Date   

Re: Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Carlos
 

"Second Screen"
should be the same as
"Projector Only"
but some users have reported that this trick does not work in Windows 10 which means it may also not work in Windows 8.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Delzer" <curtis@calweb.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices


I do not have "projector only," only "pc screen" which appears to be the
one selected. The others are "second screen, duplicate and extend."
-----
Curtis Delzer, HS.
K6VFO
San Bernardino, CA

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:15:20 -0700
"Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com> wrote:

Will this stick after a restart of computer?

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 9:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Sigh. I just posted this one the other day and forgot about it. You can try pressing WindowsKey+P and then select "Projector Only".
When you want to turn it back on, press WindowsKey+P again and select "Computer Only".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos" <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices


Yes, most laptops should have an Fn shortcut for this which is
certainly easier. Of course, if you want to do this on a desktop, you
may have to look into more convoluted methods like DEVCON.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices


That DEVCON resource looks really cool.

I suggest try path of least resistance first and give the backlight
suggestion a read, and if it does nothing for you, then try the more
involved suggestions.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 8:41 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices

It should be possible to create a shortcut/hotkey which would disable
the display and still allow you to continue using the computer with
the DEVCON http://www.robvanderwoude.com/devcon.php
utility, but the command would be machine specific since it uses
hardware IDs to disable devices.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices


I think the person wants to turn off the monitor and continue using
his/her computer. This tool and the previous will turn off the
monitor, but once a key is pressed, the monitor will probably turn
back on. These two tips are more of a sleep mode for the monitor
rather than a way of permanently turning off monitor.

Again, try the solution I suggested and hopefully your laptop user
manual will contain information as to how to permanently turn off
backlight of your computer.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 8:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Or this utility.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Launchers-Shutdown-Tools/Turn-Off-
Monitor-Factormystic.shtml

----- Original Message -----
From: Sachin <mailto:sachinantony001@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices


Hi Carlos, do you have any experience with any of those third-party
utility.
I am really concerned about this issue


On 11/06/2016 8:05 AM, Carlos wrote:


There may be some third-party utilities which can do this, but short
of Fn key shortcuts on laptops or completely disabling the display in
Device Manager, there is no way that is built-in to Windows.

----- Original Message -----
From: Sachin <mailto:sachinantony001@gmail.com>
To: <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop's display in Windows like Android or I Devices


Hi Kimsan, first of all, I have an HP notebook. I doubt this method
would turnoff display, however it would turn back on, when I start
using the notebook. correct me if I am wrong. I want to do it like the
screen



Curtain on I phone. I do appreciate any tips on this matter & I
wouldn't mind testing & experimenting, since I have Toolwiz Time Freeze installed.



On 10/06/2016 10:29 PM, Kimsan wrote:


What laptop/brand you have?
The fn key with one of the function keys might do this, however, I
would hate for you to fn and press a function key and not knowing what
will occur, as your machine might blow up.
On my Lenovo laptop, it's fn f9 to turn off the display. Not saying
yours is the same, so I recommend consulting the manual for your laptop.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Sachin
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 9:35 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop's
display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Hello everyone, the subject line says it all. I am concerned about
this because of some privacy issues.

thanks in advance

























Re: Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Curtis Delzer
 

I do not have "projector only," only "pc screen" which appears to be the
one selected. The others are "second screen, duplicate and extend."
-----
Curtis Delzer, HS.
K6VFO
San Bernardino, CA

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:15:20 -0700
"Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com> wrote:

Will this stick after a restart of computer?

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 9:11 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Sigh. I just posted this one the other day and forgot about it. You can try pressing WindowsKey+P and then select "Projector Only".
When you want to turn it back on, press WindowsKey+P again and select "Computer Only".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos" <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices


Yes, most laptops should have an Fn shortcut for this which is
certainly easier. Of course, if you want to do this on a desktop, you
may have to look into more convoluted methods like DEVCON.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices


That DEVCON resource looks really cool.

I suggest try path of least resistance first and give the backlight
suggestion a read, and if it does nothing for you, then try the more
involved suggestions.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 8:41 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices

It should be possible to create a shortcut/hotkey which would disable
the display and still allow you to continue using the computer with
the DEVCON http://www.robvanderwoude.com/devcon.php
utility, but the command would be machine specific since it uses
hardware IDs to disable devices.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy" <jeremy.richards7@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices


I think the person wants to turn off the monitor and continue using
his/her computer. This tool and the previous will turn off the
monitor, but once a key is pressed, the monitor will probably turn
back on. These two tips are more of a sleep mode for the monitor
rather than a way of permanently turning off monitor.

Again, try the solution I suggested and hopefully your laptop user
manual will contain information as to how to permanently turn off
backlight of your computer.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 8:27 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Or this utility.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Launchers-Shutdown-Tools/Turn-Off-
Monitor-Factormystic.shtml

----- Original Message -----
From: Sachin <mailto:sachinantony001@gmail.com>
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices


Hi Carlos, do you have any experience with any of those third-party
utility.
I am really concerned about this issue


On 11/06/2016 8:05 AM, Carlos wrote:


There may be some third-party utilities which can do this, but short
of Fn key shortcuts on laptops or completely disabling the display in
Device Manager, there is no way that is built-in to Windows.

----- Original Message -----
From: Sachin <mailto:sachinantony001@gmail.com>
To: <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my
laptop’s display in Windows like Android or I Devices


Hi Kimsan, first of all, I have an HP notebook. I doubt this method
would turnoff display, however it would turn back on, when I start
using the notebook. correct me if I am wrong. I want to do it like the
screen



Curtain on I phone. I do appreciate any tips on this matter & I
wouldn't mind testing & experimenting, since I have Toolwiz Time Freeze installed.



On 10/06/2016 10:29 PM, Kimsan wrote:


What laptop/brand you have?
The fn key with one of the function keys might do this, however, I
would hate for you to fn and press a function key and not knowing what
will occur, as your machine might blow up.
On my Lenovo laptop, it's fn f9 to turn off the display. Not saying
yours is the same, so I recommend consulting the manual for your laptop.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Sachin
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 9:35 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Is there any way to completely turnoff my laptop’s
display in Windows like Android or I Devices

Hello everyone, the subject line says it all. I am concerned about
this because of some privacy issues.

thanks in advance

























Re: Talking Bathroom Scale

Mike Thomas
 


yes, I save the sales receipt.  Staple the receipt to the warranty card and I have a letter of explanation in the computer I can change the dates on, and I'm ready to put it in a boxand send it off to Arizona for replacement.  Since I use two of these scales simultaneously, I've gotten them replaced free of charge several times, saving a lot of money on replacing the scales.  Might I also suggest scanning in the receipt so it can be reproduced whenever you need it.
 
Mike

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale

 
In fact, my Phoenix talking bathroom scale is covered by My Weigh’s 30-year warranty.  But returning it to them for a replacement isn’t worth the hassle.  Besides, I can’t find the sales receipt, which is required, and the merchant I purchased it from no longer has a record of the transaction on its site, so I’m out of luck.  It has been my experience that such generous warranties are of little practical value because they usually require jumping through a lot of hoops or spending almost as much for shipping and service charges as the cost of buying a new unit. Do you know anyone who saves a sales receipt or original packing carton for 30years?  
 
Gerald
 
 
 
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale
 
Geraldd,  I use the My Weigh talking kitchen scales, which come with a 30 year warranty.  Since I weigh out dry chemicals for my work, they frequently begin to ddecline from the airborn chemicals that play havoc with the button switches.  I'd almost bet you the bathroom scales carry a similar warranty, and you can get a replacement.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:26 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale
 
 
Happy Independence Day holiday, gang.  Sorry I caused such a furor over the article about the fatal self-driving car accident.  But let’s get back to practical technology.  This morning, when I stepped on my Phoenix by My Weigh talking scale for my monthly weigh-in, I discovered to my chagrin that it was totally dead.  I installed three different brand-new 9 volt alkaline batteries to try to revive it, but no luck.  So I’m in the market for a new talking bathroom scale other than this one, which only lasted three years with infrequent use.  Amazon.com has a nice selection of talking scales between $25 and $30, which is much cheaper than the blindness vendors charge for the same products.  I have narrowed my choices to either the American Weigh 330CVS or the Taylor Precision 7084 talking scales, both of which have received mostly positive reviews.  Does anyone own one of these two models, and if so, how accessible is it, and how loud and clear is the speech?  Are there any other models you guys would recommend?  Please provide specific brands and model numbers or names.  Thanks for your feedback. 
 
Gerald
 
 


Re: How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7 #article

Jeremy <jeremy.richards7@...>
 

Hi all,

Since I thought it could help the list, or at least those who also hate ribbons, I just tried this Take ownership and file renaming procedure on my Windows 10 computer.

Good news, it works!

bad news, it prevents WordPad and Microsoft Paint from launching--and who knows what other applications.

I was pleasantly surprised when I launched the new W10 File explorer and found that a press of the alt key showed the usual File, Edit, View, Tools menus. Pressing down arrow to access the menu items was also like previous versions of Windows.

Though having the old Windows Explorer menus on Windows 10 is great, I now have to go back and undo what I broke. :(

There's a better hack out there, and those who want to benefit from my experimentation can try it out as it fixes the problems I described:
http://www.askvg.com/yet-another-way-to-remove-ribbon-ui-from-windows-8-explorer-without-breaking-paint-and-wordpad-apps/

Talk to you guys later, have some praying to do while system restore runs--if not, I'll have to consider a system reset. :)

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 5:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

I have seen another utility which supposedly made changes to UIRibbon.dll to restore menu bars, but I did not know you could accomplish the same by simply renaming it. Perhaps that is all the utility I have seen does, but this was some time ago.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7


Hi Carlos,


What about the below method which I receives a while back from whom I don't remember.


I did a google search on this and found an article on how to do it. You have to download a registry key called "take ownership". After you install the key you go to windows system32 and look for a file called:
UIRibbon.dll. You then right-click it with the applications key and choose the context menu "take ownership". Then you right-click it again and choose rename. Just change it to UIRibbon-bak.dll and reboot the pc.
At that point the old windows 7 style menu bar will be back on all windows explorer windows.


Of course this will not affect programs that use ribbons separate from Windows Explorer, but even the restoration of standard menus in Windows Explorer would be a great thing in my opinion.



On 7/3/2016 6:38 AM, Carlos wrote:
Although the utility discussed in this article,
http://windows.wonderhowto.com/how-to/get-back-classic-look-feel-explo
rer-windows-10-0163557/ claims to be able to convert ribbons back to
menus in Explorer. However, this will not affect all programs which
use ribbons and I have no idea if it is accessible. I have also seen
a few ad-ons which can supposedly do this for Office as well, but in
that case the menu always seems to be presented as an additional tab
so they don't actually replace the ribbons.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7


No, I doubt that anything short of software as intrusive as a
screen reader can do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kimsan
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7


This classic shell of which you speak of does it take the ribbons
out from windows explorer or whatever it’s called in windows 10?

