Date   

Small problem with Outlook 2016.

SK22
 

I’m running Windows 10 with Outlook 2016 and JAWS.  I used to be able to move the cursor down the list of messages in my in-box and when I found one I wanted to read I would just use the tab key to get to the message.  For some reason I now have to press Enter on the message in order to read it.  Then I have to press Escape to get back to the list of messages.  Is there any way to change back to using the tab key?  Thanks for any help.

 

Shirley


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Gene
 

And it also survives because the main developer or developers take very low wages, something no one would accept at a for profit business where products are designed or continue to be developed.  And NVDA gets grants from companies and organizations as well.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

The concern is that if Narrator became good enough for most users, then
third-party developers might not be able to keep their products viable due
to lack of support despite any amount of effort.  If the built-in screen
reader does most of what you need, then even those who are dissatisfied
might live with the inconvenience when the alternative is having to pay
$1000.  However, if third-party developers do not charge a substantial fee
for their products, then once again they cannot make a profit to support
development.  If the cost of third-party screen readers is too high, and
users will not pay the price because the built-in screen reader does most of
what you need, there is not much room for competition in this kind of
scenario.  The fact is that despite the constant complaining about the cost
of JAWS, screen reading software is a specialized market with limited profit
margins.  Even NVDA could probably not survive without donations.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor" <victorelawrence@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


That's why I support competition and choice if other screen readers
can survive.  However, it'll be up to companies like VFO to keep
improving JAWS and WindowEyes if they hope to keep those screen
readers viable.

