Date   

Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Gene
 

The podcast I linked to previously includes one of the developers explaining about the tutorial that comes with the device.  it demonstrates, by discussing and causing the device to make them, different haptic occurrences and what they mean.  the person says that after going through the short tutorial, the person learning the device might want to go outdoors using his cane and the device so he/she can learn how to use it in that way. 
 
In another message, you said the haptic vibrations might distract from traffic sounds.  I see no reason to believe that.  On what basis do you make such a statement?  Why should vibrations and other sensations on your chest and other areas of your body interfere with your concentration on hearing.  And if they do at first, anyone with any sense won’t go into traffic until they have learned to experience both without degredation.
 
I remain skeptical that this device will be widely used because of cost and because I am yet to be persuaded that it will give me the kind of detailed information I want such as the height of a curve or of steps in a flight of stairs..  But if independent knowledgeable and credible reviewers say this sort of information is given well, while I don’t think skilled cane or dog users will flock to purchase a 750 dollar device when what they have works well, at the same time, I don’t think learning to use the device and integrating it with cane or dog use will be a problem.  I just doubt very much that it is worth the money.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Victor
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2021 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device
 
That’s a good question!
 
Victor


On May 7, 2021, at 3:56 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

What kind of personalized training is offered to purchasers of the Strap?  To sell this device without providing one on one training so that the purchaser is taught to wear and use it properly would be highly irresponsible. For such a mobility aid,printed instructions are insufficient. 


Gerald



On 5/7/2021 1:59 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
A couple of other things:
 
Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.
 
On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.
 
If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.
 
Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor mailto:victorelawrence@...
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge mailto:chrisjudge1967@... wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... mailto:dlh007@... > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

john s
 

I don't think we know enough about this device to say whether or not specialized training is needed.


At 07:07 AM 5/7/2021, Victor, wrote:
That’s a good question!

Victor


On May 7, 2021, at 3:56 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




What kind of personalized training is offered to purchasers of the Strap?  To sell this device without providing one on one training so that the purchaser is taught to wear and use it properly would be highly irresponsible. For such a mobility aid,printed instructions are insufficient. 


Gerald



On 5/7/2021 1:59 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
A couple of other things:

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor < victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@... > wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io > On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [ mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor < mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io < mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

< https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... < mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave












                 John


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Victor
 

During the 80s, I owned a pair of glasses called the sonic guide. In essence, it was a pair of sonar glasses. It sent out a signal which came back as an audible tone when you got near something. I enjoyed it and it was probably one of the best solutions for detecting objects at head or chest level. But like so many other devices for the blind, it didn’t stay on the market long.

Victor


On May 7, 2021, at 4:00 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




Actually, using a Strap device could make street crossings risky because the vibrations could distract the user from hearing traffic flow patterns to determine when it is safe to proceed. 


Gerald



On 5/6/2021 7:34 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello Mich,

A cane or a dog won't necessarily keep you from falling off a platform, but they will give you the information you need to make a commonsense decision. They do say that the Strap device will be able to provide feedback as to whether it is a shorter or a deeper step, and the sensors will detect even minoot changes of elevation, for instance from sidewalk to grass.

If you don't like vibrations though, this may not be for you.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:19 PM Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:

Hi all after looking around on the strap.tech websight and looking at there faq and other things I would be interested in trying this out but I wouldn’t really pay 500 for it. I am a Seeing Eye dog user and some of the things that I would like to know is will this keep you from as others have said falling in to holes, off traine platforms, or other things where a dog is trained to do? Also the idea that it uses haptic feedback and not audio or voice feed back is kind of interesting as well since I have that feture on my I phone 8 turned off since I found it distracting and annoying. I mutch prefer audio feedback and would struggle with the different vibrations and knowing what they meen. I am not really a fan of that kind of feedback as it is. These are just my inishel thoughts after giving the websight a quick look. From Mich.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello John,

 

No, it can't tell you about doors, but it will tell you about obstacles, and would work to tell you that you're walking, for instance, through a door. The best mobility tool for finding a door quickly is a dog, when they choose to find the door, that is. You can do so with a cane, but often that requires a lot of trailing and exploration. So you could do the same with strap, but I would probably carry an ID cane or something similar for situations where I do want more tactile feedback of my surroundings. Which isn't very often by the way, and before anyone asks, I do the same thing as a dog user as well.

