Date   

Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Gene
 

I assume his comments about NVDA and browse mode referred to Edge.  I haven't seen any comments concerning this problem on the NVdA users' list and there certainly would have been if it were more general. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Yeah, it kind of mentions them, but doesn't really give any sort of explanation on how the screenreaders interacted with them. Even in the section on NVDA, it brings up the browse/focus mode and how apparently you can't switch between the two, but I am guessing this is something specific to edge. My firefox works great and NVDA works in it exactly the same way it did in 7, so I'm not sure.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 
 
Gene

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.










Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Gene
 

I guess I heard that, then, but I didn't recall that sentence.  As I recall, aside from those mentions, the only program that was discussed was Edge. 
 
Gene

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

They were only mentioned briefly.  Quote unquote,  "I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app.".
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 
 
Gene

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Yeah, it kind of mentions them, but doesn't really give any sort of explanation on how the screenreaders interacted with them. Even in the section on NVDA, it brings up the browse/focus mode and how apparently you can't switch between the two, but I am guessing this is something specific to edge. My firefox works great and NVDA works in it exactly the same way it did in 7, so I'm not sure.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 2:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 
 
Gene

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.










Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


They were only mentioned briefly.  Quote unquote,  "I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app.".

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 
 
Gene

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Gene
 

I thought I read the entire review but I don't recall these applications being mentioned.  Maybe, somehow, I missed a little of it. 
 
Gene

From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Oh, okay. I didn't realize that Groove music was from MS too. How about movies and TV, also the Netflix app, are those from MS as well?

On 8/9/2016 1:20 PM, Carlos wrote:
Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.










Re: questions about system restore

Gene
 

Tab around the dialog where you see the one point.  Do you see a check box for show more restore points?  If not, or if it doesn't do anything now, look with the JAWS cursor or equivalent in whatever screen-reader you are using.  See if you see something else to show more restore points.  This discussion is for Windows 7.  It may apply in all later versions but I haven't used later versions. 
 
You might get help in solving the actual problem or whether system restore is likely to solve it if you describe the problem.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:12 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] questions about system restore

Greetings one and all, okay I did a system restore thinking it might solve an issue it didn’t so their was an option to undue which I did, just curious when I go back in to system restore it still shows undue even though it said it had completed the task, any thoughts using windows 7 also how can I find earlier restore points?


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

Nah, that's true enough. I still think the article pointed out some pretty neat features of narrator, certainly enough to get me curious, but you're right, doesn't even begin to give an idea of weather or not you could actually rely on it for an every day screenreader. I'd venture to guess that if they were to use a wider range of applications that people use daily, NVDA and even JFW would rank out much higher. Not really been a huge fan of JFW, not since I started using 7 with NVDA, but I find it really difficult to believe that it's as horrible as they make it sound to be.
for what it's worth though, I do like the responsiveness of narrator in 10, compared to when I've used it on xp, 7 and 8. :)

On 8/9/2016 1:05 PM, Carlos wrote:
But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.










Re: Script Talk.

Robin Frost
 

Hi,
I agree it is a wonderful service. The equipment is well made the access to information it provides is extremely beneficial.
I heartily recommend it.
Robin
 
 

From: Donald L. Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 2:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Script Talk.
 

Caroline, Scripttalk is wonderful.  All of the relevant information including prescribing physician's name, name of drug prescribed, number of refills, etc. are spoken in a clear male voice.  I don't know whether this device can spell the prescription name; but if not, that would be my only suggestion.


Don Roberts



On 8/9/2016 10:50 AM, Carolyn Arnold wrote:

Do any of you have Script Talk for your prescriptions? What do you think about it? A friend of mine just got it and thinks that it will be helpful.

 

Best from,

 

Carolyn

 



Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


Oh yes and the application you mention for playing music is called Groove Music, but it is yet another built-in Windows 10 application.  The only two third-party products which were mentioned at all were Dropbox and Audacity.  And the developers of Audacity are known for emphasizing accessibility so I won't credit Microsoft for that one.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: Script Talk.

Barb O'Connor
 

Carolyn, I do and I do like it. It comes with a built-in guide in the machine, as well as some Braille instructions and an audio CD to listen to. You can configure the unit to spell the prescription drug. Right now, I can't remember exactly how to do it but, the instructions will tell you. You can also speed up the voice or slow it down.

The people from scriptalk also call and check with you about every 6 months to make sure everything is working correctly. 

Barb

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2016, at 12:50 PM, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> wrote:

Do any of you have Script Talk for your prescriptions? What do you think about it? A friend of mine just got it and thinks that it will be helpful.

 

Best from,

 

Carolyn

 


questions about system restore

james <j.hooper3272@...>
 

Greetings one and all, okay I did a system restore thinking it might solve an issue it didn’t so their was an option to undue which I did, just curious when I go back in to system restore it still shows undue even though it said it had completed the task, any thoughts using windows 7 also how can I find earlier restore points?


Re: t w blue

Andrew
 

Sorry James, I should have said first, there is sometimes an issue with the shortcut that is created when you first installed the program.

The steps I gave you, work for a lot of people.