I normally can get along with the ribbons but good lord it’s
confusing in the aforementioned location…



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 2:18 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7



In my case Classic Shell

http://www.classicshell.net/

took care of about 95% of anything that I missed from previous
versions of Windows.

----- Original Message -----

From: Joe

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7



I hope the article below helps someone?--Joe



How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7
toggle-button

Submitted by rhiannon | Last update on 16th June, 2016 - 9:44pm





If you want to use Windows 10 and it's new features (or have to
use Windows 10 for various reasons) but would be happier with the
Windows 7 interface, then this article is a must read.
The article outlines 15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel
like Windows 7, getting you as close to the familiar Windows 7
interface as possible. Windows 10 has made some improvements over
Windows 8 (bringing back the Start menu for one) but it's still quite
a difference to anyone using Windows 7. With Windows 8, installing a
Start Menu Replacement made Windows 8 look and act like Windows 7 for
the most part. In Windows 10, it's not quite as easy.
Here's a list of the various changes that make Windows 10 more
like Windows 7:

a.. Windows 7 like Start Menu
b.. Aero Glass Transparency
c.. Disable the Lock Screen
d.. Remove Cortana search box from the taskbar
e.. Disable Windows Explorer ribbon
f.. Disable Quick Access
g.. Disable Action Center
h.. Install desktop gadgets
i.. Get Windows 7 like folders
j.. Uninstall and remove Edge browser
k.. Get rid of default modern apps
l.. Use a local account to sign in
m.. Enable the classic Personalization window
n.. Set Windows 7 wallpaper as your desktop background
Here are two additional helpful Windows 10 articles - one on
blocking Windows 10 updates (I'm not in favor of forced updates), and
this article has options for Home versions of Windows 10. Windows Pro
and up have some options for blocking Windows Updates that the Home
version doesn't. The other one addresses six of the most common
Windows 10 annoyances and how to fix them.
Block Windows 10 forced updates without breaking your machine
Six Windows 10 annoyances: How to make them go away for good

You may have noticed that there are 14 (instead of 15) items
listed. I left off the "Install Windows 7 games" because the link goes
to a forum where you have to register to see the information. You can
find a direct link to the download listed in our article here: Get
Classic Windows 7 Games in Windows 8 and 10 for Free.

15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7

You can find more Tech Treats here.



Please rate this article:
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Comments
Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 0:44

(126982)

My only concern is that after all these tweaks, will any of
them break or don't work after another update of Windows 10?

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 1:16

(126983)

Jojo,
The more you "tweak" the higher the chance of the tweak being
"broken" by an update; that update does nothing but "reset" the tweak
to a known good default like MIcro$oft wants it.

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Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 1:48

(126984)

Yes eikelein I think it's true that chances are higher for
broken parts when we have more tweaks.

The problem is that we do not know if some tweaks are
interlinked in the system settings contained in the registry or hidden
files and how they work together.

Micro$oft might update some of them, leaving some remaining
tweaked parts untouched since they were considered or supposed to be
original without needing an update. It would be perfect if the tweaked
parts and the updated parts can work together :) but a nightmare if
not :(

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Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 2:31

(126987)

Jojo,
You are correct again.

And exactly that is why I don't like to tweak at all.

I use Classic Shell; there is at least a chance that things
will eventually get fixed should an update "break" it.
Worst case I just uninstall Classic Shell and live with W10 as
it is meant to be.

If I really hate it I can still switch to Linux and/or run
Linux in Virtual Box... ;-)

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:40

(126995)

eikelein, how different is Classic Shell from Winaero on how it
instigates changes and in your opinion do you think Winaero would have
problems with updates?

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Submitted by eikelein on 23. June 2016 - 1:30

(127001)

Ron525,
I guess it's about time to wish you a Happy B-Day.

To answer your question: I have no clue. Quite some time ago I
found Classic Shell's description, I believe on Sourceforge.
I liked what I read and tried it; have never looked back and
just don't have enough time and energy to make any kind of comparison. Sorry.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 23. June 2016 - 7:07

(127005)

eikelein,
Thanks.

I found Winaero being mentioned a bit on W10, W7 threads on
Whirlpool Forum AU, recommended for some tweaks, It has been around
for a few years and members have used it for a fair amount of time
with no issues being raised.

I don't have it installed on my daily l/top at present so will
run it on 2nd l/top to see if it has problems, nothing untoward
happened after latest W10 update last night.

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Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 22. June 2016 - 4:48

(126989)

There is another issue related to this in that many folks still
insist on using so called registry cleaners for reasons beyond my
comprehension. These things are coded to see a system in a certain
state and chuck out anything that doesn't match. In so doing they are
quite capable of trashing Windows and often do. A tweaked system is
even more likely to be "corrected" to produce a nice blank screen at
next boot . :) MC - Site Manager.

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Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 14:01

(126976)

It appears to me as computers were evolving it was a race for
the best bling i.e. good colour outstanding icon graphics.

So what happened now we have to put up with faint characters
that are hard to see and often small pale colours and flat grade
school quality graphics.

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Submitted by Jojo Yee on 21. June 2016 - 23:49

(126980)

True, ron525, but it appears to me that technology is one
thing, trend or fashion is another.

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Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:31

(126994)

How true Jojo Yee, I see that issue on my Xiaomi phone adding a
lot of fancy mods(many could be called bloat) far out weighs true
enhancements, simplifications and fixing bugs.

But I think some of the W10 changes create more actions to get
to things as well, or I still have to adjust to a different OS.
Maybe change is not liked but when one is used to a product and
it it works so easily and smooth you start to question why it has been
altered.

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Submitted by These Old Eyes on 20. June 2016 - 20:21

(126966)

Will someone at MS please notice that the population is aging,
in many cases (like mine) with diminishing ability for eyes to adjust
to radically different light levels? I'd like to see a third party
develop an appropriately intrusive "app" (shudder) to restore user
control over background colors in Window 10, preferably within the next month!

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Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 20:41

(126967)

This is all I could come up, hopefully things will improve.
http://www.groovypost.com/howto/using-Windows-10-improved-color-personal...

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Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 15:39

(126959)

Howdy, rhiannon:

Appreciate your response.

I personally am fed up with Microsoft's ANTICS... however I am
dependent on Win 7 now due to software Internet Marketing software
that runs on Windows only.

I have been watching Linux for years... but now able to bring
myself across the threshold for business purposes... so I have to
plead IGNORANCE on my part in regards to the Linux world.

Sounds to me like virtual machine or virtual box would be the
way to go vs. dual boot option.

My current laptop is a:

Gateway EC5801u laptop

- Intel Core 2 Duo SU7300 1.2GHz, 4GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, 15.6"
LED, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

I am starting to look for a KILLER DEAL on a :

- 15.6 **business** laptop, Quad Core i5 (at most), 16GB DDR4,
256 SSD, 1TB...

which will inevitably come with Win 10... then I will Virtual
Machine UP with Linux Mint.

Open to any brilliant comments!

Thx much... ~ Alan

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Submitted by abrandt on 21. June 2016 - 0:19

(126970)

Thank you, eikelein and MidnightCowboy !

Truthfully, I have neither the time or inclination to
experiment with Linux.

My Linux interest does not stem from a hobby... but business
application... user-friendliness and efficiency... keeping in mind I
am tethered to Windows due to specialized applications needed for business.

Much appreciate. ~ Alan

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Submitted by eikelein on 20. June 2016 - 22:00

(126968)

Alan,
Even for your "oldie" laptop I recommend you at least look at
Linux Lite (https://www.linuxliteos.com/).
I have found it to be much more efficient with computer
resources than Linux Mint which for me slowed a computer (with much
more Ooomph than your laptop) down to a virtual crawl.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 20. June 2016 - 22:21

(126969)

There are many issues that determine how slow or fast a
particular Linux might run on different hardware. This is a good list
to experiment with although not all of these are particularly user
friendly. My vote goes to MX Linux. MC - Site Manager.
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-of-the-most-...

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:20

(126962)

There are several virtual machine programs around, you can
check out our article here:
Best Free Virtualization Solutions

I think Midnight Cowboy runs Windows 7 in a virtual machine
using Linux. Maybe he'll chime in with his preferences.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:27

(126963)

rhiannon: Appreciate the reference article. Have read and will
implement with new laptop. Thx. ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:39

(126964)

If you're inclined to using Virtual Box, you might find this
article helpful:
VirtualBox 5.0 Released – Install on RHEL/CentOS/Fedora and
Debian/Ubuntu/Linux Mint

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:46

(126965)

rhiannon: Appreciate and reviewed this 2nd vitualization
reference article. THX! ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 3:22

(126951)

Thank you to Stephen Jackson and Bob Peterson for their clean,
clear and intelligent comments.
Bob... based on your post... I am going take a more serious
look at Linux Mint... even though much of my Internet Marketing
software is all Win-concentric.
Thank you, ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 14:54

(126956)

You can run Windows "inside" Linux, as our very own Midnight
Cowboy does, as a virtual machine or virtual box. Another option is to
dual boot Windows and Linux.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:45

(126973)

I have never looked at running a virtual machine thought it
might be complicated,
I am running dual boot W7 and Mint 17.3.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 21. June 2016 - 13:53

(126975)

It'as a lot easier than you might think. There are tons of
tutorials on Youtube and the web in general, many for specific distros.
This is just one example.
https://www.pcsteps.com/207-windows-virtual-machine-linux-windows/.
The only real issue you might encounter is getting USB recognition for
the virtual system but this and anything else are bound to be
documented with an appropriate fix in one of the Linux forums. MC - Site Manager.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 19. June 2016 - 12:41

(126947)

I have W7 and 10 on partitions on a Compaq l/top to see what 10
was like have found it hard to adjust but have done a lot of retro
fitting with Winaero tweaker to make it feel more usable.

My daily is a Toshiba l/top partitioned with W7 and Linux Mint,
Really want to move over to Mint but I don't seem to find the time at
present as I am trying to keep up on the W10"s evolution.

I could kiss all the heart ache good bye If I could convince
myself to only log onto Mint but I really don't understand linux at
all and had zero success getting my scanner to function which I need
continuously and installing other items not knowing if they are
enabled or installed even at all.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 19. June 2016 - 13:30

(126950)

Just enter your scanner details into the Mint forum search and
someone has bound to have encountered the same issue before and
obtained a fix. I use a HP Deskjet for instance and it's just a matter
of installing the appropriate driver using Synaptic. MC - Site Manager.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:50

(126974)

I will do that I did try google with specific for the LiDE 110
but found nothing, tried Canon but they don't support Linux for it.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by lunchbeast on 18. June 2016 - 18:33

(126944)

Speaking of Luddites, how far back can we go with this 'make it
look like the old version that looked and worked better'? I have
always preferred the look and feel of Win2K/WinXP, and I was able to
get Win7 to look very similar. If Win10 can be made to look like Win7,
can Win10 be made to look like Win7 looking like Win2K/WinXP?

