Date   

Re: Jaws Help, Please!

Gene
 

Others will know. I haven't used JAWS for years, but others will tell you.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Gene:


That's exactly the setting I'm talking about. I want Jaws to start
talking when the log on screen comes up. Do you know where I can find
this setting? Would it be in setting center?

Shelly

On 12/31/2020 12:34 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't used JAWS for years but there are settings determining whether JAWS speaks on the logon screen. Those who use JAWS will very likely advise about that. My comments are that once you know how to change the setting, if you look at it and it is already set to do so, set it not to, then set it to do so again. Now and then, a setting will be lost and changing the setting and then returning it to what it should be restores the setting.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Madison Martin
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 1:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Shelley,
Did you happen to change any settings when uninstalling the other 2 versions of Jaws? If so, then let me know and I'll try and help you.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: December 31, 2020 3:21 PM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Group:


I deleted Jaws 2019 and 2020 because I now have Jaws 2021 and I didn't need the other ones. Since I have taken the other versions off my computer, now when I turn on the computer to sign in using my pin, Jaws
2021 no longer says anything like it used to. It would always tell me to sign in and now it's not. Do you know how I can get this to talk again when I first turn on the computer? When I downloaded it a few months ago, I checked everything so it would turn on right away and it did. I'm not sure if we hit something taking off the other programs and now it's not turning on. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Simple Instructions would be most helpful. I'm not tech savvy. When I type in my pin, Jaws does come up but I need it right when I turn on the computer like it was.

Shelly
















Re: Jaws Help, Please!

chris judge
 

Hi Shelly.
The option you want is under basic settings. Press insert J to move to the jaws window. If your jaws is set to run from the system tray, pressing insert J will open the menu and land you on the options sub menu, Press right arrow to expand the options menu. You will hear, basics. Press enter. Tab over to automatically start jaws. Press enter. You will find check boxes for start jaws at the log on screen, as well as whether you want jaws to run for all users, or just you. Check the boxes you want, then tab to the ok button. Tab again to ok and press enter. This should do it.



Chris Judge

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: December 31, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Madison:


I don't think we changed anything. Maybe we hit something accidentally when we deleted them. When I downloaded 2021, I checked the box to have Jaws start up when I turn on the computer. If you can tell me where to check that, I would appreciate it. Maybe it got unchecked somehow.

Shelly

On 12/31/2020 12:26 PM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi Shelley,
Did you happen to change any settings when uninstalling the other 2 versions of Jaws? If so, then let me know and I'll try and help you.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shelly Kane
Sent: December 31, 2020 3:21 PM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Group:


I deleted Jaws 2019 and 2020 because I now have Jaws 2021 and I didn't
need the other ones. Since I have taken the other versions off my
computer, now when I turn on the computer to sign in using my pin,
Jaws
2021 no longer says anything like it used to. It would always tell me to sign in and now it's not. Do you know how I can get this to talk again when I first turn on the computer? When I downloaded it a few months ago, I checked everything so it would turn on right away and it did. I'm not sure if we hit something taking off the other programs and now it's not turning on. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Simple Instructions would be most helpful. I'm not tech savvy. When I type in my pin, Jaws does come up but I need it right when I turn on the computer like it was.

Shelly












Re: paypal

Andy
 

This happens to me when I use JAWS and Google Chrome. My fix is to use Firefox.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@sero.email>
To: <techtalk@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 8:44 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] paypal


Hi,

I've been trying all morning to send money to a friend for some computer work he had done for me. I can log in. I can type in his email addy or phone, but then everything goes to hell in a handbasket! There's no place for an amount, and there's the buttons for all my contacts. If I wanted one of my contacts, I would have said so! Why can't this be easy like it used to be?

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."




Re: Jaws Help, Please!

Shelly Kane
 

Gene:


That's exactly the setting I'm talking about.  I want Jaws to start talking when the log on screen comes up.  Do you know where I can find this setting?  Would it be in setting center?

Shelly

On 12/31/2020 12:34 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't used JAWS for years but there are settings determining whether JAWS speaks on the logon screen.  Those who use JAWS will very likely advise about that.  My comments are that once you know how to change the setting, if you look at it and it is already set to do so, set it not to, then set it to do so again.  Now and then, a setting will be lost and changing the setting and then returning it to what it should be restores the setting.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Madison Martin
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 1:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Shelley,
Did you happen to change any settings when uninstalling the other 2 versions of Jaws? If so, then let me know and I'll try and help you.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: December 31, 2020 3:21 PM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

        Hi Group:


I deleted Jaws 2019 and 2020 because I now have Jaws 2021 and I didn't need the other ones.  Since I have taken the other versions off my computer, now when I turn on the computer to sign in using my pin, Jaws
2021 no longer says anything like it used to.  It would always tell me to sign in and now it's not.  Do you know how I can get this to talk again when I first turn on the computer? When I downloaded it a few months ago, I checked everything so it would turn on right away and it did.  I'm not sure if we hit something taking off the other programs and now it's not turning on.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Simple Instructions would be most helpful.  I'm not tech savvy.  When I type in my pin, Jaws does come up but I need it right when I turn on the computer like it was.

Shelly















Re: Jaws Help, Please!

Shelly Kane
 

Madison:


I don't think we changed anything.  Maybe we hit something accidentally when we deleted them.  When I downloaded 2021, I checked the box to have Jaws start up when I turn on the computer.  If you can tell me where to check that, I would appreciate it.  Maybe it got unchecked somehow.

Shelly

On 12/31/2020 12:26 PM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi Shelley,
Did you happen to change any settings when uninstalling the other 2 versions of Jaws? If so, then let me know and I'll try and help you.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: December 31, 2020 3:21 PM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Group:


I deleted Jaws 2019 and 2020 because I now have Jaws 2021 and I didn't need the other ones. Since I have taken the other versions off my computer, now when I turn on the computer to sign in using my pin, Jaws
2021 no longer says anything like it used to. It would always tell me to sign in and now it's not. Do you know how I can get this to talk again when I first turn on the computer? When I downloaded it a few months ago, I checked everything so it would turn on right away and it did. I'm not sure if we hit something taking off the other programs and now it's not turning on. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Simple Instructions would be most helpful. I'm not tech savvy. When I type in my pin, Jaws does come up but I need it right when I turn on the computer like it was.

Shelly











Downloadable Crossword Puzzles for Use with Spoonbill Software

Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
 

Hello All, and Happy New Year.

