Date   

Numpad Nav Mode, New NVDA Addon Explained

Mike B
 

Hi All,
 
Here's all the info about this new NVDA Add-on, please read all the way through for all the information.

 
Numpad Nav Mode
list of 2 items
• Author: Luke Davis (Open Source Systems, Ltd.)
• Download
stable version
list end
 
Numpad Nav Mode is an
NVDA
 add-on, which allows you to easily switch your keyboard's numpad between NVDA's navigation controls and the non-screenreader Windows navigation controls.
 
The normal functions of the PC number pad, with numlock off, are: page up, page down, home, end, four-way arrow keys, and a delete key. But NVDA completely
takes over the numpad, to provide review keys, mouse controls, and object navigation controls. This is true even in laptop keyboard mode, which duplicates
those functions on non-numpad keys for those who do not have a numpad.
 
However some users do have a numpad on their laptop, and would prefer to use it for Windows navigation purposes, especially because some laptops do not
provide home, end, or other such keys. That is where this add-on can help. Additionally, some desktop users may sometimes find it convenient to use the
numpad for those keyboard functions rather than the normal keys, which this add-on enables.
 
How it works
 
With numlock off, no matter what keyboard layout you are using, this add-on will let you press Alt+NVDA+NumpadPlus (which is usually the long key second
up on the right), to quickly and easily switch between the normal NVDA navigation controls, and the classic Windows navigation controls. This key can be
remapped under Input Gestures, in the Input section.
 
Note that this add-on doesn't disable the use of numpad insert as an NVDA modifier, if you have it set as such. If you want that feature, please let me
know, although you can manually turn off numpad insert as a modifier in NVDA keyboard settings.
 
If you would prefer to have NVDA start with the Windows nav mode active by default, you can configure that in NVDA configuration. Go to NVDA's preferences,
then settings, and find the Numpad Nav Mode settings panel. There you will be able to select a checkbox to turn Windows Nav Mode on by default when you
start NVDA. To get there quickly, press NVDA+N, P, S, then N one or more times until you hear "Numpad Nav Mode".
 
New features
 
I encourage you to email with any feature suggestions, or other use cases that I haven't listed here, or just to let me know you find the add-on useful!
 
Inspiration
 
This add-on was the direct result of requests I've seen from users over the years, and a GitHub discussion in
#9549.
With thanks to @Qchristensen and @feerrenrut.
article end
 Original Message 
From:
Luke Davis
Hi all
 
I am happy to announce the initial release of Numpad Nav Mode: an add-on which
allows the number pad to be toggled between NVDA navigation commands, and
Windows cursor movement commands.  This can be particularly helpful to laptop
users with a numpad, who prefer to use laptop keyboard mode, and have their
numpad available for cursor movement commands.
 
The numpad's mode can be toggled with a key combination (NVDA+Alt+NumpadPlus,
by default), or you can have it permanently set to Windows mode by checking an
option in NVDA configuration.
 
 
 
Feel free to email with questions, comments, bug reports, or feature requests.
Regards,
Luke
 
From: Gene
Does that mean, as it seems to, that at last, JAWS users migrating to NVDA
will be able to use num;pad insert numpad down arrow for read to end when
using the desktop layout?  I tried, years ago, to convince the developers
that this command should be made available without success.  This command is
so frequently used by the majority of JAWS users that to get used to another
read to end command is an inconvenience and annoyance that many users would
consider a deterrent to using NVDA.  It also has the advantage of making
NVDA easier to use for someone who has problems using the left hand and who
wants to do as much with the right as possible.
Gene
 
 
From: Luke Davis
Sadly, no.
The main reason is that pressing NVDA+numpad down arrow invokes different
scancodes than pressing NVDA+down arrow.  In order to make them do the same thing, it
needs to be done intentionally.
 
This was not a use case I thought of, and none of the beta testers brought it
up.
 
However, you can easily remap NVDA+numpad2 from input gestures to do, read to end, with or without this add-on.
 
That said, I'll see about making the add-on's NVDA+arrow commands work as
you expect, in a future release.
 
 Thanks
Luke
 
From: Gene
This add-on may be appreciated by many desktop keyboard layout users of NVDA
as well who are migrating from JAWS.  The majority of JAWS users routinely
use numpad insert numpad 2 for read to end.  It appears, though this hasn't
been stated by Luke, that using the add-on will allow that Command to now be
used by JAWS users using the deskto;p layout.
 