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 18. June 2016 - 20:39

(126945)

I haven't run across anything that mentions that. If anyone
else knows, maybe they'll comment. :)

a.. Log in or register to post comments
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Re: Talking Bathroom Scale

Gerald Levy
 

 
In fact, my Phoenix talking bathroom scale is covered by My Weigh’s 30-year warranty.  But returning it to them for a replacement isn’t worth the hassle.  Besides, I can’t find the sales receipt, which is required, and the merchant I purchased it from no longer has a record of the transaction on its site, so I’m out of luck.  It has been my experience that such generous warranties are of little practical value because they usually require jumping through a lot of hoops or spending almost as much for shipping and service charges as the cost of buying a new unit. Do you know anyone who saves a sales receipt or original packing carton for 30years?  
 
Gerald
 
 
 

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale
 
Geraldd,  I use the My Weigh talking kitchen scales, which come with a 30 year warranty.  Since I weigh out dry chemicals for my work, they frequently begin to ddecline from the airborn chemicals that play havoc with the button switches.  I'd almost bet you the bathroom scales carry a similar warranty, and you can get a replacement.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:26 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale
 
 
Happy Independence Day holiday, gang.  Sorry I caused such a furor over the article about the fatal self-driving car accident.  But let’s get back to practical technology.  This morning, when I stepped on my Phoenix by My Weigh talking scale for my monthly weigh-in, I discovered to my chagrin that it was totally dead.  I installed three different brand-new 9 volt alkaline batteries to try to revive it, but no luck.  So I’m in the market for a new talking bathroom scale other than this one, which only lasted three years with infrequent use.  Amazon.com has a nice selection of talking scales between $25 and $30, which is much cheaper than the blindness vendors charge for the same products.  I have narrowed my choices to either the American Weigh 330CVS or the Taylor Precision 7084 talking scales, both of which have received mostly positive reviews.  Does anyone own one of these two models, and if so, how accessible is it, and how loud and clear is the speech?  Are there any other models you guys would recommend?  Please provide specific brands and model numbers or names.  Thanks for your feedback. 
 
Gerald
 
 


Re: Talking Bathroom Scale

James Bentley
 

Hello Gerald,
 
I purchase two American Weigh 330CVS scales for Christmas gifts in December 2014.  Both stopped working in less than 8 months.  American weigh replaced both units and one stopped working in less than one month and the other scale got stuck away in a closet because the user did not like the distortion with the scales speech. 
 
I wish I could make a decent suggestion but I recommend that you stay away from American Weigh.
 
James
 
 
 

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:26 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale
 
 
Happy Independence Day holiday, gang.  Sorry I caused such a furor over the article about the fatal self-driving car accident.  But let’s get back to practical technology.  This morning, when I stepped on my Phoenix by My Weigh talking scale for my monthly weigh-in, I discovered to my chagrin that it was totally dead.  I installed three different brand-new 9 volt alkaline batteries to try to revive it, but no luck.  So I’m in the market for a new talking bathroom scale other than this one, which only lasted three years with infrequent use.  Amazon.com has a nice selection of talking scales between $25 and $30, which is much cheaper than the blindness vendors charge for the same products.  I have narrowed my choices to either the American Weigh 330CVS or the Taylor Precision 7084 talking scales, both of which have received mostly positive reviews.  Does anyone own one of these two models, and if so, how accessible is it, and how loud and clear is the speech?  Are there any other models you guys would recommend?  Please provide specific brands and model numbers or names.  Thanks for your feedback. 
 
Gerald
 
 


Re: Talking Bathroom Scale

Matt
 

Also check out speak to me catalog and blind mice mart and if you find one you like then you might want to check out amazon.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robin Frost
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 10:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale

 

Hi,

I’ve had good fortune with the talking scale by Moshi

 

#756907

that is its item number at independent living aids.

the only problem I continually encounter with talking bathroom scales is often the foot containing the censor that determines when to activate it can easily break if the unit is handled too roughly as happened to one of mine at the hands of a cleaning helper; but again this seems common t all brands I’ve tried of which there’ve been a few.

Over all this unit has a sturdy solid state feel to it and seems to be accurate.

I’ve no experience with the other two brands mentioned in terms of bathroom scales but like another poster mentioned I’ve used the my way kitchen scale and have found it to be satisfactory for its intended purpose as well.

 

I hope that helps.

Robin

 

 

Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2016 9:26 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale

 

 

Happy Independence Day holiday, gang.  Sorry I caused such a furor over the article about the fatal self-driving car accident.  But let’s get back to practical technology.  This morning, when I stepped on my Phoenix by My Weigh talking scale for my monthly weigh-in, I discovered to my chagrin that it was totally dead.  I installed three different brand-new 9 volt alkaline batteries to try to revive it, but no luck.  So I’m in the market for a new talking bathroom scale other than this one, which only lasted three years with infrequent use.  Amazon.com has a nice selection of talking scales between $25 and $30, which is much cheaper than the blindness vendors charge for the same products.  I have narrowed my choices to either the American Weigh 330CVS or the Taylor Precision 7084 talking scales, both of which have received mostly positive reviews.  Does anyone own one of these two models, and if so, how accessible is it, and how loud and clear is the speech?  Are there any other models you guys would recommend?  Please provide specific brands and model numbers or names.  Thanks for your feedback. 

 

Gerald

 

 


Re: Talking Bathroom Scale

Robin Frost
 

Hi,
I’ve had good fortune with the talking scale by Moshi
 
#756907
that is its item number at independent living aids.
the only problem I continually encounter with talking bathroom scales is often the foot containing the censor that determines when to activate it can easily break if the unit is handled too roughly as happened to one of mine at the hands of a cleaning helper; but again this seems common t all brands I’ve tried of which there’ve been a few.
Over all this unit has a sturdy solid state feel to it and seems to be accurate.
I’ve no experience with the other two brands mentioned in terms of bathroom scales but like another poster mentioned I’ve used the my way kitchen scale and have found it to be satisfactory for its intended purpose as well.
 
I hope that helps.
Robin
 
 

Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2016 9:26 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale
 
 
Happy Independence Day holiday, gang.  Sorry I caused such a furor over the article about the fatal self-driving car accident.  But let’s get back to practical technology.  This morning, when I stepped on my Phoenix by My Weigh talking scale for my monthly weigh-in, I discovered to my chagrin that it was totally dead.  I installed three different brand-new 9 volt alkaline batteries to try to revive it, but no luck.  So I’m in the market for a new talking bathroom scale other than this one, which only lasted three years with infrequent use.  Amazon.com has a nice selection of talking scales between $25 and $30, which is much cheaper than the blindness vendors charge for the same products.  I have narrowed my choices to either the American Weigh 330CVS or the Taylor Precision 7084 talking scales, both of which have received mostly positive reviews.  Does anyone own one of these two models, and if so, how accessible is it, and how loud and clear is the speech?  Are there any other models you guys would recommend?  Please provide specific brands and model numbers or names.  Thanks for your feedback. 
 
Gerald
 
 


Re: Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Lenron
 

There is a wide range of tech and I am happy that we discuss them all
here. I would love to go hunting at some point. I like to go fishing
so I am pretty sure this is something else I would enjoy.

On 7/2/16, Brent Harding <brent@hostany.net> wrote:
As high-tech as dad and I got with the deer hunting is that we got a 6-inch
letoff on the scope so that he can see through it just enough when I'm
holding the rifle to guide me where to aim and shoot. We haven't missed very
much, which seemed surprising with all the potential for a small tiny
movement to mess things up. For quite awhile, Wisconsin didn't have it legal
to use the laser, even for disabled hunters, so we have gone without it even
though you could use it now. I don't know that just any guide could replace
dad and be able to see through the scope with letoff like that while I hold
the gun. The biggest thing one could think to improve would be a way to not
make so much noise with the chairs when the shot we planned before we go out
there to have that deer coming flips the opposite way. Camera scopes could
probably make it easier for other guides that can't quite do what dad does,
like the kind they might use on those outdoor TV shows, but I'm not even
sure if they show the shot on those. .
----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology


I also totally agree. Carlos, please keep every thing just like it is.



From: Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:15 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Totally agree !





Matt.from.florida@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2016, at 1:44 PM, Carlos <carlos1106@nyc.rr.com> wrote:


I honestly can't understand why some people have such a narrow
definition of the word technology. The word technology is not a synonym for
computer. While I can understand that is usually the primary interest of
discussion on such lists, I figured there were enough lists which
exclusively discuss computer technology that trying to keep this list a bit
more flexible wouldn't be considered unreasonable.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Wohlgamuth
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Hi there Folks!

Wonder what this topic has to do with technology and accessibility? To
my knowledge they do not make a gun with any sort of blindness technology-or
do they..? I really do wish we could get this list back on topic and leave
the gun talk to the chat list. Personally I am 60 years old and have never
owned a gun-and probably never will. If I were to own a gun it would be
somethihng like a shotgun so that if I actually had to shoot at someone in
self defense, I might have a chance of hitting them. We really don't need a
bunch of Barney Fifes shooting themselves in the foot<SMILE!>. I
know there are folks out there who use guns responsibly and that is most of
them.


But I wonder just how many gun owners are blind or legally blind?
Anyone no any stats on that? Have A Good 1! de
<KF8LT><Jim Wohlgamuth>.

On 02-Jul-16 12:32, James Bentley wrote:

What's insane is that the general public can purchase a version of
this sniper rifle that hits a very small target at over half a mile.

Yikes, I think I will just stay in the house with the blinds
drrawn.



-----Original Message----- From: Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 11:17 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Wow! that is freakin insane!

