Date   

Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 

The concern is that if Narrator became good enough for most users, then
third-party developers might not be able to keep their products viable due
to lack of support despite any amount of effort. If the built-in screen
reader does most of what you need, then even those who are dissatisfied
might live with the inconvenience when the alternative is having to pay
$1000. However, if third-party developers do not charge a substantial fee
for their products, then once again they cannot make a profit to support
development. If the cost of third-party screen readers is too high, and
users will not pay the price because the built-in screen reader does most of
what you need, there is not much room for competition in this kind of
scenario. The fact is that despite the constant complaining about the cost
of JAWS, screen reading software is a specialized market with limited profit
margins. Even NVDA could probably not survive without donations.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor" <victorelawrence@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


That's why I support competition and choice if other screen readers
can survive. However, it'll be up to companies like VFO to keep
improving JAWS and WindowEyes if they hope to keep those screen
readers viable.

Victor

On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
This is sort of like saying why bother having more than one of any type of
application. Why bother having multiple audio editors, file managers,
text
editors, and so on. It comes down to the same thing. No application of a
given type will have every feature or be capable of meeting everyone's
requirements. Sometimes applications which have the same basic function
use
different methods to achieve similar results. And sometimes different
people simply have different preferences.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Because once again what is good enough for some, is not guaranteed to be
good enough for all. Just because one screen reader covers the needs of
some people, does not mean it will be capable of covering the needs or
requirements of everyone. What happens when the built-in screen reader
does
not work correctly with a particular website or application? If you have
no
other options available, then you would simply have to live with the fact
that you cannot adequately use that resource. No single screen reader is
capable of doing everything adequately for everyone.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Dominguez
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if
the
screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do
everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third
party screen readers go under? Pam.

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator
enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.

James



From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft
products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are
initially more accessible using Narrator. I'm not saying this will always
be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that
it
is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator. All it means is
that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when
making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party
screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So
how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen
reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system
and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well
Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator
is
much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



>
https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
>
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The
Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of
the
most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this
time.
The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of
Windows
10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the
screen
readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
>
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite
controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers
are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can
sometimes
be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by
personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I
used
for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability
to
access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material
by
being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out
which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen
readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements
or
functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the
rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but
once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the
company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for
the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen
reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently
working
with
> Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this
problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers
on
Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox,
Microsoft
Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses
something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing
caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your
preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When
scan
mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that
includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab
key,
arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often
has
your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering;
“What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow
up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle
scan
mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to
pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only
screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also
the
only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and
all
text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is
the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The
problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work
at
this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and
browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function
like
Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only
able
to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also
difficult
to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to
know
what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you
had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s
OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t,
you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic
screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing
browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But
can
they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on
an
almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For
starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had
to
uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free
copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
>
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does
not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This
makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is
inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran
into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating
navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or
just
interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they
are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I
was
also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts.
I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only
continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of
developers
I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And
that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a
teacher
25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world
accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great
deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re
not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how
difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of
loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people
at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can
turn
things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team
at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but
seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field
of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally
focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be
taken
as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team
in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology
across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12
educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an
effort
to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently
lives
in
> Florida.






No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date:
08/09/16



Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 

LOL well what else can you really say when you have no other choices? Either you love VoiceOver or you don't. If you don't, then you either have to live with it or recant your love of the almighty Mac and use something else.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob" <captinlogic@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
No application of a given type will have every feature or be capable of meeting everyone's requirements. Sometimes applications which have the same basic function use different methods to achieve similar results.
Try telling that to all those rabid Mac fans lol. Only one screen reader there; those people seem to think it's the gratest thing since chocolate.


Re: Script Talk.

Rick Alfaro
 

FYI, Humana has also started using ScripTalk as of a month or 2 ago.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Rick Alfaro

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 5:08 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Script Talk.

 

I found on Google that Rite Aid and CVS are two stores. I know also HEB in Texas offers it too.

 

 

Best from,

 

Carolyn

 


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Victor
 

That's why I support competition and choice if other screen readers
can survive. However, it'll be up to companies like VFO to keep
improving JAWS and WindowEyes if they hope to keep those screen
readers viable.