Also, many JAWS users use the numpad for cursor movement and would, I would
thhink, want to continue to do so while using the desktop layout.  The
add-on may be more useful and convenient than originally anticipated.
Gene


Re: Seeking A Laser Printer

Joe Orozco
 

I'm glad I read this. I was on the verge of buying a Brother printer
from Amazon. I only hesitated because I was reading reviews of how
this line of printers signals the toner has finished even though there
is plenty of toner left in the cartridge. User reviews speak to using
a key sequence to trick the printer into foregoing the message. I
guess all printers will have their quirks, but this one felt
exceptionally irritating to perform without sighted assistance.

Joe

On 9/29/20, heather albright <kd5cbl@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi I have 2 brother printers from my family and they are not accessible!
Also they do not have an accessible line, the tec support always and I mean
always asks me if there is a sighted person with me to trouble shoot my
printer issues. So personally, I would never by brother. I miss my old hp
mls10 lazer printer, it worked so well, could not take windows10 drivers
otherwise it would still be here.
Hp always had better tec support and now they have an accessibility line. So
if you are looking for an accessible printer, stay away from minu only
printers and no digital screens. I know that is 90 percent of the market
woe. Heather

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Tim Grady
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 8:05 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Seeking A Laser Printer

Check out the brother line of printers.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 7:59 AM
To: TechTalk Mailing List <TechTalk@groups.io>
Subject: [TechTalk] Seeking A Laser Printer

Hi Group,

I know this has been discussed in the past on this and other lists, but I am
in the market for a color laser printer. It has to be accessible which
means some way of interacting other than the touch screen and voiceless
screen on the printer itself.

I called Amazon disability which lists dozens of them. They couldn't help me
a lot other than giving me the phone numbers for accessibility for Canon,
Xerox and HP.

Here's what happened when I tried these phone numbers:
Xerox the number was disconnected
HP never answered--even after 5 hours on two separate phones Canon answered
and a woman with a heavily accented voice assured me that the one she
referenced would do the trick. Color imageCLASS MF743Cdw. . This device
which it is a bit pricey at $379 US weighs in at a massive
64 pounds. I would consider this more seriously if I could be sure I could
lift and position it properly without collapsing my utility table.

So again as I may have done in the past, what are people using for a laser
printer and how are they accessing it: app, voiced onboard touch screen,
echo device?

Thanks for any help.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



















Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene
 

In my last message, quoted below, I should have said for screen-reader users who only use Windows, I shouldn't have specified NVDA.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

It is really unreasonable to lecture me about doing my homework when I spent
over half an hour looking for information before you gave a suggestion of
what to search for hours after the thread started. Now that you did, I have
done a search and I conclude that for NVDA users who only use Windows, the
threat you are alluding to is minimal. Here is a quote from one of the
articles I found:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/some-email-clients-are-vulnerable-to-attacks-via-mailto-links/
The research team said it tested 20 email clients for their attack scenario
and found that four clients were vulnerable. This list included:
• Evolution, the default email client for the GNOME desktop environment on
Linux (see CVE-2020-11879)
• KMail, the default email client for KDE desktop environments on Linux (see
CVE-2020-11880)
• IBM/HCL Notes on Windows (see CVE-2020-4089)
• Older versions of Thunderbird on Linux (now patched)

At times, when there is little danger, I believe it is justiffiable for
blind people to prefer reliability over having the latest program. Such a
decision should be made carefully, but there are times when it is
reasonable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene, you said, and I quote: "I've seen nothing that caused me to
reconsider my opinion."

Well, then, that's on you, because the search criteria I gave you was used,
by me, to locate the very references I made reference to. It is incumbent
on those offered the way to find something to do additional digging.

I say again, it is a fool, unless for very good reason (which you
conveniently ignored), who uses an old email client or browser when updated
versions are available.

You are always going to encounter accessibility issues over time, it goes
with the territory. That's never a good reason to avoid updates for any
software that has intimate contact with cyberspace on a continuous basis.
Period, end of sentence, never needs to be repeated again. Do your darned
homework.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene
 

It is really unreasonable to lecture me about doing my homework when I spent over half an hour looking for information before you gave a suggestion of what to search for hours after the thread started. Now that you did, I have done a search and I conclude that for NVDA users who only use Windows, the threat you are alluding to is minimal. Here is a quote from one of the articles I found:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/some-email-clients-are-vulnerable-to-attacks-via-mailto-links/
The research team said it tested 20 email clients for their attack scenario and found that four clients were vulnerable. This list included:
• Evolution, the default email client for the GNOME desktop environment on Linux (see CVE-2020-11879)
• KMail, the default email client for KDE desktop environments on Linux (see CVE-2020-11880)
• IBM/HCL Notes on Windows (see CVE-2020-4089)
• Older versions of Thunderbird on Linux (now patched)

At times, when there is little danger, I believe it is justiffiable for blind people to prefer reliability over having the latest program. Such a decision should be made carefully, but there are times when it is reasonable.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene, you said, and I quote: "I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion."

