Date   

Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Carolyn Arnold
 

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones. But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us. Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@gmail.com> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@centurylink.net <mailto:dlh007@centurylink.net> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before. I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses. Think they were called Sonar
Glasses. The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead. If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street. And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack. Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right? That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for several years. I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me. And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














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The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
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Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Carolyn Arnold
 

Me too, Pam, same height, have confronted more than one tree branch.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

I never knew short people didn’t have to worry about overhanging stuff like tree branches. I am five foot two and I have run into plenty of overhanging stuff like that. Pam.

From: Gerald Levy via groups.io <mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount




So what you are saying is that this device would be most helpful for tall people and less helpful for those of us who are short and don't have to worry about overhanging objects, like tree branches, is that right?




Gerald








On 5/6/2021 10:46 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:


Hello Dave,

This is one thing that Strap will assist with, is obstacles at head height. I don't particularly enjoy branches and such either.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:42 AM Dave <dlh007@centurylink.net <mailto:dlh007@centurylink.net> > wrote:


I am a Tall man, and I find that most Tree Branches that are over Walk ways are often cut to a height of about 6 ft. Bushes and tree limbs are something I meet more than I would like. On regular routes I walk, I will go out very early in the morning and Clip off those low hanging limbs when no one is looking.




Can't do this every where, but I at least cleared those areas where I walk regularly.




Grumpy Dave

On 5/6/2021 1:06 AM, Gene wrote:


A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane. That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique. It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary.

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers. I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better. While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option. But I have no objedction to such a device. I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind. Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog. I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

Also, I might be safer. Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner. Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us. When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so. So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Curralejo <mailto:marco.curr@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount


I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.



A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.



If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.



Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.



As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.



Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.



Marco



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount



And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea. It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person. Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic. [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions. When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help. How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog? If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind. This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness. I don’t want to hide it. I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount



The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply. The advantages are obvious of a car. What advantage does the cane replacement company offer? Only one, that you can travel hands free. I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for.



You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment. People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information. and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information. There are reasons people prefer dogs. But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device. The device is offered as a replacement for the cane. I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information.



I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane. I use larger bags. Others may prefer a back pack.



As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened. And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable. What if you forget to charge it. Is the battery user replaceable? If not, how much will it cost to replace it?



And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected. I have an emergency cane. Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars. People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars.



As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane. I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior.



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount



This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.



Gene,



People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.



Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.



Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.



Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?



Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?



Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.



Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.



Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?



Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.



So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.



Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.



So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.



I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.



And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.



On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com> > wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it? I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.



I’d like to see how expensive this device is. I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge. I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place.



Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted. Maybe there is a reason.



Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association. Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior. Will it be replaced at some point by something superior? Who knows. but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.



As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Marco Curralejo <mailto:marco.curr@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

To: TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount



Hello everyone,



Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.



At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.



Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.



The Blind Tech Guys <https://www.blindtechguys.com/> are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.



Warm regards,



Marco Curralejo







--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
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Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



Thank you, and have a great day!



--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



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Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Victor
 

That's true.  But in the longrun, I think a smart phone will be  more  useful.  Especially  if  this  device  isn't  popular  and  they  stop  making  it.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 11:57 AM, Pamela Dominguez <pammygirl99@...> wrote:


I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.
 
From: Victor
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device
 
If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.
 
I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.
 
Just my thoughts,
 
Victor
 

On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:



I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.

 

Chris Judge

JAWS Certified, 2021

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

Hello Dave,

 

This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.

 

They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.

 

I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.

 

Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@...> wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave








 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Dave
 

Great Comment Victor. 

I too use my Cane as a Tool to get around, and not as something that identifies me as someone blind. 

Some might, but to me, it is just a tool to use to get from Point A to Point B. 

Grumpy Dave

On 5/6/2021 11:03 AM, Victor wrote:
I've never thought of the cane as a symbol of my independence.  I've always used it because I need it.  It's like wearing shoes.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


In that case, I would be far more willing to pay 200 dollars for a device that warnsmeof such things than 750 dollars for a device that does a lot of other things if a much cheaper device could be made that works well.  But how many good cane users do you think will be willing to spend 750 dollars for this device?  Those who aren’t good cane users may. 
 
If I had such a device, just as automobiles have spare tires, I wouldn’t go out without a folding cane with me for emergencies.  It just isn’t prudent.  And reasonable cane skills should not be discouraged to be developed, whether people use them or not.  You don’t stop walking when you get a car.  You shouldn’t put yourself in the position of not being able to function if the device stops unexpectedly. 
 
