Date   

Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 12:24 PM, Gene wrote:
When designing default settings, they should be designed to allow the best experience for the unknowledgeable user.
-
Gene, who determines what those are?

There is always someone who will complain about any choice for a default setting.  What you find marvelous and immensely useful others will find a grand PITA.

There is seldom any default setting that is "ideal" because there is always someone (generally many someones) in the user base who want just the opposite.

And, I'm sorry, but if people won't speak up and ask how to get what they want, in any area of life, they're not going to get it.  Technology is no different than anything else, if it isn't doing what you want or need it to do you need to ask about how to change it.  That's exactly what happened here, and is what should happen.

For those that have a problem that is clearly a software bug or a feature request (or change to feature request) then it is incumbent upon them to communicate that to the developers, and NVAccess makes that incredibly easy with its GitHub templates for those purposes.  I also have converted these to MS-Word, should anyone want the templates, so that you can take your time and compose the whole thing, at your leisure, in MS-Word and then just copy and paste the whole thing into GitHub when the time comes rather than even trying to edit the issue/feature request templates in a web browser.  Getting help or change is a two-sided affair, at least if you want to try to get the change you want or need.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

It is a good assumption that it is a problem for a lot of people. How many people studhy the punctuation/symbol dialog enough to know that you can adjust the settings for page break there. Not many. As evidence, why were you the only one on the entire list to suggest it? I doubt that most NVDA users even know it exists. I knew it did, but I thought of it as a punctuation dialog not extending to the thousands of emoji and ASCII symbols present. I looked at it last in a very old version of NVDA and had only used it to look at punctuation settings.

A lot of NVDA users don't study the screen-reader to know about this obscure feature or to know anything detailed about it. There are much more important aspects of NVDA a lot of people don't know about such as object navigation or add-ons. So why should they know about this obscure feature. I have almost never seen it discussed on the NVDA list and I've been on it for years.

When designing default settings, they should be designed to allow the best experience for the unknowledgeable user.

I really don't want to go through the trouble of learning how to submit a report on Github (spelling) just to submit this one problem when I almost never, if ever, would want to submit anything else. But it is a setting that should be changed. There must be a lot of users of Bookshare around the world who use NVDA and who don't want to hear page break. And many blind people may send scanned material to other blind people who use NVDA which they have scanned with an OCR program and converted to text or RTF.

You probably don't see questions about it for the same reason you don't see questions much about other bad default settings, because a lot of people are intimidated by technology and will just accept it as it is.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 10:52 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Hi all,

RE page-breaks and Bookshare: Bookshare requires that all books which
are scanned by volunteers have hard page-breaks, and that each page be
numbered. This is because of the conversion software which creates a
DAISY book from the .rtf file which is submitted. Each of these books
is marked up by pages. It is vital when proofing books for Bookshare
that page-breaks be announced. Since you can turn the announcement off
in NVDA, it shouldn't be a problem for folks.

As I say, when material is put through either Open Book or Kurzie, it
adds hard page-breaks as if each page were scanned individually.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: Bluetooth earbuds and wireless keyboards

Susie Stageberg <sstageberg2@...>
 

I have a Logitech k380 keyboard that works really well with my phone. It
doesn't have a Numpad, but I haven't felt the lack. Cost under $40 at
Amazon.

Susie


"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." -Eleanor Roosevelt

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Kathy Pingstock
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Bluetooth earbuds and wireless keyboards

Good afternoon to everyone,

I am in the market for Bluetooth earbuds and keyboards, does anyone have
some good recommendations besides apples.

Thank you Kathy


Bluetooth earbuds and wireless keyboards

Kathy Pingstock
 

Good afternoon to everyone,

I am in the market for Bluetooth earbuds and keyboards, does anyone have some good recommendations besides apples.

Thank you Kathy


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

RE page-breaks and Bookshare: Bookshare requires that all books which are scanned by volunteers have hard page-breaks, and that each page be numbered. This is because of the conversion software which creates a DAISY book from the .rtf file which is submitted. Each of these books is marked up by pages. It is vital when proofing books for Bookshare that page-breaks be announced. Since you can turn the announcement off in NVDA, it shouldn't be a problem for folks.