 

We have been using the Blind Gamer’s Crossword Puzzle software for some time now and have had no trouble finding free, downloadable puzzles that work with it.  Recently we have noticed that many of the places where you could download the puzzles are no longer valid websites.

 

Can anyone suggest where to get puzzles for use with this software? 

 

Thanks.                           

 

 

 


Re: Jaws Help, Please!

Gene
 

I haven't used JAWS for years but there are settings determining whether JAWS speaks on the logon screen. Those who use JAWS will very likely advise about that. My comments are that once you know how to change the setting, if you look at it and it is already set to do so, set it not to, then set it to do so again. Now and then, a setting will be lost and changing the setting and then returning it to what it should be restores the setting.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Madison Martin
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 1:26 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Shelley,
Did you happen to change any settings when uninstalling the other 2 versions of Jaws? If so, then let me know and I'll try and help you.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: December 31, 2020 3:21 PM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Group:


I deleted Jaws 2019 and 2020 because I now have Jaws 2021 and I didn't need the other ones. Since I have taken the other versions off my computer, now when I turn on the computer to sign in using my pin, Jaws
2021 no longer says anything like it used to. It would always tell me to sign in and now it's not. Do you know how I can get this to talk again when I first turn on the computer? When I downloaded it a few months ago, I checked everything so it would turn on right away and it did. I'm not sure if we hit something taking off the other programs and now it's not turning on. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Simple Instructions would be most helpful. I'm not tech savvy. When I type in my pin, Jaws does come up but I need it right when I turn on the computer like it was.

Shelly


Re: Jaws Help, Please!

Madison Martin
 

Hi Shelley,
Did you happen to change any settings when uninstalling the other 2 versions of Jaws? If so, then let me know and I'll try and help you.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shelly Kane
Sent: December 31, 2020 3:21 PM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Jaws Help, Please!

Hi Group:


I deleted Jaws 2019 and 2020 because I now have Jaws 2021 and I didn't need the other ones. Since I have taken the other versions off my computer, now when I turn on the computer to sign in using my pin, Jaws
2021 no longer says anything like it used to. It would always tell me to sign in and now it's not. Do you know how I can get this to talk again when I first turn on the computer? When I downloaded it a few months ago, I checked everything so it would turn on right away and it did. I'm not sure if we hit something taking off the other programs and now it's not turning on. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Simple Instructions would be most helpful. I'm not tech savvy. When I type in my pin, Jaws does come up but I need it right when I turn on the computer like it was.

Shelly


Jaws Help, Please!

Shelly Kane
 

Hi Group:


I deleted Jaws 2019 and 2020 because I now have Jaws 2021 and I didn't need the other ones.  Since I have taken the other versions off my computer, now when I turn on the computer to sign in using my pin, Jaws 2021 no longer says anything like it used to.  It would always tell me to sign in and now it's not.  Do you know how I can get this to talk again when I first turn on the computer? When I downloaded it a few months ago, I checked everything so it would turn on right away and it did.  I'm not sure if we hit something taking off the other programs and now it's not turning on.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Simple Instructions would be most helpful.  I'm not tech savvy.  When I type in my pin, Jaws does come up but I need it right when I turn on the computer like it was.

Shelly


Re: paypal

Gerald Levy
 


Well, Ann, if you have tried nine ways to Sunday to enter the amount you want to send but have had no success with any browser or screen reader, then I'm afraid you are out of luck because PayPal currently has no telephone or email customer support, so there is no way to report the problem or get help.  This is unconscionable for a company of this size.  There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why they can't have customer support agents work from home like other major companies.  You could even make the case that by not providing support for blind customers, they are violating the ADA.  I have also been having problems myself with PayPal.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for three months to update the expiration date for my credit card, but every time I try, I get the message, sorry, we are not able to process your request right now, try again later. And this is with JAWS, NVDA, Chrome, Firefox and IE.   So what can I do?  I'm screwed just like you. If you want to get ambitious, maybe you could get the ACB to file a complaint against them with our consumer-friendly Attorney General, Tish James.  


Gerald



On 12/31/2020 11:46 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
Hi,

I have tried all browsers and all screen readers.  So now what?

Ann P.


Re: paypal

Gene
 

You may see my other message to a different list before I answered this one. If you already tried other nonChrome-based browsers, I'm not sure if I have other suggestions that will help. I'll suggest the following in case it does:
try going into forms mode and tabbing through the fields to see if anything different is available.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:46 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] paypal

Hi,

I have tried all browsers and all screen readers. So now what?

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: paypal

Gene
 

I've seen this discussed on one or two other lists. If you use a different, not Chrome-based browser, it should be as you expect or more or less so.

I recall that someone used Firefox and was able to work with the form.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:44 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] paypal

Hi,

I've been trying all morning to send money to a friend for some
computer work he had done for me. I can log in. I can type in his
email addy or phone, but then everything goes to hell in a handbasket!
There's no place for an amount, and there's the buttons for all my
contacts. If I wanted one of my contacts, I would have said so! Why
can't this be easy like it used to be?

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: paypal

Holly
 

Ann:

Many people have been having problems with PayPal using a chromium based browser. Try using Firefox or Internet Explorer.


Re: paypal

Ann Parsons
 

Hi,

I have tried all browsers and all screen readers. So now what?

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


paypal

Ann Parsons
 

Hi,

I've been trying all morning to send money to a friend for some computer work he had done for me. I can log in. I can type in his email addy or phone, but then everything goes to hell in a handbasket! There's no place for an amount, and there's the buttons for all my contacts. If I wanted one of my contacts, I would have said so! Why can't this be easy like it used to be?

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: Moving From JAWS to NVDA

Joe Orozco
 

I just wanted to thank Mike for this awesome resource. Extremely
helpful. And thanks to everyone in general for helping each other out
throughout the year. This is the best list I know for tech
assistance.--Joe

On 12/24/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@fastmail.com> wrote:
Hi Joe,

Check this out, article is below the URL:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA

SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
José Manuel edited this page Apr 9, 2020 ·
15 revisions

Switching From JAWS To NVDA
Introduction

The purpose of this guide is to assist users of JAWS (Job Access With
Speech), a commercial screen reader by Freedom Scientific to switch to the
open-source
screen reader NVDA (NonVisual Desktop Access) with ease. It assumes prior
knowledge of JAWS and that you are proficient in its use.