Victor

On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
> This is sort of like saying why bother having more than one of any type of
> application.  Why bother having multiple audio editors, file managers,
> text
> editors, and so on.  It comes down to the same thing.  No application of a
> given type will have every feature or be capable of meeting everyone's
> requirements.  Sometimes applications which have the same basic function
> use
> different methods to achieve similar results.  And sometimes different
> people simply have different preferences.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Carlos
>   To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:34 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
> Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>
>   Because once again what is good enough for some, is not guaranteed to be
> good enough for all.  Just because one screen reader covers the needs of
> some people, does not mean it will be capable of covering the needs or
> requirements of everyone.  What happens when the built-in screen reader
> does
> not work correctly with a particular website or application?  If you have
> no
> other options available, then you would simply have to live with the fact
> that you cannot adequately use that resource.  No single screen reader is
> capable of doing everything adequately for everyone.
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Pamela Dominguez
>     To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>     Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:22 PM
>     Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
> Anniversary
> Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>
>     I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if
> the
> screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do
> everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third
> party screen readers go under?  Pam.
>
>     From: Carlos
>     Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
>     To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>     Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
> Anniversary
> Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>     I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: James Bentley
>       To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>       Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
>       Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
> Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>       I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator
> enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.
>
>       James
>
>
>
>       From: Carlos
>       Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
>       To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>       Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
> Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>       Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft
> products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are
> initially more accessible using Narrator.  I'm not saying this will always
> be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that
> it
> is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator.  All it means is
> that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when
> making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party
> screen reader developers.
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         From: heather albright
>         To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>         Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
>         Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
> Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>         I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So
> how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
>           ----- Original Message -----
>           From: Carlos
>           To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
>           Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
>           Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
> Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>           Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
> developers of
>           third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
> Microsoft's
>           changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen
> reader is
>           the first to be made accessible with their own operating system
> and built-in
>           applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well
> Narrator would
>           do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator
> is
> much more
>           likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
>           applications.
>           ----- Original Message -----
>           From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
>           To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>           Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
>           Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
> Anniversary Update:
>           The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
>
>
>
>           >
> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
>           >
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>           >
>           > Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The
> Results Will
>           > Surprise You!
>           >
>           > In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of
> the
> most
>           > popular current screen readers that are available at this
> time.
> The three
>           > screen readers were tested on the most recent version of
> Windows
> 10
>           > anniversary update. This is important because one of the
> screen
> readers is
>           > Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
>           >
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
>           > ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite
> controversial, I think
>           > it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers
> are most
>           > accessible, and even the question of accessibility can
> sometimes
> be up for
>           > debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by
> personal needs
>           > and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I
> used
> for
>           > accessibility in this review.
>           >
>           > What Is Accessibility?
>           >
>           > Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability
> to
> access
>           > that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
> accessibility for
>           > the screen readers that make it difficult to access material
> by
> being
>           > dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out
> which
>           > keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen
> readers make you
>           > use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements
> or
> functions
>           > within applications. So without further ado, here are the
> rankings!
>           >
>           > Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>           >
>           > It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but
> once I did, I
>           > realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
>           > <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the
> company was
>           > finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for
> the blind.
>           > In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen
> reader was that
>           > it did not work with my braille display. I am currently
> working
> with
>           > Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this
> problem can be
>           > resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
> accessible
>           > on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers
> on
> Microsoft
>           > Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox,
> Microsoft
> Word,
>           > Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses
> something
>           > called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing
> caps lock and
>           > space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
> elements, use
>           > Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your
> preferred
>           > preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When
> scan
> mode is
>           > on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that
> includes text,
>           > website elements, and application controls—by using the tab
> key,
> arrowing
>           > around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often
> has
> your
>           > screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering;
> “What am I
>           > saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow
> up and read
>           > the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle
> scan
> mode off
>           > when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to
> pause a music
>           > track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only
> screen reader
>           > that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also
> the
> only
>           > screen reader that was able to read every active element and
> all
> text on
>           > each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is
> the winner!
>           >
>           > Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>           >
>           > NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The
> problem is it
>           > uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work
> at
> this
>           > time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and
> browse modes
>           > by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function
> like
> Narrator’s
>           > scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only
> able
> to read
>           > active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also
> difficult
> to read
>           > text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to
> know
> what you’re
>           > saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you
> had to
>           > switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s
> OK if you
>           > know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t,
> you’re
>           > missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic
> screen
>           > reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing
> browse
>           > mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But
> can
> they keep
>           > up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on
> an
> almost
>           > daily basis?
>           >
>           > JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>           >
>           > This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For
> starters,
>           > the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
> Assistant
>           > which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
> Anniversary
>           > Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had
> to
> uninstall
>           > the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free
> copy of
>           > Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
>           >
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does
> not work
>           > with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This
> makes
>           > Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is
> inexcusable and
>           > unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
> keystroke
>           > combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran
> into
>           > several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating
> navigation bars
>           > on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
>           > <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or
> just
> interested
>           > in convincing people in enterprise and government that they
> are?
>           >
>           > Final Thoughts.
>           >
>           > I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I
> was
> also
>           > pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts.
> I’m now
>           > using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
> continue to
>           > use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only
> continue to
>           > improve. They have one of the most talented group of
> developers
> I’ve ever
>           > seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And
> that’s a
>           > difficult position for me to take. When I first became a
> teacher
> 25 years
>           > ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world
> accessible for
>           > me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great
> deal of
>           > gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re
> not
>           > maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how
> difficult
>           > that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of
> loyalty toward
>           > the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people
> at VFO and
>           > Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can
> turn
> things
>           > around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team
> at
>           > Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but
> seemed more
>           > interested in promoting their own advancement within the field
> of
>           > accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
>           > <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally
> focusing on
>           > their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
> recorded a
>           > podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
> anniversary
>           > update. I hope you give it a listen.
>           >
>           > The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be
> taken
> as such.
>           >
>           > James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team
> in the
>           > summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology
> across all
>           > platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12
> educator, James
>           > brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an
> effort
> to help
>           > listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
> empowerment
>           > through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently
> lives
> in
>           > Florida.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     No virus found in this message.
>     Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>     Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date:
> 08/09/16
>
>
>







Re: windows 10 update question

Carlos
 


Yes, supposedly Classic Shell was updated to work with the Anniversary update.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 10:41 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] windows 10 update question

