Date   

Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

As you probably know, I was only playing with it, for the sakes of entertainment, and because I have nothing better to do right now. I give credit where credit is due, it has seriously improved. I remember when I had no windows, and the phone crashed because of an illegal build of IOS10, and options just closed right on me. Now, I dare to safely say, grab narrator, and fix it. LOL, that's why I was checking iTunes, in particular. Then sighted don't want to help, you know how it goes.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos <carlos1106@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 10:18 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



I am not saying that Narrator doesn't have it's uses. My point is that the
review which initially started this thread is not thorough or objective
enough to be taken seriously.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


LOL, it still leaves plenty to design, as I say, and back to some good old
trusty NVDA, but if I needed to help out, or quickly restore my phone at a
friend's, I could do it, without bringing NVDA, or a license code. Yes, I
could download it, but this is still easier. I don't really have anything
else to try here, but let's hope it will improve as time goes by. I've not
tried it with window eyes or JAWS, but from what I've played with it, no
difference between NVDA, and narrator, for what I need it.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos <carlos1106@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 9:55 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Still, accessibility with one application is not an indication of
superiority. I haven't used iTunes recently so I don't know that it
isn't
just as accessible with other screen readers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


OK, this will be it from me about iTunes. But, trust me, if I can use
it,
so can everyone. I'm still not very good with browse mode, and all
that. I
plugged the phone into iTunes. First, it asked me to set up iCloud, so,
thought,, why not. IE launched, Narrator did read everything, and, to
be
totally honest, I think it was me, but couldn't figure out, how to even
download, so quit that. Now, the fun part. Opened iTunes, again,
pressed
backup, and the sinking began. Keep in mind, it read evernthing, phone
number, serial number, and, this was all without using scan mode. I was
just tabbing within the phone. Narrator then said OK button. At this
point, I pressed capslock-space, to scan. It said, unable to sink
iPhone,
error -54. Which, I think I know why it said that, but that's
absolutely
nothing to do with my tests. And, while I agree that the article was on
about edge, iTunes, from what I've played with it, is working, and that
is
hardly a Microsoft product. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if
Apple's
behind it, but I won't defend them, unless I know. Over all, a great
experience, particularly if someone is lost, and they need a
non-sighted's
help, but I still think some tiny things need improving. A wider range
of
narrator setting, bigger range of rate and pitch scale, but you get the
idea. I'll probably play with it over time, but, people's biggest
issue,
iTunes is, indeed, a surprise.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what
all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing
keys
for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference
as
it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it
actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same
using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go.
Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of
customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key
presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So
how
does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind
Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen
reader
is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and
built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well
Narrator
would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is
much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The
Results
Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the
most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time.
The
three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows
10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen
readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial,
I
think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are
most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes
be
up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal
needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used
for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to
access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by
being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers
make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or
functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the
rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once
I
did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company
was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the
blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader
was
that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working
with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem
can
be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on
Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft
Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses
something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps
lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan
mode
is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that
includes
text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key,
arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has
your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What
am
I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up
and
read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan
mode
off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause
a
music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen
reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the
only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all
text
on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the
winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem
is
it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at
this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and
browse
modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like
Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to
read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to
read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know
what
you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had
to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK
if
you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't,
you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic
screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing
browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can
they
keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an
almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For
starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to
uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free
copy
of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does
not
work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This
makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is
inexcusable
and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran
into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating
navigation
bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just
interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was
also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm
now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue
to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers
I've
ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And
that's
a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher
25
years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world
accessible
for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal
of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how
difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty
toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at
VFO
and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn
things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but
seemed
more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally
focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as
such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in
the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology
across
all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator,
James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort
to
help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives
in
Florida.













Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 

I am not saying that Narrator doesn't have it's uses. My point is that the review which initially started this thread is not thorough or objective enough to be taken seriously.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


LOL, it still leaves plenty to design, as I say, and back to some good old trusty NVDA, but if I needed to help out, or quickly restore my phone at a friend's, I could do it, without bringing NVDA, or a license code. Yes, I could download it, but this is still easier. I don't really have anything else to try here, but let's hope it will improve as time goes by. I've not tried it with window eyes or JAWS, but from what I've played with it, no difference between NVDA, and narrator, for what I need it.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos <carlos1106@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 9:55 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Still, accessibility with one application is not an indication of
superiority. I haven't used iTunes recently so I don't know that it isn't
just as accessible with other screen readers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


OK, this will be it from me about iTunes. But, trust me, if I can use it,
so can everyone. I'm still not very good with browse mode, and all that. I
plugged the phone into iTunes. First, it asked me to set up iCloud, so,
thought,, why not. IE launched, Narrator did read everything, and, to be
totally honest, I think it was me, but couldn't figure out, how to even
download, so quit that. Now, the fun part. Opened iTunes, again, pressed
backup, and the sinking began. Keep in mind, it read evernthing, phone
number, serial number, and, this was all without using scan mode. I was
just tabbing within the phone. Narrator then said OK button. At this
point, I pressed capslock-space, to scan. It said, unable to sink iPhone,
error -54. Which, I think I know why it said that, but that's absolutely
nothing to do with my tests. And, while I agree that the article was on
about edge, iTunes, from what I've played with it, is working, and that is
hardly a Microsoft product. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's
behind it, but I won't defend them, unless I know. Over all, a great
experience, particularly if someone is lost, and they need a non-sighted's
help, but I still think some tiny things need improving. A wider range of
narrator setting, bigger range of rate and pitch scale, but you get the
idea. I'll probably play with it over time, but, people's biggest issue,
iTunes is, indeed, a surprise.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what
all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing keys
for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference as
it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it
actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same
using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go.
Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of
customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key
presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how
does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader
is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and
built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator
would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is
much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results
Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The
three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen
readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I
think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are
most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be
up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal
needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to
access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers
make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or
functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I
did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company
was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the
blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was
that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can
be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on
Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft
Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps
lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode
is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes
text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key,
arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am
I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and
read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode
off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a
music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen
reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text
on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the
winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is
it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse
modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like
Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to
read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to
read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what
you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK if
you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't,
you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they
keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an
almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For
starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to
uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy
of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not
work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable
and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation
bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just
interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've
ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's
a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25
years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible
for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how
difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty
toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO
and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn
things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed
more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally
focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as
such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across
all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator,
James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to
help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.










Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

LOL, it still leaves plenty to design, as I say, and back to some good old trusty NVDA, but if I needed to help out, or quickly restore my phone at a friend's, I could do it, without bringing NVDA, or a license code. Yes, I could download it, but this is still easier. I don't really have anything else to try here, but let's hope it will improve as time goes by. I've not tried it with window eyes or JAWS, but from what I've played with it, no difference between NVDA, and narrator, for what I need it.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos <carlos1106@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 9:55 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Still, accessibility with one application is not an indication of
superiority. I haven't used iTunes recently so I don't know that it isn't
just as accessible with other screen readers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


OK, this will be it from me about iTunes. But, trust me, if I can use it,
so can everyone. I'm still not very good with browse mode, and all that. I
plugged the phone into iTunes. First, it asked me to set up iCloud, so,
thought,, why not. IE launched, Narrator did read everything, and, to be
totally honest, I think it was me, but couldn't figure out, how to even
download, so quit that. Now, the fun part. Opened iTunes, again, pressed
backup, and the sinking began. Keep in mind, it read evernthing, phone
number, serial number, and, this was all without using scan mode. I was
just tabbing within the phone. Narrator then said OK button. At this
point, I pressed capslock-space, to scan. It said, unable to sink iPhone,
error -54. Which, I think I know why it said that, but that's absolutely
nothing to do with my tests. And, while I agree that the article was on
about edge, iTunes, from what I've played with it, is working, and that is
hardly a Microsoft product. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's
behind it, but I won't defend them, unless I know. Over all, a great
experience, particularly if someone is lost, and they need a non-sighted's
help, but I still think some tiny things need improving. A wider range of
narrator setting, bigger range of rate and pitch scale, but you get the
idea. I'll probably play with it over time, but, people's biggest issue,
iTunes is, indeed, a surprise.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what
all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing keys
for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference as
it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it
actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same
using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go.
Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of
customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key
presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how
does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10
Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that
developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with
Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader
is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and
built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator
would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is
much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary
Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results
Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The
three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen
readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I
think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are
most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be
up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal
needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to
access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off
accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers
make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or
functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I
did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company
was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the
blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was
that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can
be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully
accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on
Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft
Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps
lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active
elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode
is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes
text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key,
arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am
I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and
read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode
off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a
music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen
reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text
on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the
winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is
it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse
modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like
Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to
read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to
read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what
you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK if
you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't,
you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they
keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an
almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For
starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade
Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10
Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to
uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy
of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not
work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable
and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted
keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation
bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just
interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always
continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've
ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's
a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25
years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible
for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how
difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty
toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO
and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn
things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed
more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally
focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also
recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10
anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as
such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across
all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator,
James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to
help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of
empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.