And, as I said, one reason I had such a strong reaction to the device initially is how it is being advertised to us.  This is not the way to advertise such a device and have it be properly considered by a lot of people.  Hype or not, this sounds like the same kind of hype we’ve heard for years.  Less hype and more concrete information in releases made to the public and on the web site might help its reception considerably.  And I saw nothing on the web site where these various podcasts are linked to.  The web site has a FAQ but it is not nearly adequate because it doesn’t deal at all with the kinds of questions being asked here.  And they should have material on Youtube.
 
And even the way the discount is being offered is in a high pressure manner.  Intended or not, that will breed distrust as well.  This is a quote from the offer:
Hurry, this is a limited-time offer with time running out! Once 1,000 STRAP devices are sold, this special pricing will end.
Save $250 Today!
 
This offer is the first text on the home page after the navigation links.  It does not engender confidence in the company.  You don’t introduce a product on the web site of the company in this way. 
 
Those who want the product to succeed should contact the developers and discuss these things.  they are making very bad mistakes in their approach which will alienate a lot of people or make a lot of people far more skeptical than if the product were presented in the proper way.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I am a Tall man, and I find that most Tree Branches that are over Walk ways are often cut to a height of about 6 ft.  Bushes and tree limbs are something I meet more than I would like.  On regular routes I walk, I will go out very early in the morning and Clip off those low hanging limbs when no one is looking. 

 

Can't do this every where, but I at least cleared those areas where I walk regularly. 

 
 
Grumpy Dave
 
On 5/6/2021 1:06 AM, Gene wrote:
A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 
 
There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.
 
Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Pamela Dominguez
 

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.
 

From: Victor
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device
 
If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.
 
I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.
 
Just my thoughts,
 
Victor
 

On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:



I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.

 

Chris Judge

JAWS Certified, 2021

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

Hello Dave,

 

This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.

 

They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.

 

I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.

 

Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@...> wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave








 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Mich Verrier
 

Yes I am 5 foot 6 and have ran into tree brantchis my self.  But about the product at discussion I will lissen to the podcast but agree with others on this thred that we have seen these kinds of prodotypes before and that seems to be all they are you hear about them and then flash they are gone and never move past prodo type stage. From Mich.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: May 6, 2021 2:54 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I never knew short people didn’t have to worry about overhanging stuff like tree branches.  I am five foot two and I have run into plenty of overhanging stuff like that.  Pam.

 

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:31 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

 

So what you are saying is that this device would be most helpful for tall people and less helpful for those of us who are short and don't have to worry about overhanging objects, like tree branches, is that right?

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 10:46 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:

Hello Dave,

 

This is one thing that Strap will assist with, is obstacles at head height. I don't particularly enjoy branches and such either.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:42 AM Dave <dlh007@...> wrote:

I am a Tall man, and I find that most Tree Branches that are over Walk ways are often cut to a height of about 6 ft.  Bushes and tree limbs are something I meet more than I would like.  On regular routes I walk, I will go out very early in the morning and Clip off those low hanging limbs when no one is looking. 

 

Can't do this every where, but I at least cleared those areas where I walk regularly. 

 

 

Grumpy Dave

 

On 5/6/2021 1:06 AM, Gene wrote:

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Pamela Dominguez
 

I never knew short people didn’t have to worry about overhanging stuff like tree branches.  I am five foot two and I have run into plenty of overhanging stuff like that.  Pam.
 

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

 

So what you are saying is that this device would be most helpful for tall people and less helpful for those of us who are short and don't have to worry about overhanging objects, like tree branches, is that right?


Gerald



On 5/6/2021 10:46 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello Dave,
 
This is one thing that Strap will assist with, is obstacles at head height. I don't particularly enjoy branches and such either.
 
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:42 AM Dave <dlh007@...> wrote:

I am a Tall man, and I find that most Tree Branches that are over Walk ways are often cut to a height of about 6 ft.  Bushes and tree limbs are something I meet more than I would like.  On regular routes I walk, I will go out very early in the morning and Clip off those low hanging limbs when no one is looking. 

 

Can't do this every where, but I at least cleared those areas where I walk regularly. 

 
 
Grumpy Dave
 
On 5/6/2021 1:06 AM, Gene wrote:
A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 
 
There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.
 
Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!

 
 
--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
 
Thank you, and have a great day!