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of
James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:07 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

The United States military has a computerized rifle and scope
combination.
It first takes a photo of the entire target area. Next, the shooter
uses a
cursor on a touch screen to tell the computer where to put the
bullet.
Next, the shooter aims at the target. The computer fires the rifle
only
when it sees that the rifle is aimed with pin point accuracy. 3
inch
Targets can be hit accurately at distances over two miles.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 10:56 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

Finally, a relevant informative post. Thank you for contributing to
my small
pool of knowledge. :)

And while on the subject matter, I'm thinking an audio beep of some
sort
might be able to alert the blind shooter than the object of interest
is
within the cross hairs of scope. Key will be determining what is
target
object and what is some sort of artifact.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of
Joe
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:47 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Gun Technique, Hunting and Technology

There is now what some are calling a smart rifle, out of Texas. At
$25,000,
it's beyond the reach of most enthusiasts, but it can fetch that
price for
the level of precision it can automatically adjust to help the
shooter
acquire a target. If technology has leaped that far, one can almost
wonder
what credit, if any, the shooter gets, but my question is this: What

technology have the hunters among us used to rely a little less on
sighted
assistance? I go deer hunting, but thus far I have leaned heavily on

discrete cues from sighted companions to know where and when to
fire. It's
not a bad method. I've brought down three bucks in this fashion, and
while
hunting can often be enjoyed with companions, it would be nice to
independently, but responsibly, engage and execute the target
myself. Right
now I use a laser to help my sighted companions get a better sense
of where
I am aiming. This allows me to hold and operate the rifle on my own,
but
again, it feels inefficient. Any tips would be welcomed.

I'll note that while I am a member of a local shooting range, I have

hesitated to obtain a gun permit. I understand my shooting would be
optimal
at very close range, but the risk of hitting someone innocent,
however
small, still weighs on my conscience.

I realize for some the discussion of guns and hunting could be
abhorrent. If
so, feel free to email me off list. For whatever it's worth, I eat
what I
kill. I've never gone hunting for the mere sport. I've learned how
to skin
my own kill, and I suppose one could argue the knife skill in doing
so could
itself be viewed as a form of technology skill.

Not to stray too far off topic here, but any number of disasters
could occur
in our lifetime and in our own backyard. In a scenario with no power
and
extensive food shortage, that Windows machine isn't going to be
worth a
whole lot except for maybe scrap metal. Our definition of
"technology" just
might revert to what technology used to be. That is, the means to
survive.

Best,

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe























--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: Talking Bathroom Scale

Mike Thomas
 


Geraldd,  I use the My Weigh talking kitchen scales, which come with a 30 year warranty.  Since I weigh out dry chemicals for my work, they frequently begin to ddecline from the airborn chemicals that play havoc with the button switches.  I'd almost bet you the bathroom scales carry a similar warranty, and you can get a replacement.
Mike

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:26 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] Talking Bathroom Scale

 
Happy Independence Day holiday, gang.  Sorry I caused such a furor over the article about the fatal self-driving car accident.  But let’s get back to practical technology.  This morning, when I stepped on my Phoenix by My Weigh talking scale for my monthly weigh-in, I discovered to my chagrin that it was totally dead.  I installed three different brand-new 9 volt alkaline batteries to try to revive it, but no luck.  So I’m in the market for a new talking bathroom scale other than this one, which only lasted three years with infrequent use.  Amazon.com has a nice selection of talking scales between $25 and $30, which is much cheaper than the blindness vendors charge for the same products.  I have narrowed my choices to either the American Weigh 330CVS or the Taylor Precision 7084 talking scales, both of which have received mostly positive reviews.  Does anyone own one of these two models, and if so, how accessible is it, and how loud and clear is the speech?  Are there any other models you guys would recommend?  Please provide specific brands and model numbers or names.  Thanks for your feedback. 
 
Gerald
 
 


Talking Bathroom Scale

Gerald Levy
 

 
Happy Independence Day holiday, gang.  Sorry I caused such a furor over the article about the fatal self-driving car accident.  But let’s get back to practical technology.  This morning, when I stepped on my Phoenix by My Weigh talking scale for my monthly weigh-in, I discovered to my chagrin that it was totally dead.  I installed three different brand-new 9 volt alkaline batteries to try to revive it, but no luck.  So I’m in the market for a new talking bathroom scale other than this one, which only lasted three years with infrequent use.  Amazon.com has a nice selection of talking scales between $25 and $30, which is much cheaper than the blindness vendors charge for the same products.  I have narrowed my choices to either the American Weigh 330CVS or the Taylor Precision 7084 talking scales, both of which have received mostly positive reviews.  Does anyone own one of these two models, and if so, how accessible is it, and how loud and clear is the speech?  Are there any other models you guys would recommend?  Please provide specific brands and model numbers or names.  Thanks for your feedback. 
 
Gerald
 
 


Re: drop box

Jeremy <jeremy.richards7@...>
 

In Dropbox, the public folder is of no need nowadays. If one wanted it back,
there is information on the Dropbox website as to how to restore this
functionality in the newest versions of Dropbox. Again, not necessary to go
through the trouble as the context menu provides this same functionality.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Matt
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 5:43 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] drop box

So if you are a new user of drop box and you get the free version of drop
box then you will not have a public folder which I assume is just a folder
anyhow. Unless it has some kind of restriction on it. and if you buy it as
a new user you don't have the public folder any more or do you? The only
thing I know I still have a public folder. Both on my iPhone and desktop.





Matt.from.florida@gmail.com <mailto:Matt.from.florida@gmail.com>



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] dropbox



I don't follow

Drop Box carefully but the last I knew, and I haven't seen any change in my
Drop Box, the version of the software is irrelevant. Whether you have
public links depends on when your free account was set up. Accounts set up
before a certain date had and still have public links. Accounts that are
free that were set up after a certain date don't have public links. You can
share links but actual public links are not provided. I still have access
to all my public links.



Gene



From: Ann Parsons <mailto:akp@samobile.net>

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 6:25 AM

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] dropbox



Hi all,

The Public folder has been dropped by The Box for a couple of versions now.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@samobile.net
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Matt
 

Ok, then they can do it for free! So sounds even better for them!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:43 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

From the GPLv2 license text:

 

[begin quote]

When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.

[end quote]

 

And the source code can be downloaded by anyone.  That is after all the point of open source.

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:32 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

Well if they can get it free then why buy it! but I don’t think the license will let someone create their own version for commercial use. I think they would have to pay somehow. Weather it was donation or just right out buying it from whoever started the NVDA thing  which I would think he would have the original and all the source code. I don’t know and really don’t expect them to do this any how ! it was just a thought! But money talks and sure you can buy open source software if you wanted to you just have to find the owner of the source  which I would think would be whoever started the project. Never seen anything that was not for sell in the business world for the right money! I think really if they went this way they might go more toward WE then NVDA myself. As since jaws and magic and zoomtex and WE are all under the same company now I can see this company weeding things out and why not We as MS has already got a deal with them with WE and office. But who knows no one on this list for sure what any company is going to do unless they are part of the team that make them decision. Which I don’t think anyone is in the case of MS or the People that ownAiSquare and FS , and then ever who is the person holding the source code to NVDA . They are the only ones who really knows what their thoughts is!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 7:50 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

That is not usually how open source works.  Joseph probably knows more about this subject, but NVDA is currently covered buy the GPLv2

license.  I believe this means that Microsoft could choose to create their own fork of NVDA and make whatever changes they like without having to buy it from the developers, but any code they released for NVDA would also have to be made available as open source and covered by the GPLv2 license.

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 6:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

They would buy it from the developers of NVDA the same one that takes donation for NVDA! Just because it is open source does not mean it don’t have an owner! But I just throwing things out there I don’t expect MS to buy no screen reader at all. I think they are going to continue with Narrator ! They have too much time invested in it at this point! But who knows never know!

 

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:35 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

As NVDA is open source, who would they buy it from? MS taking over NVDA doesn’t appear to be a good idea. Look at what’s happened to Skype since MS took that over? It’s become inefficient, and you’ve got to wait sometimes for an auto-update to complete, which takes a few minutes, before you can make that all-important scheduled call!  Also, Skype has suffered some outages in recent times, something that never happened in the ‘good old days’.

 

From: Matt

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well like I say MS might have other plans for it it is nice to have a fully integrated screen reader in the OS. Now maybe they will buy NVDA and dump Narrator! That is buy NVDA and keep the NVDA team as well!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and somewhat excessive in my opinion.  How many people really use Narrator on a daily basis?  The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an emergency or to finish setting up Windows.  It is useful and convenient to have, but for most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a primary screen reader.  These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen readers will most likely use NVDA.  And Narrator has a long way to go before it can compete with NVDA.  That being the case, I believe their time and effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other areas.  If NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might seem more significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems like wasted effort.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.  I will not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in Windows 10.  My thoughts on the blog entry are below. 


Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog?  Being passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having significant accessibility problems.  Being passionate about accessibility means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release. 

 

And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback.  It isn't incredible.  It's useful and good feedback but incredible?  You aren't accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide feedback but patronizing them.  We don't want to be called incredible nor our feedback.  We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate.  And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to know about it?  Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute.  If your accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 


> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/ <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/>
>
> Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update
>
> With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world, Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update becomes available. We also recognize that we must continue to invest in accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want to wait to upgrade, don’t forget that you will still have the opportunity to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends. We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take advantage of the free upgrade offer.
>
> We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps and experiences.
>
> Improved Screen Reading with Narrator
>
> As we’ve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes include:
>
> Faster text to speech voices
>
> We’ve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800 words per minute.
>
> New languages in Narrator
>
> We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be available either with the corresponding international version of Windows or will be available for download.
>
> Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil)
> Arabic (Egypt) Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark)
> Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway) Dutch (Belgium)
> Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish (Sweden)
> Turkish (Turkey)
> More familiar keyboard navigation
>
> Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure better ergonomics, making them easier to type.
>
> Introducing scan mode
>
> We’ve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.
>
> Six levels of verbosity
>
> Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get varying indications of other text properties, like text color or formatting.
>
> Punctuation Modes
>
> Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include none, some, most, all and math along with default.
>
> Now announcing AutoSuggest results
>
> Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio indication when these suggestions are available.
>
> Feedback made easy
>
> Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.
>
> User guides and documentation
>
> Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the Anniversary Update is released.
>
> Working to make apps and experiences more accessible
>
> Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our app teams have also been making regular updates. Below are a few of the notable highlights.
>
> More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge
>
> In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the introduction of Microsoft Edge’s new accessibility architecture, we are working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the transition to this new platform.
>
> In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.
>
> Mail
>
> Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup experience when using a screen reader.
>
> Cortana
>
> You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard, including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.
>
> Groove
>
> The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support, including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.
>
> Making accessibility easier for developers
>
> In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible experiences within their apps and websites. Here are a few developer resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows 10 anniversary Update.
>
> New Tools
>
> Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work. The Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find, triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that don’t have an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator. Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.
>
> XAML Improvements
>
> The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal Windows Apps (UWA’s) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in order to activate the purchase button.
>
> Improved Documentation
>
> And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and sample code for accessibility.
>
> Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to you. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK + E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building them.
>
> Previous Blogs and Resources:
>
> Windows
>
> Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/further-details-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more accessible: Our path forward <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making-windows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/>
> Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/accessibility-update-for-windows-10-mail/>
> Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free Upgrade <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/accessibility-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/>
> Microsoft Edge
>
> Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-edge-blog-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/>
> Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-edge-blog-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/>
> Building a More Accessible Web Platform <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/building-a-more-accessible-web-platform/>
> Developers
>
> Accessibility Design guidelines <https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibility-overview>
> Accessibility Developer Hub <https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps>


Re: drop box

Matt
 

So if you are a new user of drop box and you get the free version of drop box then you will not have a public folder which I assume is just a folder anyhow.  Unless it has some kind of restriction on it. and if you buy it as a new user you don’t have the public folder any more or do you? The only thing I know I still have a public folder. Both on my iPhone and desktop.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:18 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] dropbox

 

I don't follow

Drop Box carefully but the last I knew, and I haven't seen any change in my Drop Box, the version of the software is irrelevant.  Whether you have public links depends on when your free account was set up.  Accounts set up before a certain date had and still have public links.  Accounts that are free that were set up after a certain date don't have public links.  You can share links but actual public links are not provided.  I still have access to all my public links. 