As I say, when material is put through either Open Book or Kurzie, it adds hard page-breaks as if each page were scanned individually.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: Seeking info on a Bluetooth dongle for VR Stream

Laz
 

Hi Norma,

You'llbe hard pressed to find one that doesn't have those pretty
little lights and has speech instead. AFAIK there are none that have
speech feedback unless of course someone had the bright idea of
including a tiny speaker in its design, but I doubt that.

We include directions from a totally blind perspective which allows a
totally blind person to use the ones we sell in an emailmessage. Below
is the portable one we sell,

Back instock! Portable Miccus Swivel Jack RTX Bluetooth
transmitter/receiver for just $49.99! Perfect for making your Victor
Stream or any other device with a headphone jack, able to connect to
your Bluetooth headphones or speaker! Connect it to your computer's
USB port and have it come through your Bluetooth headset or speaker!
The receiver side speaks everything from power on through power off!
It boasts a range of 100 Feet and much more...
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/Miccus-Swivel-Jack-RTX-Bluetooth-TransmitterReceiver_p_18.html

Stay well,

Laz

On 9/14/20, Norma A. Boge <naboge@...> wrote:
Hi group,



I really want to be able to cast my VR Stream to a pair of sleepphones. Can
someone recommend a BT dongle which can be easily used by a totally blind
person? I’ve purchased a dongle years ago but it had lights which indicated
what was happening and this was impossible for me to use independently. So
your suggestions are welcome.



Sempre Avanti,

Norma

Please vote. Vote like your life depends on it.




--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Player/book Reader, Victor
Reader Stream & Trek, blindshell Classic phone, Bluetooth devices, and
accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 07:06 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
My thought is still that one needs to consult the NVDA list for the answer to this problem.
-
Which would have made the most sense.  The dedicated screen-reader groups are there for just that reason and when in-depth digging is likely going to be necessary.

So, for future reference:

NVDA Group Email Addresses
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Seeking info on a Bluetooth dongle for VR Stream

Norma A. Boge
 

Hi group,

 

I really want to be able to cast my VR Stream to a pair of sleepphones. Can someone recommend a BT dongle which can be easily used by a totally blind person? I’ve purchased a dongle years ago but it had lights which indicated what was happening and this was impossible for me to use independently. So your suggestions are welcome.

 

Sempre Avanti,

Norma

Please vote. Vote like your life depends on it.


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

I did a little checking last night. This problem may affect a lot more users than we thought. In Bookshare, it appears to me that they want books submitted as RTF files. I saved a test file using Openbook as an RTF file and, when reading it in Word and Wordpad, NVDA announces page break.

I understand from your explanation why the page breaks are left in buy Kurzweil and Openbook. Are they left in by other popular OCR programs like Fine Reader and Omnipage, which mayy have a different name now? But I see no reason why NVDA should announce page breaks when reading except in the all punctuation setting. None is currently the default. You don't move by page by listening for page break to be announced in a Word processor. You use the move by page command. JAWS doesn't announce page breaks, at least with punctuation set to none. I haven't checked other settings. It is no more necessary for editing in an RTF file or a text file placed in a word processor to hear this announcement than it is when editing in Word with a Word document, where it isn't announced.

The current setting does no good in general as far as I can see, and it may be really annoying and inconveniencing a lot of people who use NVDA for reading bookshare books around the world.

It is important that this setting be changed to all by default, not none.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:42 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Did you read my messages? I believe I said to use the filter by edit field
in the dialog. In that edit field, type page break and you will see only
that symbol when you tab back to the list.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 6:21 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Good and wonderful morning, all,

Now, here's our solution, right here. What did I say about the cat in
the dairy? If I were the original poster, I'd do this when in notepad.
That way the configuration would be saved for that program only. I
don't think first-letter navigation works in that huge list, so you
just have to persevere and keep arrowing down till you find it. There
may be an easier way, but I don't know it.

Take care guys, I think this here topic hath been solved.

Just a suggestion, you may want to download that little braille
translation program from APH, send-to-braille. It is also a back
translator. See if converting your .brf files with Send-to-braille
leaves out the page-breaks. Till then, turn it off in NVDA.

Ann P.


