Date   

locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Well if you can talk as well as you can write you should have no problem using dictation in most situations, and for the record, dictation works much better on IOS than it does on a computer. IOS has a couple of typing modes. The default is standard typing, where you have to locate the key and double tap it to enter the keystroke. This is a great way to get comfortable with the on-screen keyboard. Once you are comfortable you can switch to touch typing. In this mode you just touch the keyboard and lift your finger to type it in. If you land on the wrong key, just slide your finger until you find the correct one, then lift your finger to type it. If you’re familiar with the layout of the qwerty keyboard, and I’m guessing you are, most times you will land in the right place, or close to it. You’d be surprised how quickly you will catch on if you would just approach it with an open mind.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 11:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!






On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...






locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Not true at all.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 11:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

It's interesting how I got started with IOS. A friend of mine had an iPod
touch. She let me fiddle with it a few times but I really wasn't all that
interested, but she swore by it's accessibility and the things she could
accomplish with it. One day we were speaking on the phone. She told me she
was going to buy an iPhone and would be selling her iPod touch. I decided on
a whim to buy it so I got on to paypal and sent her some cash. A day later I
went to visit her and she gave me the iPod. Within 5 minutes I was flustered
and told her I might have acted in haste. She offered to refund me as she
could have easily sold it elsewhere. I suggested me taking it for a day to
play with it. The next day she asked me if I still wanted to return the iPod
touch. I told her she could have it back over my dead body. I'm not saying I
had mastered it in a day, but I knew I would be fine if I just stuck with
it.

Sometimes I find some people are so unwilling to try anything new that they
sell themselves short and miss out on so much. We're in such a good place
now with regards to having equal access to things that were only a dream
only a few years ago. I can't speak for anyone else, but there's nothing
quite like the feeling of being independent.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of jan
howells via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 11:05 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I have been using ios since 2012. My brother bought me my very first iPod
Touch, Then in 1013, he bought me an iPad mini. He just bought me an iPad
mini 4. I love the books by Larry Lewis that National Braille Press has.
Thez have helped tremendously.
I think that he is the direcjor of flying blind.

Jan


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald Levy
 


Again, I can choose to use a computer with a full-size keyboard.  I have no such option with a smart phone or tablet.  The only option for a keyboard is a blutoot keyboard whose keys are so small that they cannot be labeled with tactile markers like a full-size keyboard. I don't even understand how anyone can type accurately on one of these things using conventional touch typing, let alone using it in the street if your hands are preoccupied with a cane or guide dog harness or package.  For those of us who are advancing in age and developing arthritis in the hands and fingers, touchscreens and small blutoot keyboards are not really practical options. For the record, I still use an LG 4650 cell phone that is about 15 years old and will soon stop working because it is not 5G compatible.  Don't laugh.  Because I find using the small tactile keys difficult, I make calls using voice commands.  I keep this phone on hand mostly for emergencies, and have only used it about a dozen times in the past ten years. I would be interested in the Alcatel Flip Go as a replacement if it had voice command capability, but it apparently does not.   


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 10:40 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

James Bentley
 

Yep, there is nothing like a computer in your pocket, unless it is in your hand.  Don’t know how I ever lived with out air conditioning and my smart phone.

 

It is so worth the trouble and time to learn.

 

I have a 6 year old iPod and a 4 year old Android phone.  Soon to buy a new iPhone.

 

I’ll fight you over them all.

 

James B

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:46 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Yes, I started with the 4S as well. I can’t remember a time in my life where I felt quite as liberated as when I realized I was going to master the touch screen.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Dowling
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:07 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald,

There's no way you don't keep up with mainstream tech, right?Because you should at least know that Apple still has the physical volume/power buttons. Like I said in a much earlier post, If able, I strongly recommend going to an Apple Store and checking out the new phones.

I'm sure a representative wouldn't mind showing you how to use VoiceOver, and you never know, you may like it.