Does anyone know if windows classic shell still works with the knew windows 10? My friend who I try to help is wondering as she has been useing this till she obtains access to her computer training course in nov. I do not know because, the update has not come across my machines! Her machine has not received the update either but, she is worried! She is not very computer literen! SO the classic shell helped her otherwise,  I don't see her using her computer very much! I cant even get her to join lists like this as english is not her first language. I helped her with the classic shell to make her use the computer as it looked like seven. Otherwise, she never touched the computer unless it was to check e-mail that her family sent her.
Thanks, Heather


windows 10 update question

heather albright
 


Does anyone know if windows classic shell still works with the knew windows 10? My friend who I try to help is wondering as she has been useing this till she obtains access to her computer training course in nov. I do not know because, the update has not come across my machines! Her machine has not received the update either but, she is worried! She is not very computer literen! SO the classic shell helped her otherwise,  I don't see her using her computer very much! I cant even get her to join lists like this as english is not her first language. I helped her with the classic shell to make her use the computer as it looked like seven. Otherwise, she never touched the computer unless it was to check e-mail that her family sent her.
Thanks, Heather


Re: MalwareBytes

heather albright
 

It is accessible! I do not know when the new version is coming out that they said would work with screenreaders! Heather

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:55 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] MalwareBytes

Hello,

What's been the consensus about Malware Bytes? Is there a more accessible
version out there than the current download?

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe





Re: Newbie questions for Windows10

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Oh neat, yeah, I didn't know about windoes e. I've also figured out that I can pin areas of interest to some sort of quick access part of the file explorer application, so that helps to get to them a little quicker too. I can press applications key on the file explorer selection on the task bar and using the up and down arrow keys, I also see the ability to jump straight into a folder from that menu.

I still need to do some serious brain tickling to try and get a grasp of the start menu, especially if I could come up with an area of the applications use the most and quickly access them, but moving through the files is certainly a huge help.
Thanks bunches
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 7:57 PM, Thom Spittle wrote:
In Windows 7, there were 2 areas to go to in order to access folders. One was the My Computer area, and the other was the User folder that you spoke of.
In windows 10, if you hit the windows key E, it brings up the windows explorer which seems to combine the two.
It lands you in a frequent folder area that seems to be like the User folder in Windows 7.
I pin folders and network drives here for fast access.
I hope this helps a bit,

Thom

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 3:44 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Newbie questions for Windows10

Okay, so here it goes, my attempt at finding the different things in 10 that I don't particularly care for or understand and hopefully come across some answers. Since there's a number of you who've been playing with it much longer than I, perhaps one of you kind souls can tell me if I'm just being dense or maybe things that just aren't as good/accessible with NVDA as they could stand to be.

Things I'm having the most difficult times with so far are, the start menu and how best to move around in it, add/remove items from it, see what all different bits of information it contains, etc.

One thing in particular I miss is the ability to use the start menu to enter directories such as my user's folder so I can get to downloads, music etc, rather than having to have file explorer always pinned to my taskbar.
On 7, when I press the start button, I could press shift tab and it'd take me to a configurable list that would let me jump into my user's directory, downloads, documents, whatever. This was much easier to configure and reach, compared to now, this weird area that has a calender and a few other things, which seem to be listed under sections.
I've found that you can press enter on these sections and it lets you rename them, but I can't figure out a way to move around them confidently with the arrows. I'm guessing that they show up in something like a grid, so is there a way to configure this menu to be in a list instead? I've also figured out that if you press tab twice, after pressing the start button and it taking you to the cortana search box, it takes you to an alphabetical listing of the different apps and such, where you can use the applications key to perform different things like pinning and unpinning them to the start menu. I've tried to use unpin, to remove things like x-box from this list, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to move around in this little beastie, as currently, it seems terribly cluttered Also, if and when I use the Cortana search box to find an application on my computer, is there a way to turn off the feature that makes it go out to the internet and grab up all the extra results? for now, I have no intention on jabbering to my computer and only really want that search area to be able to quickly type a few characters to find installed applications, so can this be done?
Thank you as always.
Take care.







Re: OLYMPUS LS14 VERSUS LS100

Blaster
 

Well, First off, Not all of the cool features on my ls-14 are
accessible. The spoken menus are great to navigate the devices
options, however, not all of it's features are useable without sighted
assistance. Such as the metronome and tuner, even navigating the
filing system is a little sketchy. The mp3 tutorials posted in this
group not too long ago were very helpful in guiding me to make a
decision to buy the ls14.