Original message:
Hi everyone. Sorry I'm late to the party. I only caught the tail end of this thread, so if you folks have already figured this out, please just hit delete. I had this problem with long strings of equals signs in a document that I was reading with NVDA, but the same thing worked for me in NVDA when I told it to not say page break. I did the following:
1. With NVDA running, hit the NVDA key with N. In my case, NVDA key was the insert key.
2. Down arrow once and you will reach preferences submenu, and hit right arrow.
3. Arrow down twice and you will reach punctuation/symbol pronunciation.
4. You will land on a list of 3359 different symbols that you can change the pronunciation of by NVDA. Page break is symbol number 3225 on this gigantic list in my version of NVDA which is March 1, 2019.
5. Once you finally find page break, hit tab one time and NVDA will say "change selected symbol grouping." Now, just hit the spacebar, and NVDA will say "Selection removed."
6. Now, just tab to the okay button and hit enter. After doing that, you might be thrown completely out of the NVDA menus. Just go back into them with NVDA key plus N, arrow down to save configuration and hit enter. Now, when you read your document either with arrows or with say all, NVDA will not say Page Break.
Hope this helps someone.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad
Then we do know. That proves my point. Its clear that in converting the files, the page breaks are left in. I remember that message now, but since it wasn't important in determining what the problem was, I didn't try to remember it.
I wasn't concerned with how the file had been created. I had seen the problem before, I recognized the description, and I found, after Ann made her valuable suggestion, how to set NVDA not to announce page breaks.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad
On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:
though we don't know that and that it was exported from another program.-
Yes, Gene, we do. I make a point of reading each and every message that's
come in on a topic before replying. In response to my questions and earlier speculation came this response:
https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/message/92835
It could not be more clear how the file that was being read made its way to the plain text format being read in Notepad.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041
Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.
~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com







--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

Did you read my messages? I believe I said to use the filter by edit field in the dialog. In that edit field, type page break and you will see only that symbol when you tab back to the list.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Parsons
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 6:21 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Good and wonderful morning, all,

Now, here's our solution, right here. What did I say about the cat in
the dairy? If I were the original poster, I'd do this when in notepad.
That way the configuration would be saved for that program only. I
don't think first-letter navigation works in that huge list, so you
just have to persevere and keep arrowing down till you find it. There
may be an easier way, but I don't know it.

Take care guys, I think this here topic hath been solved.

Just a suggestion, you may want to download that little braille
translation program from APH, send-to-braille. It is also a back
translator. See if converting your .brf files with Send-to-braille
leaves out the page-breaks. Till then, turn it off in NVDA.

Ann P.


Original message:
Hi everyone. Sorry I'm late to the party. I only caught the tail end of this thread, so if you folks have already figured this out, please just hit delete. I had this problem with long strings of equals signs in a document that I was reading with NVDA, but the same thing worked for me in NVDA when I told it to not say page break. I did the following:
1. With NVDA running, hit the NVDA key with N. In my case, NVDA key was the insert key.
2. Down arrow once and you will reach preferences submenu, and hit right arrow.
3. Arrow down twice and you will reach punctuation/symbol pronunciation.
4. You will land on a list of 3359 different symbols that you can change the pronunciation of by NVDA. Page break is symbol number 3225 on this gigantic list in my version of NVDA which is March 1, 2019.
5. Once you finally find page break, hit tab one time and NVDA will say "change selected symbol grouping." Now, just hit the spacebar, and NVDA will say "Selection removed."
6. Now, just tab to the okay button and hit enter. After doing that, you might be thrown completely out of the NVDA menus. Just go back into them with NVDA key plus N, arrow down to save configuration and hit enter. Now, when you read your document either with arrows or with say all, NVDA will not say Page Break.
Hope this helps someone.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad
Then we do know. That proves my point. Its clear that in converting the files, the page breaks are left in. I remember that message now, but since it wasn't important in determining what the problem was, I didn't try to remember it.
I wasn't concerned with how the file had been created. I had seen the problem before, I recognized the description, and I found, after Ann made her valuable suggestion, how to set NVDA not to announce page breaks.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad
On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:
though we don't know that and that it was exported from another program.-
Yes, Gene, we do. I make a point of reading each and every message that's
come in on a topic before replying. In response to my questions and earlier speculation came this response:
https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/message/92835
It could not be more clear how the file that was being read made its way to the plain text format being read in Notepad.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041
Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.
~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com







--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Ann Parsons
 

Good and wonderful morning, all,

Now, here's our solution, right here. What did I say about the cat in the dairy? If I were the original poster, I'd do this when in notepad. That way the configuration would be saved for that program only. I don't think first-letter navigation works in that huge list, so you just have to persevere and keep arrowing down till you find it. There may be an easier way, but I don't know it.