Just some friendly advice from an ios user of nerly 9 years now. Wow... time flies. It feels like yesterday when I got my 4S. :)

 

On Feb 21, 2020, at 7:15 AM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Sorry, makes sence now. Thanks for clarifying.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Norma
A. Boge
Sent: February 21, 2020 10:19 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I slightly misquoted the headline, which is:
SEISMIC SHIFT -
Apple is considering letting users change default email, browser, music apps
in iOS The plans are not final, but they would make for a radical change in
strategy.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/apple-is-considering-letting-users-c
hange-default-email-browser-music-apps-in-ios/

Best, Norma, who's still LOL

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris
judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 4:27 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Must have been an old article. There have been alternatives to the native
email app for years. I have outlook and the gmail app on my phone as we
speak.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Norma
A. Boge
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:46 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Wonder if I'm understanding your message. Seems the material you read
totally missed one of the great benefits of Android: you can choose the
keyboard that suits you. I use 3 on my Pixel, Gboard is my main driver but
the others have their purposes. Actually, you can use any app you like. No
offense, but I saw a headline earlier today that said Apple is considering
allowing iPhone users to choose another app for email other than the
default. Too funny. <smile>



-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carolyn
Arnold
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 11:41 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I had an Android tablet and did read articles and a couple of books on it,
something I have not done on my iPhone other than some news articles, emails
or texts, stuff like that. I read a couple of books on that tablet, tricky,
because I was winging it without help. I might have stayed with Android, had
that tablet not had a keyboard, which I could have removed. That keyboard,
to me, was so clumsy, that I never want another one for a touch-screen
device.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates
LTD, Inc.
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 11:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I was 18 months old when blindness set in due to measles. I don't
recall what anyone's face looks like; I can't blink or make any expressions
with my eyes; I can't MOVE MY EYES, look down, left or right as the
ophthalmologists at the eye clinic try to make me do when I present for
checkup. Colors are just that, I've never seen them, and so I don't make
sense of them. Yet, people talk about colors all the time.

Ok, silly child, why go through this charade? I have done so to refute your
argument that those of us who are blind using touchscreen toys do so with
sighted assistance and or help.

Sorry sir, this is NOT THE CASE with me! My touchscreen toy HAS NO PHYSICAL
BUTTONS of any kind and I use it unperturbed with NO SIGHTED ASSISTANCE AND
HELP! I took my Shiny Android Toy OUT OF THE BOX and got it going ALL ON MY
OWN sitting at my desk at work. And, yes, I'm THE ONLY EMPLOYEE here until
I fire myself!

For the records, I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF AN EXPERT in anything; I am
CONSTANTLY LEARNING and seeking for ways to learn. I start out by trying to
explore anything on my own; when I get stuck, I ask questions either here on
this list, or some other lists I roam on, but I don't go around looking for
sighted help until I have exhausted my channels within the blind community.


All that said, is there an area where I fall short? Sure!
I'm not too good at using my toy to scan and read printed materials; I
suppose this has to do with my spatial orientation; I'm working on it on my
own presently.
However, if I don't hatch it down within the period I have allotted, I'll
seek sighted assistance for this purpose only.

Apologies for making this post rather long; I, like several others, had to
write to dispel the notion that blind users of touchscreen toys are heavily
reliant on folks with a pair of eyes! Of course, I belong to the school
which believes that if an individual is visually impaired and has sufficient
residual vision, this should be used always to the maximum extent possible.
Any such individual should NEVER PERMIT anyone to PULL SLEEPSHADES over his
or her face for any reason. I still have LIGHT PERCEPTION which is slowly
going away. I do enjoy being able to use it and I'll never participate in
any rehabilitative training skill or program that seeks to force me to wear
sleepshades.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Christ Gerald, that’s true of everything, isn’t it?

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?



On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

chris judge
 

Yes, I started with the 4S as well. I can’t remember a time in my life where I felt quite as liberated as when I realized I was going to master the touch screen.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Dowling
Sent: February 21, 2020 9:07 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald,

There's no way you don't keep up with mainstream tech, right?Because you should at least know that Apple still has the physical volume/power buttons. Like I said in a much earlier post, If able, I strongly recommend going to an Apple Store and checking out the new phones.

I'm sure a representative wouldn't mind showing you how to use VoiceOver, and you never know, you may like it.

Just some friendly advice from an ios user of nerly 9 years now. Wow... time flies. It feels like yesterday when I got my 4S. :)



On Feb 21, 2020, at 7:15 AM, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Peter Spitz
 

If the motherboard on my computer goes out, no amount of tapping on
the keyboard is going to fix it. Likewise, if the chip on in iPhone
craps out, the lack of a keyboard will be of no difference. That's
not comparing apples to oranges, it's just a simple fact. And for the
record, I am totally blind - both my eyes are prosthetics - and use
my iPhone just as easily as I use my Dell laptop with few exceptions.