I suppose it really depends on what you need a portable recorder for
and what you were hoping to get out of owning one.

On 8/9/16, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
<ukekearuaro@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone:

Ok, I need to grab a recorder and I have been reading bits and pieces of
information on both the LS14 and LS100! Stupid me, I like both <grin>!
However, I can only grab one, yikes!

I'd be interested in hearing from members of the house who have experience
using either one. What do you like in the LS100 that's not there with
LS14?
Conversely, what do you find impressive in LS14?

Whichever I wind up getting, I need it to support SD card up to at least
128GB, although I may play silly and insert a 200GB SD card in it for
giggles.

The LS14, if memory serves, has a 4GB internal memory for storage. I don't
recall how much internal memory the LS100 has! Anyway, I'll keep on hitch
hiking and look forward to reading your thoughtful advice. Much thanks for
all help!!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado







Re: MalwareBytes

Carlos
 

The last couple of versions are reasonably accessible. It just takes a bit of practice to familiarize yourself with navigating the interface. For example, use the Left/Right Arrow keys to select most radio buttons. The list of results is a table type control which you can use the Arrow keys to navigate as well.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <jsoro620@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 9:55 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] MalwareBytes


Hello,

What's been the consensus about Malware Bytes? Is there a more accessible
version out there than the current download?

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe




MalwareBytes

Joe
 

Hello,

What's been the consensus about Malware Bytes? Is there a more accessible
version out there than the current download?

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe


Re: active@ disk image, free version

Carlos
 

That depends on the specific program and whether it was installed into the "current user" profile or the "all users" profile. Most applications usually give you this option during the installation process. If an application was installed into the "all users" profile, then you won't have to reinstall it when using a different account.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melissa" <@MJMarney>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


It turns out that it was the account itself. So I logged in with a Nother user Account and was able to use the programs just fine. Now, I have to reset the settings for the user account some how. I read that it keeps your files, but you have to reinstall your programs. I'm not looking forward to that.

Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:

I'm not sure. I have used it in Windows 10 and did not experience this problem.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa" <@MJMarney>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


I just tried that and got the same message/window when I start the program:
Active@ Disk ImageLite 7.0.4 64 bit free license
I even tried to run it using my admin account and got the same
results. I was hoping that maybe there was a newer version ... but
apparently mine is the latest version of the program.
I will have my mom or sister look at the screen for me when they get
home. Ever since I upgraded windows like that, which tell me nothing,
still have the visual aspect to it. Which is really f'ing annoying.

Melissa



On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
No, Active@ Disk Image has a free version which is included in the WinPE
images as well. You might be thinking of Image for Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob" <captinlogic@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
Have you tried reinstalling Active@ Disk Image?

Isn't it shareware and expires after a while? Or was that Windows Image.



OLYMPUS LS14 VERSUS LS100

Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
 

Hi Everyone:

Ok, I need to grab a recorder and I have been reading bits and pieces of
information on both the LS14 and LS100! Stupid me, I like both <grin>!
However, I can only grab one, yikes!

I'd be interested in hearing from members of the house who have experience
using either one. What do you like in the LS100 that's not there with LS14?
Conversely, what do you find impressive in LS14?

Whichever I wind up getting, I need it to support SD card up to at least
128GB, although I may play silly and insert a 200GB SD card in it for
giggles.

The LS14, if memory serves, has a 4GB internal memory for storage. I don't
recall how much internal memory the LS100 has! Anyway, I'll keep on hitch
hiking and look forward to reading your thoughtful advice. Much thanks for
all help!!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Haha, at least for me, it's going to take quite a bit more than even a dramatic improvement in Narrator's accessibility in ITunes to ever call it superior. :)

I can't really speak much towards 8 and how well Narrator worked or didn't work there, but the short time that I used it, I wasn't all that pleased. Already, in the version for 10, I see a huge improvement, at least its responsiveness and ability to help you through the times where you may not have the use of NVDA or something else, so in that, I'm super glad.
Even with as much as I like using 7, I can honestly say that I'd much rather not have to use Narrator unless I absolutely have no other option, so with what I've noticed using it in 10 so far, good on MS.
Pretty awesome stuff so far. hehe