 

Gene

 

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 6:25 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] dropbox

 

Hi all,

The Public folder has been dropped by The Box for a couple of versions now.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Carlos
 


From the GPLv2 license text:
 
[begin quote]
When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.
[end quote]
 
And the source code can be downloaded by anyone.  That is after all the point of open source.

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well if they can get it free then why buy it! but I don’t think the license will let someone create their own version for commercial use. I think they would have to pay somehow. Weather it was donation or just right out buying it from whoever started the NVDA thing  which I would think he would have the original and all the source code. I don’t know and really don’t expect them to do this any how ! it was just a thought! But money talks and sure you can buy open source software if you wanted to you just have to find the owner of the source  which I would think would be whoever started the project. Never seen anything that was not for sell in the business world for the right money! I think really if they went this way they might go more toward WE then NVDA myself. As since jaws and magic and zoomtex and WE are all under the same company now I can see this company weeding things out and why not We as MS has already got a deal with them with WE and office. But who knows no one on this list for sure what any company is going to do unless they are part of the team that make them decision. Which I don’t think anyone is in the case of MS or the People that ownAiSquare and FS , and then ever who is the person holding the source code to NVDA . They are the only ones who really knows what their thoughts is!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 7:50 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

That is not usually how open source works.  Joseph probably knows more about this subject, but NVDA is currently covered buy the GPLv2

license.  I believe this means that Microsoft could choose to create their own fork of NVDA and make whatever changes they like without having to buy it from the developers, but any code they released for NVDA would also have to be made available as open source and covered by the GPLv2 license.

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 6:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

They would buy it from the developers of NVDA the same one that takes donation for NVDA! Just because it is open source does not mean it don’t have an owner! But I just throwing things out there I don’t expect MS to buy no screen reader at all. I think they are going to continue with Narrator ! They have too much time invested in it at this point! But who knows never know!

 

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:35 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

As NVDA is open source, who would they buy it from? MS taking over NVDA doesn’t appear to be a good idea. Look at what’s happened to Skype since MS took that over? It’s become inefficient, and you’ve got to wait sometimes for an auto-update to complete, which takes a few minutes, before you can make that all-important scheduled call!  Also, Skype has suffered some outages in recent times, something that never happened in the ‘good old days’.

 

From: Matt

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well like I say MS might have other plans for it it is nice to have a fully integrated screen reader in the OS. Now maybe they will buy NVDA and dump Narrator! That is buy NVDA and keep the NVDA team as well!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and somewhat excessive in my opinion.  How many people really use Narrator on a daily basis?  The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an emergency or to finish setting up Windows.  It is useful and convenient to have, but for most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a primary screen reader.  These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen readers will most likely use NVDA.  And Narrator has a long way to go before it can compete with NVDA.  That being the case, I believe their time and effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other areas.  If NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might seem more significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems like wasted effort.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.  I will not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in Windows 10.  My thoughts on the blog entry are below. 


Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog?  Being passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having significant accessibility problems.  Being passionate about accessibility means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release. 

 

And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback.  It isn't incredible.  It's useful and good feedback but incredible?  You aren't accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide feedback but patronizing them.  We don't want to be called incredible nor our feedback.  We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate.  And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to know about it?  Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute.  If your accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 


> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/ <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/>
>
> Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update
>
> With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world, Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update becomes available. We also recognize that we must continue to invest in accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want to wait to upgrade, don’t forget that you will still have the opportunity to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends. We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take advantage of the free upgrade offer.
>
> We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps and experiences.
>
> Improved Screen Reading with Narrator
>
> As we’ve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes include:
>
> Faster text to speech voices
>
> We’ve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800 words per minute.
>
> New languages in Narrator
>
> We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be available either with the corresponding international version of Windows or will be available for download.
>
> Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil)
> Arabic (Egypt) Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark)
> Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway) Dutch (Belgium)
> Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish (Sweden)
> Turkish (Turkey)
> More familiar keyboard navigation
>
> Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure better ergonomics, making them easier to type.
>
> Introducing scan mode
>
> We’ve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.
>
> Six levels of verbosity
>
> Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get varying indications of other text properties, like text color or formatting.
>
> Punctuation Modes
>
> Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include none, some, most, all and math along with default.
>
> Now announcing AutoSuggest results
>
> Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio indication when these suggestions are available.
>
> Feedback made easy
>
> Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.
>
> User guides and documentation
>
> Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the Anniversary Update is released.
>
> Working to make apps and experiences more accessible
>
> Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our app teams have also been making regular updates. Below are a few of the notable highlights.
>
> More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge
>
> In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the introduction of Microsoft Edge’s new accessibility architecture, we are working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the transition to this new platform.
>
> In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.
>
> Mail
>
> Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup experience when using a screen reader.
>
> Cortana
>
> You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard, including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.
>
> Groove
>
> The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support, including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.
>
> Making accessibility easier for developers
>
> In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible experiences within their apps and websites. Here are a few developer resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows 10 anniversary Update.
>
> New Tools
>
> Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work. The Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find, triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that don’t have an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator. Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.
>
> XAML Improvements
>
> The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal Windows Apps (UWA’s) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in order to activate the purchase button.
>
> Improved Documentation
>
> And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and sample code for accessibility.
>
> Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to you. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK + E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building them.
>
> Previous Blogs and Resources:
>
> Windows
>
> Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/further-details-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more accessible: Our path forward <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making-windows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/>
> Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/accessibility-update-for-windows-10-mail/>
> Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free Upgrade <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/accessibility-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/>
> Microsoft Edge
>
> Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-edge-blog-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/>
> Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-edge-blog-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/>
> Building a More Accessible Web Platform <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/building-a-more-accessible-web-platform/>
> Developers
>
> Accessibility Design guidelines <https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibility-overview>
> Accessibility Developer Hub <https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps>


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Matt
 

I sure any thing has it price in the business world. I have never seen anything that for the right price in the business world could not be bought! But this being said I don’t think so either that they would buy NVDA if anything they might lean toward WE. But I don’t think they like you say and they have always said that this is not something they are looking at doing but they have said that about other things and turn around and did just the opsit of what they said! So who knows it is an interesting discussion but I don’t think anyone on this list knows MS thoughts on what they really are thinking. It is all just speculation.

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 8:00 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

I doubt that it can be bought.  It is probably registered legally as a nonprofit enterprise.  I don't see how there can be an owner.  It is open source.  Open source software doesn't have an owner.  NVDA receives a lot of donations from users and a lot of grants.  If it were sold, how would it be determined how much grant money and personal donations would be returned? 

 

the idea that Microsoft would even want to purchase NVDA is antethetical to what Microsoft has consistently said for years.  It doesn't want to be in the business of developingh full screen-readers.  They believe, rightly, that those with experience and knowledge in this area should do so.  For years, Microsoft was criticized as being a monopoly.  Are peoples' memories really that short?  Why would anyone want Microsoft to be in a position to become a monopoly holder of a full screen-reader?  And there is no indication that Microsoft wants to. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 5:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

They would buy it from the developers of NVDA the same one that takes donation for NVDA! Just because it is open source does not mean it don’t have an owner! But I just throwing things out there I don’t expect MS to buy no screen reader at all. I think they are going to continue with Narrator ! They have too much time invested in it at this point! But who knows never know!

 

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:35 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

As NVDA is open source, who would they buy it from? MS taking over NVDA doesn’t appear to be a good idea. Look at what’s happened to Skype since MS took that over? It’s become inefficient, and you’ve got to wait sometimes for an auto-update to complete, which takes a few minutes, before you can make that all-important scheduled call!  Also, Skype has suffered some outages in recent times, something that never happened in the ‘good old days’.

 

From: Matt

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well like I say MS might have other plans for it it is nice to have a fully integrated screen reader in the OS. Now maybe they will buy NVDA and dump Narrator! That is buy NVDA and keep the NVDA team as well!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and somewhat excessive in my opinion.  How many people really use Narrator on a daily basis?  The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an emergency or to finish setting up Windows.  It is useful and convenient to have, but for most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a primary screen reader.  These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen readers will most likely use NVDA.  And Narrator has a long way to go before it can compete with NVDA.  That being the case, I believe their time and effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other areas.  If NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might seem more significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems like wasted effort.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.  I will not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in Windows 10.  My thoughts on the blog entry are below. 


Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog?  Being passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having significant accessibility problems.  Being passionate about accessibility means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release. 