Andrew

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Hooper
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 11:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] t w blue

 

I have a shortcut on my desktop it just sits their I thought maybe their was an issue with the program.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrew
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 11:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] t w blue

 

Hello, if you mean T W Blu?

Try going to where the T W Blu program is, such as your C drive.

Once you find the program, go into folder & find the TW BKLU. EXE.

Press the applications key & select create shortcut.

The shortcut cut you just created should be  at bottom of same folder.

Cut shortcut CTRL + X.

Go back to your desktop & Ctrl + v To paste.

Press F2 on shortcut wuill allow you to change name of shortcut.

HTH  Andrew

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Hooper
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 9:25 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] t w blue

 

Anyone who uses this program for whatever reason this morning it won’t launch anyone else having this issue?


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


But once again Skype is a Microsoft product so the review does not provide a realistic or balanced prospective on using Narrator as your primary screen reader on a daily basis with third-party applications.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: t w blue

james <j.hooper3272@...>
 

I have a shortcut on my desktop it just sits their I thought maybe their was an issue with the program.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrew
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 11:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] t w blue

 

Hello, if you mean T W Blu?

Try going to where the T W Blu program is, such as your C drive.

Once you find the program, go into folder & find the TW BKLU. EXE.

Press the applications key & select create shortcut.

The shortcut cut you just created should be  at bottom of same folder.

Cut shortcut CTRL + X.

Go back to your desktop & Ctrl + v To paste.

Press F2 on shortcut wuill allow you to change name of shortcut.

HTH  Andrew

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Hooper
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 9:25 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] t w blue

 

Anyone who uses this program for whatever reason this morning it won’t launch anyone else having this issue?


Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

I'm not quite sure I'd call it worthless, but I do agree that they could have been more clear on what applications they tested with the three screenreaders. It almost sounded to me like it was mostly about edge, but they also mentioned skype, an application for music, etc, so I wasn't sure. It did however point out some things, the scan mode in narrator, which I'm interested in playing with. I could have probably learned of them elsewhere, but reading about them there in the article was helpful.
Either way, this narrator's scan modes going to have to be pretty amazing to be ranked over NVDA. haha
We'll see.
Take care.

On 8/9/2016 12:52 PM, Gene wrote:
This review is almost worthless.  Screen-readers performance was only evaluated with one program, a program which Microsoft states is not fully accessible yet.  Maybe at this time, it is accessible with Narrator, but it is not fully accessible with other screen-readers and that is one reason Microsoft has extended the period in which blind people can upgrade. 
 
Evaluating three screen-readers based on their performance with one program is meaningless. 
 
While interesting, it tells us nothing about the screen-readers' general performance and how much support various programs are given. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

My husband has been encouraging me to give Narrator a try. I like it's voice, so might just give it a try.

Bye for now,

Carolyn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:21 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech


> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anni
> versary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-ann
> iversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.  <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility  <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in Florida.









Re: Script Talk.

Donald L. Roberts
 

Caroline, Scripttalk is wonderful.  All of the relevant information including prescribing physician's name, name of drug prescribed, number of refills, etc. are spoken in a clear male voice.  I don't know whether this device can spell the prescription name; but if not, that would be my only suggestion.


Don Roberts



On 8/9/2016 10:50 AM, Carolyn Arnold wrote:

Do any of you have Script Talk for your prescriptions? What do you think about it? A friend of mine just got it and thinks that it will be helpful.

 

Best from,

 

Carolyn

 



Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Gene
 

Not only were there no third party applications, the only program evaluated was Edge.  This makes the evaluation almost meaningless.  And in addition, Microsoft still considers Edge to be not fully accessible.  So comparing third party screen-readers on such a program is also meaningless. 
 
I will not learn Narrator when I can use Firefox or Chrome in Windows 10.  The reviewer said he spent a day getting used to Narrator's commands.  He also complains about the difficult key combinations some screen-readers use for some functions.  Yet not a word is said about the undesirability of creating a screen-reader, Narrator, whose commands don't even try to follow those in popular screen-readers. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
> Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
> Florida.






Re: Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Carlos
 


Well of course the mail app and Skype are once again Microsoft products so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if newer versions are initially more accessible using Narrator.  I'm not saying this will always be the case, but when it does happen to be the case, I don't believe that it is any indication of superiority on behalf of Narrator.  All it means is that big surprise, of course Microsoft is going to have the advantage when making their own products more accessible with Narrator before third-party screen reader developers.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

I noticed there were no third party applications in the review! So how does the mail app behave, skype, revo etc.  Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech

Of course this review does not take into account the fact that developers of
third-party screen readers are always having to catch up with Microsoft's
changes.  Is it really any surprise that Microsoft's own screen reader is
the first to be made accessible with their own operating system and built-in
applications?  It is also worth taking into account how well Narrator would
do when used with third-party software.  This is where Narrator is much more
likely to be unsatisfactory unless you only use built-in Windows
applications.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Hallsworth" <challsworth2@...>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update:
The Results Will Surprise You! - Cool Blind Tech