Script Talk.

Carolyn Arnold
 

I found on Google that Rite Aid and CVS are two stores. I know also HEB in Texas offers it too.

 

 

Best from,

 

Carolyn

 


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 

Still, accessibility with one application is not an indication of superiority. I haven't used iTunes recently so I don't know that it isn't just as accessible with other screen readers.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rajmund" <brajmund2000@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


OK, this will be it from me about iTunes. But, trust me, if I can use it, so can everyone. I'm still not very good with browse mode, and all that. I plugged the phone into iTunes. First, it asked me to set up iCloud, so, thought,, why not. IE launched, Narrator did read everything, and, to be totally honest, I think it was me, but couldn't figure out, how to even download, so quit that. Now, the fun part. Opened iTunes, again, pressed backup, and the sinking began. Keep in mind, it read evernthing, phone number, serial number, and, this was all without using scan mode. I was just tabbing within the phone. Narrator then said OK button. At this point, I pressed capslock-space, to scan. It said, unable to sink iPhone, error -54. Which, I think I know why it said that, but that's absolutely nothing to do with my tests. And, while I agree that the article was on about edge, iTunes, from what I've played with it, is working, and that is hardly a Microsoft product. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's behind it, but I won't defend them, unless I know. Over all, a great experience, particularly if someone is lost, and they need a non-sighted's help, but I still think some tiny things need improving. A wider range of narrator setting, bigger range of rate and pitch scale, but you get the idea. I'll probably play with it over time, but, people's biggest issue, iTunes is, indeed, a surprise.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what
all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing keys
for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference as
it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go. Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK if you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.







Re: active@ disk image, free version

Carlos
 

No, Active@ Disk Image has a free version which is included in the WinPE images as well. You might be thinking of Image for Windows.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob" <captinlogic@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
Have you tried reinstalling Active@ Disk Image?

Isn't it shareware and expires after a while? Or was that Windows Image.


Re: active@ disk image, free version

Rob <captinlogic@...>
 

Carlos <carlos1106@...> wrote:
Have you tried reinstalling Active@ Disk Image?

Isn't it shareware and expires after a while? Or was that Windows Image.


Re: Script Talk.

Carolyn Arnold
 

I will check with our pharmacy. If they don't have it, maybe they'll get it. Also, I can check Walgreens, and move from Rite Aid, if Walgreens has it. To me, accessibility would be worth giving up convenient location. Thank you for explaining how it works. I'll save this message.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Barb O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 2:16 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Script Talk.

Carolyn, I do and I do like it. It comes with a built-in guide in the machine, as well as some Braille instructions and an audio CD to listen to. You can configure the unit to spell the prescription drug. Right now, I can't remember exactly how to do it but, the instructions will tell you. You can also speed up the voice or slow it down.

The people from scriptalk also call and check with you about every 6 months to make sure everything is working correctly.

Barb

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2016, at 12:50 PM, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@... <mailto:4carolyna@...> > wrote:



Do any of you have Script Talk for your prescriptions? What do you think about it? A friend of mine just got it and thinks that it will be helpful.



Best from,



Carolyn


Re: active@ disk image, free version

Carlos
 

Have you tried reinstalling Active@ Disk Image?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melissa" <@MJMarney>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:12 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] active@ disk image, free version


I've been using this program to make back up images of my computer
since right before I upgraded to Windows 10. I checked my backups and
apparently I ran this once after I upgraded, however I went to run it
today and got nothing.
When I run the program I get the window, but when I go to tab or arrow
around I hear nothing. Hitting ALT to try and open the menus doesn't
work either. Switching between object nav and screen review lands me
no response either, just a blank window.

On a side note: I have this same issue with bulk crap uninstaller too
... and I had thought it just didn't work for me.