Well, then, that's on you, because the search criteria I gave you was used, by me, to locate the very references I made reference to. It is incumbent on those offered the way to find something to do additional digging.

I say again, it is a fool, unless for very good reason (which you conveniently ignored), who uses an old email client or browser when updated versions are available.

You are always going to encounter accessibility issues over time, it goes with the territory. That's never a good reason to avoid updates for any software that has intimate contact with cyberspace on a continuous basis. Period, end of sentence, never needs to be repeated again. Do your darned homework.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


amazon a/d films

A.Mac
 

hi all, i am trying to switch on a/d on the amazon films with no luck.

i found this on the web that is below, but i used 3 diffrent screen readers and still no luck.

To enable Audio Descriptions on supported devices:

1. Begin playback of an Audio Descriptions compatible video.

2. Open the &ldquo;Subtitles and Audio&rdquo; menu in the player control options.

3. Under the Audio options, select the language track with the Audio Description tag.

Audio Descriptions must be enabled for each device individually. Once enabled, Audio Descriptions play whenever you stream from that device.

any help please.


--
Thanks for your time in advance.
😎
Later
A.Mac
[all out going mail is scanned by Avira]


Help creating .pls files from radio station URL

Steven Johnson <saxmonger@...>
 

Anyone have a sure-fire method for creating a .pls file for the Book Port Plus or the Blaze ET from a radio station’s direct stream URL?  I have tried to use notepad by pasting the direct stream URL for several radio stations, of course, one radio station per file, and saving the file as a .pls.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.  I wonder if there is a repository on the web that has a lot of real radio stations from which I can create .pls files for media players, not user created internet radio stations.  I want honest-to-God. On-air radio stations, not user createdinternet stations. 


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Gene, you said, and I quote:  "I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion."

Well, then, that's on you, because the search criteria I gave you was used, by me, to locate the very references I made reference to.  It is incumbent on those offered the way to find something to do additional digging.

I say again, it is a fool, unless for very good reason (which you conveniently ignored), who uses an old email client or browser when updated versions are available.

You are always going to encounter accessibility issues over time, it goes with the territory.  That's never a good reason to avoid updates for any software that has intimate contact with cyberspace on a continuous basis.  Period, end of sentence, never needs to be repeated again.  Do your darned homework. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene
 

Please don't assume what I will or won't do. I am always willing to consider information that may mean that I am wrong or partly wrong about something. I did a number of searches and I presented arguments based on what I've seen and haven't seen over the years. It really isn't an unreasonable request to ask for information or say that others may have information I don't have. I made a good faith attempt to find information. I didn't find it.

As for your statement about someone being a fool, no, you don't have to be a fool. You can be a blind user who is tired of having unpredictable accessibility problems when an update of an e-mail program occurs and, if you haven't seen convincing evidence that it is unsafe and have seen no complaints of any blind user being hacked by malicious code in e-mails for years and all the discussion in the media I've seen has been about phishing for years, not embedded code, what I am saying is very reasonable.

If I am wrong, fine, but a fool? Hardly. If I were sighted, I wouldn't even be having this discussion.

If you want to present some links and discussion, fine. I have made a point of saying that others may know more than I do.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 10:21 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 09:51 AM, Gene wrote:
Someone with more technical knowledge and more knowledge of spam and hacking may have information that contradicts what I'm saying or someone may find information I haven't, but so far, I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion.-
Then, Gene, nothing would. There are tons of articles dating from August about how some e-mail clients are far more exploitable than others with regard to mailto: links, and that some of this has been/will be fixed by updates.

It is a fool who, unless for very good reason, uses an old e-mail client or browser when updated versions are available. And it is dirt simple to find that advice repeated, again, and again, and again.

But I will not say this again because a word to the wise is sufficient.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: senior moment

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 07:33 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Blind Help is where the pirated stuff is.
-
And that's precisely why they were booted from Groups.io.   They're a clearing house for hacked/cracked software, which is both illegal and immoral (that is, if you consider theft immoral).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 09:51 AM, Gene wrote:
Someone with more technical knowledge and more knowledge of spam and hacking may have information that contradicts what I'm saying or someone may find information I haven't, but so far, I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion.
-
Then, Gene, nothing would.  There are tons of articles dating from August about how some e-mail clients are far more exploitable than others with regard to mailto: links, and that some of this has been/will be fixed by updates.

It is a fool who, unless for very good reason, uses an old e-mail client or browser when updated versions are available.  And it is dirt simple to find that advice repeated, again, and again, and again.

But I will not say this again because a word to the wise is sufficient.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Donald L. Roberts
 

I too am using version 78 with no significant issues.