 

And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback.  It isn't incredible.  It's useful and good feedback but incredible?  You aren't accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide feedback but patronizing them.  We don't want to be called incredible nor our feedback.  We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate.  And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to know about it?  Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute.  If your accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 


> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/ <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/>
>
> Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update
>
> With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world, Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update becomes available. We also recognize that we must continue to invest in accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want to wait to upgrade, don’t forget that you will still have the opportunity to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends. We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take advantage of the free upgrade offer.
>
> We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps and experiences.
>
> Improved Screen Reading with Narrator
>
> As we’ve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes include:
>
> Faster text to speech voices
>
> We’ve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800 words per minute.
>
> New languages in Narrator
>
> We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be available either with the corresponding international version of Windows or will be available for download.
>
> Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil)
> Arabic (Egypt) Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark)
> Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway) Dutch (Belgium)
> Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish (Sweden)
> Turkish (Turkey)
> More familiar keyboard navigation
>
> Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure better ergonomics, making them easier to type.
>
> Introducing scan mode
>
> We’ve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.
>
> Six levels of verbosity
>
> Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get varying indications of other text properties, like text color or formatting.
>
> Punctuation Modes
>
> Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include none, some, most, all and math along with default.
>
> Now announcing AutoSuggest results
>
> Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio indication when these suggestions are available.
>
> Feedback made easy
>
> Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.
>
> User guides and documentation
>
> Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the Anniversary Update is released.
>
> Working to make apps and experiences more accessible
>
> Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our app teams have also been making regular updates. Below are a few of the notable highlights.
>
> More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge
>
> In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the introduction of Microsoft Edge’s new accessibility architecture, we are working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the transition to this new platform.
>
> In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.
>
> Mail
>
> Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup experience when using a screen reader.
>
> Cortana
>
> You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard, including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.
>
> Groove
>
> The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support, including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.
>
> Making accessibility easier for developers
>
> In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible experiences within their apps and websites. Here are a few developer resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows 10 anniversary Update.
>
> New Tools
>
> Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work. The Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find, triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that don’t have an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator. Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.
>
> XAML Improvements
>
> The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal Windows Apps (UWA’s) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in order to activate the purchase button.
>
> Improved Documentation
>
> And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and sample code for accessibility.
>
> Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to you. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK + E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building them.
>
> Previous Blogs and Resources:
>
> Windows
>
> Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/further-details-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more accessible: Our path forward <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making-windows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/>
> Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/accessibility-update-for-windows-10-mail/>
> Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free Upgrade <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/accessibility-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/>
> Microsoft Edge
>
> Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-edge-blog-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/>
> Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-edge-blog-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/>
> Building a More Accessible Web Platform <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/building-a-more-accessible-web-platform/>
> Developers
>
> Accessibility Design guidelines <https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibility-overview>
> Accessibility Developer Hub <https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps>


Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Matt
 

Well if they can get it free then why buy it! but I don’t think the license will let someone create their own version for commercial use. I think they would have to pay somehow. Weather it was donation or just right out buying it from whoever started the NVDA thing  which I would think he would have the original and all the source code. I don’t know and really don’t expect them to do this any how ! it was just a thought! But money talks and sure you can buy open source software if you wanted to you just have to find the owner of the source  which I would think would be whoever started the project. Never seen anything that was not for sell in the business world for the right money! I think really if they went this way they might go more toward WE then NVDA myself. As since jaws and magic and zoomtex and WE are all under the same company now I can see this company weeding things out and why not We as MS has already got a deal with them with WE and office. But who knows no one on this list for sure what any company is going to do unless they are part of the team that make them decision. Which I don’t think anyone is in the case of MS or the People that ownAiSquare and FS , and then ever who is the person holding the source code to NVDA . They are the only ones who really knows what their thoughts is!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 7:50 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

That is not usually how open source works.  Joseph probably knows more about this subject, but NVDA is currently covered buy the GPLv2

license.  I believe this means that Microsoft could choose to create their own fork of NVDA and make whatever changes they like without having to buy it from the developers, but any code they released for NVDA would also have to be made available as open source and covered by the GPLv2 license.

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 6:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

They would buy it from the developers of NVDA the same one that takes donation for NVDA! Just because it is open source does not mean it don’t have an owner! But I just throwing things out there I don’t expect MS to buy no screen reader at all. I think they are going to continue with Narrator ! They have too much time invested in it at this point! But who knows never know!

 

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:35 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

As NVDA is open source, who would they buy it from? MS taking over NVDA doesn’t appear to be a good idea. Look at what’s happened to Skype since MS took that over? It’s become inefficient, and you’ve got to wait sometimes for an auto-update to complete, which takes a few minutes, before you can make that all-important scheduled call!  Also, Skype has suffered some outages in recent times, something that never happened in the ‘good old days’.

 

From: Matt

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well like I say MS might have other plans for it it is nice to have a fully integrated screen reader in the OS. Now maybe they will buy NVDA and dump Narrator! That is buy NVDA and keep the NVDA team as well!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and somewhat excessive in my opinion.  How many people really use Narrator on a daily basis?  The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an emergency or to finish setting up Windows.  It is useful and convenient to have, but for most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a primary screen reader.  These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen readers will most likely use NVDA.  And Narrator has a long way to go before it can compete with NVDA.  That being the case, I believe their time and effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other areas.  If NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might seem more significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems like wasted effort.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.  I will not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in Windows 10.  My thoughts on the blog entry are below. 


Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog?  Being passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having significant accessibility problems.  Being passionate about accessibility means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release. 

 

And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback.  It isn't incredible.  It's useful and good feedback but incredible?  You aren't accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide feedback but patronizing them.  We don't want to be called incredible nor our feedback.  We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate.  And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to know about it?  Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute.  If your accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 


> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/ <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/>
>
> Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update
>
> With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world, Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update becomes available. We also recognize that we must continue to invest in accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want to wait to upgrade, don’t forget that you will still have the opportunity to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends. We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take advantage of the free upgrade offer.
>
> We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps and experiences.
>
> Improved Screen Reading with Narrator
>
> As we’ve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes include:
>
> Faster text to speech voices
>
> We’ve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800 words per minute.
>
> New languages in Narrator
>
> We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be available either with the corresponding international version of Windows or will be available for download.
>
> Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil)
> Arabic (Egypt) Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark)
> Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway) Dutch (Belgium)
> Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish (Sweden)
> Turkish (Turkey)
> More familiar keyboard navigation
>
> Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure better ergonomics, making them easier to type.
>
> Introducing scan mode
>
> We’ve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.
>
> Six levels of verbosity
>
> Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get varying indications of other text properties, like text color or formatting.
>
> Punctuation Modes
>
> Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include none, some, most, all and math along with default.
>
> Now announcing AutoSuggest results
>
> Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio indication when these suggestions are available.
>
> Feedback made easy
>
> Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.
>
> User guides and documentation
>
> Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the Anniversary Update is released.
>
> Working to make apps and experiences more accessible
>
> Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our app teams have also been making regular updates. Below are a few of the notable highlights.
>
> More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge
>
> In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the introduction of Microsoft Edge’s new accessibility architecture, we are working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the transition to this new platform.
>
> In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.
>
> Mail
>
> Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup experience when using a screen reader.
>
> Cortana
>
> You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard, including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.
>
> Groove
>
> The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support, including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.
>
> Making accessibility easier for developers
>
> In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible experiences within their apps and websites. Here are a few developer resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows 10 anniversary Update.
>
> New Tools
>
> Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work. The Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find, triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that don’t have an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator. Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.
>
> XAML Improvements
>
> The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal Windows Apps (UWA’s) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in order to activate the purchase button.
>
> Improved Documentation
>
> And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and sample code for accessibility.
>
> Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to you. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK + E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building them.
>
> Previous Blogs and Resources:
>
> Windows
>
> Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/further-details-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more accessible: Our path forward <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making-windows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/>
> Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/accessibility-update-for-windows-10-mail/>
> Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free Upgrade <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/accessibility-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/>
> Microsoft Edge
>
> Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-edge-blog-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/>
> Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-edge-blog-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/>
> Building a More Accessible Web Platform <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/building-a-more-accessible-web-platform/>
> Developers
>
> Accessibility Design guidelines <https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibility-overview>
> Accessibility Developer Hub <https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps>


Re: dropbox

Gene
 

I don't follow
Drop Box carefully but the last I knew, and I haven't seen any change in my Drop Box, the version of the software is irrelevant.  Whether you have public links depends on when your free account was set up.  Accounts set up before a certain date had and still have public links.  Accounts that are free that were set up after a certain date don't have public links.  You can share links but actual public links are not provided.  I still have access to all my public links. 
 
Gene

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] dropbox

Hi all,

The Public folder has been dropped by The Box for a couple of versions now.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



Re: How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7 #article

Carlos
 

I have seen another utility which supposedly made changes to
UIRibbon.dll
to restore menu bars, but I did not know you could accomplish the same by
simply renaming it. Perhaps that is all the utility I have seen does, but
this was some time ago.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7


Hi Carlos,


What about the below method which I receives a while back from whom I
don't remember.


I did a google search on this and found an article on how to do it. You
have to download a registry key called "take ownership". After you
install the key you go to windows system32 and look for a file called:
UIRibbon.dll. You then right-click it with the applications key and
choose the context menu "take ownership". Then you right-click it again
and choose rename. Just change it to UIRibbon-bak.dll and reboot the pc.
At that point the old windows 7 style menu bar will be back on all
windows explorer windows.


Of course this will not affect programs that use ribbons separate from
Windows Explorer, but even the restoration of standard menus in Windows
Explorer would be a great thing in my opinion.



On 7/3/2016 6:38 AM, Carlos wrote:
Although the utility discussed in this article,
http://windows.wonderhowto.com/how-to/get-back-classic-look-feel-explorer-windows-10-0163557/
claims to be able to convert ribbons back to menus in Explorer. However,
this will not affect all programs which use ribbons and I have no idea if
it is accessible. I have also seen a few ad-ons which can supposedly do
this for Office as well, but in that case the menu always seems to be
presented as an additional tab so they don't actually replace the ribbons.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7


No, I doubt that anything short of software as intrusive as a screen
reader can do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kimsan
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7


This classic shell of which you speak of does it take the ribbons out
from windows explorer or whatever it’s called in windows 10?

I normally can get along with the ribbons but good lord it’s
confusing in the aforementioned location…



From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 2:18 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7



In my case Classic Shell

http://www.classicshell.net/

took care of about 95% of anything that I missed from previous
versions of Windows.

----- Original Message -----

From: Joe

To: main@TechTalk.groups.io

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like
Windows 7



I hope the article below helps someone?--Joe



How To Make Windows 10 Look and Feel Like Windows 7
toggle-button

Submitted by rhiannon | Last update on 16th June, 2016 - 9:44pm





If you want to use Windows 10 and it's new features (or have to use
Windows 10 for various reasons) but would be happier with the Windows 7
interface, then this article is a must read.
The article outlines 15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like
Windows 7, getting you as close to the familiar Windows 7 interface as
possible. Windows 10 has made some improvements over Windows 8 (bringing
back the Start menu for one) but it's still quite a difference to anyone
using Windows 7. With Windows 8, installing a Start Menu Replacement made
Windows 8 look and act like Windows 7 for the most part. In Windows 10,
it's not quite as easy.
Here's a list of the various changes that make Windows 10 more like
Windows 7:

a.. Windows 7 like Start Menu
b.. Aero Glass Transparency
c.. Disable the Lock Screen
d.. Remove Cortana search box from the taskbar
e.. Disable Windows Explorer ribbon
f.. Disable Quick Access
g.. Disable Action Center
h.. Install desktop gadgets
i.. Get Windows 7 like folders
j.. Uninstall and remove Edge browser
k.. Get rid of default modern apps
l.. Use a local account to sign in
m.. Enable the classic Personalization window
n.. Set Windows 7 wallpaper as your desktop background
Here are two additional helpful Windows 10 articles - one on
blocking Windows 10 updates (I'm not in favor of forced updates), and this
article has options for Home versions of Windows 10. Windows Pro and up
have some options for blocking Windows Updates that the Home version
doesn't. The other one addresses six of the most common Windows 10
annoyances and how to fix them.
Block Windows 10 forced updates without breaking your machine
Six Windows 10 annoyances: How to make them go away for good

You may have noticed that there are 14 (instead of 15) items
listed. I left off the "Install Windows 7 games" because the link goes to
a forum where you have to register to see the information. You can find a
direct link to the download listed in our article here: Get Classic
Windows 7 Games in Windows 8 and 10 for Free.