On 2/21/20, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard. A smart phone
doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a
problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges. (pun
intended)


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that. Your computer's mother board can develop a
problem and the computer won't function at all. I don't see you
begging the question about your computer or implying that you
shouldn't use a computer. Sooner or later, it all comes down to this,
no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions,
after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up
straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones.
Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful
purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such
phones and people give answers that may be reassuring. But beyond a
point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias. No user who
knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart
phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible, A component
may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any
computer or minicomputer. That is no reason not to use one. The
brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or
cabs? assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation. If the risk is
low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do
activities with some risk. Almost any activity has at least a very
small amount of risk.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
<mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>
*Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is
impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech
that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it
not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any
kind? If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have
no speech in the first place?


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech
is usually caused by:

1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn
it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of
the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a
gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much
simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

*From:*main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> *On Behalf
Of *Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
*Sent:* February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?
Then what? How do you restore Voice Over without sighted help if you
have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place? No
operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could
cause loss of speech.

Gerald

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have
used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

*From:*main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
<main@TechTalk.groups.io> <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io> *On
Behalf Of *Alex Stone via Groups.Io
*Sent:* February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
*To:* main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I
take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
<bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io
<mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>> wrote:



I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones
that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really
"blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some
funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen. Those who
are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart
phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart
phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart
Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to
hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer
using the new Samsung smart flip phone.

Gerald

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on
discussions I've seen on this topic before. Most smart
phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the
elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I
can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough
comments on lists like this that the button's elimination
doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone. Evidently,
the screen simulates the presence of a button by
vibrating. I'm not saying I definitely understand the
situation and I await other comments but how many people
have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because
of elimination of the home button?

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

*From:*Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
<mailto:bwaylimited=verizon.net@groups.io>

*Sent:*Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

*To:*main@TechTalk.groups.io
<mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip
phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it
to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like
a wallet. But in tests, it proved to be very fragile,
and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its
very high price tag. And it would probably not be a good
choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the
touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile
buttons. This seems to be a growing trend in smart
phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it
virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the
phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on
training.

Gerald

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the
other day and I think they said that Samsung was the
company producing it. From the way the guy was
describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be
a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta
be! LOL LOL Check out the link below for a review.


https://gizmodo.com/24-hours-with-the-samsung-galaxy-z-flip-has-me-convince-1841791884


Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Lisa Belville <mailto:missktlab1217@...>

*To:*Tech Talk <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

*Subject:*[TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his
old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart
flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip
phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone.
I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info
about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...
<mailto:missktlab1217@...>





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Monte Single
 

Hundreds of millions of computers no longer have tactile keyboards.  Your computer, and mine, have keyboards.

All the tablets; windows, android and apple, do not come with a physical keyboard, but they can be used with a physical keyboard if the user so desires.

The humming box on or near you with an attached keyboard is a remnant of the last millennium.

Shake a leg pilgrim;  the world is movin on;  for better or worse!!

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February-21-20 9:30 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:

He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 

 

Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!





On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...





locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald Levy
 


The difference is that a computer has a tactile keyboard.  A smart phone doesn't, which makes it more difficult for a blind consumer to resolve a problem without sighted help. Don't mix Apples with oraanges.  (pun intended)


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 8:41 AM, Gene wrote:
He is not saying that.  Your computer's mother board can develop a problem and the computer won't function at all.  I don't see you begging the question about your computer or implying that you shouldn't use a computer.  Sooner or later, it all comes down to this, no matter how often you discuss such topics and ask such questions, after a point, you are simply begging the question and setting up straw men because you are irremediably biased against smart phones. 
 
Your questions in the beginning of such discussions may serve a useful purpose because there may be people who are worried about trying such phones and people give answers that may be reassuring.  But beyond a point, you are just indulging your antismart phone bias.  No user who knows something about computers or minicomputers, which is what smart phones are, would say that loss of speech is impossible,  A component may fail, something may become corrupted, and that is true of any computer or minicomputer.  That is no reason not to use one.  The brakes could fail when you are in a car, but do you ride busses or cabs?  assessing risk is a risk/benefit evaluation.  If the risk is low enough and the benefitsworht the risk, people constantly do activities with some risk.  Almost any activity has at least a very small amount of risk. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald Levy
 


Not if the battery is user replaceable, as it is on many cell phones. 