Don Roberts


On 9/29/2020 8:21 PM, Gene wrote:
Version 78.x, from my use, doesn't appear to have major or maybe not even much of minor problems now.  It works well on my machine with NVDA.

One problem was that the add-on that allowed for first letter navigation hadn't been updated but it has been now and it works with 78.x.  Its harder to find the button for setting which folders are displayed and not displayed, but I'm not sure if people use that feature to any extent.

I have no idea if updating or going back a version or two would solve your problems but that is one of the advantages of using the portable version. You can try different versions and still keep the version you are currently using on the machine.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Troy Burnham
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 10:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

I just checked and I'm using version 68.12 of thunderbird. I've heard
all about 78 and am staying away from it, supposedly that version won't
be offered yet through the program, supposedly you have to go download
and install it yourself. I still keep a close eye on it just in case though.

Troy



On 9/29/2020 9:50 PM, Gene wrote:
We don't know what version of Thunderbird you are using.  it has recently been the case that Thunderbird has been updating people to version 78.x. I've said many times on different lists that I see no reason to update thunderbird if all people want to do is use it as an e-mail program.  You night try going back a version or two and seeing if that solves the problem.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Troy Burnham
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 9:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

I'm using jaws and not NVDA but I have had a problem lately in
thunderbird where while I'm in a message list I'll delete a message and
jaws won't respond anymore. My fix is to arrow up and back down and this
seems to fix it but it's not a permanent fix as it happens again maybe a
few days later.

Also, once in a while I'll delete a message and jaws will say blank when
I give the say line command to read the next message header, but I know
the folder I'm in isn't empty. I have to shift tab out to my folder list
and then tab back into the folder to get jaws to refocus.

It hasn't been that long that either of these things have been
happening, and to my knowledge there has been no jaws or thunderbird
updates to cause the problem.

I can live with the work-around, I only mentioned it in case somebody
else is having one or both of these problems so you can try what works
for me to see if it works for you.

Troy



On 9/29/2020 6:06 PM, Gene wrote:
I didn't include the web page from which to get the portable version.
https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/thunderbird_portable

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

I don't know why you are having the problem.  Clearly, this isn't a general
problem.  If it was, there would be a lot of discussion from others long
before now, as you say the problem has been going on for months. I've tried
Thunderbird recently and have no such problems either with the current
version or a recent version.
It sounds to me as though something has been corrupted.  Rather than trouble
shoot, you may want to try the portable version of the program. Or you may
want to try uninstalling and reinstalling the program.  I haven't done this,
but I don't think your mail or addressbook will be lost.  I don't know if
anything else will such as add-ons or message rules.

The portable version has significant advantages and I think switching to it
is a very good idea.

First, you can easily try different versions.  You don't have to install and
uninstall different versions, nothing is installed with the portable
version.  That's one of the main points of portable versions of programs,
you can run them from anything, a thumb drive, an external hard drive, and
on any machine you wish.

If something goes wrong with the program, you can delete the copy you are
running, and copy a backup, which you have kept current, to the location you
usually run the program from.

Also, if the program updates, you can still have the backup of the current
version available.  If you don't want to use the update, you can simply
delete it and copy the backup of the old version to the location where you
run the program from.  Set the program not to automatically update, but to
warn you when an update becomes available and let you choose whether to
update to avoid the program you want to run as an older version from
updating when you don't want it to.  Make this change when you first install
the program and it will be retained in future updates and in the backup
copies you make.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Rich DeSteno
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

It has been many months now that the Thunderbird email program has been
very difficult to use with a screen-reading program. Prior to that, I
used Thunderbird successfully for many years.  I mostly use NVDA with
it.  For some months now, I often lose speech and the program slows down
to an agonizing crawl.  The apparent downloading of email is announced
one by one, choking off the speech you actually want to hear. At times,
I have not even been able to accomplish anything for many minutes due to
these problems.  I disabled the mail and status toolbars, but that did
not help.  Over the last day or two, it appears that the problem has
gotten even worse.  Unless someone can suggest a solution to these
problems, I am ready to give up on this program.  Thus, I would be
interested in hearing recommendations for an email program that actually
works well with screen-reading software, including NVDA. Thanks.






















.


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene
 

Also, compare these two ssearches:
I did a search for dangers of using old browser and found result after result.
I did a search for danger of using old e-mail program and found nothing in the first eight or nine results I looked at the links of and at times, at the excerpts below the links displayed by Google. I read parts of two articles whose titles and excerpts didn't definitely rule out what would be discussed. I didn't read the whole of either article, I skimmed part of one and read a few paragraphs of another. In neither case did I see any discussion, nor anything in what I read indicating that the dangers of using old e-mail programs would be discussed. One was about phishing and the other was about encryption.