 

Thanks.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 3:32 PM John Holcomb II <jhii926@...> wrote:

hmmm.

Interesting.

I absolutely love android for this reason (not that I don’t use iOS), because of how much haptic I can get.

So it could tell me where doors are that kinda thing?

Great. Now  if only it could tell me when  somebody is talking to me in the store, that would be even better!

Then I could communicate on the best way to talk to me so I could conduct my business.

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 6:26 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Which is another reason why this device can help you, John, as it doesn't rely on hearing. You would still probably require assistance crossing streets, but would not be as dependent on your hearing for echo location because of the way it works through haptics.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 8:25 AM John Holcomb II <jhii926@...> wrote:

Then you got people like me who hearing isn’t good enough to be able to walk down a street or anything else on my own.

Not safely, anyway.

Because I  can’t localize sound  or tell how far away cars and other things are with the hearing aids I use.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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Registered Linux User 529141.
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To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Victor
 

That’s a good question!

Victor


On May 7, 2021, at 3:56 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:




What kind of personalized training is offered to purchasers of the Strap?  To sell this device without providing one on one training so that the purchaser is taught to wear and use it properly would be highly irresponsible. For such a mobility aid,printed instructions are insufficient. 


Gerald



On 5/7/2021 1:59 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
A couple of other things:

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Gerald Levy
 


Actually, using a Strap device could make street crossings risky because the vibrations could distract the user from hearing traffic flow patterns to determine when it is safe to proceed. 


Gerald



On 5/6/2021 7:34 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello Mich,

A cane or a dog won't necessarily keep you from falling off a platform, but they will give you the information you need to make a commonsense decision. They do say that the Strap device will be able to provide feedback as to whether it is a shorter or a deeper step, and the sensors will detect even minoot changes of elevation, for instance from sidewalk to grass.

If you don't like vibrations though, this may not be for you.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:19 PM Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:

Hi all after looking around on the strap.tech websight and looking at there faq and other things I would be interested in trying this out but I wouldn’t really pay 500 for it. I am a Seeing Eye dog user and some of the things that I would like to know is will this keep you from as others have said falling in to holes, off traine platforms, or other things where a dog is trained to do? Also the idea that it uses haptic feedback and not audio or voice feed back is kind of interesting as well since I have that feture on my I phone 8 turned off since I found it distracting and annoying. I mutch prefer audio feedback and would struggle with the different vibrations and knowing what they meen. I am not really a fan of that kind of feedback as it is. These are just my inishel thoughts after giving the websight a quick look. From Mich.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello John,

 

No, it can't tell you about doors, but it will tell you about obstacles, and would work to tell you that you're walking, for instance, through a door. The best mobility tool for finding a door quickly is a dog, when they choose to find the door, that is. You can do so with a cane, but often that requires a lot of trailing and exploration. So you could do the same with strap, but I would probably carry an ID cane or something similar for situations where I do want more tactile feedback of my surroundings. Which isn't very often by the way, and before anyone asks, I do the same thing as a dog user as well.

 

Thanks.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 3:32 PM John Holcomb II <jhii926@...> wrote:

hmmm.

Interesting.

I absolutely love android for this reason (not that I don’t use iOS), because of how much haptic I can get.

So it could tell me where doors are that kinda thing?

Great. Now  if only it could tell me when  somebody is talking to me in the store, that would be even better!

Then I could communicate on the best way to talk to me so I could conduct my business.

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 6:26 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Which is another reason why this device can help you, John, as it doesn't rely on hearing. You would still probably require assistance crossing streets, but would not be as dependent on your hearing for echo location because of the way it works through haptics.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 8:25 AM John Holcomb II <jhii926@...> wrote:

Then you got people like me who hearing isn’t good enough to be able to walk down a street or anything else on my own.

Not safely, anyway.