It is not intended to be a replacement of the included user guide, rather as

a means to make NVDA seem less daunting.

Strengths And Weaknesses

The intent of this guide is not to be a comparison of JAWS and NVDA, but it

is necessary to mention some things that work differently. In most daily
situations,
NVDA works just as well as JAWS, if not better in some cases.

A Quick Note about NVDA's Laptop Keyboard Layout

Selecting the laptop keyboard layout does not automatically set the CapsLock

key to act as the NVDA modifier key. In NVDA's keyboard settings, a
checkbox
is provided next to the Keyboard Layout combo box to toggle this setting.
Press NVDA+control+k to open these settings.

Note On The Insert Key.

As you may be aware, both JAWS and NVDA can use the insert key for its
modifier key. Both screen readers treat it slightly differently, which could

lead
to some confusion if you are used to one or the other.

With JAWS loaded, the insert key is solely for its use. This means that, in

order to use the original function assigned to it (such as switching
between
insert and overwrite modes in a text editor or word processor), you first
have to activate JAWS's pass key through command.

NVDA, on the other hand, allows you to carry out the insert key's original
function by pressing it twice quickly. Keep this in mind the next time
you're
editing text while using NVDA and find yourself erasing what you've already

written by typing over it. This also works for caps lock when it is
assigned
as the NVDA modifier key (press it twice to toggle caps lock).

Alternative Synthesizers

Windows OneCore voices, included in Windows 10, is used by NVDA as the
default synthesizer in Windows 10. Windows OneCore voices are responsive,
natural-sounding
and available in many languages. To add extra voices install a new language

in Windows 10 itself, including the language pack. Variants of a language,
such as "English (United Kingdom)" and "English (United States)" each
include different voices.

The eSpeak NG synthesizer is also included with NVDA. It is used as the
default in Windows 8.1 and earlier. Like NVDA itself, eSpeak NG is also free

and
open-source, which is one of the reasons for its inclusion. Another being
the sheer amount of languages it can speak.

Both Windows OneCore Voices, and eSpeak NG, have access to features such as

"rate boost", enabling the speech rate to effectively be doubled. You can
also
press SHIFT to pause, and continue, speaking, instead of CONTROL which
simply stops speech.

To change synthesizer, press NVDA+control+s. To set other voice options,
press NVDA+control+v.

However, you may find that, for whatever reason, neither Windows OneCore,
nor eSpeak NG is right for you. If this is the case you will be glad to
know
that there are alternatives, which will be discussed in the following
sections.

Eloquence

Code Factory has released a version of
eloquence as an NVDA add-on which can be purchased from this link..
A license to use Nuance's Vocalizer synthesizer is also included in the
price.

See the section entitled "Scripts" for information about NVDA add-ons.

Even more voices

If you still cannot find the perfect voice for you, the
Extra Voices page
lists several other speech synthesizers (both free and paid you can use
instead.

Terminology

Most of the time, both NVDA and JAWS share a lot of the same terminology to

describe controls e.g. radio buttons, combo boxes, checkboxes etc.

One notable difference is that NVDA differentiates between single and
multi-line edit fields, and will also tell you if a field is "protected"
(anything
you type will be replaced by asterisks). It will also alert you if text is
selected in a field when you tab over to it. If so, typing will replace the
highlighted text.

NVDA refers to the different languages a speech synthesizer can speak as
voices, and the different voices supported by your synthesizer as variants.

Cursors

NVDA has various cursors to aid in navigating Windows and applications,
similar to JAWS. The terminology is slightly different as described below.

The PC cursor in NVDA's documentation is referred to as the system focus and

system caret.

The equivalent to the JAWS cursor is a combination of object navigation, the

review cursor and the various review modes; such as Document review, object
review and Screen Review. The Screen Review function is the one perhaps most

similar to the JAWS cursor. However, it is beneficial to become familiar
with
all of these. You will find thorough, easy to understand instructions in the

user guide, or the
Basic Training for NVDA
($30 AUD).

Unlike JAWS, you don't have to switch between the PC and JAWS cursor
equivalents as the numpad is reserved exclusively for working with the JAWS

cursor
like functions.

It is worth noting that when you use object navigation or the review cursor,

the mouse does not, by default, move in sync. You have to press a command
to move the mouse to the location of the review cursor, which is similar to

how JAWS' "invisible cursor" works. There are also commands to simulate
clicking
or locking both mouse buttons.

However, if you simply want to activate the current object you are focused
on when using object navigation, there is a command to do this without
having
to move the mouse cursor to it first.

Accessing the notification area (system tray)

NVDA does not provide a dialog to access the notification area, as this is
accessible natively. Press WINDOWS+B to access the notification area. To
move
between notification area items, either use the arrow keys or press the
first letter of an item. Pressing the spacebar on an icon is the same as
left-clicking
the mouse. Pressing enter is the same as double-clicking the left mouse
button (there is no distinction between these in Windows 10). Pressing the
applications
key or shift+f10 to open the context menu for an item.

If the first item in the notification area is "Notification chevron button",

Windows is not set to show all icons. Press ENTER or spacebar to open this
and then arrow through the items. To set Windows to always show all
notification area icons, open "notification area" windows settings, or
"select which
icons appear on the taskbar", and ensure "Always show all icons in the
notification area" is checked.

If you prefer to have a dialog you can access with NVDA+F11, there is a
"SysTrayList" add-on available in the
Add-ons website.

Accessing the ribbon

Microsoft Office 2007 replaced the menu and toolbars with a "ribbon". Like
the notification area, these are accessible so NVDA does not provide a
"virtual
ribbon" replacement. Microsoft has a page on
Using the keyboard to work with the ribbon.
Essentially press ALT or ALT+letter to access individual ribbons. Press
CONTROL+LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS to move between groups within the current
ribbon
(eg Clipboard, font, paragraph, etc in Word's Home ribbon). Press TAB to
move between individual items in each ribbon and spacebar or enter to
activate
the current ribbon item. The Ribbon also includes "tell me". Press alt+q,
type the command or feature you would like to access, use the arrow keys to

select
it from the list and enter to activate it.

Checking the status of progress bars

Jaws provides a command control+insert+b to check the status of progress
bars in the current window. NVDA has options to have progress bars
automatically
reported as they update. This can be done verbally ("5%", "6%", "23%", etc),

as beeps, increasing in pitch, or both. To adjust this, press NVDA+U.
Alternatively,
it is available from the Object Presentation settings. Press NVDA+control+o

to open these settings.