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Rick Alfaro
 

Thanks Joe, a well thought out and balanced message. We may agree or not agree with their approach but we should applaud and encourage innovation IMHO. I certainly don't think it is some kind of scam. Personally, I don't think it will ever replace the cane but would certainly consider it another enhancement from what I've read so far and I wish them luck with it. I may even try it myself some day if it becomes a little more affordable but don't think it will replace my cane. Perhaps I'd change my opinion if I ever give it a try.





Warmest regards

Rick Alfaro

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:44 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Love the thought-provoking discussion! I'm not opposed to innovation.
Yet, having participated in several user testing groups where the hope was to improve navigation for the blind, I see years later that none of them endured beyond the prototype. I won't pretend to be intelligent enough to understand why that is, but there is something to be said for old methods like cane or dog that are fundamental for any future technology to be successful. A guide dog user cannot, in my opinion, be truly successful if they are not a strong cane user. I would assume an individual would not fully excel with innovative technology if they could not navigate successfully with a dog. So maybe the aim should not be to replace proven methods, but rather, enhance them. It would go a long way in earning the trust of the blind community and better help the developers understand what the actual pain points might be for the blind traveler. I do applaud the forward thinking. I see nothing wrong with pushing the envelope.

Joe


On 5/6/21, val and david paul <valanddavidp@gmail.com> wrote:
Well said Gene!

On 06/05/2021 08:46, Gene wrote:
And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.
It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person. Perhaps you
will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when
crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.
[Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions. When I
walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.
How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t
made clear by a cane or a dog? If you don’t have a cane, people
won’t know you are blind. This strikes me as an attempt to hide a
person’s blindness. I don’t want to hide it. I am what I am and it
shouldn’t be hidden.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount The car and
horse analogy doesn’t apply. The advantages are obvious of a car.
What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?
Only one, that you can travel hands free. I don’t consider that
worht spending 250 dollars for.
You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your
environment. People may be satisfied with that and that’s their
choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent
cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five
dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.
and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept
less information. There are reasons people prefer dogs. But this is
not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device. The device
is offered as a replacement for the cane. I doubt many competent
cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them
less information.
I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a
cane. I use larger bags. Others may prefer a back pack.
As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve
been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have
almost never happened. And you have no basis to assume that this
device will be as reliable. What if you forget to charge it. Is the
battery user replaceable? If not, how much will it cost to replace it?
And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a
skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device,
he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the
problem is corrected. I have an emergency cane. Having two canes
costs me perhaps sixty dollars. People aren’t going to have two of
these devices when they cost 250 dollars.
As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles
above the lefvel of the cane. I do object to the attitude that the
cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
*To:* main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount This post is
my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All
opinions in this message are my own.
Gene,
People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And
yet, we are now driving cars.
Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog
users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go
around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that
we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing?
Because I am one of those blind people.
Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both
hands free?
Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over
my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my
upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking?
Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes,
I've done it.
Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight
line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there
isn't a way to do it with a cane.
Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area,
or any crowded environment without running into many things?
Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked
whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass?
Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person
I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance.
I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about
anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because
they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and
any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool.
And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of
shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate,
not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't
know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so
far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and
adding sensors to it.
So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish.
But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've
seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously.
We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains
that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have
probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet,
the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and
say they're proud of their canes.
I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the
effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the
hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation
and progress.
And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can
see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out
proud to be carrying a stick.
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com
<mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged
because blind people use it? I don’t see people trying to
eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is
superior.
I’d like to see how expensive this device is. I’d like to see how
long it runs on a charge. I’d like to see if it gives me
information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is
to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that
grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me
to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a
building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be
necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place.
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been
widely adopted. Maybe there is a reason.
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do
things are often disparaged, guilt by association. Some ways
blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.
Will it be replaced at some point by something superior? Who
knows. but its persistence and wide use should give those who
chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put
up.”
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Marco Curralejo <mailto:marco.curr@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
*To:* TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Hello everyone,

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device
that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of
obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time
information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below
your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you
with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped
globally later this year.

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are
human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first
replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long
overdue hands free experience.

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price
of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250
and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is
shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer
is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

The Blind Tech Guys <https://www.blindtechguys.com/>are pleased to
offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share
this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try
this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out
for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

Warm regards,

Marco Curralejo

--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in
civil or criminal charges. I have checked this email and all
corresponding attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader
for Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!





Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Victor
 

I've never thought of the cane as a symbol of my independence.  I've always used it because I need it.  It's like wearing shoes.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


In that case, I would be far more willing to pay 200 dollars for a device that warnsmeof such things than 750 dollars for a device that does a lot of other things if a much cheaper device could be made that works well.  But how many good cane users do you think will be willing to spend 750 dollars for this device?  Those who aren’t good cane users may. 
 