On 8/9/2016 3:55 PM, Carlos wrote:
Still, accessibility with one application is not an indication of superiority. I haven't used iTunes recently so I don't know that it isn't just as accessible with other screen readers.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


OK, this will be it from me about iTunes. But, trust me, if I can use it, so can everyone. I'm still not very good with browse mode, and all that. I plugged the phone into iTunes. First, it asked me to set up iCloud, so, thought,, why not. IE launched, Narrator did read everything, and, to be totally honest, I think it was me, but couldn't figure out, how to even download, so quit that. Now, the fun part. Opened iTunes, again, pressed backup, and the sinking began. Keep in mind, it read evernthing, phone number, serial number, and, this was all without using scan mode. I was just tabbing within the phone. Narrator then said OK button. At this point, I pressed capslock-space, to scan. It said, unable to sink iPhone, error -54. Which, I think I know why it said that, but that's absolutely nothing to do with my tests. And, while I agree that the article was on about edge, iTunes, from what I've played with it, is working, and that is hardly a Microsoft product. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's behind it, but I won't defend them, unless I know. Over all, a great experience, particularly if someone is lost, and they need a non-sighted's help, but I still think some tiny things need improving. A wider range of narrator setting, bigger range of rate and pitch scale, but you get the idea. I'll probably play with it over time, but, people's biggest issue, iTunes is, indeed, a surprise.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what
all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing keys
for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference as
it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the
same > using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go. > Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of > customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key > presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary > Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review!
So how >> does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 >>
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that >>
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with >>
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen
reader >> is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system
and >> built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well
Narrator >> would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator
is >> much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary >> Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The
Results >>> Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the
most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time.
The >>> three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite
controversial, I >>> think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers
are >>> most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes
be >>> up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by
personal >>> needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used
for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off >>>
accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by
being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen
readers >>> make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but
once I >>> did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the
company >>> was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for
the >>> blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen
reader was >>> that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working
with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem
can >>> be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses
something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing
caps >>> lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active >>>
elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan
mode >>> is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that
includes >>> text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has
your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering;
"What am >>> I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow
up and >>> read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan
mode >>> off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to
pause a >>> music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only
screen >>> reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the
only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all
text >>> on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is
the >>> winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The
problem is >>> it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at
this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and
browse >>> modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able
to >>> read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult
to >>> read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know
what >>> you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you
had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's
OK if >>> you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic
screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing
browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can
they >>> keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free
copy >>> of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does
not >>> work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This
makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is
inexcusable >>> and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating
navigation >>> bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was
also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts.
I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only
continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers
I've >>> ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And
that's >>> a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher
25 >>> years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world
accessible >>> for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great
deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of
loyalty >>> toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people
at VFO >>> and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but
seemed >>> more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken
as >>> such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team
in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology
across >>> all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12
educator, >>> James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort
to >>> help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of >>>
empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.









Re: active@ disk image, free version

 

It turns out that it was the account itself. So I logged in with a Nother user Account and was able to use the programs just fine. Now, I have to reset the settings for the user account some how. I read that it keeps your files, but you have to reinstall your programs. I'm not looking forward to that.

Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:

I'm not sure. I have used it in Windows 10 and did not experience this problem.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa" <@MJMarney>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


I just tried that and got the same message/window when I start the program:
Active@ Disk ImageLite 7.0.4 64 bit free license
I even tried to run it using my admin account and got the same
results. I was hoping that maybe there was a newer version ... but
apparently mine is the latest version of the program.
I will have my mom or sister look at the screen for me when they get
home. Ever since I upgraded windows like that, which tell me nothing,
still have the visual aspect to it. Which is really f'ing annoying.

Melissa



On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
No, Active@ Disk Image has a free version which is included in the WinPE
images as well. You might be thinking of Image for Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob" <captinlogic@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
Have you tried reinstalling Active@ Disk Image?

Isn't it shareware and expires after a while? Or was that Windows Image.



Re: Newbie questions for Windows10

Thom Spittle
 

In Windows 7, there were 2 areas to go to in order to access folders. One was the My Computer area, and the other was the User folder that you spoke of.
In windows 10, if you hit the windows key E, it brings up the windows explorer which seems to combine the two.