I haven't been upgraded to the anniversary version of windows 10 and I
am using NVDA 2016.1.
The program worked fine for me 7/23 so I'm not sure what could have
changed. I just thought of looking to see if there were windows
updates installed since then, but uninstalling them would only be a
sort of stop gap I guess since they would install themselves again.
Any suggestions?


Re: Script Talk.

Carolyn Arnold
 

Great. I intend to look into it. Thanks.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Donald L.
Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 2:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Script Talk.

Caroline, Scripttalk is wonderful. All of the relevant
information including prescribing physician's name, name of
drug prescribed, number of refills, etc. are spoken in a
clear male voice. I don't know whether this device can
spell the prescription name; but if not, that would be my
only suggestion.




Don Roberts





On 8/9/2016 10:50 AM, Carolyn Arnold wrote:


Do any of you have Script Talk for your
prescriptions? What do you think about it? A friend of mine
just got it and thinks that it will be helpful.



Best from,



Carolyn


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

OK, this will be it from me about iTunes. But, trust me, if I can use it, so can everyone. I'm still not very good with browse mode, and all that. I plugged the phone into iTunes. First, it asked me to set up iCloud, so, thought,, why not. IE launched, Narrator did read everything, and, to be totally honest, I think it was me, but couldn't figure out, how to even download, so quit that. Now, the fun part. Opened iTunes, again, pressed backup, and the sinking began. Keep in mind, it read evernthing, phone number, serial number, and, this was all without using scan mode. I was just tabbing within the phone. Narrator then said OK button. At this point, I pressed capslock-space, to scan. It said, unable to sink iPhone, error -54. Which, I think I know why it said that, but that's absolutely nothing to do with my tests. And, while I agree that the article was on about edge, iTunes, from what I've played with it, is working, and that is hardly a Microsoft product. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's behind it, but I won't defend them, unless I know. Over all, a great experience, particularly if someone is lost, and they need a non-sighted's help, but I still think some tiny things need improving. A wider range of narrator setting, bigger range of rate and pitch scale, but you get the idea. I'll probably play with it over time, but, people's biggest issue, iTunes is, indeed, a surprise.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what
all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing keys
for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference as
it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go. Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK if you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.







Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Flor Lynch
 

No Read-To-End function in Narrator was mentioned. there being none, that makes it pretty awkward to read Web pages etc, and of course any other docs, in the normal way.
 

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech
 
My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

For me, it really was noticeable. Anyways, let's kill NVDA, activate some narrator, and I'll go and backup the phone. Watch out for updates. Just because I'm new to windows, I'm not afraid to torture narrator. If it survives a few more tests, then its decent. I'll look around with what I can torture it. I'll probably try a few more games, and stuff.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy <icu8it2@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what
all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing keys
for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference as
it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go. Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK if you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.







active@ disk image, free version

 

I've been using this program to make back up images of my computer
since right before I upgraded to Windows 10. I checked my backups and
apparently I ran this once after I upgraded, however I went to run it
today and got nothing.
When I run the program I get the window, but when I go to tab or arrow
around I hear nothing. Hitting ALT to try and open the menus doesn't
work either. Switching between object nav and screen review lands me
no response either, just a blank window.

On a side note: I have this same issue with bulk crap uninstaller too
... and I had thought it just didn't work for me.

I haven't been upgraded to the anniversary version of windows 10 and I
am using NVDA 2016.1.
The program worked fine for me 7/23 so I'm not sure what could have
changed. I just thought of looking to see if there were windows
updates installed since then, but uninstalling them would only be a
sort of stop gap I guess since they would install themselves again.
Any suggestions?


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Haha, that's wild. I need to play with narrator more, just to see what all it actually works with, but it working with ITunes is neat.
I've also noticed that NVDA seems to be more responsive in pressing keys for commands and such than narrator, but nowhere as much a difference as it used to be in the earlier versions of windows.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:42 PM, Rajmund wrote:
HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go. Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK if you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.





Newbie questions for Windows10

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Okay, so here it goes, my attempt at finding the different things in 10 that I don't particularly care for or understand and hopefully come across some answers. Since there's a number of you who've been playing with it much longer than I, perhaps one of you kind souls can tell me if I'm just being dense or maybe things that just aren't as good/accessible with NVDA as they could stand to be.

Things I'm having the most difficult times with so far are, the start menu and how best to move around in it, add/remove items from it, see what all different bits of information it contains, etc.