If I had such a device, just as automobiles have spare tires, I wouldn’t go out without a folding cane with me for emergencies.  It just isn’t prudent.  And reasonable cane skills should not be discouraged to be developed, whether people use them or not.  You don’t stop walking when you get a car.  You shouldn’t put yourself in the position of not being able to function if the device stops unexpectedly. 
 
And, as I said, one reason I had such a strong reaction to the device initially is how it is being advertised to us.  This is not the way to advertise such a device and have it be properly considered by a lot of people.  Hype or not, this sounds like the same kind of hype we’ve heard for years.  Less hype and more concrete information in releases made to the public and on the web site might help its reception considerably.  And I saw nothing on the web site where these various podcasts are linked to.  The web site has a FAQ but it is not nearly adequate because it doesn’t deal at all with the kinds of questions being asked here.  And they should have material on Youtube.
 
And even the way the discount is being offered is in a high pressure manner.  Intended or not, that will breed distrust as well.  This is a quote from the offer:
Hurry, this is a limited-time offer with time running out! Once 1,000 STRAP devices are sold, this special pricing will end.
Save $250 Today!
 
This offer is the first text on the home page after the navigation links.  It does not engender confidence in the company.  You don’t introduce a product on the web site of the company in this way. 
 
Those who want the product to succeed should contact the developers and discuss these things.  they are making very bad mistakes in their approach which will alienate a lot of people or make a lot of people far more skeptical than if the product were presented in the proper way.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I am a Tall man, and I find that most Tree Branches that are over Walk ways are often cut to a height of about 6 ft.  Bushes and tree limbs are something I meet more than I would like.  On regular routes I walk, I will go out very early in the morning and Clip off those low hanging limbs when no one is looking. 

 

Can't do this every where, but I at least cleared those areas where I walk regularly. 

 
 
Grumpy Dave
 
On 5/6/2021 1:06 AM, Gene wrote:
A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 
 
There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.
 
Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: the Strap

Holly
 

Dave:

I imagine the device would mount between the collar bone and the breast bone, so don't see any problem there.


Re: Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Robin Frost
 

Hi Gene and all,

Thanks for the description of how web pages appear.  I find such things to be very useful tools when interacting with sighted people.

As for the unintended sentence it's been my experience this sometimes happens most frequently for me in the Thunderbird client. When using Jaws For Windows it'll often have the subject line as the first line of the body of the message. Why I do not know.

Thanks again for the education.

Take good good care.

Robin


On 5/6/2021 1:32 PM, Gene wrote:
I’m not sure why this sentence is read before my message begins in the message body.  it isn’t part of my message.  The sentence is:
A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen
 
Gehe
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen
 
I haven’t checked but I expect you can set JAWS to display things as they appear on screen to the extent other screen-readers do.  But System Access displays one link per line and NVDA can be set to display one link per line as well. 
 
And I don’t know of any screen-reader that displays things as they appear on web pages in most ways.  Any screen-reader I’ve used displays navigation links at the top of the page, then other text, then below that text, a clustr of other links, somewhat like the navigation links on top.  This is not how a web page appears to sighted users.  To sighted users, navigation links run down the left side of the page.  Other text appears more in the middle, then the cluster of links screen-readers show on the bottom appear on the right side of the screen. 
 
I haven’t read the article yet, but my point is that blind people aren’t shown web pages as sighted people see them.  If a sighted person says this link is on the right, that means it is in the cluster of links at the bottom of the page.  Rather than worry about such descriptions, if I know the name of the link, I use my screen-reader’s find command to find it. 
 
It is useful to know what I’ve described and it is informative to know how a sighted person sees web pages.  If I were telling a sighted person where to find a link, such knowledge might be useful in that way.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:47 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen
 

So I read this and even the  story (at least to me) doesn’t give enough info on how this is different than other screen readers.

Like doesn’t NVDA and narrator provide things as they appear on the webpage, where as JAWS doesn’t?

Also, what about the rest of the interactions that appear outside of the browser?

Would different engines behave differently?

John

 

From: Mike Calvo <mailchimp-contact@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2021 4:21 PM
To: John <jhii926@...>
Subject: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

 

View this email in your browser

Hi John,

A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Here at Pneuma Solutions, we’re always on the prowl for the latest technology that could redefine the way we interact with the world. Some of this technology we adopt into our own workflow for your benefit. At other times we have to stand back in admiration at the ingenuity other teams are leveraging to make the world more inclusive.