Accessing characters and emoji

Jaws has a command INSERT+4 to select symbols. In NVDA INSERT+4 (assuming
INSERT is your NVDA modifier key) toggle speak command keys, which reports
when
non-alphanumeric keys, such as spacebar or arrows are pressed. To select
special characters can be done in different ways in many programs. For
instance,
press CONTROL+ALT+E to type a Euro symbol in Word. The insert symbol
functionality in Word (ALT+N, then U) is accessible, although some of the
symbols
listed in the "more symbols" dialog are not read correctly in all versions
of Word. Similarly, the "charmap" program in Windows itself allows any
symbol
from any font to be inserted. Again, not all characters are completely
described.

The Windows 10 Emoji window is accessible. Press WINDOWS+. (WINDOWS+full
stop). Press TAB to move to the categories, select a category then press
enter.
Press SHIFT+TAB to move to the list of emoji for that category, use the
arrows to move between the available emoji and enter to insert the current
emoji
into text. Press escape when done.

Touch cursor

In JAWS 15 or later, you can use numpad keys to navigate apps using a
tree-like structure, similar to how users of smartphone screen readers such

as VoiceOver
would navigate touchscreens. in NVDA, object navigation and object mode
touch commands can be used for this purpose

Virtual Cursor

The virtual cursor in NVDA is known as browse mode. It functions in much the

same way as JAWS, giving you access to navigation quick keys, or in NVDA
speak,
single letter navigation.

Following are some common issues you may encounter when browsing the web
with NVDA for the first time, and how to address them.

Why Is Everything On One Line?

In case you are unaware, JAWS has two modes for displaying webpages or other

documents using the virtual cursor; simple layout and screen layout. Simple
layout is the default, which displays content in a linear fashion - putting

each link or control on its own line. Screen layout formats the content
similar
to how it's displayed on screen.

The default in NVDA is screen layout, but you can easily switch to its
version of simple layout by pressing NVDA+V while in browse mode. This will

turn
Screen layout off. Be sure to save your configuration after making this
change with NVDA+CTRL+c.

It Keeps Saying Clickable Clickable Clickable.

While reading webpages, you might notice sometimes that NVDA says
"clickable", even multiple times on the same link or control.

As of version 2018.4 and later, NvDA will now only say clickable once, so if

you experience this issue, please upgrade your copy. Because there is no
cost
associated with upgrading, NV Access recommends always using the latest
stable release of NVDA.

You can also turn off the announcement of clickable elements entirely by
going to document formatting in settings (NVDA+control+d) and unchecking
"clickable"
in the elements group.

Find doesn't work on the web.

While JAWS is loaded, pressing ctrl+f in Internet Explorer or Firefox brings

up the JAWS Find dialogue rather than activating the browser's built-in
find
command. This is to allow you to search for text using the virtual cursor.
The regular find command will search for the next occurrence of the entered
text, but will not move the virtual cursor to that location. This is due to

how screen readers interact with web pages.

NVDA has its own find command to search in browse mode, but it has not been

tied to CTRL+F, so pressing that shortcut key calls up the browser's find
command,
hence find not working as expected.

To bring up NVDA's find dialogue, press ctrl+NVDA+F. Type in what you wish
to find then press enter.

No commands to view forms and headings?

In JAWS, you can press JAWS+F5 to list forms, JAWS+F6 to list headings and
JAWS+F7 to list links. In NVDA, the latter two have been combined into an
elements
list dialog, and you can access it by pressing NVDA+F7. You can then press
ALT+H to select Headings (the default), ALT+F for form field, ALT+B for
buttons
and ALT+D for landmarks.

Forms Mode

The equivalent of forms mode in NVDA is focus mode, and it behaves very
similar to JAWS, Even switching modes automatically when navigating through

a webpage.
It will play a sound alerting you to which mode you are in. If desired, NVDA

can speak the mode change rather than use a sound.

Details about Focus Mode can be found in the user guide.

NVDA talks too much.

Sometimes you may find that NVDA can seem overly verbose, particularly in
some list views. This is because as far as NVDA is concerned, list views
are
tables. NVDA is configured by default to announce each column or row
header.

To turn that option off, uncheck "Report table row/column headers" in the
"Document Formatting" screen of NVDA's settings dialogue. Press
NVDA+control+d
to open this setting screen.

the Speech dictionary

NVDA has always included a function to edit "Speech Dictionaries", which are

similar to JAWS' dictionary manager files. There is a group of radio
buttons
in the Add/edit dictionary entry labelled type, which determines how the
text in the pattern, (NVDA speak for actual word), box will be treated.

list of 3 items
• anywhere, which is the default behavior.
• Whole word, which is how JAWS handles dictionary entries.
• Regular Expression, which is complicated.
list end

You will also find a case sensitive checkbox.

Access the speech dictionaries with NVDA+n (to open the NVDA menu), then P
for preferences, then D for dictionaries. There are three options. Default
dictionary
works across the board, Voice dictionary works only for the current voice,
and temporary works only for the current session. Unless you know you want
one
of the other two, most of the time "default dictionary" is the desired
dictionary to edit.

Scripts

Like JAWS, scripts can be added to NVDA to provide support for other
applications or to add new features that can be accessed from anywhere.
These script
packages are called NVDA Add-ons. You can find add-ons on the
NVDA Community Add-ons page.

These include a few that emulate JAWS features not currently present in NVDA

such as a system tray list, virtualise window function and ability to
append
text to clipboard. Scripts for popular applications such as GoldWave are
also available. The user guide has details on installing add-ons, and you
can
read help documentation that comes with each add-on to learn more about how

to use the add-on.

There is an
NVDA Developer Guide
with information on how to create add-ons.

Screen Shade

From version 2019.3, NVDA includes an equivalent to JAWS' Screen Shade
feature called Screen Curtain, which will blacken the screen. By default it

is not
assigned to a keystroke, but you can assign one from the input gestures
dialogue. See the users guide for details on how to do this.

Activating the command once will enable or disable the screen curtain until

you restart your computer, whereas doing so twice quickly will enable it
permanently
until you disable it. You can also toggle it in the vision category in
Settings.