I consider this more evidence to support my position. It is easy to find information about all sorts of phishing and other social engineering methods used to get people to take actions that give away personal information or lead them to install malware, such as running malicious attachments. I've found almost nothing about old e-mail programs and what I found hasn't said that the writer knows of reports of people being hacked through their e-mail program, only that one thing or another could happen.

Someone with more technical knowledge and more knowledge of spam and hacking may have information that contradicts what I'm saying or someone may find information I haven't, but so far, I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion.

At the same time, I'll say that it performs a service if people use new versions of e-mail programs as they are released. it alerts users of accessibility or other problems regarding the program for those who use new versions and it makes it more likely the problems will be reported and corrected. My concern is for the person who wants predictability and not to possibly have problems after an upgrade. It depends what your goals are and the kind of user you are.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 8:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Thunderbird has lots of otherfeatures than e-mail, which is why I say, when
I discuss the question of upgrading, that if you only use the program for
e-mail, I don't think upgrading is necessary. I don't know about the other
features of the program, so I don't say you shouldn't upgrade if you use
those features.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 6:28 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Hi Gene,

If what you are saying is true then my question is why do software
companies--even free ones like Mozilla--always mention security as well
as efficiency and functionality when they announce a new update. I could
understand if the only companies doing this were for profit, but Mozilla
is a free download. What is in it for them to announce that a
particular update is a security and efficiency update?


On 9/30/2020 1:09 AM, Gene wrote:
If we were talking about browsers, I would agree not to run old ones.
I did e-mail searches and found very little supporting your position. Almost everything I fouhnd talked about phishihng and social engineering. I did find one discussion about a truly archaic version of Outlook, Outlook 2000 and I found a few general statements about unpatched exploits but almost nothing, thus leading me to continue to believe what I believed before, that exploits in e-mail programs are not generally used in attacks these days.

This discussion, talking about a really archaic version of Outlook has content that may support your contention, but I found almost no other discussion of the question in a search for is it dangerous to use an old version of an e-mail program. And note that this discussion doesn't say that to any of the participants' knowledge, anyone has been hacked through this truly archaic version of Outlook by the use of unpatched exploits It simply says that this or that can be done..
https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/112342/how-vulnerable-is-an-older-version-of-outlook-as-an-email-application

I'm not saying what you say is wrong, but until I get good evidence otherwise, I shall continue to hold my views, that ((1) there is no interest in attacking people through malicious code these days in e-mails and that (2) being on lists like this for years and not having seen one message from anyone about being attacked in other ways than by phishing and social engineering and that 3) the links for about fifteen results I read, I read the links, I didn't go to the pages, but the links don't mention embedded code, they discuss phishing and other forms of social engineering, all this is, in my opinion, strong evidence that I am correct.

I'm not telling anyone they must do anything, either. I'm presenting the reasons I believe I am correct.

Here is the link to one of the searches I did. It was worded about like this:
Are e-mails with malicious code common in 2020

You may see the results. I've looked at the links to something like fifteen results and they all deal with attacks such as phishing and no links mention messages with embedded malicious code.
https://www.google.com/search?gbv=1&q=are+e-mails+with+malicious+code+common+in+2020re+malicious+e-mails+common+in+2020&oq=&aqs=

As I said, I looked at the links themselves, I didn't go to the pages.

If you have good evidence to show that I am or have a reasonable chance of being wrong, that's fine. You have more technical knowledge than I do and you may find such information. I shall continue to believe I am correct unless I see convincing information.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 10:42 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 11:28 PM, Gene wrote:
You may correct me if I'm wrong on these points or disagree-
I am not going to, because you are entirely capable of doing a web search on "email client attacks" or "email attack surfaces" or similar to get reams of documentation on what has been going on for years.

I'm not going to tell anyone they must do anything. I'm also not going to tell them that leaving web browsers or email clients in an un-updated state is a wise or safe thing to do, because it isn't.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Norman
 

I don't really think mozilla's release schedule has anything to do with the decline of there browser popularity. I think The main reason for this is that there browser is considered cluttered by a lot of people and because it's a little slower than brave/chrome/edge.

Brave and chrome have a release schedule that if anything is even faster than mozilla.


JMT.



On 9/30/2020 8:16 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


Mozilla seems to have a peculiar obsession with security. They are constantly releasing new versions of Firefox and Thunderbird which are purported to be "more secure" than previous versions, but of course, there is really no way to substantiate their claims aside from taking their word for it. I suspect that they use their claims of improved security to justify their ambitious release schedule, a strategy which has largely backfired, because Firefox has experienced a steep decline in share of the browser market.  