Take care guys, I think this here topic hath been solved.

Just a suggestion, you may want to download that little braille translation program from APH, send-to-braille. It is also a back translator. See if converting your .brf files with Send-to-braille leaves out the page-breaks. Till then, turn it off in NVDA.

Ann P.


Original message:

Hi everyone. Sorry I'm late to the party. I only caught the tail end of this thread, so if you folks have already figured this out, please just hit delete. I had this problem with long strings of equals signs in a document that I was reading with NVDA, but the same thing worked for me in NVDA when I told it to not say page break. I did the following:
1. With NVDA running, hit the NVDA key with N. In my case, NVDA key was the insert key.
2. Down arrow once and you will reach preferences submenu, and hit right arrow.
3. Arrow down twice and you will reach punctuation/symbol pronunciation.
4. You will land on a list of 3359 different symbols that you can change the pronunciation of by NVDA. Page break is symbol number 3225 on this gigantic list in my version of NVDA which is March 1, 2019.
5. Once you finally find page break, hit tab one time and NVDA will say "change selected symbol grouping." Now, just hit the spacebar, and NVDA will say "Selection removed."
6. Now, just tab to the okay button and hit enter. After doing that, you might be thrown completely out of the NVDA menus. Just go back into them with NVDA key plus N, arrow down to save configuration and hit enter. Now, when you read your document either with arrows or with say all, NVDA will not say Page Break.
Hope this helps someone.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad
Then we do know. That proves my point. Its clear that in converting the files, the page breaks are left in. I remember that message now, but since it wasn't important in determining what the problem was, I didn't try to remember it.
I wasn't concerned with how the file had been created. I had seen the problem before, I recognized the description, and I found, after Ann made her valuable suggestion, how to set NVDA not to announce page breaks.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad
On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:
though we don't know that and that it was exported from another program.-
Yes, Gene, we do. I make a point of reading each and every message that's
come in on a topic before replying. In response to my questions and earlier speculation came this response:
https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/message/92835
It could not be more clear how the file that was being read made its way to the plain text format being read in Notepad.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041
Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.
~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com







--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

I think what you're seeing here, Brian is hard page-breaks which are put into a document by Kurzie as if each page were separately scanned. This allows the program to keep the page length and amount of text on the page corresponding with the printed page. The reason NVDA is announcing the hard page-breaks is because usually in a written document, the only page-breaks are soft ones, put in by Word or Notepad.

Hard Page-breaks are announced by NVDA because this is a feature which is needed by some folks, especially those who do editing for Bookshare. Bookshare requires that a book have pages and page numbers and when you're working with a scanned file of a book, the OCR software does put in hard page-breaks. That's why this is occurring when she translates the file from Braille to text.

My thought is still that one needs to consult the NVDA list for the answer to this problem. The announcement of hard page-breaks can be turned off in NVDA, and if I knew how, I'd tell everyone. My only suggestion is to consult the actual horse, as in "from the horse's mouth". <smiling> Hmmm, Let me see if I have Quentin whosits' email somewhere around here. We'll get this problem solved handily.

<rueful grin> I should never try to write coherently after say 3:00 in the afternoon. I do my best work between 05:00 and noon. By 3:00, I'm fading, and by evening, I tend to get tired and cranky. Sorry about that.

I do still stand by my assertion that one shouldn't remove page-breaks. It makes it so hard to search a document which doesn't have definite pages in it. Maybe it's just my seventeen years of proofing for Bookshare.

Have a great day.

Ann P.


Original message:

Ann,
Calm down!! It would be odd, very odd, for NVDA to announce something in the punctuation class that no other screen reader does, or this would crop up far more often than in this isolated circumstance.
You can believe what you wish to believe. I believe there's something peculiar in how the file is being created by the translation software, not NVDA. I've been around many an MS-Word document, with page breaks, that when being read does not announce their presence in continuous reading because that white space is not relevant.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041
Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.
~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com
--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Steven Johnson
 