One thing in particular I miss is the ability to use the start menu to enter directories such as my user's folder so I can get to downloads, music etc, rather than having to have file explorer always pinned to my taskbar.
On 7, when I press the start button, I could press shift tab and it'd take me to a configurable list that would let me jump into my user's directory, downloads, documents, whatever. This was much easier to configure and reach, compared to now, this weird area that has a calender and a few other things, which seem to be listed under sections. I've found that you can press enter on these sections and it lets you rename them, but I can't figure out a way to move around them confidently with the arrows. I'm guessing that they show up in something like a grid, so is there a way to configure this menu to be in a list instead? I've also figured out that if you press tab twice, after pressing the start button and it taking you to the cortana search box, it takes you to an alphabetical listing of the different apps and such, where you can use the applications key to perform different things like pinning and unpinning them to the start menu. I've tried to use unpin, to remove things like x-box from this list, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to move around in this little beastie, as currently, it seems terribly cluttered
Also, if and when I use the Cortana search box to find an application on my computer, is there a way to turn off the feature that makes it go out to the internet and grab up all the extra results? for now, I have no intention on jabbering to my computer and only really want that search area to be able to quickly type a few characters to find installed applications, so can this be done?
Thank you as always.
Take care.


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Rajmund <brajmund2000@...>
 

HMM, I just tried navigating around iTunes, and, surprisingly, it actually works. From what I can gather, I could accomplish the same using narrator than I have been using NVDA for, as far as iTunes go. Although, for me, and, this could purely because of lack of customisation, but, I do find NVDA much more responsive, between key presses.



Sent from a Braille Sense

----- Original Message -----
From: heather albright <kd5cbl@...>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc. Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes. Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications? It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software. This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
<https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>

Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
Surprise You!

In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
Microsoft's most recently updated Narrator.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
accessibility in this review.

What Is Accessibility?

Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!

Number One: Microsoft Narrator!

It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
Microsoft and HIMS <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
on, you can navigate through everything on the screen-that includes text,
website elements, and application controls-by using the tab key, arrowing
around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
screen reader announced; "OK button". And you are wondering; "What am I
saying OK to?" When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!

Second-Place Goes to NVDA.

NVDA <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
uses a function called browse mode that doesn't actually work at this
time. You're supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
by pressing insert plus spacebar. It's supposed to function like Narrator's
scan mode. Because it didn't work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you're
saying "OK" to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That's OK if you
know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don't, you're
missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
daily basis?

JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.

This wasn't even close! I don't even know where to begin! For starters,
the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
<http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
with Microsoft Edge unless you're using the touch cursor. This makes
Microsoft's primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
<http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?

Final Thoughts.

I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I'm now
using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I've ever
seen. As for JAWS, I can't think of one good thing to say. And that's a
difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
me. It was an amazing product, and I've always shown a great deal of
gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they're not
maintaining their commitment to customers. You don't know how difficult
that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
Freedom Scientific <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
update. I hope you give it a listen.

The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.

James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
Florida.






Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>
 

Hi,

For NVDA, latest snapshots restores browse mode in Edge.

Scan mode is extremely useful: a combination of object navigation and review facilities found in certain screen readers.

I do have my own comments about the review, which I’ll bring up with James Oats, the author of this article.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:33 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

I don't know about fully accessible.  It sounds as if it is more accessible than it was previously depending on the screen reader being used.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:27 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

No mention of firefox or chrome.

 

Does this mean that edge is now fully accessible???

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: August-09-16 1:13 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

They were only mentioned briefly.  Quote unquote,  "I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app.".

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 

 

Gene

 

From: Carlos

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeremy

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:

This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 

 

Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 

 

While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.





 


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


I don't know about fully accessible.  It sounds as if it is more accessible than it was previously depending on the screen reader being used.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

No mention of firefox or chrome.

 

Does this mean that edge is now fully accessible???

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: August-09-16 1:13 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

They were only mentioned briefly.  Quote unquote,  "I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app.".

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 

 

Gene

 

From: Carlos

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeremy

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:

This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 

 

Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 

 

While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.






 


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Monte Single
 

No mention of firefox or chrome.

 

Does this mean that edge is now fully accessible???

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: August-09-16 1:13 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

They were only mentioned briefly.  Quote unquote,  "I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app.".

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 

 

Gene

 

From: Carlos

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.

----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeremy

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:

This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 

 

Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 

 

While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

 

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.