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 8:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Yes, my friend has an older I phone, an s e I think.

The battery  died and he had to take it to a chop to have it replaced.

Even if you have a cell phone, new or old,  you will have to go to a phone store to  get a new battery.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mich Verrier
Sent: February-21-20 7:19 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Well a good oderbox case would help to prevent that and keeping your phone pertected also helps. yes from what I know the battery is not accessible and I think it is not able to be accesed by the avrige person. Fromo Mich.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 8:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?

 

On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald Levy
 

Remember when Appleboasted that it would start making IPhones in the US?  How did that work out?  Now they are all made in China in sweatshops whose workers are paid coolie wages to maximize Apple's profits.  And now, thanks to the Corona virus, Apple has reported that it may have to reduce its production capacity in China. Coupled with the President's tariffs on Chinese imports, the price of an IPhone as well as other smart phones could go even higher. As far as those specialized phones, they are not sold in stores. At least if you buy a smart phone at a Best Buy store, you can bring it back to them for repair because they deal with large, mainstream manufacturers like LG and Samsung that have facilities in the US.  But bring a BlindShell into Best Buy for repair and they will probably laugh you right out of the store.


 Gerald

On 2/21/2020 9:14 AM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. wrote:
Hmm, Gerald, I may be wrong, but I don't know of any smart toy as I call
them being made in the United States! Even the iPhone is assembled in China
and imported back into our country; Samsung toys are generally assembled in
Vietnam, and Google Pixel toys in Taiwan. Heck, even Braille devices which
cost more than an arm and a few toes are assembled outside the United States
and imported back to our country.

So, in that regard, the Smart Vision and Blindshell toys are just following
the trend. Manufacturers generally assemble their toys where labour is
extremely cheap and poorly regulated; then they bring them to us to purchase
at whatever price point they elect to charge. In the Android world where
there's no ONE SIZE FITS ALL, several of the available smart toys in the
mainstream are made by companies that DO NOT HAVE any physical presence in
our country; yet, these toys perform at reasonably high levels for a long,
long time. It is wrong to single out the producers of the Smart Vision and
the Blindshell toys especially since all they are doing is following in the
tracks of other manufacturers. If your reason is to be adopted, we all
might as well walk around naked 'cause more than 100% of the shirts and
coats we wear are made elsewhere and brought here for resale; but we don't
knock them off!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado




locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

jan howells <gale7978@...>
 

I have been using ios since 2012. My brother bought me my very first iPod Touch, Then in 1013, he bought me an iPad mini. He just bought me an iPad mini 4. I love the books by Larry Lewis that National Braille Press has. Thez have helped tremendously. I think that he is the direcjor of flying blind.

Jan


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

jan howells <gale7978@...>
 

Hi Gerald,

When you have voiceover on, go into Settings, General, Accessibility, shortcuts. Turn on shortcuts in Accessibility in general in settings. Een as do not have a voice, top the home button three times for voiceover on. See if that helps. If you make sure that shortcuts are on, you can iet the voice back that way. Or you can tell Siri to turn voiceover on. You can also jurn on Hey Siri, so that you can just speak without holding down a home button. Then when you do not hear a voice, just say, Hey Siri, turn voiceoofer on. I hopaid that this helps. The best book in braille or e-text that you can get from the nbp, is a book by Larry Lewis. He has a few. One is called, IOS in the classroom. His books are geered to teach parents and teachers to train young people. They are very easy to comprehend.