Hi everyone. Sorry I'm late to the party. I only caught the tail end of this thread, so if you folks have already figured this out, please just hit delete. I had this problem with long strings of equals signs in a document that I was reading with NVDA, but the same thing worked for me in NVDA when I told it to not say page break. I did the following:
1. With NVDA running, hit the NVDA key with N. In my case, NVDA key was the insert key.
2. Down arrow once and you will reach preferences submenu, and hit right arrow.
3. Arrow down twice and you will reach punctuation/symbol pronunciation.
4. You will land on a list of 3359 different symbols that you can change the pronunciation of by NVDA. Page break is symbol number 3225 on this gigantic list in my version of NVDA which is March 1, 2019.
5. Once you finally find page break, hit tab one time and NVDA will say "change selected symbol grouping." Now, just hit the spacebar, and NVDA will say "Selection removed."
6. Now, just tab to the okay button and hit enter. After doing that, you might be thrown completely out of the NVDA menus. Just go back into them with NVDA key plus N, arrow down to save configuration and hit enter. Now, when you read your document either with arrows or with say all, NVDA will not say Page Break.

Hope this helps someone.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:25 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Then we do know. That proves my point. Its clear that in converting the files, the page breaks are left in. I remember that message now, but since it wasn't important in determining what the problem was, I didn't try to remember it.

I wasn't concerned with how the file had been created. I had seen the problem before, I recognized the description, and I found, after Ann made her valuable suggestion, how to set NVDA not to announce page breaks.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:
though we don't know that and that it was exported from another program.-
Yes, Gene, we do. I make a point of reading each and every message that's
come in on a topic before replying. In response to my questions and earlier speculation came this response:
https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/message/92835

It could not be more clear how the file that was being read made its way to the plain text format being read in Notepad.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

Then we do know. That proves my point. Its clear that in converting the files, the page breaks are left in. I remember that message now, but since it wasn't important in determining what the problem was, I didn't try to remember it.

I wasn't concerned with how the file had been created. I had seen the problem before, I recognized the description, and I found, after Ann made her valuable suggestion, how to set NVDA not to announce page breaks.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 10:12 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:
though we don't know that and that it was exported from another program.-
Yes, Gene, we do. I make a point of reading each and every message that's come in on a topic before replying. In response to my questions and earlier speculation came this response: https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/message/92835

It could not be more clear how the file that was being read made its way to the plain text format being read in Notepad.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:
though we don't know that and that it was exported from another program.
-
Yes, Gene, we do.   I make a point of reading each and every message that's come in on a topic before replying.  In response to my questions and earlier speculation came this response:  https://techtalk.groups.io/g/main/message/92835 

It could not be more clear how the file that was being read made its way to the plain text format being read in Notepad.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

A minor correction. I see that the person did specify Notepad as the program being used.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

I am not saying you are wrong that you have read a lot of documents and not
heard page break announced. But the problem occurs when you export a
document from Openbook to a text file. I don't know what other programs
leave page breaks in the file when you export or save them in text format
from another format. Other list members may want to discuss that.

I also don't know if this problem occurs if you read a text file in Word or
in many other word processors. I do know that if you read a text file
exported from Openbook in Notepad, that the page break is spoken. The
person didn't explain what program she is using to read the document. We
dohn't know the history of the document, whether someone sent it to her, or
whether she exported it in text format from a program nor what program she
is using to read the program.

But the problem does make perfect sense. If the page breaks are retained,
they will be shown in notepad as if they were revealed codes and NVDA speaks
them unless you make the adjustment I discussed in earlier messages. If the
person does what has been suggested, the problem will be solved.

My guess is that the person is using Notepad to read the file, though we
don't know that and that it was exported from another program. She may not
know the history of the file if it were sent to her.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 07:14 PM, Gene wrote:
Are my messages being completely ignored in the debate by both of you?-
No, Gene, they're not. But the situation makes no sense at all.

I've been around I can't say how many files being read by NVDA, with
multiple pages, with page breaks in "read all" mode and never recall a page
break being announced.

I will say it one more time, and I'm done: I doubt very, very much that
this is NVDA, per se. There is something odd about the source material. It
happens. Yet no one wants to acknowledge that, it seems.

I could be wrong, and I'll admit that, but it's something worth considering.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

I just checked. I opened a text file exported from Openbook in Microsoft Word and page breaks are announced by NVDA. It is reasonable to assume that this will happen in general when reading a text document containing page breaks in a word processor.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

I am not saying you are wrong that you have read a lot of documents and not
heard page break announced. But the problem occurs when you export a
document from Openbook to a text file. I don't know what other programs
leave page breaks in the file when you export or save them in text format
from another format. Other list members may want to discuss that.