Because I  can’t localize sound  or tell how far away cars and other things are with the hearing aids I use.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Gerald Levy
 


What kind of personalized training is offered to purchasers of the Strap?  To sell this device without providing one on one training so that the purchaser is taught to wear and use it properly would be highly irresponsible. For such a mobility aid,printed instructions are insufficient. 


Gerald



On 5/7/2021 1:59 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
A couple of other things:

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Gene
 

No.  It is a continuation of the same thread.
 
GeneNo. 

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2021 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device
 
Hello is this spam?
 

On 7 May 2021 16:33:44 "Nimer Jaber" <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

Hello,
 
As long as it is relying on a camera with no other sensors, this is not likely any time soon.
 
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:09 PM Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
That’s true, and the description of the product indicates that. That’s why I mentioned that you would probably still need a cane. However, it is still a fairly new device and it seems to be one of the few that is standing the test of time. Perhaps it will be improved so that it does have good obstacle detection in the future.
 
Victor
 

On May 6, 2021, at 10:59 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


A couple of other things:
 
Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.
 
On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.
 
If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.
 
Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor mailto:victorelawrence@...
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge mailto:chrisjudge1967@... wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... mailto:dlh007@... > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave













 
 
--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
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Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
 
Thank you, and have a great day!
 


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

chris judge
 

Unless the orcam has improved it’s not the best device for a totally blind person for reading either, especially news papers where you have to point the device at the area of the paper you want read. I haven’t worked it since 2019 so things might have changed.

 

Chris Judge

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 7, 2021 2:59 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

A couple of other things:

 

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:

From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

 

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

 

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave













Clubhouse Problem

George Zaynoun
 

Hello!

I invited some numbers to Clubhouse and when the owners of these numbers login using their respective number and after they get the 4-digit code and when punched in the app tells it wants to import their profile from Twitter, they go to authorize Twitter to give access to Clubhouse do the import but unfortunately the authorize button is unavailable, how can we solve this mistery?


Thanks.

--
Georges Zeinoun
Timmerv. 6A ITR LGH1102, 54163 SKÖVDE SWEDEN
Tel: +46 (500) 48 29 29 Mobile: +46 (70) 366 63 29


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Marco Curralejo
 

Hello is this spam?

On 7 May 2021 16:33:44 "Nimer Jaber" <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

Hello,

As long as it is relying on a camera with no other sensors, this is not likely any time soon.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:09 PM Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
That’s true, and the description of the product indicates that. That’s why I mentioned that you would probably still need a cane. However, it is still a fairly new device and it seems to be one of the few that is standing the test of time. Perhaps it will be improved so that it does have good obstacle detection in the future.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 10:59 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


A couple of other things:

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave















--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello,

As long as it is relying on a camera with no other sensors, this is not likely any time soon.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:09 PM Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
That’s true, and the description of the product indicates that. That’s why I mentioned that you would probably still need a cane. However, it is still a fairly new device and it seems to be one of the few that is standing the test of time. Perhaps it will be improved so that it does have good obstacle detection in the future.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 10:59 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


A couple of other things:

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave















--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

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addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Victor
 

That’s true, and the description of the product indicates that. That’s why I mentioned that you would probably still need a cane. However, it is still a fairly new device and it seems to be one of the few that is standing the test of time. Perhaps it will be improved so that it does have good obstacle detection in the future.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 10:59 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


A couple of other things:

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Nimer Jaber
 

A couple of other things:

Orcam does not do obstacle detection, and it requires that you train it to detect specific faces.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Nimer Jaber
 

Orcam sounds incredible in theory, but because it requires you to stop to take pictures or use the auto mode which continuously takes pictures, I would say that it isn’t great for blind users who are on the move, and certainly won’t provide distance measurements, or tell you the direction of lines or arrows on a sign. If you want orcam, or the envision glasses for that matter, do yourself a favor and buy a head-mount, or even a chest mount, and open up the envision app, supersense, or any of the other apps that do the same thing, and you'll get most, if not all of what Orcam gives you. That is my view on Orcam.