Jan


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Norma A. Boge
 

I slightly misquoted the headline, which is:
SEISMIC SHIFT -
Apple is considering letting users change default email, browser, music apps
in iOS
The plans are not final, but they would make for a radical change in
strategy.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/apple-is-considering-letting-users-c
hange-default-email-browser-music-apps-in-ios/

Best, Norma, who's still LOL

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris
judge
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 4:27 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Must have been an old article. There have been alternatives to the native
email app for years. I have outlook and the gmail app on my phone as we
speak.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Norma
A. Boge
Sent: February 21, 2020 12:46 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Wonder if I'm understanding your message. Seems the material you read
totally missed one of the great benefits of Android: you can choose the
keyboard that suits you. I use 3 on my Pixel, Gboard is my main driver but
the others have their purposes. Actually, you can use any app you like. No
offense, but I saw a headline earlier today that said Apple is considering
allowing iPhone users to choose another app for email other than the
default. Too funny. <smile>



-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carolyn
Arnold
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 11:41 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

I had an Android tablet and did read articles and a couple of books on it,
something I have not done on my iPhone other than some news articles, emails
or texts, stuff like that. I read a couple of books on that tablet, tricky,
because I was winging it without help. I might have stayed with Android, had
that tablet not had a keyboard, which I could have removed. That keyboard,
to me, was so clumsy, that I never want another one for a touch-screen
device.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io
[mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates
LTD, Inc.
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 11:55 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald, I was 18 months old when blindness set in due to measles. I don't
recall what anyone's face looks like; I can't blink or make any expressions
with my eyes; I can't MOVE MY EYES, look down, left or right as the
ophthalmologists at the eye clinic try to make me do when I present for
checkup. Colors are just that, I've never seen them, and so I don't make
sense of them. Yet, people talk about colors all the time.

Ok, silly child, why go through this charade? I have done so to refute your
argument that those of us who are blind using touchscreen toys do so with
sighted assistance and or help.

Sorry sir, this is NOT THE CASE with me! My touchscreen toy HAS NO PHYSICAL
BUTTONS of any kind and I use it unperturbed with NO SIGHTED ASSISTANCE AND
HELP! I took my Shiny Android Toy OUT OF THE BOX and got it going ALL ON MY
OWN sitting at my desk at work. And, yes, I'm THE ONLY EMPLOYEE here until
I fire myself!

For the records, I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF AN EXPERT in anything; I am
CONSTANTLY LEARNING and seeking for ways to learn. I start out by trying to
explore anything on my own; when I get stuck, I ask questions either here on
this list, or some other lists I roam on, but I don't go around looking for
sighted help until I have exhausted my channels within the blind community.


All that said, is there an area where I fall short? Sure!
I'm not too good at using my toy to scan and read printed materials; I
suppose this has to do with my spatial orientation; I'm working on it on my
own presently.
However, if I don't hatch it down within the period I have allotted, I'll
seek sighted assistance for this purpose only.

Apologies for making this post rather long; I, like several others, had to
write to dispel the notion that blind users of touchscreen toys are heavily
reliant on folks with a pair of eyes! Of course, I belong to the school
which believes that if an individual is visually impaired and has sufficient
residual vision, this should be used always to the maximum extent possible.
Any such individual should NEVER PERMIT anyone to PULL SLEEPSHADES over his
or her face for any reason. I still have LIGHT PERCEPTION which is slowly
going away. I do enjoy being able to use it and I'll never participate in
any rehabilitative training skill or program that seeks to force me to wear
sleepshades.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
 

Hmm, Gerald, I may be wrong, but I don't know of any smart toy as I call
them being made in the United States! Even the iPhone is assembled in China
and imported back into our country; Samsung toys are generally assembled in
Vietnam, and Google Pixel toys in Taiwan. Heck, even Braille devices which
cost more than an arm and a few toes are assembled outside the United States
and imported back to our country.

So, in that regard, the Smart Vision and Blindshell toys are just following
the trend. Manufacturers generally assemble their toys where labour is
extremely cheap and poorly regulated; then they bring them to us to purchase
at whatever price point they elect to charge. In the Android world where
there's no ONE SIZE FITS ALL, several of the available smart toys in the
mainstream are made by companies that DO NOT HAVE any physical presence in
our country; yet, these toys perform at reasonably high levels for a long,
long time. It is wrong to single out the producers of the Smart Vision and
the Blindshell toys especially since all they are doing is following in the
tracks of other manufacturers. If your reason is to be adopted, we all
might as well walk around naked 'cause more than 100% of the shirts and
coats we wear are made elsewhere and brought here for resale; but we don't
knock them off!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gene
 

This is another example of selective bias.  I have never heard you, Gerald, say that people shouldn't use or purchase used Braille 'N Speaks because the battery pack is not user replaceable.  its only IPhones that you make such specious arguments about such as that a phone, which obviously had its battery installed in a defective way, had this problem.  Most people don't have this problem.  You are taking a low or very low probability event and building a straw man using it.  It happened to one person, therefore it is a serious problem. 
 