Victor

On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
This is sort of like saying why bother having more than one of any type of
application. Why bother having multiple audio editors, file managers, text
editors, and so on. It comes down to the same thing. No application of a
given type will have every feature or be capable of meeting everyone's
requirements. Sometimes applications which have the same basic function use
different methods to achieve similar results. And sometimes different
people simply have different preferences.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Because once again what is good enough for some, is not guaranteed to be
good enough for all. Just because one screen reader covers the needs of
some people, does not mean it will be capable of covering the needs or
requirements of everyone. What happens when the built-in screen reader does
not work correctly with a particular website or application? If you have no
other options available, then you would simply have to live with the fact
that you cannot adequately use that resource. No single screen reader is
capable of doing everything adequately for everyone.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Dominguez
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if the
screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do
everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third
party screen readers go under? Pam.

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator
enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.

James



From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft
products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are
initially more accessible using Narrator. I'm not saying this will always
be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it
is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator. All it means is
that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when
making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party
screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So
how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen
reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system
and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well
Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is
much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



>
https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
>
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The
Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the
most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time.
The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows
10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen
readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
>
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite
controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers
are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes
be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by
personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used
for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to
access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by
being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out
which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen
readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or
functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the
rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but
once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the
company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for
the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen
reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working
with
> Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this
problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on
Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft
Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses
something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing
caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your
preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan
mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that
includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key,
arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has
your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering;
“What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow
up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan
mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to
pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only
screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the
only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all
text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is
the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The
problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at
this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and
browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like
Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able
to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult
to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know
what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you
had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s
OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t,
you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic
screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing
browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can
they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an
almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For
starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to
uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free
copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does
not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This
makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is
inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran
into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating
navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just
interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they
are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was
also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts.
I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only
continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers
I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And
that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher
25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world
accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great
deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re
not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how
difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of
loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people
at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn
things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team
at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but
seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field
of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally
focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken
as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team
in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology
across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12
educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort
to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives
in
> Florida.






No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date:
08/09/16



Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rob <captinlogic@...>
 

Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
No application of a given type will have every feature or be capable of meeting everyone's requirements. Sometimes applications which have the same basic function use different methods to achieve similar results.
Try telling that to all those rabid Mac fans lol. Only one screen reader there; those people seem to think it's the gratest thing since chocolate.


Uber Accessibility

Victor
 

Please read the following message from Uber:

Victor

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to let you that we recently launched a new accessibility
site, https://accessibility.uber.com/, with the goal of demonstrating
our dedication to people with disabilities and providing a central
place for finding out information about opportunities for people with
disabilities as both riders and drivers, as well as our policies and
requirements of drivers - importantly, explicitly stated and available
to the whole world.

We also provide a direct pathway to contact support, which goes
directly to a dedicated team focused on accessibility and
discrimination issues.

We'll continue to update the site as we launch new accessible products
and features. As always, please do let me know if you have questions.

Thanks,
Malcom Glenn
Uber Public Policy


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


This is sort of like saying why bother having more than one of any type of application.  Why bother having multiple audio editors, file managers, text editors, and so on.  It comes down to the same thing.  No application of a given type will have every feature or be capable of meeting everyone's requirements.  Sometimes applications which have the same basic function use different methods to achieve similar results.  And sometimes different people simply have different preferences.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Because once again what is good enough for some, is not guaranteed to be good enough for all.  Just because one screen reader covers the needs of some people, does not mean it will be capable of covering the needs or requirements of everyone.  What happens when the built-in screen reader does not work correctly with a particular website or application?  If you have no other options available, then you would simply have to live with the fact that you cannot adequately use that resource.  No single screen reader is capable of doing everything adequately for everyone.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if the screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third party screen readers go under?  Pam.
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.
 
James
 
 
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator.  I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator.  All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
> Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
> Florida.





No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date: 08/09/16


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Victor
 

I just hope Narrator and NVDA turn out to be the best screen readers
for Windows users so blind people will no longer have to spend lots of
money or depend on state bureaucrats to buy their screen readers.