On Thu, May 6, 2021, 22:42 Victor <victorelawrence@...> wrote:
From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Victor
 

From  my  research ,  the  best  all-around  mobility  device  seems  to  be  the  Orcam  device.   It  detects  objects, reads print, recognizes faces and more.  It probably doesn't replace the cane, but this Strap device hasn't been around long enough to prove itself.  Orcam has been on the market for a few years and I've read good things about it.

If I were to spend money on an advanced mobility device, and if the payments were affordable, Orcam is probably what I'd buy.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:



The experimental Japanese robotic guide dog also got put down.  It couldn’t handle stairs.

 

James B 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

 

 

Well, the NYPD's robotic dog didn't work out and had to be put down.  So don't count on a robotic guide dog any time soon.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/6/2021 5:39 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

The only kind of guide dog I would ever have would be a robotic one.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 5:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

Probably there would be a little less maintenance with robotic guide dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

I guess that would be good for all the people who have smart phones.  But it still wouldn’t be good for the rest of us.  Pam.

From: Victor <mailto:victorelawrence@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device

If I were wealthy, I might purchase this device just to play with it and provide feedback to the developers. In the meantime, why can’t someone just develop existing smart phone apps to do the same thing? Why can’t we just place our smart phones in a wearable lanyard with the phone's camera facing away from our bodies to accomplish the same things? Supersense and other similar apps could accomplish the same things if these apps are developed a little more. If you want this device, go out and purchase it. As for me, I’m not going to run out and purchase this device just because it’s the latest thing that technology developers think is going to be great. They are probably wrong.

I think there was a recently published article about robotic seeing eye dogs. Honestly, I think such a device might be more useful than this device. Again, I have never wanted a seeing eye dog. However, a robotic seeing Eye dog might be useful.

Just my thoughts,

Victor



On May 6, 2021, at 7:43 AM, chris judge <chrisjudge1967@...> wrote:





I’m definitely interested. New tech is always exciting. I wouldn’t pre-order, at least not yet, but if it can do what they claim I may add it to my tech tool kit.



Chris Judge

<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Device



Hello Dave,



This device is mounted to the chest for precisely the reason you mention, the issue that people with glasses or with arm bands and such end up moving about, thus making detecting obstacles more difficult. The chest tends to be relatively proportional with the direction the body is moving in.



They also state that Strap will detect cracks in the sidewalk, and assist users in travelling in a straight line. Is it trailing? Sort of, but no. Guide dog users don't trail either, as you know, and use different clues while traveling to get to where they wish to go.



I do have reservations, I don't think that this device, in its first iteration, will be a great cane replacement, but I do think the developers are worth supporting, and I do hope lots of people buy it to provide the devs feedback, and to help this kind of a product move forward. One concern I have is regarding detection of, for instance, doorways where the door is closed, but this can be a challenge, to different degrees and in different ways, with both a cane and a dog. The cane requires trailing which may be a bit difficult if there is, for instance, lots of outdoor displays or furniture, not to mention a bit noisy, and the dog may or may not want to indicate a particular doorway, and may confuse windows with doors.



Each mobility device has its pros and cons, but I do think that a product like this is worth taking notice of, and at least trying and providing meaningful feedback for.



On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:23 AM Dave <dlh007@... <mailto:dlh007@...> > wrote:

Devices like this have been made before.  I recall one such device that
was built into a pair of glasses.  Think they were called Sonar
Glasses.  The user needed to move their Head side to side back and forth
as well as up and down, to have the Beam cover the front, as the person
was walking.


Get to a set of Stairs, and the device would Beep a series of notes like
going up or down a scale.

Now, as far as I am concerned, if someone wants to purchase this type of
devise, go ahead.  If you think it will help you, by all means, go for it.


I can think of one aspect of using a Cane that might be  a problem using
this Strap Device.


I would be curious to try something like this, but at first glance, I
can't see how it could do as good of job as my Cane. But, again, don't
let my thoughts frighten you away.

How would a person Trail, as they are walking along?


Let's say I have one of those situations where I am walking on a walking
area made of pavement, which is blended into the street. On the left,
there is a White line that helps Sighted folks from walking out into the
street.  And on the right is a Seam, or very narrow Crack where the
pavement meets the Cement of a Store Front parking area.