Remote access

In 2015, Christopher Toth and Tyler Spivey released a free add-on to allow
NVDA users to provide remote support, similar to JAWS Tandem. To learn more
about this add-on, go to the
NVDA Remote site.

Application-specific settings

NVDA can use configuration profiles, which make it possible to configure
certain settings to be applied only when using a program. This is done by
creating
an app-specific configuration profile. To create an app-specific profile,
open the Configuration Profiles dialogue while using the app in question.
To
open the dialogue, hit NVDA+N, to bring up the NVDA menu. arrow down until
you hear configuration profiles and press enter, or press NVDA+control+P.

When the dialogue opens, select New, and select "current application" when
asked when to use this profile. Any changes made to NVDA settings (eg
synthesizer,
speech rate or punctuation level) are applied to this profile.

Alternate say all

In recent versions of JAWS, you can configure a different speech synthesizer

to be used when say all is active. You can do this in NVDA by creating a
say
all profile in the configuration profiles menu.

Here are the steps.

list of 3 items
1. Open the configurations profile from the main NVDA menu. Press NVDA, N,
then arrow down to configuration profiles.
2. Create a new profile by tabbing to the new button or press alt, N.
3. After you name your profile, tab to the profile usage radio butttons.
arrow down until you hear "say all". Hit OK
list end


Stay safe and take care. Mike.

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Orozco
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 9:54 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Moving From JAWS to NVDA


Okay, I’m not actually trying to move fully from JAWS to NVDA, but I
am trying to learn to master NVDA. There are things JAWS does poorly
that I would like to see if the free option does better. Is there a
guide that helps users understand keystrokes in relation to the
familiarity of JAWS? Object navigation, for example, I don’t know what
the parallel would be for JAWS.

Thanks for any referrals to guides and the like.

Joe










the 3rd episode of blind android users podcast is ready for you to listen.

 

hi all.
the 3rd show of blind android users is now live.
you can listen to it at.
blindandroidusers.podsite.io
if you use Breaker you can subscribe by going to.
https://www.breaker.audio/blind-android-users-podcast
if you use google podcast you could subscribe by visiting.
https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy80NDk1YWJhYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==
if you use Pocket Casts
https://pca.st/cov3l128
if you are on RadioPublic
https://radiopublic.com/blind-android-users-podcast-6L3Xma
if you use Spotify to listen to podcast you can subscribe at.
https://open.spotify.com/show/4piCGTqwzRqTtiTouQWt3f
if you want our rss feed then click on.
https://anchor.fm/s/4495abac/podcast/rss
in this podcast warren demos an app of the week.
we have a section on how Jacob_kruger got started on android.
if you want to submit your journey into android you can email.
contactus@blindandroidusers.com
you can come live on the podcast or send us a recording of your journey.
what you struggled with if you had to go back to ios why did you go
and all you can submit.
if you have any questions you could send it to the same email address,
we don't read emails on our show but we will collect all the questions
and answer them 1 by 1.
then the next section is for people who want to come to android from
ios or if any1 uses symbian device and wants to get a new android
phone, we show you how to set it up.
we would like to wish all our listeners happy and prosperous new year 2021


Re: Website Question

Gene
 

I hope my discussion helps you navigate web pages in general more pleasantly and easily if that has been a problem. If you haven't used the Internet as much as you want, I hope you use it more.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 4:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question

Gene:


Thank you so much for posing this. It has helped me a great deal. Now,
all I do when I go to the site is hit books of the Bible and then go to
the top of the page and type a few letters of the book I want and it
works great. Thank you again so much for your help. You have made my
life easier.

Shelly

On 12/30/2020 8:00 AM, Gene wrote:
the following discussion is long, but it may be very useful to people who find browsing frustrating and inefficient. Its like a small tutorial. there is a lot to take in and try. You may wish to save the message and work with it, trying different things on different web pages or the various techniques I explain on the same web pages to see how results may differ and how results may be better on some pages using this or that technique than on another. You can experiment.

I can't tell you how much I wish people would get over the infatuation with the links list on unfamiliar sites, and while this may be preference, I see no meaningful advantage to using it on familiar sites, though people who are used to doing so on familiar sites they often use may wish to continue rather than change.

The Surf's up tutorial might be goode to look at, but it has the major drawback of emphasizing the links list almost from the outset.

Let's say you want to listen to a radio stationn using the site of the station. If you go to the site, you will very likely find a link with the wordd listen in the listen link. But you don't know if the link will say listen live, click to listen, or some other variation. If you use the links list and look for links with first letter navigation using the letter l, you may completely miss the link. If you do a search from the top of the page for the word listen or for just list, usually the first four letters of a word are enough to find what you are looking for on the first search or on the first repetition, you will not miss the link no matter what the exact wording is as long as the word listen is in it. The same with a contact link. While many links have the word Contact in them and while many start with the word contact, you don't know that.

On the Bible site, let's say you are on the page listing the books of the Bible. Searching for Gene will take you to the link to Genesis on the first search or the first repetition. You will then be in the part of the page where links to all books of the Bible are. Let's say you want to find something in the New Testament but you don't know the exact name. Even if you don't, searching for Mark from the top of the page will take you to the first book of The New Testament in the links to books on the page.

If you follow the link to a bookk, you may not know exactly what you are looking for on the page to find the text efficiently.

Web pages often have what serve as titles near where what you want is. The title often has the same or similar wording to the title bar. Searching again for Gene will take you to the title on the first search or on the first repetition.
Down arrow to see what you find and you will soon get to the links for the chapters. In future, you may simply want to search for the number you want, once you check to see just how the links are written.

In this case, using the links list may save a little time, I'm not sure, If you experiment and find that first letter navigation when you search for 2 takes you to Chapter 2, it may save a bit of time, but again, why bother. If you want to go to Chapter 30, you have to open the links list, type 3 once to move to 3, then type 3 again to move to thirty. What's the point. Search for thirty and be done with it.

As far as being on a page with a chapter you want to read, when on the page, make sure you are at the top with control home. the following is a discussion of ways of movement in such situations on various web pages of sites in general where you are looking for articles or similar text. You can experiment on Bible verse pages.

Often, you can move to or near what you want to read with the move by heading command, h, or the skip blocks of links command, n. At times, one works better on the pages of a certain web site than another. At times, a combination works best. For example, h may move you to the title of the article. Below that title, may be a lot of links such as send to Facebook, though that isn't just what would be said and other links. Use n, the skip blocs of links command to see if that moves you to the start of the text. Often, the start of text is a link so you are moved down to the second line of text, since the skip blocs of links command will skip the link that is the first line of text.. Up arrow once and if you are at the expected place, start to read.