15 ways to make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7

You can find more Tech Treats here.



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Comments
Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 0:44

(126982)

My only concern is that after all these tweaks, will any of them
break or don't work after another update of Windows 10?

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 1:16

(126983)

Jojo,
The more you "tweak" the higher the chance of the tweak being
"broken" by an update; that update does nothing but "reset" the tweak to a
known good default like MIcro$oft wants it.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by Jojo Yee on 22. June 2016 - 1:48

(126984)

Yes eikelein I think it's true that chances are higher for broken
parts when we have more tweaks.

The problem is that we do not know if some tweaks are interlinked
in the system settings contained in the registry or hidden files and how
they work together.

Micro$oft might update some of them, leaving some remaining tweaked
parts untouched since they were considered or supposed to be original
without needing an update. It would be perfect if the tweaked parts and
the updated parts can work together :) but a nightmare if not :(

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by eikelein on 22. June 2016 - 2:31

(126987)

Jojo,
You are correct again.

And exactly that is why I don't like to tweak at all.

I use Classic Shell; there is at least a chance that things will
eventually get fixed should an update "break" it.
Worst case I just uninstall Classic Shell and live with W10 as it
is meant to be.

If I really hate it I can still switch to Linux and/or run Linux in
Virtual Box... ;-)

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:40

(126995)

eikelein, how different is Classic Shell from Winaero on how it
instigates changes and in your opinion do you think Winaero would have
problems with updates?

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by eikelein on 23. June 2016 - 1:30

(127001)

Ron525,
I guess it's about time to wish you a Happy B-Day.

To answer your question: I have no clue. Quite some time ago I
found Classic Shell's description, I believe on Sourceforge.
I liked what I read and tried it; have never looked back and just
don't have enough time and energy to make any kind of comparison. Sorry.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 23. June 2016 - 7:07

(127005)

eikelein,
Thanks.

I found Winaero being mentioned a bit on W10, W7 threads on
Whirlpool Forum AU, recommended for some tweaks, It has been around for a
few years and members have used it for a fair amount of time with no
issues being raised.

I don't have it installed on my daily l/top at present so will run
it on 2nd l/top to see if it has problems, nothing untoward happened after
latest W10 update last night.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 22. June 2016 - 4:48

(126989)

There is another issue related to this in that many folks still
insist on using so called registry cleaners for reasons beyond my
comprehension. These things are coded to see a system in a certain state
and chuck out anything that doesn't match. In so doing they are quite
capable of trashing Windows and often do. A tweaked system is even more
likely to be "corrected" to produce a nice blank screen at next boot . :)
MC - Site Manager.

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Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 14:01

(126976)

It appears to me as computers were evolving it was a race for the
best bling i.e. good colour outstanding icon graphics.

So what happened now we have to put up with faint characters that
are hard to see and often small pale colours and flat grade school quality
graphics.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by Jojo Yee on 21. June 2016 - 23:49

(126980)

True, ron525, but it appears to me that technology is one thing,
trend or fashion is another.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 22. June 2016 - 14:31

(126994)

How true Jojo Yee, I see that issue on my Xiaomi phone adding a lot
of fancy mods(many could be called bloat) far out weighs true
enhancements, simplifications and fixing bugs.

But I think some of the W10 changes create more actions to get to
things as well, or I still have to adjust to a different OS.
Maybe change is not liked but when one is used to a product and it
it works so easily and smooth you start to question why it has been
altered.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by These Old Eyes on 20. June 2016 - 20:21

(126966)

Will someone at MS please notice that the population is aging, in
many cases (like mine) with diminishing ability for eyes to adjust to
radically different light levels? I'd like to see a third party develop an
appropriately intrusive "app" (shudder) to restore user control over
background colors in Window 10, preferably within the next month!

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 20:41

(126967)

This is all I could come up, hopefully things will improve.
http://www.groovypost.com/howto/using-Windows-10-improved-color-personal...

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 15:39

(126959)

Howdy, rhiannon:

Appreciate your response.

I personally am fed up with Microsoft's ANTICS... however I am
dependent on Win 7 now due to software Internet Marketing software that
runs on Windows only.

I have been watching Linux for years... but now able to bring
myself across the threshold for business purposes... so I have to plead
IGNORANCE on my part in regards to the Linux world.

Sounds to me like virtual machine or virtual box would be the way
to go vs. dual boot option.

My current laptop is a:

Gateway EC5801u laptop

- Intel Core 2 Duo SU7300 1.2GHz, 4GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, 15.6"
LED, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

I am starting to look for a KILLER DEAL on a :

- 15.6 **business** laptop, Quad Core i5 (at most), 16GB DDR4, 256
SSD, 1TB...

which will inevitably come with Win 10... then I will Virtual
Machine UP with Linux Mint.

Open to any brilliant comments!

Thx much... ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 21. June 2016 - 0:19

(126970)

Thank you, eikelein and MidnightCowboy !

Truthfully, I have neither the time or inclination to experiment
with Linux.

My Linux interest does not stem from a hobby... but business
application... user-friendliness and efficiency... keeping in mind I am
tethered to Windows due to specialized applications needed for business.

Much appreciate. ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by eikelein on 20. June 2016 - 22:00

(126968)

Alan,
Even for your "oldie" laptop I recommend you at least look at Linux
Lite (https://www.linuxliteos.com/).
I have found it to be much more efficient with computer resources
than Linux Mint which for me slowed a computer (with much more Ooomph than
your laptop) down to a virtual crawl.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 20. June 2016 - 22:21

(126969)

There are many issues that determine how slow or fast a particular
Linux might run on different hardware. This is a good list to experiment
with although not all of these are particularly user friendly. My vote
goes to MX Linux. MC - Site Manager.
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-of-the-most-...

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:20

(126962)

There are several virtual machine programs around, you can check
out our article here:
Best Free Virtualization Solutions

I think Midnight Cowboy runs Windows 7 in a virtual machine using
Linux. Maybe he'll chime in with his preferences.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:27

(126963)

rhiannon: Appreciate the reference article. Have read and will
implement with new laptop. Thx. ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 16:39

(126964)

If you're inclined to using Virtual Box, you might find this
article helpful:
VirtualBox 5.0 Released – Install on RHEL/CentOS/Fedora and
Debian/Ubuntu/Linux Mint

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 16:46

(126965)

rhiannon: Appreciate and reviewed this 2nd vitualization reference
article. THX! ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by abrandt on 20. June 2016 - 3:22

(126951)

Thank you to Stephen Jackson and Bob Peterson for their clean,
clear and intelligent comments.
Bob... based on your post... I am going take a more serious look at
Linux Mint... even though much of my Internet Marketing software is all
Win-concentric.
Thank you, ~ Alan

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 20. June 2016 - 14:54

(126956)

You can run Windows "inside" Linux, as our very own Midnight Cowboy
does, as a virtual machine or virtual box. Another option is to dual boot
Windows and Linux.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:45

(126973)

I have never looked at running a virtual machine thought it might
be complicated,
I am running dual boot W7 and Mint 17.3.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 21. June 2016 - 13:53

(126975)

It'as a lot easier than you might think. There are tons of
tutorials on Youtube and the web in general, many for specific distros.
This is just one example.
https://www.pcsteps.com/207-windows-virtual-machine-linux-windows/. The
only real issue you might encounter is getting USB recognition for the
virtual system but this and anything else are bound to be documented with
an appropriate fix in one of the Linux forums. MC - Site Manager.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 19. June 2016 - 12:41

(126947)

I have W7 and 10 on partitions on a Compaq l/top to see what 10 was
like have found it hard to adjust but have done a lot of retro fitting
with Winaero tweaker to make it feel more usable.

My daily is a Toshiba l/top partitioned with W7 and Linux Mint,
Really want to move over to Mint but I don't seem to find the time at
present as I am trying to keep up on the W10"s evolution.

I could kiss all the heart ache good bye If I could convince myself
to only log onto Mint but I really don't understand linux at all and had
zero success getting my scanner to function which I need continuously and
installing other items not knowing if they are enabled or installed even
at all.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by MidnightCowboy on 19. June 2016 - 13:30

(126950)

Just enter your scanner details into the Mint forum search and
someone has bound to have encountered the same issue before and obtained a
fix. I use a HP Deskjet for instance and it's just a matter of installing
the appropriate driver using Synaptic. MC - Site Manager.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by ron525 on 21. June 2016 - 13:50

(126974)

I will do that I did try google with specific for the LiDE 110 but
found nothing, tried Canon but they don't support Linux for it.

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by lunchbeast on 18. June 2016 - 18:33

(126944)

Speaking of Luddites, how far back can we go with this 'make it
look like the old version that looked and worked better'? I have always
preferred the look and feel of Win2K/WinXP, and I was able to get Win7 to
look very similar. If Win10 can be made to look like Win7, can Win10 be
made to look like Win7 looking like Win2K/WinXP?

a.. Log in or register to post comments
Submitted by rhiannon on 18. June 2016 - 20:39

(126945)

I haven't run across anything that mentions that. If anyone else
knows, maybe they'll comment. :)

a.. Log in or register to post comments
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Re: Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog #article

Gene
 

I doubt that it can be bought.  It is probably registered legally as a nonprofit enterprise.  I don't see how there can be an owner.  It is open source.  Open source software doesn't have an owner.  NVDA receives a lot of donations from users and a lot of grants.  If it were sold, how would it be determined how much grant money and personal donations would be returned? 
 
the idea that Microsoft would even want to purchase NVDA is antethetical to what Microsoft has consistently said for years.  It doesn't want to be in the business of developingh full screen-readers.  They believe, rightly, that those with experience and knowledge in this area should do so.  For years, Microsoft was criticized as being a monopoly.  Are peoples' memories really that short?  Why would anyone want Microsoft to be in a position to become a monopoly holder of a full screen-reader?  And there is no indication that Microsoft wants to. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

They would buy it from the developers of NVDA the same one that takes donation for NVDA! Just because it is open source does not mean it don’t have an owner! But I just throwing things out there I don’t expect MS to buy no screen reader at all. I think they are going to continue with Narrator ! They have too much time invested in it at this point! But who knows never know!