You'd better not do much of anything because you can build the same sort of argument about almost anything.  Don't ever walk up and down stairs, what about the man who ...
Don't ever take an elevator.  What about the elevator that ...
Don't ever eat solid food.  What about the man who choked to death because he was alone and ...
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

Yes, my friend has an older I phone, an s e I think.

The battery  died and he had to take it to a chop to have it replaced.

Even if you have a cell phone, new or old,  you will have to go to a phone store to  get a new battery.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mich Verrier
Sent: February-21-20 7:19 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Well a good oderbox case would help to prevent that and keeping your phone pertected also helps. yes from what I know the battery is not accessible and I think it is not able to be accesed by the avrige person. Fromo Mich.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 8:10 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

And why do you guys insist on evading my question?  Don't sit there and tell me that nothing can ever go wrong with an IPhone.  Something as simple as a loose battery connection could cause it to stop working.  My understanding is that the battery is sealed and is not user accessible.  A sighted friend of mine had his IPhone sitting in a phone holder on the dashboard of his car.  He apparently hit a bump, and when he reached his destination, he discovered that the screen was blank.  He wound up taking the phone to a phone or electronics store(I don't know which), and it turned out that the battery had been jostled loose.  And blind pedestrians bump into things all the time.  It's just one of the hazards of being blined.  So don't tell me that things like this can never happen.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:19 AM, Alex Stone wrote:

Why do you insist on deliberately misunderstanding everything that anyone says?

 

On 21 Feb 2020, at 12:15, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

So you are saying that IOS is such a wonderful OS that it is impossible for anything to go wrong and cause complete loss of speech that simple fixes like the ones you suggest won't resolve? And is it not true that the latest IPhone models have no physical buttons of any kind?  If so, how do you locate the volume and home keys if you have no speech in the first place?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 7:03 AM, chris judge wrote:

Yes, but once you learn the device you will learn that loss of speech is usually caused by:

  1. Speech being muted. Solved by a 3 finger double tap.
  2. Voice over being turned off. Solved by either asking siri to turn it on, or pressing the home key 3 times quickly. In the case of the iPhone 10 or above, press the power button 3 times.
  3. Voice over volume being turned down. Solved by invoking a gesture, then pressing up on the volume button.

It’s like any other technology, Once you learn it, things are much simpler than they seem when the device is new to you.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: February 21, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

Okay, let's suppose you turn on your IPhone, and there is no speech?  Then what?  How do you restore Voice Over  without sighted help if you have no idea what's causing the problem in the first place?  No operating system, not even IOS, is immune from problems that could cause loss of speech.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/21/2020 5:10 AM, chris judge wrote:

That’s ridiculous. I’ve been totally blind since birth and have used an IPhone since 2009. Give it a try.

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Stone via Groups.Io
Sent: February 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Gerald, I can assure you that I am really blind, and I think I take exception to the suggestion that I’m not!




On 20 Feb 2020, at 15:01, Gerald Levy via Groups.Io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:



 

I suspect that many "blind" consumers who use smart phones that are completely devoid of tactile buttons are not really "blind" at all, but visually impaired and retain some funtional vision to navigate around a touchscreen.  Those who are totally blind and purport to use a touchscreen smart phone probably had a lot of sighted help. Which is why smart phones with tactile keypads like the BlindShell and Smart Vision have been introduced. So I'm looking forward to hearing about the experiences of a totally blind consumer using the new Samsung smart flip phone.  

 

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/20/2020 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

Your statement about buttons is inaccurate based on discussions I've seen on this topic before.  Most smart phones already had very few buttons, and, as for the elimination of the home button on the I-Phone, while I can't speak from personal experience, I've seen enough comments on lists like this that the button's elimination doesn't mean blind people can't use the phone.  Evidently, the screen simulates the presence of a button by vibrating.  I'm not saying I definitely understand the situation and I await other comments but how many people have you seen say they stopped using an I-Phone because of elimination of the home button? 

 

You often state the worst case interpretation of situations.