> https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/
> <https://www.coolblindtech.com/ranking-screen-readers-in-windows10-anniversary-update-the-results-will-surprise-you/>
>
> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results Will
> Surprise You!
>
> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most
> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The three
> screen readers were tested on the most recent version of Windows 10
> anniversary update. This is important because one of the screen readers is
> Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator.
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22798/windows-10-narrator-get-started>Although
> ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite controversial, I think
> it can also open up a real discussion on which screen readers are most
> accessible, and even the question of accessibility can sometimes be up for
> debate. I do realize that accessibility is determined by personal needs
> and preferences, so I will attempt to define the criteria I used for
> accessibility in this review.
>
> What Is Accessibility?
>
> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to access
> that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off accessibility for
> the screen readers that make it difficult to access material by being
> dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to figure out which
> keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some screen readers make you
> use ridiculous key combinations to activate website elements or functions
> within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>
> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>
> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I did, I
> realized what a powerful tool Microsoft
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/>had created and that the company was
> finally serious about supporting a built-in screen reader for the blind.
> In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with the screen reader was that
> it did not work with my braille display. I am currently working with
> Microsoft and HIMS  <https://hims-inc.com/>to see if this problem can be
> resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully accessible
> on all websites and applications. I tested the screen readers on Microsoft
> Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, Dropbox, Microsoft Word,
> Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. Narrator now uses something
> called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and
> space bar. When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use
> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred
> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode is
> on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that includes text,
> website elements, and application controls—by using the tab key, arrowing
> around the screen, or employing letter navigation. How often has your
> screen reader announced; “OK button”. And you are wondering; “What am I
> saying OK to?” When scan mode is turned on, you can just arrow up and read
> the text associated with that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off
> when you want to use keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music
> track or alt F4 to close an application. This was the only screen reader
> that was fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only
> screen reader that was able to read every active element and all text on
> each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>
> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>
> NVDA  <http://www.nvaccess.org/>performed mostly well. The problem is it
> uses a function called browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this
> time. You’re supposed to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes
> by pressing insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s
> scan mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read
> active elements, not text, on the screen. It was also difficult to read
> text on other applications. Like I said before, you want to know what you’re
> saying “OK” to. Also, there were other applications where you had to
> switch the pain view to see what else was on the screen. That’s OK if you
> know that there are other pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re
> missing out on loads of information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen
> reader and the developers of the project are working on fixing browse
> mode. I suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep
> up with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost
> daily basis?
>
> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>
> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For starters,
> the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft Upgrade Assistant
> which is a program that allows customers to download Windows10 Anniversary
> Update without having to wait for the automatic update. I had to uninstall
> the Freedom Scientific display driver just to download my free copy of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Next, JAWS
> <http://www.freedomscientific.com/JawsHQ/jawsHeadquarters01>does not work
> with Microsoft Edge unless you’re using the touch cursor. This makes
> Microsoft’s primary browser virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and
> unacceptable. JAWS has also come up with some very convoluted keystroke
> combinations to interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into
> several situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars
> on webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFO
> <http://www.vfo-group.com/>serious about accessibility, or just interested
> in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>
> Final Thoughts.
>
> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also
> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now
> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always continue to
> use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only continue to
> improve. They have one of the most talented group of developers I’ve ever
> seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good thing to say. And that’s a
> difficult position for me to take. When I first became a teacher 25 years
> ago, JAWS was the only program that made the digital world accessible for
> me. It was an amazing product, and I’ve always shown a great deal of
> gratitude toward them, but even I have to admit that they’re not
> maintaining their commitment to customers. You don’t know how difficult
> that is for me to say this because I have a great deal of loyalty toward
> the people who helped me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and
> Freedom Scientific  <http://www.freedomscientific.com/>can turn things
> around, but most importantly I applaud the accessibility team at
> Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached accessibility but seemed more
> interested in promoting their own advancement within the field of
> accessibility. The new Microsoft accessibility
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Accessibility>team is finally focusing on
> their actual customers. What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a
> podcast demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary
> update. I hope you give it a listen.
>
> The views expressed here are purely my own, and should be taken as such.
>
> James Oates officially joined the Cool Blind Tech podcast team in the
> summer of 2014. James is an advocate of accessible technology across all
> platforms, with an emphasis on Windows. As a former K-12 educator, James
> brings his passion for teaching to the CBT audience in an effort to help
> listeners realize their potential and explore new avenues of empowerment
> through technology. Blind since childhood, James currently lives in
> Florida.






Re: t w blue

Andrew
 

Hello, if you mean T W Blu?

Try going to where the T W Blu program is, such as your C drive.

Once you find the program, go into folder & find the TW BKLU. EXE.

Press the applications key & select create shortcut.

The shortcut cut you just created should be  at bottom of same folder.

Cut shortcut CTRL + X.

Go back to your desktop & Ctrl + v To paste.

Press F2 on shortcut wuill allow you to change name of shortcut.

HTH  Andrew

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Hooper
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 9:25 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] t w blue

 

Anyone who uses this program for whatever reason this morning it won’t launch anyone else having this issue?