A student team at Johns Hopkins is developing a screen reader that takes a unique approach to rendering text. The prototype is called A Set of Eyes, and it seeks to provide an intelligent means of engaging with elements on environments like websites. We are confident the project will stand out as one of the university’s most promising initiatives with tangible benefit to the millions of blind people who rely on technology to lead successful and independent lives.

Click here to read the full story about this Johns Hopkins student team project



Sincerely,

The Pneuma Solutions Team
The Global Leader in Accessible Cloud-Based Technologies
pneumasolutions.com

Twitter

Facebook

Website

 


 

Copyright © 2021 Pneuma Solutions, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you opted in via our website.

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Re: Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Gene
 

I’m not sure why this sentence is read before my message begins in the message body.  it isn’t part of my message.  The sentence is:
A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen
 
Gehe

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen
 
I haven’t checked but I expect you can set JAWS to display things as they appear on screen to the extent other screen-readers do.  But System Access displays one link per line and NVDA can be set to display one link per line as well. 
 
And I don’t know of any screen-reader that displays things as they appear on web pages in most ways.  Any screen-reader I’ve used displays navigation links at the top of the page, then other text, then below that text, a clustr of other links, somewhat like the navigation links on top.  This is not how a web page appears to sighted users.  To sighted users, navigation links run down the left side of the page.  Other text appears more in the middle, then the cluster of links screen-readers show on the bottom appear on the right side of the screen. 
 
I haven’t read the article yet, but my point is that blind people aren’t shown web pages as sighted people see them.  If a sighted person says this link is on the right, that means it is in the cluster of links at the bottom of the page.  Rather than worry about such descriptions, if I know the name of the link, I use my screen-reader’s find command to find it. 
 
It is useful to know what I’ve described and it is informative to know how a sighted person sees web pages.  If I were telling a sighted person where to find a link, such knowledge might be useful in that way.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:47 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen
 

So I read this and even the  story (at least to me) doesn’t give enough info on how this is different than other screen readers.

Like doesn’t NVDA and narrator provide things as they appear on the webpage, where as JAWS doesn’t?

Also, what about the rest of the interactions that appear outside of the browser?

Would different engines behave differently?

John

 

From: Mike Calvo <mailchimp-contact@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2021 4:21 PM
To: John <jhii926@...>
Subject: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

 

View this email in your browser

Hi John,

A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Here at Pneuma Solutions, we’re always on the prowl for the latest technology that could redefine the way we interact with the world. Some of this technology we adopt into our own workflow for your benefit. At other times we have to stand back in admiration at the ingenuity other teams are leveraging to make the world more inclusive.

A student team at Johns Hopkins is developing a screen reader that takes a unique approach to rendering text. The prototype is called A Set of Eyes, and it seeks to provide an intelligent means of engaging with elements on environments like websites. We are confident the project will stand out as one of the university’s most promising initiatives with tangible benefit to the millions of blind people who rely on technology to lead successful and independent lives.

Click here to read the full story about this Johns Hopkins student team project



Sincerely,

The Pneuma Solutions Team
The Global Leader in Accessible Cloud-Based Technologies
pneumasolutions.com

Twitter

Facebook

Website

 

 

Copyright © 2021 Pneuma Solutions, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you opted in via our website.

Our mailing address is:

Pneuma Solutions

43 SE Main St

Minneapolis, MN 55414-1029


Add us to your address book



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Re: Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Gene
 

I haven’t checked but I expect you can set JAWS to display things as they appear on screen to the extent other screen-readers do.  But System Access displays one link per line and NVDA can be set to display one link per line as well. 
 
And I don’t know of any screen-reader that displays things as they appear on web pages in most ways.  Any screen-reader I’ve used displays navigation links at the top of the page, then other text, then below that text, a clustr of other links, somewhat like the navigation links on top.  This is not how a web page appears to sighted users.  To sighted users, navigation links run down the left side of the page.  Other text appears more in the middle, then the cluster of links screen-readers show on the bottom appear on the right side of the screen. 
 
I haven’t read the article yet, but my point is that blind people aren’t shown web pages as sighted people see them.  If a sighted person says this link is on the right, that means it is in the cluster of links at the bottom of the page.  Rather than worry about such descriptions, if I know the name of the link, I use my screen-reader’s find command to find it. 
 
It is useful to know what I’ve described and it is informative to know how a sighted person sees web pages.  If I were telling a sighted person where to find a link, such knowledge might be useful in that way.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:47 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen
 

So I read this and even the  story (at least to me) doesn’t give enough info on how this is different than other screen readers.

