't change and all the extra power of your computer remains unused is increasingly wasted, the longer your computer lasts.

It makes much more sense to buy a computer that is powerful enough to meet your current needs well if you don't anticipate major changes in how you will use your computer and are reasonably confident that you won't do things in future that will exceed the ability of the computer.

Spending one-thousand dollars to future proof a machine, just in case, maybe you use your machine much differently in the future, when you could spend five hundred dollars today and three hundred dollars in fived or seven or eight years for another machine that you would probably use in similar ways as you do now or not much, is a bad idea.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] 5g and me



Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my area for my network. Even without the massive bandwidth, the lower latency itself will probably result in better quality improvements. Also, all versions of the IPhone by default include 5g.


On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of the IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in three years or so.-
I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares with your own earlier assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for fixed wireless than smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where the ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to me to be a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones in particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3 years, and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan area, is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use for its intended purpose.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


NVDA & vocalizer voices

Walter Ramage
 

Hi all.  I have just installed one of the vocalizer voices on my Win10 machine and I went to NVDA to enable it but the voice I chose isn't there. It and other voices show in NVDA on my Win7 machine but for some reason it doesn't on my Win10 machine.  Am I missing something or not doing something I should?  after installing the vocalizer voice I did a restart to be sure but it still doesn't show.  Walter.




Re: Inquiry: Seeking sites where I can download free graphics for printing

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,

Have you ever used this site? I can't make head nor tail out of it. I see a search field, but when I type in something all I get is a bunch of references to the availability of public domain images, what constitutes public domain access and so on.  I never see any results.


On 10/14/2020 10:26 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=public+domain+image+library 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: thinking of buying a paper shredder

@KM
 

I've had mine for over ten years. I would suggest getting a micro shredding as that makes the papers much much smaller. Harder for anybody to actually paste together. Mines a Royal but I cannot tell you how much I paid been too long to remember. It has one button. Push towards you for shredding and push away from you  two clicks to reverse if it jams. Usually doesn't. I use mine for almost all junk mail including credit cards and this also allows staples. Which I don't always catch with some of my own older stuff.


On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 1:39 PM Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:

Hi

I am thinking of buying a paper shredder off amazon. So which do you recommend? The ones that only do cross-cut? Or the micro-shredding ones? Will a paper shredder let me get rid of junk mail and other papers easier if they are shredded? Right now I just cut them into several pieces with a scissors and throw them away. I think I would like a way to shred up old papers and junkmail really really small so I can throw more of it away at one time.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: screwdriver set for opening laptop?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Enes,

        I can't speak to your set, but in general, these bits are held in to the driver handles magnetically, and weak (but sufficient) magnetism is present in the bit to hold tiny screws.

        But that's different than screwdrivers that have magnetized tips, which is what you were discussing earlier.

         I have a very low cost precision screwdriver with LED lighting that holds the bits in it via magnetism, and it can and does hold on to the screws when I'm taking them out.  At least until I give the screw enough of a bump to knock it off the driver, which is very, very easy to do with tiny screws.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in libreoffice calc.

Quentin Christensen
 

Just confirming that as per the discussion on the linked issue - https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6897 - it's not that we're ignoring it, but that we need LibreOffice to expose what is happening so we can report it.  We have had virtually no success in getting any traction on issues with LibreOffice.

For the record, I found this issue reported against LibreOffice back in 2016 which is still listed as "New"... https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100086

If anyone has any contacts with LibreOffice developers, do please feel free to get them in touch with us...

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
And is the responsibility with NVDA or with the program itself?  Did the
program work properly in this respect in the past?  Did the same version of
the program work properly with an earlier version of NVDA?  It may be that
NVDA can be made to work properly with this feature of Libre Office, but
various programs included with Libre Office have long not been properly
accessible.  I don't know how the program sends such information to NVDA and
it may require the developers of Libre Office to address the problem or it
may take unreasonable time and resources for NVDA to correct something that
is a fault of the program, given the priorities and resource limitations you
spoke of.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldfield
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in
libreoffice calc.