 

Gene

----- Origial Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

 

According to Consumer Reports, this Samsung smart flip phone employs a new touchscreen technology that allows it to be thin and flexible enough to be folded in half like a wallet.  But in tests, it proved to be very fragile, and CR did not recommend it, especially in view of its very high price tag.  And it would probably not be a good choice for a blind consumer because even unfolded the touchscreen is relatively small and has no tactile buttons.  This seems to be a growing trend in smart phones: eliminating all physical buttons, making it virtually impossible for a blind consumer to use the phone without some sighted help or a lot of hands-on training.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 2/19/2020 9:20 PM, Mike B wrote:



Hi Lisa,

 

I heard about a phone like you're describing just the other day and I think they said that Samsung was the company  producing it.  From the way the guy was describing the way it works, it sounds like it'll be a really cool phone, but for $1300 it damn well otta be!  LOL  LOL  Check out the link below for a review.

 


 

 

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----

To: Tech Talk

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Subject: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?

 

Hi, all.


My semi-techno-phobic dad is going to trade in his old flip phone soon.
He said he saw something on TV advertising a smart flip phone, he means
a phone with the same body style as a feature flip phone but with the
capability of a modern iPhone or Android Smart phone. I haven't heard
anything about this. Does anyone here have any info about this type of
phone? Brand, Wireless carrier, etc?


TIA


Lisa


--
Lisa Belville
missktlab1217@...




Re: Announcement: Accessibility Webinar from Comcast; February 24

David Goldfield
 

Hi, Josh.

I don't have any information about this as the team that I work with doesn't get directly involved with the various plans which are being offered except where accessibility is concerned. I would recommend that you call (800) 934-6489 and ask about what plans and options might be available in your area.

David Goldfield

www.davidgoldfield.org

Twitter @davidgoldfield



On 2/21/2020 6:46 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
Hi David, 
I heard that Comcast is now offering skinny bundles of channels so you can customise what you get on TV so that it is more to your liking and you don't have a bunch of channels you may not or do not watch. Will this "tv choice" package be out soon? My 2 year promotion ends in May and I would really like to get rid of a bunch of channels I do not watch, but I want to keep my current internet speed. 

Thanks,

Josh


locked Re: New Smart Flip Phone?

Gerald Levy
 


These specialized phones are manufactured overseas by obscure companies that do not have proven track records, so it is difficult to predict their reliability.  I have checked the warranties of the BlindShell and Smart Vision phones, and they are pretty vague about obtaining repairs.  My impression is that the customer would be responsible for sending a malfunctioning phone  back to the manufacturer at his own expense, because these companies apparently have no repair facilities in the US, only national distributors.



Gerald



On 2/21/2020 8:25 AM, Gene wrote:
We'll see if you are right about repair difficulty from other comments.  regardless, depending on the abilities of the phones and the wants and needs of the user, such a risk may be worth it if you can get information about the general reliability and sturdiness of the phones so you know what you are getting and whether it is a good gamble.  A well made phone, either feature or smart phone, that is well treated will last for years without the need for service for most purchasers.  My first feature phone lasted for about seven years.  It was a well made phone and that may be well within most peoples' experience of how long phones typically last if they are well cared for.  I have a friend whose feature phone lasted, as I recall for nine or ten years, maybe longer.  That is my impression, that for most users, a well cared for, wel made phone will last for years.  We'll see if others support my impression.  There are times when a gamble is worth taking. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] New Smart Flip Phone?


And the Smart Vision 2  is also expensive and made by an obscure company
that provides little information about getting it repaired when it
breaks, which it invariably will at some point.  Ditto for the
BlindShell.  This is the dirty little secretabout specialized phones
designed for blind consumers.  Nobody wants to acknowledge the fact that
getting them repaired could be difficult to impossible, which, to me, is
unacceptable when you are spending hundreds of dollars.  The warranty
isn't worth the paper it is printed on.  How many blind consumers are
going to send their precious Smart Vision or BlindShell to the Czech
Republic or some other overseas destination for repair and then wait
weeks to get it returned?  Bring it in to Best Buy and hope Geek Squad
can fix it?  I don't think so.  Just ask anyone who was screwed over by
Odin Mobile and got stuck with a phone that is now serving as a
paperweight.


Gerald



On 2/21/2020 6:40 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> There's no need for just a flip phone if you are looking for buttons. 
> There are two phones that I know of that will fill the bill.  One is
> the Smart Vision2 and the other is Blind shell or something similar. 
> SmartVision2 is excellent!
>
> Ann P.
>