Gerald



On 9/30/2020 7:28 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

If what you are saying is true then my question is why do software companies--even free ones like Mozilla--always mention security as well as efficiency and functionality when they announce a new update. I could understand if the only companies doing this were for profit, but Mozilla is a free download.  What is in it for them to announce that a particular update is a security and efficiency update?


On 9/30/2020 1:09 AM, Gene wrote:
If we were talking about browsers, I would agree not to run old ones.
I did e-mail searches and found very little supporting your position. Almost everything I fouhnd talked about phishihng and social engineering.  I did find one discussion about a truly archaic version of Outlook, Outlook 2000 and I found a few general statements about unpatched exploits but almost nothing, thus leading me to continue to believe what I believed before, that exploits in e-mail programs are not generally used in attacks these days.

This discussion, talking about a really archaic version of Outlook has content that may support your contention, but I found almost no other discussion of the question in a search for is it dangerous to use an old version of an e-mail program.  And note that this discussion doesn't say that to any of the participants' knowledge, anyone has been hacked through this truly archaic version of Outlook by the use of unpatched exploits  It simply says that this or that can be done..
https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/112342/how-vulnerable-is-an-older-version-of-outlook-as-an-email-application

I'm not saying what you say is wrong, but until I get good evidence otherwise, I shall continue to hold my views, that ((1) there is no interest in attacking people through malicious code these days in e-mails and that (2) being on lists like this for years and not having seen one message from anyone about being attacked in other ways than by phishing and social engineering and that 3) the links for about fifteen results I read, I read the links, I didn't go to the pages, but the links don't mention embedded code, they discuss phishing and other forms of social engineering, all this is, in my opinion, strong evidence that I am correct.

I'm not telling anyone they must do anything, either.  I'm presenting the reasons I believe I am correct.

Here is the link to one of the searches I did.  It was worded about like this:
Are e-mails with malicious code common in 2020

You may see the results.  I've looked at the links to something like fifteen results and they all deal with attacks such as phishing and no links mention messages with embedded malicious code.
https://www.google.com/search?gbv=1&q=are+e-mails+with+malicious+code+common+in+2020re+malicious+e-mails+common+in+2020&oq=&aqs=

As I said, I looked at the links themselves, I didn't go to the pages.

If you have good evidence to show that I am or have a reasonable chance of being wrong, that's fine.  You have more technical knowledge than I do and you may find such information.  I shall continue to believe I am correct unless I see convincing information.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 10:42 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 11:28 PM, Gene wrote:
You may correct me if I'm wrong on these points or disagree-
I am not going to, because you are entirely capable of doing a web search on "email client attacks" or "email attack surfaces" or similar to get reams of documentation on what has been going on for years.

I'm not going to tell anyone they must do anything.  I'm also not going to tell them that leaving web browsers or email clients in an un-updated state is a wise or safe thing to do, because it isn't.



Re: firefox question

Gene
 

I use Firefox off and on but I mostly use the Brave browser so I don't remember the shortcuts. As I recall, I hear the shortcuts spoken but its been awhile since I've seen the dialog. Whatever the case, someone else discussed how to turn off the function. If you have problems doing so, let us know.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Kay Malmquist
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 7:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] firefox question

Hi Gene,
That is just the problem. I never hear the shortcut at the end so don't
even know what to press. In this case, it is just asking me if I want
Firefox to remember the password for a certain page and I don't. so turning
this off wouldn't bother me at all. If you know what the shortcuts keys
are, that would be great as well.


Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@gmail.com

Ask for what you want. Believe that you deserve it, and then allow Life to
give it to you.

- Louise Hay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] firefox question


Someone will tell you how the offers can be stopped, but when you hear such
messages, let them play fully at least once. If you do, you will hear
shortcut commands announced at the end so you don't have to find the
message. You can accept or not accept the offer but I'm speaking more
generally in case you hear other announcements you want to respond to.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Kay Malmquist
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 1:49 PM
To: TechTalk
Subject: [TechTalk] firefox question


When I type in a user name or password Firefox comes up with a question
asking if I want to save this info. I have never been able to figure out
where this question is so I can select the no box or to tell it never to ask
me again. Anyone know how to shut it up? Many thanks for any help.


Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@gmail.com

Ask for what you want. Believe that you deserve it, and then allow Life to
give it to you.

- Louise Hay


Re: senior moment

Gene
 

Also, if you use the Pontes site, you don't get unwanted programs. You just get the program.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 6:33 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] senior moment

Hi Ann,

Blind Help is where the pirated stuff is. I believe you want
ninite.com. However, I was not aware that ninite had Pontes. The page
for Pontes is:
http://www.pontes.ro/en/scripts/
The direct download page is:
http://www.pontes.ro/en/scripts/#pmd


On 9/30/2020 7:09 AM, John Dowling wrote:
I believe you're thinking of:
http://www.blindhelp.net
John.