It lands you in a frequent folder area that seems to be like the User folder in Windows 7.
I pin folders and network drives here for fast access.
I hope this helps a bit,

Thom

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 3:44 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Newbie questions for Windows10

Okay, so here it goes, my attempt at finding the different things in 10 that I don't particularly care for or understand and hopefully come across some answers. Since there's a number of you who've been playing with it much longer than I, perhaps one of you kind souls can tell me if I'm just being dense or maybe things that just aren't as good/accessible with NVDA as they could stand to be.

Things I'm having the most difficult times with so far are, the start menu and how best to move around in it, add/remove items from it, see what all different bits of information it contains, etc.

One thing in particular I miss is the ability to use the start menu to enter directories such as my user's folder so I can get to downloads, music etc, rather than having to have file explorer always pinned to my taskbar.
On 7, when I press the start button, I could press shift tab and it'd take me to a configurable list that would let me jump into my user's directory, downloads, documents, whatever. This was much easier to configure and reach, compared to now, this weird area that has a calender and a few other things, which seem to be listed under sections.
I've found that you can press enter on these sections and it lets you rename them, but I can't figure out a way to move around them confidently with the arrows. I'm guessing that they show up in something like a grid, so is there a way to configure this menu to be in a list instead? I've also figured out that if you press tab twice, after pressing the start button and it taking you to the cortana search box, it takes you to an alphabetical listing of the different apps and such, where you can use the applications key to perform different things like pinning and unpinning them to the start menu. I've tried to use unpin, to remove things like x-box from this list, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to move around in this little beastie, as currently, it seems terribly cluttered Also, if and when I use the Cortana search box to find an application on my computer, is there a way to turn off the feature that makes it go out to the internet and grab up all the extra results? for now, I have no intention on jabbering to my computer and only really want that search area to be able to quickly type a few characters to find installed applications, so can this be done?
Thank you as always.
Take care.


Re: Script Talk.

Carolyn Arnold
 

I will check with my pharmacist, but the site said Rite Aid
has it, and I will tell them that, if they don't have it.
Thanks.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:28 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Script Talk.

its really quite helpful to have Scriptalk on your
perscriptions. Its free, but your pharmacy must be using
Scriptalk for you to get the Envision America Scriptalk
reader. Walmart uses scriptalk, but Walgreen's does not.
You can check with your pharmacy, or call envision America
and see if your pharmacy is using Scriptalk.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carolyn Arnold
<mailto:4carolyna@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:50 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Script Talk.


Do any of you have Script Talk for your
prescriptions? What do you think about it? A friend of mine
just got it and thinks that it will be helpful.



Best from,



Carolyn


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Flor Lynch
 

Even VoiceOver doesn’t work perfectly with all the iOS apps that there are out there. Sometimes an app developer would have to re-design their app to cater for its functionalities, and for how it interprets elements on the screen.) (I mention iOS, because that is what I know sometyhing about. I don’t know much about the Mac OS.)
 

From: Carlos
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
If that day ever comes, you had better hope it works for you in all scenarios.  With every website and application because if the competition disappears due to lack of support, you may not have the option of trying a different screen reader.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I think windows should have a full screenreader for their devices like voice over is for apple! That should be in their marketing platform. They need a better accessibility line like apple too. Narator should not be just some kind of catch up efort or an after thought; someday it will be fully intafrated and not just as a "tool." Heather


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Victor
 

If Microsoft was smart, they'd develop Narrator to the fullest and
donate to NVDA regularly. Developing Narrator to the fullest and
donating to NVDA would be good public relations and it probably makes
good business sense.