I also don't know if this problem occurs if you read a text file in Word or
in many other word processors. I do know that if you read a text file
exported from Openbook in Notepad, that the page break is spoken. The
person didn't explain what program she is using to read the document. We
dohn't know the history of the document, whether someone sent it to her, or
whether she exported it in text format from a program nor what program she
is using to read the program.

But the problem does make perfect sense. If the page breaks are retained,
they will be shown in notepad as if they were revealed codes and NVDA speaks
them unless you make the adjustment I discussed in earlier messages. If the
person does what has been suggested, the problem will be solved.

My guess is that the person is using Notepad to read the file, though we
don't know that and that it was exported from another program. She may not
know the history of the file if it were sent to her.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 07:14 PM, Gene wrote:
Are my messages being completely ignored in the debate by both of you?-
No, Gene, they're not. But the situation makes no sense at all.

I've been around I can't say how many files being read by NVDA, with
multiple pages, with page breaks in "read all" mode and never recall a page
break being announced.

I will say it one more time, and I'm done: I doubt very, very much that
this is NVDA, per se. There is something odd about the source material. It
happens. Yet no one wants to acknowledge that, it seems.

I could be wrong, and I'll admit that, but it's something worth considering.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

I am not saying you are wrong that you have read a lot of documents and not heard page break announced. But the problem occurs when you export a document from Openbook to a text file. I don't know what other programs leave page breaks in the file when you export or save them in text format from another format. Other list members may want to discuss that.

I also don't know if this problem occurs if you read a text file in Word or in many other word processors. I do know that if you read a text file exported from Openbook in Notepad, that the page break is spoken. The person didn't explain what program she is using to read the document. We dohn't know the history of the document, whether someone sent it to her, or whether she exported it in text format from a program nor what program she is using to read the program.

But the problem does make perfect sense. If the page breaks are retained, they will be shown in notepad as if they were revealed codes and NVDA speaks them unless you make the adjustment I discussed in earlier messages. If the person does what has been suggested, the problem will be solved.

My guess is that the person is using Notepad to read the file, though we don't know that and that it was exported from another program. She may not know the history of the file if it were sent to her.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 6:53 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 07:14 PM, Gene wrote:
Are my messages being completely ignored in the debate by both of you?-
No, Gene, they're not. But the situation makes no sense at all.

I've been around I can't say how many files being read by NVDA, with multiple pages, with page breaks in "read all" mode and never recall a page break being announced.

I will say it one more time, and I'm done: I doubt very, very much that this is NVDA, per se. There is something odd about the source material. It happens. Yet no one wants to acknowledge that, it seems.

I could be wrong, and I'll admit that, but it's something worth considering.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 07:14 PM, Gene wrote:
Are my messages being completely ignored in the debate by both of you?
-
No, Gene, they're not.  But the situation makes no sense at all.

I've been around I can't say how many files being read by NVDA, with multiple pages, with page breaks in "read all" mode and never recall a page break being announced.

I will say it one more time, and I'm done:  I doubt very, very much that this is NVDA, per se.  There is something odd about the source material.  It happens.  Yet no one wants to acknowledge that, it seems.

I could be wrong, and I'll admit that, but it's something worth considering.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Gene
 

I just checked and my messages are showing up online, just as they should be. Then why are they not being referenced or the information not being used in discussing the question. I experimented after seeing Ann's suggestion yesterday and discussed the solution to the problem I found.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 6:14 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Are my messages being completely ignored in the debate by both of you? I
explained the situation yesterday. Are my messages not showing up on line?

First, the dialog being discussed covers infinitely more than just
punctuation. I had thought it was just for punctuation, but a quick looked
showed that it covered emoji, and many other symbols than punctuation.

Again, if you find the page break symbol in the list and set its occurrence
to all, then set your punctuation level to below all, page break will not be
spoken.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:35 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] how to get rid of page breaks in note pad

Ann,

Calm down!! It would be odd, very odd, for NVDA to announce
something in the punctuation class that no other screen reader does, or this
would crop up far more often than in this isolated circumstance.

You can believe what you wish to believe. I believe there's
something peculiar in how the file is being created by the translation
software, not NVDA. I've been around many an MS-Word document, with page
breaks, that when being read does not announce their presence in continuous
reading because that white space is not relevant.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com