 

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:35 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

As NVDA is open source, who would they buy it from? MS taking over NVDA doesn’t appear to be a good idea. Look at what’s happened to Skype since MS took that over? It’s become inefficient, and you’ve got to wait sometimes for an auto-update to complete, which takes a few minutes, before you can make that all-important scheduled call!  Also, Skype has suffered some outages in recent times, something that never happened in the ‘good old days’.

 

From: Matt

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

Well like I say MS might have other plans for it it is nice to have a fully integrated screen reader in the OS. Now maybe they will buy NVDA and dump Narrator! That is buy NVDA and keep the NVDA team as well!

 

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Carlos
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:03 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

And honestly, the focus on Narrator seems like wasted time and somewhat excessive in my opinion.  How many people really use Narrator on a daily basis?  The fact is that most users only run Narrator in an emergency or to finish setting up Windows.  It is useful and convenient to have, but for most it does not provide enough functionality to be used as a primary screen reader.  These days those who cannot afford one of the expensive screen readers will most likely use NVDA.  And Narrator has a long way to go before it can compete with NVDA.  That being the case, I believe their time and effort would be better spent on improving accessibility in other areas.  If NVDA did not exist, then the efforts to improve Narrator might seem more significant, but again in my opinion at this time, it just seems like wasted effort.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 6:23 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 

I have defended Microsoft for years when I thought they deserved it.  I will not defend them in their accessibility implementation of accessibility in Windows 10.  My thoughts on the blog entry are below. 


Almost a year after Windows 10 has been released and Microsoft is still dealing with some of the kinds of things discussed in its blog?  Being passionate about accessibility means not waiting a year and still having significant accessibility problems.  Being passionate about accessibility means having reasonable accessibility at the time of initial release. 

 

And please stop patronizing those who provide feedback.  It isn't incredible.  It's useful and good feedback but incredible?  You aren't accomplishing anything by heaping excessive praise on those who provide feedback but patronizing them.  We don't want to be called incredible nor our feedback.  We want implementation and at a much faster and better rate.  And does some of this feedback really have to be given in order for you to know about it?  Since the nineties, Windows screen-readers have routinely offered speech that can go faster than 430 words per minute.  If your accessibility team really needs user feedback to be aware of the need for fast speech, then what else is the team unaware of that should be common knowledge to anyone working in the field of accessibility? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:06 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update | Microsoft Accessibility Blog

 


> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/ <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/>
>
> Making progress on accessibility with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update
>
> With more than one billion people with disabilities in the world, Microsoft is passionate about accessibility and ensuring our products work for all our customers. Today we are excited to share additional details about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which represents a significant step forward in our effort to make Microsoft products accessible. We encourage anyone already running Windows 10 to upgrade when the update becomes available. We also recognize that we must continue to invest in accessibility and are committed to the continued improvement of built-in features like Narrator and Magnifier as well as the accessibility of experiences and apps like Cortana, Mail and setup. If you are a user of Assistive Technology and are still using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 and want to wait to upgrade, don’t forget that you will still have the opportunity to upgrade at no cost even after the Windows 10 free upgrade period ends. We will have a page available on July 29 for people using AT to take advantage of the free upgrade offer.
>
> We have already shared many of these details with our Windows Insider program over the last several months, so this blog post will recap those areas and share a few new things. Customer feedback through the Windows Insider program and from our users with disabilities has been essential to helping us focus our work in several key areas. These include improving the screen reading experience with Narrator, the accessibility of experiences and apps like Microsoft Edge, Mail and the Start menu, as well as better tools and resources for developers to build more accessible apps and experiences.
>
> Improved Screen Reading with Narrator
>
> As we’ve stated in a series of recent blog posts, a lot of changes with Narrator that you will see as a part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update were directly influenced by your incredible feedback. Those changes include:
>
> Faster text to speech voices
>
> We’ve added new voices to Narrator that offer a much faster top rate of speech. Our current voices average a maximum of roughly 400 words per minute. The new voices average nearly twice that at approximately 800 words per minute.
>
> New languages in Narrator
>
> We continue to add new international languages for Narrator, including Arabic and several Nordic languages. The following new languages will be available either with the corresponding international version of Windows or will be available for download.
>
> Spanish (Mexico) French (Canada) Portuguese (Brazil)
> Arabic (Egypt) Catalan (Spain) Danish (Denmark)
> Finnish (Finland) Norwegian (Norway) Dutch (Belgium)
> Dutch (Netherlands) Portuguese (Portugal) Swedish (Sweden)
> Turkish (Turkey)
> More familiar keyboard navigation
>
> Keyboard commands in Narrator are now more familiar to users of other screen readers. Some keyboard interactions have been simplified to ensure better ergonomics, making them easier to type.
>
> Introducing scan mode
>
> We’ve introduced a new navigation mode to Narrator called Scan mode. Scan Mode is turned on with a press of CAPS LOCK and SPACE. While you are in Scan mode you can press SPACE to activate an item of interest, such as following a link on a web page or pressing a button in an app.
>
> Six levels of verbosity
>
> Narrator now supports six levels of verbosity for giving you more details about the characteristics of text. You can cycle through these modes by pressing CAPS LOCK + CTRL + (PLUS). For example, at what we call Verbose mode 0 (zero), you will hear just the text. At verbose mode 1, you might hear if the text is a heading. At other verbose levels, you will get varying indications of other text properties, like text color or formatting.
>
> Punctuation Modes
>
> Narrator now gives you more control over how much punctuation you hear when reading text. CAPS LOCK+ALT+(PLUS) and CAPS LOCK+ALT+(MINUS) cycle through the settings for punctuation. The settings for punctuation include none, some, most, all and math along with default.
>
> Now announcing AutoSuggest results
>
> Many applications in Windows 10 offer automatic suggestions as you enter information. For example, when you start entering a search term in an application search box you may get suggestions based on what you are entering. With Narrator you will now get a verbal hint with an audio indication when these suggestions are available.
>
> Feedback made easy
>
> Pressing CAPS LOCK + E + E when running Narrator is an easy way to send us feedback. This shortcut will bring up a feedback form where you can submit comments and suggestions about your experience with Narrator.
>
> User guides and documentation
>
> Our documentation team has been working hard to update the resources available to those who are learning how to use Narrator. We are looking forward to providing improved and more complete documentation like an updated Narrator user guide that will be available online when the Anniversary Update is released.
>
> Working to make apps and experiences more accessible
>
> Along with many of these accessibility updates to Windows 10, most of our app teams have also been making regular updates. Below are a few of the notable highlights.
>
> More accessible browsing and reading with Microsoft Edge
>
> In a series of blog posts, the Microsoft Edge team has been providing detailed updates on their accessibility progress. For example, the team has already shared how work to support modern web accessibility standards is helping developers more easily build accessible sites. And with the introduction of Microsoft Edge’s new accessibility architecture, we are working to make Edge a more inclusive and reliable experience for everyone. The team has also been working closely with the most popular third-party assistive technology vendors to guide them through the transition to this new platform.
>
> In addition to the work the team has already shared, we are also excited for you to try the improvements to the end user accessibility experience of the Microsoft Edge app and PDF reader. These include broad support for tagged PDF files, and a wide range of improvements to common daily browsing features such as address bar, tabs, windows, and favorites.
>
> Mail
>
> Since the initial release of Windows 10 last summer, there have been many improvements to the accessibility of the Mail app. The Mail team described many of these updates in a blog last February and has since that time continued to make progress on things like improving the account setup experience when using a screen reader.
>
> Cortana
>
> You can more reliably operate search and Cortana with the keyboard, including things like navigating using arrow keys and tab order. There are also Improvements to high contrast that make the Cortana UI more legible in all contrast modes. The team has also made a number of general fixes that improve the experience with Cortana when using accessibility tools such as Windows Speech Recognition, Narrator and other screen-readers.
>
> Groove
>
> The Groove team has delivered a number of key updates for low vision users like better support for high DPI scaling and better high contrast support, including better color combinations and the boxing of text when appearing on top of album art. In addition, the team has done work to make the app a better experience when using a screen reader by adding a number of new shortcut keys as well as fixing a number of bugs when using Narrator.
>
> Making accessibility easier for developers
>
> In addition to the progress being made with our apps and built-in accessibility features we have been making investments in the tools and reference materials that developers rely on to create accessible experiences within their apps and websites. Here are a few developer resources we have already made available or will be a part of the Windows 10 anniversary Update.
>
> New Tools
>
> Developer tools are essential to making accessibility just work. The Visual Studio App Analysis tool was updated to helping devs to find, triage and fix accessibility errors like flagging controls that don’t have an accessible name. We also introduced a new developer mode in Narrator. Narrator dev mode can be turned on when Narrator is already running by pressing SHIFT + CAPS LOCK + F12. When dev mode is turned on the screen will be masked and will highlight only the accessible objects and the associated text that is exposed programmatically to Narrator.
>
> XAML Improvements
>
> The XAML team has improved the support for Mnemonics within Universal Windows Apps (UWA’s) allowing for better Access Key customizations. For example, the developer of a shopping app can now assign a custom Access Key like P, that can be activated by pressing ALT then the letter P, in order to activate the purchase button.
>
> Improved Documentation
>
> And finally the team has worked hard to improve the discoverability and update the documentation we provide for developers. We recently relaunched the accessibility developer hub as well as general design guidelines and sample code for accessibility.
>
> Most importantly, your feedback is imperative to getting accessibility right. Keep letting us know what accessibility features are important to you. If you are already running Windows 10, you can simply press CAPS LOCK + E (two times) to bring up a feedback form when using Narrator. Or, if you are technically minded, you can help us by becoming a Windows Insider and giving us feedback on the latest updates to Windows as we are building them.
>
> Previous Blogs and Resources:
>
> Windows
>
> Further Details on the Coming Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/09/further-details-on-the-coming-improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Improvements to Narrator in Windows 10 <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/11/improvements-to-narrator-in-windows-10/>
> Making Windows 10 and Office 365 more accessible: Our path forward <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/24/making-windows-10-and-office-365-more-accessible-our-path-forward/>
> Accessibility Update for Windows 10 Mail <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/02/01/accessibility-update-for-windows-10-mail/>
> Accessibility and the Windows 10 Free Upgrade <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/06/accessibility-and-the-windows-10-free-upgrade/>
> Microsoft Edge
>
> Ensuring high-quality browser accessibility with automation <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/26/new-edge-blog-ensuring-high-quality-browser-accessibility-with-automation/>
> Building a more accessible user experience with HTML5 and UIA <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/05/13/new-edge-blog-building-a-more-accessible-user-experience-with-html5-and-uia/>
> Building a More Accessible Web Platform <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/04/21/building-a-more-accessible-web-platform/>
> Developers
>
> Accessibility Design guidelines <https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/accessibility/accessibility-overview>
> Accessibility Developer Hub <https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/accessible-apps>

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