Also, keep in mind that the move by heading command and skip blocs of links command can be repeated as often as desired. I often find it far better to try one and then another, for example, the move by heading command to get to the title of an article, instead of searching, then the skip blocs of links command to move to the start or very hnear the start of the text. But in the case of the current New York Times for example, they recently have made a change. If you go to a page with an article and move by heading, you will often get to a general topic heading such as The Election, and moving by heading again will take you to the title of the article.

One more thing about the Bible site. If you move to the Genesis page, as an example of how the books of the bible are set up, if you move as I describe, searching for Gene, you will get to the Genesis title. If you down arrow, you will get to the chapter links. But notice that you see the word "introduction" and it isn't a link. You see the word "introduction once or twice and below it, you see all the chapter links. Because "introduction" is not a link, that is a tipoff that you are currently on a page where the introduction can be read. If you move using the skkip blocks of links command from the top of the page, you will quickly move to the beginning of the introduction. It is below the chapter links. it won't say introduction but the texst will begin. I think it says The Book of Genesis.
While you can get to the same place using the move by heading command, it takes five or six repetitions. On some pages one way of movement works much better than another and you can experiment.

If people use the Bible site being discussed or other sites and have other problems or find they can't move efficiently on this or that page using techniques I describe or however else they are moving, I'll be happy to look at the page and discuss it if it is a publicly accessible pahge. If it isn't, I may have suggestions. If it is publicly accessible but registration is required, I may not want to register but I may still have suggestions.

I've long believed that something serious needs to be done to make a lot of people more aware of how to navigate web pages efficiently. Things may have improved in recent years, but in the past, my observations were that a lot of people who are good general computer users often didn't navigate web pages efficiently.

I should point out that at times just looking around an unfamiliar web page is very useful and may be the best approach or maybe letting it read or a lot of it read. I'm discussing ways to find things efficiently you can use on a lot of pages, even unfamiliar ones but these techniques don't eliminate the need for looking around on some pages perhaps extensively. And of course, you may want to read part or all of an unfamiliar page to see what is offered, not just the particular thing, such as an article, you want to read.

But experiment with these techniques and try others if you want if you think of them or if others explain them and they seem as if they might be useful.

I hope this discussion is useful.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 6:27 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question

Hi all,

It may prove helpful to find the Surf's Up tutorial in FS-Reader and
take a look at the commands.

I think if I were searching such a site, I would use the Links List f7,
I would also try the v command as that takes you to visited sings. If
your class is studying Romans, for example, pressing v will take you to
Romans if you've visited that link before.

Headings are another way to navigate. I haven't been to the site so
can't advise you but try the h command and see what happens.

Ann P.


Original message:
Do you use such commands as skip blocks of links on web pages and move by
heading? Also, you can move immediately to a book of the Bible by using the
screen-reader's search command to find it. You don't have to type the whole
name, generally the first four letters will work in a search either on the
first one or the first repetition. If I am in
Genesis, and I want to get to the links to the verses, I can do so
reasonably efficiently by searching for Genesis from the top of the page
again. that serves as the title of the page and, of course, of the book.
Down arrowing a few times takes you right to the verse links.
If you don't use these sorts of skills, learning about them and developing
them will help you browse in many cases much more efficiently. I'll present
other suggestions of how to browse efficiently if you wish.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question
Gene:

Thanks for your help. I was able to find the book and the chapter that
I wanted. I just have to arrow down a lot. Glad that it's working.
Shelly
On 12/29/2020 5:22 AM, Gene wrote:
What do you mean difficult? Press enter on the book of the Bible you want
to read, then find the verse you want to read and press enter. But
without knowing what you find difficult, I might not be addressing your
problem if I go into further detail. If the problem is that you have
problems finding the book you want or where the versus begin or some such
problems let us know. I've never seen a Bible site where you might not
have such problems but they can be easily eliminated with navigation
techniques that may help with many sites.
Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 3:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question
Gene:

I was just telling Ron about the site you gave me. I will definitely
try it the way you gave it to me. When I visit the site, I put in:
usccb.org/bible/readings and then I go to books of the Bible and I found
it difficult. Maybe this way will be easier. I will give this a try
also. Did you find it accessible with screen readers? I just want to
be able to look at a list of books and pick the one I want and then look
at the chapters and then click on a chapter. Does this site you were
telling me about work like that?
Shelly
On 12/28/2020 4:34 AM, Gene wrote:
The site Ron gave has a different version of the Bible than the newest
one made available and the newest one is probably the one your class is
using. I don't know if or how much it matters but if you want to use what
is likely the same one, with the same introductions to books and
footnotes, this site will provide it:
The site Ron gave has a different version of the Bible than the newest
one made available and the newest one is probably the one your class is
using. I don't know if or how much it matters but if you want to use what
I suspect is likely the same one, with the same introductions to books
and footnotes, this site will provide it:
https://bible.usccb.org/bible
I am not a Catholic but I suspect the version on the site Ron gave is the
Scolfield Bible. I didn't find an attribution on the site but I compared
and it definitely isn't the version on the USCCB site.
Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 4:14 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Website Question
Hi Group:

I was wondering if anyone knows of a good place that's accessible to
find books of the Bible? I'm doing a class and would like to find a
website with the books of the Bible where I can go to the site and pick
which took I want to read and I would be able to find the chapters
easily. I'm looking for a Catholic Bible. If no one knows, I perfectly
understand. Thanks in advance.
Shelly

























Re: Website Question

Shelly Kane
 

Ron:


Thank you so much.  Your explanation helped me.  I understood what you were describing very well.  I get confused easily with several people telling me all kinds of different way.  My way is just the easiest and you and Gene did that for me.  It stinks because I didn't have proper training when I was younger so I have had to learn on my own.  Take care.

Shelly

On 12/30/2020 11:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Shelly,

Since the site is heading dependent, if you are using either JAWS or NVDA, pressing the letter H will move you to the next heading and if you wish to go backwards (from bottom to top) pressing shift + h will move you backwards.