Like doesn’t NVDA and narrator provide things as they appear on the webpage, where as JAWS doesn’t?

Also, what about the rest of the interactions that appear outside of the browser?

Would different engines behave differently?

John

 

From: Mike Calvo <mailchimp-contact@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2021 4:21 PM
To: John <jhii926@...>
Subject: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

 

View this email in your browser

Hi John,

A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Here at Pneuma Solutions, we’re always on the prowl for the latest technology that could redefine the way we interact with the world. Some of this technology we adopt into our own workflow for your benefit. At other times we have to stand back in admiration at the ingenuity other teams are leveraging to make the world more inclusive.

A student team at Johns Hopkins is developing a screen reader that takes a unique approach to rendering text. The prototype is called A Set of Eyes, and it seeks to provide an intelligent means of engaging with elements on environments like websites. We are confident the project will stand out as one of the university’s most promising initiatives with tangible benefit to the millions of blind people who rely on technology to lead successful and independent lives.

Click here to read the full story about this Johns Hopkins student team project



Sincerely,

The Pneuma Solutions Team
The Global Leader in Accessible Cloud-Based Technologies
pneumasolutions.com

Twitter

Facebook

Website

 

 

Copyright © 2021 Pneuma Solutions, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you opted in via our website.

Our mailing address is:

Pneuma Solutions

43 SE Main St

Minneapolis, MN 55414-1029


Add us to your address book



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You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list.

Email Marketing Powered by Mailchimp


the Strap

Dave
 

OK, this new device is to go around the chest.


I can see this working well for a man, but not so well on a woman.


Wonder if the Company has a work around for this?


Grumpy Dave


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Gene
 

Battery use is discussed in the podcast I’ve heard and I would imagine in others.  The goal is twenty-four hours between charges and they are now up to about eighteen.  This sort of information not being in the FAQ on the site is another example of how not to present a product.
 

Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

Hmmm.  I noticed that Gene asked about battery charge and other such questions about this device which nobody has answered yet.

How come? Is this stuff people don’t know the answer too?

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 6:40 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I just listened to the podcast.  it contains discussion and information that should be on the web site and that should be in the realease but isn’t or isn’t developed well.  I don’t know how useful the product will be.  Nothing was said about getting information such as being able to count driveways and walkways, which is important.  It may be that the user can get enough information about the hight of steps or a curve but I can’t be sure from the description.  Information about such things is given and from the discription of people moving using the device, it sounds as though the information allows you to know hights well, but I don’t know that. 

 

I note with interest that on the podcast, they discuss how people will know you are blind.  They are considering that question and one thing they have done is develop an armband.  It wasn’t described so I have no idea how it alerts people that you are blind.  Considering the universal knowledge of the white cane and I believe having one confers legal protection in case of traffic accident, I am far from convinced that this important advantage will be addressed at all adequately by the device for years or much longer.  The law would have to catch up and the public would have to be very aware of some sort of obvious and very easily observed new symbol.  So regardless of how well this device works, I don’t see people not using their canes for a long time or at any rate, not conspicuously displaying them where it matters to be seen as a blind person. 

 

Things like GPS systems are of obvious value.  I am not convinced that this product’s value anywhere nearly equals its price. 

 

As time goes on, if I hear convincing information, I’ll consider it and I may change my mind.  For now, there are times when an old simple technology is not worth replacing by a complex, very expensive one when the old one works well. 

 

Also, there is the question of whether my first reaction was too critical.  I don’t think so.  there are going to be a lot of people with similar reactions because we’ve seen it all before, over and over, for decades.  Enormous hype and not much to show for it.  These people need to know their market.  They would be wise to use less hype, do more real discussion and explaining on their web site and in their ;publicity releases and not to harp on the first device to completely replace the cane.  That sort of thing is exactly what puts a lot of blind people on guard.  And many blind people consider the cane to be a symbol of independence and competence.  Empahsizing that this product is the first full replacement for the cane is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.  And it won’t replace the cane even if it can.  A lot of blind people, evenif they use the device will still conspicuously carry canes for reasons I’ve discussed, unless and until some new universal method of identification is established.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 4:24 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Here is a podcast from Blind Abilities.  It is an interview with two of the developers of Strap. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:53 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

If you find points implausible, just sayihng so doesn’t make your case.  What are they?  Why are they?

 

Gene

------Original Message------

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:37 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Gene
 

In that case, I would be far more willing to pay 200 dollars for a device that warnsmeof such things than 750 dollars for a device that does a lot of other things if a much cheaper device could be made that works well.  But how many good cane users do you think will be willing to spend 750 dollars for this device?  Those who aren’t good cane users may. 
 