With a Cane I can feel the Texture differences between the pavement and
the Cement, or I might be able to detect the Seam or Crack.  Not sure
how those Sonar device would help in this situation.


And like with the Sonar Glasses of years past, does the operator need to
continuously twist their body from side to side to have the sonar beams
cover what's on the left and right?  That could be an interesting Boogie
Woogie move for someone to do while they are walking.


Personally, I have used a Cane for years, and I did have a guide Dog
for  several years.  I found the Dog was in general, better than using a
Cane, especially in deep Snow and packed Ice conditions.


But, the up keep and care of the Dog, and the reactions to the Dog
others would exhibit were down sides for me.  And when my Dog was
retired, I decided to return to using a Cane.


I have good cane skills so going back was not an issue, unless it Snowed
four or five inches over night, and I now had to wait for others to walk
on the walk ways to make a path I could follow with a Cane.


However, if anyone has this device, or had something like it in the
past, I would be curious to hear of your experiences with it.



Grumpy Dave














Re: Envision AI versus Supersense?

Kimsan
 

I'm no way making fun of you, I just had to laugh at "it told me there was a man in the room, then I figured out that it saw
my reflection in the mirror." 🤣

Kimsan Song
kimsansong@icloud.com
If you are into HipHop or R&B, I invite you to subscribe to my youtube artist channel at
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFzrNcgBfHguK-LnnJMMylA
Also, you may follow me on twitter:
https://twitter.com/kims4ns0ng

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:55 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?

Sorry, I can't give a good answer with my limited use of SuperSence. I remember I tried the object recognition inside and it did recognize chairs some furniture, but out side it only recognized trees. When I tried it in my bedroom, it told me there was a man in the room, then I figured out that it saw my reflection in the mirror.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Burnham" <troyburnham34@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?


Loy,


I also have seeing AI, but the main function I'm looking for right now is to be able to scan an area for certain objects, like a chair for example and for the app to tell me when it detects it and what it is.
I've had seeing AI for a while and I don't believe it has this capability unless its been added recently in one of the later updates because I haven't used the app in a while. If you've used Envision AI and Supersense which one does the best job at scanning for specific objects?


Of course I know that seeing AI is free and the other 2 apps are not, but even though I'm just looking for object recognition right now I'd use whatever app I choose for more than that so I wouldn't mind paying the subscription fee.


Troy


On 5/6/2021 9:18 PM, Loy wrote:
Seeing AI works well for me. I also have Envision and I have tried
SuperSence for a 7 day trial. With my limited use I don't see much
difference. Envision is much cheaper than Super Sense and Seeing AI is
Free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Burnham" <troyburnham34@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?


Hi all,

If anyone is familiar with the 2 apps in the subject line I'd like to
hear your comments. It looks to me like they may both do about the
same thing and I'd like to see if there's any advantages of one versus
the other before possibly deciding to use one or the other. I'm aware
that at least Invision has a 14-day trial and I had that reset the
other day because I installed the app on my phone a while back and
either through me doing something or just by being installed the trial
started and ran out before I was ready to evaluate it, but I can't
tell if Supersense has a trial period or not. I may've ruined the
trial period on it as well for the same reason, just opening it to see
how it works and then figuring that the trial period wouldn't continue
until I opened it again. I know, that was the wrong assumption.

From a podcast I listened to about supersense it sounds like it
would be the easier of the 2 apps to use but I'm not sure.

Thanks.

Troy












Re: Envision AI versus Supersense?

Troy Burnham
 

Thanks Loy. Since you said that Supersense has a 7-day trial I'll just contact them and see if they'll restore the trial. If not, I believe it was Supersense that I evaluated very briefly one day by opening it and just standing and turning around in the room I was in at the time. It did recognize chairs where I knew they'd be, my computer desk, and a couple of doors. So if Supersense won't renew my trial I'll just go with that and try Invision and see how it does.