Once you replace negative thoughts with positive ones, you'll start having positive results. -Willie Nelson

On Sep 30, 2020, at 7:04 AM, Ann Parsons <akp@sero.email> wrote:

I


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene
 

Thunderbird has lots of otherfeatures than e-mail, which is why I say, when I discuss the question of upgrading, that if you only use the program for e-mail, I don't think upgrading is necessary. I don't know about the other features of the program, so I don't say you shouldn't upgrade if you use those features.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 6:28 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Hi Gene,

If what you are saying is true then my question is why do software
companies--even free ones like Mozilla--always mention security as well
as efficiency and functionality when they announce a new update. I could
understand if the only companies doing this were for profit, but Mozilla
is a free download. What is in it for them to announce that a
particular update is a security and efficiency update?


On 9/30/2020 1:09 AM, Gene wrote:
If we were talking about browsers, I would agree not to run old ones.
I did e-mail searches and found very little supporting your position. Almost everything I fouhnd talked about phishihng and social engineering. I did find one discussion about a truly archaic version of Outlook, Outlook 2000 and I found a few general statements about unpatched exploits but almost nothing, thus leading me to continue to believe what I believed before, that exploits in e-mail programs are not generally used in attacks these days.

This discussion, talking about a really archaic version of Outlook has content that may support your contention, but I found almost no other discussion of the question in a search for is it dangerous to use an old version of an e-mail program. And note that this discussion doesn't say that to any of the participants' knowledge, anyone has been hacked through this truly archaic version of Outlook by the use of unpatched exploits It simply says that this or that can be done..
https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/112342/how-vulnerable-is-an-older-version-of-outlook-as-an-email-application

I'm not saying what you say is wrong, but until I get good evidence otherwise, I shall continue to hold my views, that ((1) there is no interest in attacking people through malicious code these days in e-mails and that (2) being on lists like this for years and not having seen one message from anyone about being attacked in other ways than by phishing and social engineering and that 3) the links for about fifteen results I read, I read the links, I didn't go to the pages, but the links don't mention embedded code, they discuss phishing and other forms of social engineering, all this is, in my opinion, strong evidence that I am correct.

I'm not telling anyone they must do anything, either. I'm presenting the reasons I believe I am correct.

Here is the link to one of the searches I did. It was worded about like this:
Are e-mails with malicious code common in 2020

You may see the results. I've looked at the links to something like fifteen results and they all deal with attacks such as phishing and no links mention messages with embedded malicious code.
https://www.google.com/search?gbv=1&q=are+e-mails+with+malicious+code+common+in+2020re+malicious+e-mails+common+in+2020&oq=&aqs=

As I said, I looked at the links themselves, I didn't go to the pages.

If you have good evidence to show that I am or have a reasonable chance of being wrong, that's fine. You have more technical knowledge than I do and you may find such information. I shall continue to believe I am correct unless I see convincing information.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 10:42 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 11:28 PM, Gene wrote:
You may correct me if I'm wrong on these points or disagree-
I am not going to, because you are entirely capable of doing a web search on "email client attacks" or "email attack surfaces" or similar to get reams of documentation on what has been going on for years.

I'm not going to tell anyone they must do anything. I'm also not going to tell them that leaving web browsers or email clients in an un-updated state is a wise or safe thing to do, because it isn't.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Gerald,

It still doesn't explain what's in it for the distributors of free software. Undoubtedly, those people are taking significant numbers of man hours to develop these new releases.  They rely on donations to get their remuneration.  This is always  a dicey proposition at best.  If they were all making it up, it would seem to be counter productive. If there are really no significant security issues with mail programs, Why not just release periodic updates for new features?  They must be onto something.



On 9/30/2020 8:16 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


Mozilla seems to have a peculiar obsession with security. They are constantly releasing new versions of Firefox and Thunderbird which are purported to be "more secure" than previous versions, but of course, there is really no way to substantiate their claims aside from taking their word for it. I suspect that they use their claims of improved security to justify their ambitious release schedule, a strategy which has largely backfired, because Firefox has experienced a steep decline in share of the browser market.  


Gerald



On 9/30/2020 7:28 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

If what you are saying is true then my question is why do software companies--even free ones like Mozilla--always mention security as well as efficiency and functionality when they announce a new update. I could understand if the only companies doing this were for profit, but Mozilla is a free download.  What is in it for them to announce that a particular update is a security and efficiency update?