Thank God NVDA exists now. If you are reasonably computer literate,
you can get a Windows computer and get sighted help installing NVDA
without spending an arm and a leg or waiting for the state to buy it
for you. Once NVDA is installed, you're good to go! I think that's a
wonderful thing! If Microsoft manages to make Narrator a great screen
reader, so much the better. If other screen readers can survive and
improve, that's great too. I'm always in favor of competition.

VictorOn 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:

Because once again what is good enough for some, is not guaranteed to be
good enough for all. Just because one screen reader covers the needs of
some people, does not mean it will be capable of covering the needs or
requirements of everyone. What happens when the built-in screen reader does
not work correctly with a particular website or application? If you have no
other options available, then you would simply have to live with the fact
that you cannot adequately use that resource. No single screen reader is
capable of doing everything adequately for everyone.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Dominguez
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if the
screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do
everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third
party screen readers go under? Pam.

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator
enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.

James



From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products
so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more
accessible using Narrator. I'm not saying this will always be the case, but
when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any
indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator. All it means is that big
surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making
their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen
reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how
does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen
reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and
built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well
Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is
much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



>
https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
>
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The
Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the
most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time.
The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows
10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen
readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
>
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial,
I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are
most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes
be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal
needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used
for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to
access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by
being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers
make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or
functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the
rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once
I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company
was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the
blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader
was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working
with
> Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem
can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on
Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft
Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses
something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps
lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your
preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan
mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that
includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key,
arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has
your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What
am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up
and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan
mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause
a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen
reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the
only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all
text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the
winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem
is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at
this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and
browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like
Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to
read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to
read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know
what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had
to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK
if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t,
you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic
screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing
browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can
they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an
almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For
starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to
uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free
copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does
not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This
makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is
inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran
into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating
navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just
interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was
also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m
now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue
to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers
I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And
that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher
25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world
accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal
of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how
difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty
toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at
VFO and
> Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn
things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but
seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally
focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as
such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in
the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology
across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator,
James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort
to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives
in
> Florida.






No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date:
08/09/16



Re: active@ disk image, free version

Carlos
 

I'm not sure. I have used it in Windows 10 and did not experience this problem.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melissa" <@MJMarney>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


I just tried that and got the same message/window when I start the program:
Active@ Disk ImageLite 7.0.4 64 bit free license
I even tried to run it using my admin account and got the same
results. I was hoping that maybe there was a newer version ... but
apparently mine is the latest version of the program.
I will have my mom or sister look at the screen for me when they get
home. Ever since I upgraded windows like that, which tell me nothing,
still have the visual aspect to it. Which is really f'ing annoying.

Melissa



On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
No, Active@ Disk Image has a free version which is included in the WinPE
images as well. You might be thinking of Image for Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob" <captinlogic@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
Have you tried reinstalling Active@ Disk Image?

Isn't it shareware and expires after a while? Or was that Windows Image.







Re: active@ disk image, free version

 

I just tried that and got the same message/window when I start the program:
Active@ Disk ImageLite 7.0.4 64 bit free license
I even tried to run it using my admin account and got the same
results. I was hoping that maybe there was a newer version ... but
apparently mine is the latest version of the program.
I will have my mom or sister look at the screen for me when they get
home. Ever since I upgraded windows like that, which tell me nothing,
still have the visual aspect to it. Which is really f'ing annoying.

Melissa

On 8/9/16, Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
No, Active@ Disk Image has a free version which is included in the WinPE
images as well. You might be thinking of Image for Windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob" <captinlogic@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
Have you tried reinstalling Active@ Disk Image?

Isn't it shareware and expires after a while? Or was that Windows Image.







Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


Because once again what is good enough for some, is not guaranteed to be good enough for all.  Just because one screen reader covers the needs of some people, does not mean it will be capable of covering the needs or requirements of everyone.  What happens when the built-in screen reader does not work correctly with a particular website or application?  If you have no other options available, then you would simply have to live with the fact that you cannot adequately use that resource.  No single screen reader is capable of doing everything adequately for everyone.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if the screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third party screen readers go under?  Pam.
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.
 