Troy

On 5/6/2021 9:54 PM, Loy wrote:
Sorry, I can't give a good answer with my limited use of SuperSence. I
remember I tried the object recognition inside and it did recognize chairs
some furniture, but out side it only recognized trees. When I tried it in my
bedroom, it told me there was a man in the room, then I figured out that it
saw my reflection in the mirror.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Burnham" <troyburnham34@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?


Loy,


I also have seeing AI, but the main function I'm looking for right now
is to be able to scan an area for certain objects, like a chair for
example and for the app to tell me when it detects it and what it is.
I've had seeing AI for a while and I don't believe it has this
capability unless its been added recently in one of the later updates
because I haven't used the app in a while. If you've used Envision AI
and Supersense which one does the best job at scanning for specific objects?


Of course I know that seeing AI is free and the other 2 apps are not,
but even though I'm just looking for object recognition right now I'd
use whatever app I choose for more than that so I wouldn't mind paying
the subscription fee.


Troy


On 5/6/2021 9:18 PM, Loy wrote:
Seeing AI works well for me. I also have Envision and I have tried
SuperSence for a 7 day trial. With my limited use I don't see much
difference. Envision is much cheaper than Super Sense and Seeing AI is
Free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Burnham" <troyburnham34@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?


Hi all,

If anyone is familiar with the 2 apps in the subject line I'd like to
hear your comments. It looks to me like they may both do about the same
thing and I'd like to see if there's any advantages of one versus the
other before possibly deciding to use one or the other. I'm aware that
at least Invision has a 14-day trial and I had that reset the other day
because I installed the app on my phone a while back and either through
me doing something or just by being installed the trial started and ran
out before I was ready to evaluate it, but I can't tell if Supersense
has a trial period or not. I may've ruined the trial period on it as
well for the same reason, just opening it to see how it works and then
figuring that the trial period wouldn't continue until I opened it
again. I know, that was the wrong assumption.

From a podcast I listened to about supersense it sounds like it would
be the easier of the 2 apps to use but I'm not sure.

Thanks.

Troy


















Re: Envision AI versus Supersense?

Loy
 

Sorry, I can't give a good answer with my limited use of SuperSence. I
remember I tried the object recognition inside and it did recognize chairs
some furniture, but out side it only recognized trees. When I tried it in my
bedroom, it told me there was a man in the room, then I figured out that it
saw my reflection in the mirror.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Burnham" <troyburnham34@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?


Loy,


I also have seeing AI, but the main function I'm looking for right now
is to be able to scan an area for certain objects, like a chair for
example and for the app to tell me when it detects it and what it is.
I've had seeing AI for a while and I don't believe it has this
capability unless its been added recently in one of the later updates
because I haven't used the app in a while. If you've used Envision AI
and Supersense which one does the best job at scanning for specific objects?


Of course I know that seeing AI is free and the other 2 apps are not,
but even though I'm just looking for object recognition right now I'd
use whatever app I choose for more than that so I wouldn't mind paying
the subscription fee.


Troy


On 5/6/2021 9:18 PM, Loy wrote:
Seeing AI works well for me. I also have Envision and I have tried
SuperSence for a 7 day trial. With my limited use I don't see much
difference. Envision is much cheaper than Super Sense and Seeing AI is
Free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Burnham" <troyburnham34@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?


Hi all,

If anyone is familiar with the 2 apps in the subject line I'd like to
hear your comments. It looks to me like they may both do about the same
thing and I'd like to see if there's any advantages of one versus the
other before possibly deciding to use one or the other. I'm aware that
at least Invision has a 14-day trial and I had that reset the other day
because I installed the app on my phone a while back and either through
me doing something or just by being installed the trial started and ran
out before I was ready to evaluate it, but I can't tell if Supersense
has a trial period or not. I may've ruined the trial period on it as
well for the same reason, just opening it to see how it works and then
figuring that the trial period wouldn't continue until I opened it
again. I know, that was the wrong assumption.

From a podcast I listened to about supersense it sounds like it would
be the easier of the 2 apps to use but I'm not sure.

Thanks.

Troy












Re: Envision AI versus Supersense?