If I had such a device, just as automobiles have spare tires, I wouldn’t go out without a folding cane with me for emergencies.  It just isn’t prudent.  And reasonable cane skills should not be discouraged to be developed, whether people use them or not.  You don’t stop walking when you get a car.  You shouldn’t put yourself in the position of not being able to function if the device stops unexpectedly. 
 
And, as I said, one reason I had such a strong reaction to the device initially is how it is being advertised to us.  This is not the way to advertise such a device and have it be properly considered by a lot of people.  Hype or not, this sounds like the same kind of hype we’ve heard for years.  Less hype and more concrete information in releases made to the public and on the web site might help its reception considerably.  And I saw nothing on the web site where these various podcasts are linked to.  The web site has a FAQ but it is not nearly adequate because it doesn’t deal at all with the kinds of questions being asked here.  And they should have material on Youtube.
 
And even the way the discount is being offered is in a high pressure manner.  Intended or not, that will breed distrust as well.  This is a quote from the offer:
Hurry, this is a limited-time offer with time running out! Once 1,000 STRAP devices are sold, this special pricing will end.
Save $250 Today!
 
This offer is the first text on the home page after the navigation links.  It does not engender confidence in the company.  You don’t introduce a product on the web site of the company in this way. 
 
Those who want the product to succeed should contact the developers and discuss these things.  they are making very bad mistakes in their approach which will alienate a lot of people or make a lot of people far more skeptical than if the product were presented in the proper way.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I am a Tall man, and I find that most Tree Branches that are over Walk ways are often cut to a height of about 6 ft.  Bushes and tree limbs are something I meet more than I would like.  On regular routes I walk, I will go out very early in the morning and Clip off those low hanging limbs when no one is looking. 

 

Can't do this every where, but I at least cleared those areas where I walk regularly. 

 
 
Grumpy Dave
 
On 5/6/2021 1:06 AM, Gene wrote:
A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 
 
There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.
 
Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

John Holcomb II
 

Makes you really know how much you got to depend on others.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 12:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

It has gotten that way for me, John with my hearing, despite having hearing aids.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Holcomb II
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 11:25 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Then you got people like me who hearing isn’t good enough to be able to walk down a street or anything else on my own.

Not safely, anyway.

Because I can’t localize sound or tell how far away cars and other things are with the hearing aids I use.



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount



This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.



Gene,



People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.



Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.



Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.



Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?



Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?



Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.



Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.



Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?



Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.



So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.



Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.



So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.



I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.



And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.



On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com> > wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it? I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.



I’d like to see how expensive this device is. I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge. I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place.



Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted. Maybe there is a reason.



Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association. Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior. Will it be replaced at some point by something superior? Who knows. but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.



As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Marco Curralejo <mailto:marco.curr@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

To: TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount



Hello everyone,



Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.



At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.



Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.



The Blind Tech Guys <https://www.blindtechguys.com/> are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.



Warm regards,



Marco Curralejo








--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Loy
 


This was my thoughts as well after reading the article.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 12:47 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

So I read this and even the  story (at least to me) doesn’t give enough info on how this is different than other screen readers.

Like doesn’t NVDA and narrator provide things as they appear on the webpage, where as JAWS doesn’t?

Also, what about the rest of the interactions that appear outside of the browser?

Would different engines behave differently?

John

 

From: Mike Calvo <mailchimp-contact@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2021 4:21 PM
To: John <jhii926@...>
Subject: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

 

View this email in your browser

Hi John,

A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Here at Pneuma Solutions, we’re always on the prowl for the latest technology that could redefine the way we interact with the world. Some of this technology we adopt into our own workflow for your benefit. At other times we have to stand back in admiration at the ingenuity other teams are leveraging to make the world more inclusive.

A student team at Johns Hopkins is developing a screen reader that takes a unique approach to rendering text. The prototype is called A Set of Eyes, and it seeks to provide an intelligent means of engaging with elements on environments like websites. We are confident the project will stand out as one of the university’s most promising initiatives with tangible benefit to the millions of blind people who rely on technology to lead successful and independent lives.

Click here to read the full story about this Johns Hopkins student team project



Sincerely,

The Pneuma Solutions Team
The Global Leader in Accessible Cloud-Based Technologies
pneumasolutions.com

Twitter

Facebook

Website

 

 

Copyright © 2021 Pneuma Solutions, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you opted in via our website.