For example: If you are on the book of genesis in the bible page and you wish to move to the book of Leviticus, press the H key once and you will move to the book of Exodus.  Press it again and you will move to the book of Levicicus.  Conversely, if you are on the book of Deuteronomy and you wish to go to the book of Exodus, hold the shift key down and press H once to go to the book of Numbers, Press shift + h one more time to go to the book of Leviticus and Press shift + H one more time to move to the book of Exodus.


On 12/30/2020 5:14 AM, Shelly Kane wrote:
Gene:


Thank you for letting me know about browsing.  No, I have no idea how to do that.  When I go to the website, I just arrow down until I find books of the Bible and then when that comes up, I go to the book I need and then just start listening to the chapter.  We are reading chapters in this class.  If you could tell me a faster way to get to my book and chapter, I would appreciate it but if there isn't, I will just continue with what I'm doing.  The thing with the Catholic Bishops website, after the chapter is done, they have a whole spiel about each verse and a summary.  I'm not interested in that.  It's hard for me to know when the chapter ends.  So when I hear each number being summarized, I know that I'm done.

Shelly

On 12/29/2020 7:47 PM, Gene wrote:
Do you use such commands as skip blocks of links on web pages and move by heading?  Also, you can move immediately to a book of the Bible by using the screen-reader's search command to find it.  You don't have to type the whole name, generally the first four letters will work in a search either on the first one or the first repetition. If I am in
Genesis, and I want to get to the links to the verses, I can do so reasonably efficiently by searching for Genesis from the top of the page again.  that serves as the title of the page and, of course, of the book. Down arrowing a few times takes you right to the verse links.

If you don't use these sorts of skills, learning about them and developing them will help you browse in many cases much more efficiently.  I'll present other suggestions of how to browse efficiently if you wish.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question

Gene:


Thanks for your help.  I was able to find the book and the chapter that
I wanted.  I just have to arrow down a lot.   Glad that it's working.

Shelly

On 12/29/2020 5:22 AM, Gene wrote:
What do you mean difficult?  Press enter on the book of the Bible you want to read, then find the verse you want to read and press enter.  But without knowing what you find difficult, I might not be addressing your problem if I go into further detail.  If the problem is that you have problems finding the book you want or where the versus begin or some such problems let us know.  I've never seen a Bible site where you might not have such problems but they can be easily eliminated with navigation techniques that may help with many sites.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 3:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question

Gene:


I was just telling Ron about the site you gave me.  I will definitely
try it the way you gave it to me.  When I visit the site, I put in:
usccb.org/bible/readings and then I go to books of the Bible and I found
it difficult.  Maybe this way will be easier.  I will give this a try
also.  Did you find it accessible with screen readers?  I just want to
be able to look at a list of books and pick the one I want and then look
at the chapters and then click on a chapter.  Does this site you were
telling me about work like that?

Shelly

On 12/28/2020 4:34 AM, Gene wrote:
The site Ron gave has a different version of the Bible than the newest one made available and the newest one is probably the one your class is using. I don't know if or how much it matters but if you want to use what is likely the same one, with the same introductions to books and footnotes, this site will provide it:
The site Ron gave has a different version of the Bible than the newest one made available and the newest one is probably the one your class is using. I don't know if or how much it matters but if you want to use what I suspect is likely the same one, with the same introductions to books and footnotes, this site will provide it:
https://bible.usccb.org/bible

I am not a Catholic but I suspect the version on the site Ron gave is the Scolfield Bible.  I didn't find an attribution on the site but I compared and it definitely isn't the version on the USCCB site.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 4:14 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Website Question

       Hi Group:


I was wondering if anyone knows of a good place that's accessible to
find books of the Bible?  I'm doing a class and would like to find a
website with the books of the Bible where I can go to the site and pick
which took I want to read and I would be able to find the chapters
easily.  I'm looking for a Catholic Bible.  If no one knows, I perfectly
understand.  Thanks in advance.

Shelly



























Re: Website Question

Shelly Kane
 

Gene:


Thank you so much for posing this.  It has helped me a great deal.  Now, all I do when I go to the site is hit books of the Bible and then go to the top of the page and type a few letters of the book I want and it works great.  Thank you again so much for your help.  You have made my life easier.

Shelly

On 12/30/2020 8:00 AM, Gene wrote:
the following discussion is long, but it may be very useful to people who find browsing frustrating and inefficient. Its like a small tutorial.  there is  a lot to take in and try.  You may wish to save the message and work with it, trying different things on different web pages or the various techniques I explain on the same web pages to see how results may differ and how results may be better on some pages using this or that technique than on another.  You can experiment.

I can't tell you how much I wish people would get over the infatuation with the links list on unfamiliar sites, and while this may be preference, I see no meaningful advantage to using it on familiar sites, though people who are used to doing so on familiar sites they often use may wish to continue rather than change.

The Surf's up tutorial might be goode to look at, but it has the major drawback of emphasizing the links list almost from the outset.

Let's say you want to listen to a radio stationn using the site of the station.  If you go to the site, you will very likely find a link with the wordd listen in the listen link.  But you don't know if the link will say listen live, click to listen, or some other variation.  If you use the links list and look for links with first letter navigation using the letter l, you may completely miss the link.  If you do a search from the top of the page for the word listen or for just list, usually the first four letters of a word are enough to find what you are looking for on the first search or on the first repetition, you will not miss the link no matter what the exact wording is as long as the word listen is in it.  The same with a contact link.  While many links have the word Contact in them and while many start with the word contact, you don't know that.

On the Bible site, let's say you are on the page listing the books of the Bible.  Searching for Gene will take you to the link to Genesis on the first search or the first repetition.  You will then be in the part of the page where links to all books of the Bible are.  Let's say you want to find something in the New Testament but you don't know the exact name.  Even if you don't, searching for Mark from the top of the page will take you to the first book of The New Testament in the links to books on the page.

If you follow the link to a bookk, you may not know exactly what you are looking for on the page to find the text efficiently.

Web pages often have what serve as titles near where what you want is.  The title often has the same or similar wording to the title bar.  Searching again for Gene will take you to the title on the first search or on the first repetition.
Down arrow to see what you find and you will soon get to the links for the chapters.  In future, you may simply want to search for the number you want, once you check to see just how the links are written.

In this case, using the links list may save a little time, I'm not sure,  If you experiment and find that first letter navigation when you search for 2 takes you to Chapter 2, it may save a bit of time, but again, why bother. If you want to go to Chapter 30, you have to open the links list, type 3 once to move to 3, then type 3 again to move to thirty.  What's the point. Search for thirty and be done with it.