Troy Burnham
 

Loy,


I also have seeing AI, but the main function I'm looking for right now is to be able to scan an area for certain objects, like a chair for example and for the app to tell me when it detects it and what it is. I've had seeing AI for a while and I don't believe it has this capability unless its been added recently in one of the later updates because I haven't used the app in a while. If you've used Envision AI and Supersense which one does the best job at scanning for specific objects?


Of course I know that seeing AI is free and the other 2 apps are not, but even though I'm just looking for object recognition right now I'd use whatever app I choose for more than that so I wouldn't mind paying the subscription fee.


Troy

On 5/6/2021 9:18 PM, Loy wrote:
Seeing AI works well for me. I also have Envision and I have tried
SuperSence for a 7 day trial. With my limited use I don't see much
difference. Envision is much cheaper than Super Sense and Seeing AI is Free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Burnham" <troyburnham34@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Envision AI versus Supersense?


Hi all,

If anyone is familiar with the 2 apps in the subject line I'd like to
hear your comments. It looks to me like they may both do about the same
thing and I'd like to see if there's any advantages of one versus the
other before possibly deciding to use one or the other. I'm aware that
at least Invision has a 14-day trial and I had that reset the other day
because I installed the app on my phone a while back and either through
me doing something or just by being installed the trial started and ran
out before I was ready to evaluate it, but I can't tell if Supersense
has a trial period or not. I may've ruined the trial period on it as
well for the same reason, just opening it to see how it works and then
figuring that the trial period wouldn't continue until I opened it
again. I know, that was the wrong assumption.

From a podcast I listened to about supersense it sounds like it would
be the easier of the 2 apps to use but I'm not sure.

Thanks.

Troy











Re: Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Janet
 

HI Niner,

Just out of curiosity how long does this Strap device go down the chest?

 

Janet  

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 6:35 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello Mich,

 

A cane or a dog won't necessarily keep you from falling off a platform, but they will give you the information you need to make a commonsense decision. They do say that the Strap device will be able to provide feedback as to whether it is a shorter or a deeper step, and the sensors will detect even minoot changes of elevation, for instance from sidewalk to grass.

 

If you don't like vibrations though, this may not be for you.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:19 PM Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:

Hi all after looking around on the strap.tech websight and looking at there faq and other things I would be interested in trying this out but I wouldn’t really pay 500 for it. I am a Seeing Eye dog user and some of the things that I would like to know is will this keep you from as others have said falling in to holes, off traine platforms, or other things where a dog is trained to do? Also the idea that it uses haptic feedback and not audio or voice feed back is kind of interesting as well since I have that feture on my I phone 8 turned off since I found it distracting and annoying. I mutch prefer audio feedback and would struggle with the different vibrations and knowing what they meen. I am not really a fan of that kind of feedback as it is. These are just my inishel thoughts after giving the websight a quick look. From Mich.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: May 6, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello John,

 

No, it can't tell you about doors, but it will tell you about obstacles, and would work to tell you that you're walking, for instance, through a door. The best mobility tool for finding a door quickly is a dog, when they choose to find the door, that is. You can do so with a cane, but often that requires a lot of trailing and exploration. So you could do the same with strap, but I would probably carry an ID cane or something similar for situations where I do want more tactile feedback of my surroundings. Which isn't very often by the way, and before anyone asks, I do the same thing as a dog user as well.

 

Thanks.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 3:32 PM John Holcomb II <jhii926@...> wrote:

hmmm.

Interesting.

I absolutely love android for this reason (not that I don’t use iOS), because of how much haptic I can get.

So it could tell me where doors are that kinda thing?

Great. Now  if only it could tell me when  somebody is talking to me in the store, that would be even better!

Then I could communicate on the best way to talk to me so I could conduct my business.

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 6:26 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Which is another reason why this device can help you, John, as it doesn't rely on hearing. You would still probably require assistance crossing streets, but would not be as dependent on your hearing for echo location because of the way it works through haptics.

 

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 8:25 AM John Holcomb II <jhii926@...> wrote:

Then you got people like me who hearing isn’t good enough to be able to walk down a street or anything else on my own.

Not safely, anyway.

Because I  can’t localize sound  or tell how far away cars and other things are with the hearing aids I use.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!

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