Our mailing address is:

Pneuma Solutions

43 SE Main St

Minneapolis, MN 55414-1029


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Interesting but I’m not sure I get how this is different FW: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

John Holcomb II
 

So I read this and even the  story (at least to me) doesn’t give enough info on how this is different than other screen readers.

Like doesn’t NVDA and narrator provide things as they appear on the webpage, where as JAWS doesn’t?

Also, what about the rest of the interactions that appear outside of the browser?

Would different engines behave differently?

John

 

From: Mike Calvo <mailchimp-contact@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2021 4:21 PM
To: John <jhii926@...>
Subject: A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

 

View this email in your browser

Hi John,

A Set of Eyes Helps You Engage with Your Computer Screen

Here at Pneuma Solutions, we’re always on the prowl for the latest technology that could redefine the way we interact with the world. Some of this technology we adopt into our own workflow for your benefit. At other times we have to stand back in admiration at the ingenuity other teams are leveraging to make the world more inclusive.

A student team at Johns Hopkins is developing a screen reader that takes a unique approach to rendering text. The prototype is called A Set of Eyes, and it seeks to provide an intelligent means of engaging with elements on environments like websites. We are confident the project will stand out as one of the university’s most promising initiatives with tangible benefit to the millions of blind people who rely on technology to lead successful and independent lives.

Click here to read the full story about this Johns Hopkins student team project



Sincerely,

The Pneuma Solutions Team
The Global Leader in Accessible Cloud-Based Technologies
pneumasolutions.com

Twitter

Facebook

Website

 

 

Copyright © 2021 Pneuma Solutions, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you opted in via our website.

Our mailing address is:

Pneuma Solutions

43 SE Main St

Minneapolis, MN 55414-1029


Add us to your address book



Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list.

Email Marketing Powered by Mailchimp


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Monte Single
 

Heck, how about a device that runs on exhaust fumes.

Could that  be a green concept?

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: May 6, 2021 9:51 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

 

Maybe it's solar or wind powered.  No batteries required.  Or maybe you just wind it up.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 11:33 AM, John Holcomb II wrote:

Hmmm.  I noticed that Gene asked about battery charge and other such questions about this device which nobody has answered yet.

How come? Is this stuff people don’t know the answer too?

John

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 6:40 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I just listened to the podcast.  it contains discussion and information that should be on the web site and that should be in the realease but isn’t or isn’t developed well.  I don’t know how useful the product will be.  Nothing was said about getting information such as being able to count driveways and walkways, which is important.  It may be that the user can get enough information about the hight of steps or a curve but I can’t be sure from the description.  Information about such things is given and from the discription of people moving using the device, it sounds as though the information allows you to know hights well, but I don’t know that. 

 

I note with interest that on the podcast, they discuss how people will know you are blind.  They are considering that question and one thing they have done is develop an armband.  It wasn’t described so I have no idea how it alerts people that you are blind.  Considering the universal knowledge of the white cane and I believe having one confers legal protection in case of traffic accident, I am far from convinced that this important advantage will be addressed at all adequately by the device for years or much longer.  The law would have to catch up and the public would have to be very aware of some sort of obvious and very easily observed new symbol.  So regardless of how well this device works, I don’t see people not using their canes for a long time or at any rate, not conspicuously displaying them where it matters to be seen as a blind person. 

 

Things like GPS systems are of obvious value.  I am not convinced that this product’s value anywhere nearly equals its price. 

 

As time goes on, if I hear convincing information, I’ll consider it and I may change my mind.  For now, there are times when an old simple technology is not worth replacing by a complex, very expensive one when the old one works well. 

 

Also, there is the question of whether my first reaction was too critical.  I don’t think so.  there are going to be a lot of people with similar reactions because we’ve seen it all before, over and over, for decades.  Enormous hype and not much to show for it.  These people need to know their market.  They would be wise to use less hype, do more real discussion and explaining on their web site and in their ;publicity releases and not to harp on the first device to completely replace the cane.  That sort of thing is exactly what puts a lot of blind people on guard.  And many blind people consider the cane to be a symbol of independence and competence.  Empahsizing that this product is the first full replacement for the cane is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.  And it won’t replace the cane even if it can.  A lot of blind people, evenif they use the device will still conspicuously carry canes for reasons I’ve discussed, unless and until some new universal method of identification is established.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 4:24 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Here is a podcast from Blind Abilities.  It is an interview with two of the developers of Strap. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:53 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

If you find points implausible, just sayihng so doesn’t make your case.  What are they?  Why are they?

 

Gene

------Original Message------

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:37 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!

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