Victor

On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
If that day ever comes, you had better hope it works for you in all
scenarios. With every website and application because if the competition
disappears due to lack of support, you may not have the option of trying a
different screen reader.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I think windows should have a full screenreader for their devices like
voice over is for apple! That should be in their marketing platform. They
need a better accessibility line like apple too. Narator should not be just
some kind of catch up efort or an after thought; someday it will be fully
intafrated and not just as a "tool." Heather


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 

If that day ever comes, you had better hope it works for you in all scenarios.  With every website and application because if the competition disappears due to lack of support, you may not have the option of trying a different screen reader.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I think windows should have a full screenreader for their devices like voice over is for apple! That should be in their marketing platform. They need a better accessibility line like apple too. Narator should not be just some kind of catch up efort or an after thought; someday it will be fully intafrated and not just as a "tool." Heather


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

heather albright
 

I think windows should have a full screenreader for their devices like voice over is for apple! That should be in their marketing platform. They need a better accessibility line like apple too. Narator should not be just some kind of catch up efort or an after thought; someday it will be fully intafrated and not just as a "tool." Heather


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Victor
 

You've described the situation very well. Sadly, this is the reality.

Victor

On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
The concern is that if Narrator became good enough for most users, then
third-party developers might not be able to keep their products viable due
to lack of support despite any amount of effort. If the built-in screen
reader does most of what you need, then even those who are dissatisfied
might live with the inconvenience when the alternative is having to pay
$1000. However, if third-party developers do not charge a substantial fee
for their products, then once again they cannot make a profit to support
development. If the cost of third-party screen readers is too high, and
users will not pay the price because the built-in screen reader does most
of
what you need, there is not much room for competition in this kind of
scenario. The fact is that despite the constant complaining about the cost
of JAWS, screen reading software is a specialized market with limited
profit
margins. Even NVDA could probably not survive without donations.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor" <victorelawrence@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


That's why I support competition and choice if other screen readers
can survive. However, it'll be up to companies like VFO to keep
improving JAWS and WindowEyes if they hope to keep those screen
readers viable.

Victor

On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
This is sort of like saying why bother having more than one of any type
of
application. Why bother having multiple audio editors, file managers,
text
editors, and so on. It comes down to the same thing. No application of
a
given type will have every feature or be capable of meeting everyone's
requirements. Sometimes applications which have the same basic function
use
different methods to achieve similar results. And sometimes different
people simply have different preferences.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Because once again what is good enough for some, is not guaranteed to
be
good enough for all. Just because one screen reader covers the needs of
some people, does not mean it will be capable of covering the needs or
requirements of everyone. What happens when the built-in screen reader
does
not work correctly with a particular website or application? If you have
no
other options available, then you would simply have to live with the fact
that you cannot adequately use that resource. No single screen reader is
capable of doing everything adequately for everyone.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Dominguez
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if
the
screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do
everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third
party screen readers go under? Pam.

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator
enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.

James



From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft
products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are
initially more accessible using Narrator. I'm not saying this will
always
be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that
it
is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator. All it means is
that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage
when
making their own products more accessible with Narrator before
third-party
screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review!
So
how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen
reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system
and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well
Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator
is
much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in
Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



>
https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
>
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The
Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of
the
most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this
time.
The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of
Windows
10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the
screen
readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
>
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite
controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers
are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can
sometimes
be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by
personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I
used
for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability
to
access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material
by
being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out
which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen
readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements
or
functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the
rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but
once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the
company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for
the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen
reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently
working
with
> Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this
problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers
on
Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox,
Microsoft
Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses
something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing
caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your
preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When
scan
mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that
includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab
key,
arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often
has
your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering;
“What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just
arrow
up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle
scan
mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to
pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only
screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also
the
only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and
all
text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator
is
the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The
problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work
at
this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and
browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function
like
Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only
able
to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also
difficult
to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to
know
what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you
had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen.
That’s
OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you
don’t,
you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a
fantastic
screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on
fixing
browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But
can
they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on
an
almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For
starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download
Windows10
Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had
to
uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my
free
copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
>
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does
not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor.
This
makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is
inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also
ran
into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating
navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or
just
interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they
are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I
was
also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts.
I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only
continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of
developers
I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say.
And
that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a
teacher
25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world
accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great
deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re
not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how
difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of
loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the
people
at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can
turn
things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team
at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but
seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the
field
of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is
finally
focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be
taken
as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast
team
in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology
across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12
educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an
effort
to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently
lives
in
> Florida.






No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date:
08/09/16