As far as being on a page with a chapter you want to read, when on the page, make sure you are at the top with control home.  the following is a discussion of ways of movement in such situations on various web pages of sites in general where you are looking for articles or similar text.  You can experiment on Bible verse pages.

Often, you can move to or near what you want to read with the move by heading command, h, or the skip blocks of links command, n.  At times, one works better on the pages of a certain web site than another.  At times, a combination works best.  For example, h may move you to the title of the article.  Below that title, may be a lot of links such as send to Facebook, though that isn't just what would be said and other links.  Use n, the skip blocs of links command to see if that moves you to the start of the text. Often, the start of text is a link so you are moved down to the second line of text, since the skip blocs of links command will skip the link that is the first line of text..  Up arrow once and if you are at the expected place, start to read.

Also, keep in mind that the move by heading command and skip blocs of links command can be repeated as often as desired.  I often find it far better to try one and then another, for example, the move by heading command to get to the title of an article, instead of searching, then the skip blocs of links command to move to the start or very hnear the start of the text. But in the case of the current New York Times for example, they recently have made a change.  If you go to a page with an article and move by heading, you will often get to a general topic heading such as The Election, and moving by heading again will take you to the title of the article.

One more thing about the Bible site.  If you move to the Genesis page, as an example of how the books of the bible are set up, if you move as I describe, searching for Gene, you will get to the Genesis title.  If you down arrow, you will get to the chapter links.  But notice that you see the word "introduction" and it isn't a link.  You see the word "introduction once or twice and below it, you see all the chapter links.  Because "introduction" is not a link, that is a tipoff that you are currently on a page where the introduction can be read.  If you move using the skkip blocks of links command from the top of the page, you will quickly move to the beginning of the introduction.  It is below the chapter links.  it won't say introduction but the texst will begin.   I think it says The Book of Genesis.
While you can get to the same place using the move by heading command, it takes five or six repetitions.  On some pages one way of movement works much better than another and you can experiment.

If people use the Bible site being discussed or other sites and have other problems or find they can't move efficiently on this or that page using techniques I describe or however else they are moving, I'll be happy to look at the page and discuss it if it is a publicly accessible pahge.  If it isn't, I may have suggestions.  If it is publicly accessible but registration is required, I may not want to register but I may still have suggestions.

I've long believed that something serious needs to be done to make a lot of people more aware of how to navigate web pages efficiently.  Things may have improved in recent years, but in the past, my observations were that a lot of people who are good general computer users often didn't navigate web pages efficiently.

I should point out that at times just looking around an unfamiliar web page is very useful and may be the best approach or maybe letting it read or a lot of it read.  I'm discussing ways to find things efficiently you can use on a lot of pages, even unfamiliar ones but these techniques don't eliminate the need for looking around on some pages perhaps extensively.  And of course, you may want to read part or all of an unfamiliar page to see what is offered, not just the particular thing, such as an article, you want to read.

But experiment with these techniques and try others if you want if you think of them or if others explain them and they seem as if they might be useful.

I hope this discussion is useful.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 6:27 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question

Hi all,

It may prove helpful to find the Surf's Up tutorial in FS-Reader and
take a look at the commands.

I think if I were searching such a site, I would use the Links List f7,
I would also try the v command as that takes you to visited sings.  If
your class is studying Romans, for example, pressing v will take you to
Romans if you've visited that link before.

Headings are another way to navigate.  I haven't been to the site so
can't advise you but try the h command and see what happens.

Ann P.


Original message:
Do you use such commands as skip blocks of links on web pages and move by
heading?  Also, you can move immediately to a book of the Bible by using the
screen-reader's search command to find it.  You don't have to type the whole
name, generally the first four letters will work in a search either on the
first one or the first repetition.  If I am in
Genesis, and I want to get to the links to the verses, I can do so
reasonably efficiently by searching for Genesis from the top of the page
again.  that serves as the title of the page and, of course, of the book.
Down arrowing a few times takes you right to the verse links.
If you don't use these sorts of skills, learning about them and developing
them will help you browse in many cases much more efficiently. I'll present
other suggestions of how to browse efficiently if you wish.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question
Gene:

Thanks for your help.  I was able to find the book and the chapter that
I wanted.  I just have to arrow down a lot.   Glad that it's working.
Shelly
On 12/29/2020 5:22 AM, Gene wrote:
What do you mean difficult?  Press enter on the book of the Bible you want
to read, then find the verse you want to read and press enter.  But
without knowing what you find difficult, I might not be addressing your
problem if I go into further detail.  If the problem is that you have
problems finding the book you want or where the versus begin or some such
problems let us know.  I've never seen a Bible site where you might not
have such problems but they can be easily eliminated with navigation
techniques that may help with many sites.
Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 3:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Website Question
Gene:

I was just telling Ron about the site you gave me.  I will definitely
try it the way you gave it to me.  When I visit the site, I put in:
usccb.org/bible/readings and then I go to books of the Bible and I found
it difficult.  Maybe this way will be easier.  I will give this a try
also.  Did you find it accessible with screen readers?  I just want to
be able to look at a list of books and pick the one I want and then look
at the chapters and then click on a chapter.  Does this site you were
telling me about work like that?
Shelly
On 12/28/2020 4:34 AM, Gene wrote:
The site Ron gave has a different version of the Bible than the newest
one made available and the newest one is probably the one your class is
using. I don't know if or how much it matters but if you want to use what
is likely the same one, with the same introductions to books and
footnotes, this site will provide it:
The site Ron gave has a different version of the Bible than the newest
one made available and the newest one is probably the one your class is
using. I don't know if or how much it matters but if you want to use what
I suspect is likely the same one, with the same introductions to books
and footnotes, this site will provide it:
https://bible.usccb.org/bible
I am not a Catholic but I suspect the version on the site Ron gave is the
Scolfield Bible.  I didn't find an attribution on the site but I compared
and it definitely isn't the version on the USCCB site.
Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shelly Kane
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 4:14 AM
To: techtalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Website Question
       Hi Group:

I was wondering if anyone knows of a good place that's accessible to
find books of the Bible?  I'm doing a class and would like to find a
website with the books of the Bible where I can go to the site and pick
which took I want to read and I would be able to find the chapters
easily.  I'm looking for a Catholic Bible.  If no one knows, I perfectly
understand.  Thanks in advance.
Shelly
























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