Do we know that NV Access is ignoring this issue? We need to consider
that they have many bugs in the queue and that these issues need to be
carefully prioritized and, as we say in the industry, groomed based on
many factors. How severe is the bug? How many users might it affect?
What is the level of effort needed in order to determine what is causing
the issue and what is needed to correct it? How many developers do we
have and which one(s) should be assigned to address it and what is their
current bandwidth and workload? Don't get me wrong; I am not downplaying
the severity of this issue. Not receiving audible or possibly Braille
feedback while selecting cells in a spreadsheet is an accessibility
defect and it should be addressed. I'm only saying that there are many
factors which determine how, when or if it can/will be addressed? I
think that we should be very careful in making statements such as saying
that a company is ignoring an issue just because it hasn't been
addressed or commented on in a Github ticket. There may have been
discussions about prioritizing LibreOffice accessibility issues that we
as end users wouldn't necessarily know about.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 8:24 AM, Norman wrote:
> You're right on the version number. using version 7.0.2.2
>
> Searching github, this seems to be a long standing issue that nvaccess is
> ignoring.
>
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=DWoE2%2BSH7X5j1fzfr%2Bso6WSV2aVt7Du8sNr%2Fe4t6XPg%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> I'm not on the nvda list, but this would be worth reporting there.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2020 8:17 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
>> > Latest means latest, right?
>>
>> On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who says "I am
>> using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he is using
>> the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier version
>> without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more
>> versions had been subsequently released since the version that he
>> installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact, since a new
>> version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that the user
>> might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who tells me that
>> he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually verify to me
>> that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version numbers
>> removes this ambiguity.
>> For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one you are
>> running?
>>
>> David Goldfield,
>> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
>> JAWS Certified, 2019
>>
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>
>> On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
>>> Latest means latest, right?
>>>
>>> nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2
>>>
>>> I'll check github.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
>>>> Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the
>>>> exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said
>>>> that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us
>>>> exactly which version you are using.
>>>> I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice
>>>> Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see
>>>> if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if
>>>> you have not already done so.
>>>>
>>>> David Goldfield,
>>>> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
>>>> JAWS Certified, 2019
>>>>
>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
>>>>> Hello all.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version
>>>>> of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down
>>>>> shift and use the arrow keys.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know how to fix this?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: screwdriver set for opening laptop?

enes sarıbaş
 

One question. So the really cheap set of bits I have has no magnitism that I can see. How do you remove screws in deep holes? The driver literally has no shaft for extention, and the screw will unlatch from the screwdriver and sit in the hole. I tested out on my current laptop a bit.

On 10/14/2020 8:23 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Enes,

           I honestly can't speak to durability in these sorts of drivers, as when you're dealing with fasteners that are so small, and that require very minimal torque, you should never "ruin" a driver or driver bit anyway.

           In a regular sized screwdriver, I haven't found that there is much of any difference, either, but I'm someone who uses screwdrivers and bits (for the most part, unless I'm using a drill-driver) pretty gently.  I don't have any straight blade drivers that are magnetic that are even close to large enough for, say, prying a paint can lid off!  And that's one way I do "abuse" some larger straight blade screw drivers.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: 5g and me

enes sarıbaş
 

Hi Brian,

Just for clerification, I have confirmed 5g signals do exist in my area for my network. Even without the massive bandwidth,  the lower latency itself will probably result in better quality improvements. Also, all versions of the IPhone by default include 5g.

On 10/14/2020 9:18 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:11 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
One reason, future proofing, I want to get the highest end version of the IPhone 12, though 5g isn't very wiedespread now, it will be in three years or so.
-
I am at a loss as to how doing this, now, squares with your own earlier assertion, "I think 5g is more significant for fixed wireless than smartphones."

Going to a 5G device now, when it is obscenely expensive, and where the ability to exploit 5G is limited to a very few locations, seems to me to be a supreme waste.

And 3 years is an eternity in the world of technology, and smartphones in particular, and what's Apple's flagship now, will be mid-range in 3 years, and much cheaper.

Going to a 5G smartphone now, unless you live in a major metropolitan area, is locking your money up in a frozen asset you cannot even use for its intended purpose.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: Inquiry: Seeking sites where I can download free graphics for printing

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=public+domain+image+library 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com

4721 - 4740 of 98052