James
 
 
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator.  I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator.  All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
> Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
> Florida.





No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date: 08/09/16


Re: Script Talk.

Mike Thomas
 

its really quite helpful to have Scriptalk on your perscriptions.  Its free, but your pharmacy must be using Scriptalk for you to get the Envision America Scriptalk reader.  Walmart uses scriptalk, but Walgreen's does not.  You can check with your pharmacy, or call envision America and see if your pharmacy is using Scriptalk.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:50 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Script Talk.

Do any of you have Script Talk for your prescriptions? What do you think about it? A friend of mine just got it and thinks that it will be helpful.

 

Best from,

 

Carolyn

 


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

I do see your point, and while I have to agree that major screen readers won't go out of business just yet, if Microsoft releases Scripting Accessibility tools, sort of what Apple has, or so I believe, that might change things. Voiceover can't be scripted, and it still works with many things, so there's still quite a big concern, in say, the next 5 to 10 years.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos <carlos1106@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 11:00 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Fortunately, Narrator has a long way to go before it can match some of the
more advanced features of other screen readers. Scripting, custom labels,
custom highlights, custom frames, reassigning window classes, and other
similar features which allow making applications with nonstandard interfaces
more accessible. Especially in the work environment.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Its just me, but that's what seems to be their aim. Catching up with
apple, in some ways.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 10:44 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



I just wonder if MS isn't planning on eventually improving Narrator
enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.

James



From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products
so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more
accessible using Narrator. I'm not saying this will always be the case,
but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any
indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator. All it means is that
big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when
making their own products more accessible with Narrator before
third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how
does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers
of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and
built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator
would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much
more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results
Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The
three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers
is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I
think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up
for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility
for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make
you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or
functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I
did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the
blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was
that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can
be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on
Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock
and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements,
use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes
text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key,
arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and
read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode
off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a
music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen
reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text
on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the
winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is
it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse
modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like
Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what
you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen.. That's OK if
you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they
keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to
uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not
work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation
bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just
interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue
to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've
ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25
years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible
for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty
toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO
and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed
more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing
on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded
a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as
such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across
all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator,
James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to
help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.









Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Pamela Dominguez
 

I always say this, and get my head bitten off by some people; but if the screenreader that’s built in is actually made good enough so you can do everything you need to do with it, then why should it matter if the third party screen readers go under?  Pam.
 

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.
 
James
 
 
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator.  I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator.  All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
> Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
> Florida.





No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12782 - Release Date: 08/09/16


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 

Fortunately, Narrator has a long way to go before it can match some of the more advanced features of other screen readers. Scripting, custom labels, custom highlights, custom frames, reassigning window classes, and other similar features which allow making applications with nonstandard interfaces more accessible. Especially in the work environment.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Its just me, but that's what seems to be their aim. Catching up with apple, in some ways.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 10:44 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



I just wonder if MS isn't planning on eventually improving Narrator enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.

James



From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator. I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator. All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen.. That's OK if you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.






Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


I don't believe that is likely, but it is a concern.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.
 
James
 
 
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator.  I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator.  All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
> Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
> Florida.






Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

Its just me, but that's what seems to be their aim. Catching up with apple, in some ways.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 10:44 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



I just wonder if MS isn't planning on eventually improving Narrator enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.

James



From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator. I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator. All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen.. That's OK if you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.






Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Pamela Dominguez
 

I heard that sentence, too, but it didn’t mention netflix that somebody asked about.  Pam.
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I guess I heard that, then, but I didn't recall that sentence.  As I recall, aside from those mentions, the only program that was discussed was Edge. 
 
Gene
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

They were only mentioned briefly.  Quote unquote,  "I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app.".
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 
 
Gene
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

James Bentley
 

I just wonder if MS isn’t planning on eventually improving Narrator enough so that third party screen readers will go out of business.
 
James
 
 
 

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator.  I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator.  All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
> Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
> Florida.






Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Pamela Dominguez
 

I don’t remember them being mentioned, either.  So, it’s not just you.  Pam.
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 
 
Gene
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.