On 9/30/2020 1:09 AM, Gene wrote:
If we were talking about browsers, I would agree not to run old ones.
I did e-mail searches and found very little supporting your position. Almost everything I fouhnd talked about phishihng and social engineering.  I did find one discussion about a truly archaic version of Outlook, Outlook 2000 and I found a few general statements about unpatched exploits but almost nothing, thus leading me to continue to believe what I believed before, that exploits in e-mail programs are not generally used in attacks these days.

This discussion, talking about a really archaic version of Outlook has content that may support your contention, but I found almost no other discussion of the question in a search for is it dangerous to use an old version of an e-mail program.  And note that this discussion doesn't say that to any of the participants' knowledge, anyone has been hacked through this truly archaic version of Outlook by the use of unpatched exploits  It simply says that this or that can be done..
https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/112342/how-vulnerable-is-an-older-version-of-outlook-as-an-email-application

I'm not saying what you say is wrong, but until I get good evidence otherwise, I shall continue to hold my views, that ((1) there is no interest in attacking people through malicious code these days in e-mails and that (2) being on lists like this for years and not having seen one message from anyone about being attacked in other ways than by phishing and social engineering and that 3) the links for about fifteen results I read, I read the links, I didn't go to the pages, but the links don't mention embedded code, they discuss phishing and other forms of social engineering, all this is, in my opinion, strong evidence that I am correct.

I'm not telling anyone they must do anything, either.  I'm presenting the reasons I believe I am correct.

Here is the link to one of the searches I did.  It was worded about like this:
Are e-mails with malicious code common in 2020

You may see the results.  I've looked at the links to something like fifteen results and they all deal with attacks such as phishing and no links mention messages with embedded malicious code.
https://www.google.com/search?gbv=1&q=are+e-mails+with+malicious+code+common+in+2020re+malicious+e-mails+common+in+2020&oq=&aqs=

As I said, I looked at the links themselves, I didn't go to the pages.

If you have good evidence to show that I am or have a reasonable chance of being wrong, that's fine.  You have more technical knowledge than I do and you may find such information.  I shall continue to believe I am correct unless I see convincing information.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 10:42 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 11:28 PM, Gene wrote:
You may correct me if I'm wrong on these points or disagree-
I am not going to, because you are entirely capable of doing a web search on "email client attacks" or "email attack surfaces" or similar to get reams of documentation on what has been going on for years.

I'm not going to tell anyone they must do anything.  I'm also not going to tell them that leaving web browsers or email clients in an un-updated state is a wise or safe thing to do, because it isn't.



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Amazon Looking for Screen Reader Users

Sharon Hooley
 

Whoa, that should have been posted last week.  Oh well, I hope there will be other opportunities.


Is it hard to communicate, even with hearing aids?  Visit
www.CochlearAmericas.com

On Sep 29, 2020, at 7:35 AM, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:


Hi All,
 
This was in last weeks Top Tech Tidbits.
 
15. Amazon Seeks Screen Reader Users for Paid Research.  Amazon is currently seeking screen reader users, age 18 and older, to participate in paid research regarding image descriptions on product web pages. If you are an adult screen reader user you can fill out a brief qualification survey with 5 questions to see if you qualify for the study. If you qualify, they will send an email with instructions and a link to the full study. Those who complete the full study will receive a $100 Amazon gift card. The qualification survey is expected to take only a
few minutes to complete, and will only be active until September 30, 2020:
https://bvi1-qual.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_4HFjROGxCWaII5f

Take care and stay safe.  Mike.
Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!


Re: firefox question

Kay Malmquist
 

Hi Gene,
That is just the problem. I never hear the shortcut at the end so don't
even know what to press. In this case, it is just asking me if I want
Firefox to remember the password for a certain page and I don't. so turning
this off wouldn't bother me at all. If you know what the shortcuts keys
are, that would be great as well.


Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@gmail.com

Ask for what you want. Believe that you deserve it, and then allow Life to
give it to you.

- Louise Hay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] firefox question


Someone will tell you how the offers can be stopped, but when you hear such
messages, let them play fully at least once. If you do, you will hear
shortcut commands announced at the end so you don't have to find the
message. You can accept or not accept the offer but I'm speaking more
generally in case you hear other announcements you want to respond to.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Kay Malmquist
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 1:49 PM
To: TechTalk
Subject: [TechTalk] firefox question


When I type in a user name or password Firefox comes up with a question
asking if I want to save this info. I have never been able to figure out
where this question is so I can select the no box or to tell it never to ask
me again. Anyone know how to shut it up? Many thanks for any help.


Kay Malmquist
kay.malmquist@gmail.com

Ask for what you want. Believe that you deserve it, and then allow Life to
give it to you.

- Louise Hay


Re: senior moment

Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

Well, glad I didn't download anything from BlindHelp. Yes it was Ninite I wanted. Thanks.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

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