Editing with NVDA


Marie <magpie.mn@...>
 

I am primarily a Jaws user but do use NVDA as an occasional backup. When in a message body, word or text document, etc. with Jaws, you can hold down the Jaws key and tab the right or left arrows to move by word rather that by character. Is there any similar method of doing this in NVDA?Thanks
 


Gene
 

Hold either control and use the left and right arrow keys.  This is a standard Windows navigation method. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Marie
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2019 10:31 PM
To: main
Subject: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA

I am primarily a Jaws user but do use NVDA as an occasional backup. When in a message body, word or text document, etc. with Jaws, you can hold down the Jaws key and tab the right or left arrows to move by word rather that by character. Is there any similar method of doing this in NVDA?Thanks
 


Marie <magpie.mn@...>
 

LOL! I have been using Windows almost since there was a Windows, and never knew that. Good grief!
Thanks

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 10:16 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA
 
Hold either control and use the left and right arrow keys.  This is a standard Windows navigation method. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Marie
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2019 10:31 PM
To: main
Subject: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA
 
I am primarily a Jaws user but do use NVDA as an occasional backup. When in a message body, word or text document, etc. with Jaws, you can hold down the Jaws key and tab the right or left arrows to move by word rather that by character. Is there any similar method of doing this in NVDA?Thanks
 


Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

In Windows, ctrl-right-arrow and ctrl-left-arrow do this. They are *not* screen reader commands, therefore, they should work no matter what you're using. My advice is to spend some time getting away from dependency on Jaws and learn Windows commands so that you can operate a computer even if it's running Cobra or NVDA or System Access or whatever. There are compilations of Windows keyboard commands available both from NBP and on the net.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


BB <Berniece1910@...>
 

Ann, This response is a bit off putting. She said she had been using Windows for a long time and just because she was unaware of one command does not mean she is too dependent on any screen reader. I am sure that no one, including yourself, know every Windows command.

These lists are to share information and help each other so a little courtesy goes a long way.

On 6/8/2019 4:29 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
Hi all,

In Windows, ctrl-right-arrow and ctrl-left-arrow do this.  They are *not* screen reader commands, therefore, they should work no matter what you're using.   My advice is to spend some time getting away from dependency on Jaws and learn Windows commands so that you can operate a computer even if it's running Cobra or NVDA or System Access or whatever.  There are compilations of Windows keyboard commands available both from NBP and on the net.

Ann P.


Gene
 

Regardless, it is a cautionary example of what happens when you only learn proprietary screen-reader commands to do certain things.  JAWS has proprietary commands to use the numpad for document navigation.  But it is still important to learn the Windows way to do this so you can do what you want to do in the most convenient manner.  Any good instructional material or instructor teaches the Windows way to do things, and if there is an advantage in using proprietary screen-reader commands at times to do certain things, will teach those as well. 
 
But let's take an example:
If the only way you know to move in a document is the JAWS commands, it makes editing much more inconvenient.  You have to constantly take your right hand away from the home keys and move much farther away from them to move.  Let's say you are at the beginning of a line and you want to move five words in and edit the fifth word. 
If you know the Windows wway, you can use control right arrow to move to the word, then edit.
If you only know the JAWS way, you have to move to the numpad, move using the numpad, then place your hand back on the home row and etit.  Compared to the Windows method, it is cumbersome. 
 
Also, if you don't know the Windows way, any time you use a computer, such as a laptop, that doesn't have a numpad, you are put at a significant inconvenience. 
 
and, while this isn't meant as a criticism, control left and right arrow are taught in any good Windows instructional material early on.  This raises the question of how much inconvenience the person is needlessly going through by somehow, perhaps, learning only proprietary JAWS commands for other activities where it is of benefit to know both.
 
And note carefully that I am not blaming or criticizing the person.  I'm saying that however she was taught or whatever materials she used may have been inadequate.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: BB
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2019 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA

Ann, This response is a bit off putting. She said she had been using
Windows for a long time and just because she was unaware of one command
does not mean she is too dependent on any screen reader. I am sure that
no one, including yourself, know every Windows command.

These lists are to share information and help each other so a little
courtesy goes a long way.

On 6/8/2019 4:29 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> In Windows, ctrl-right-arrow and ctrl-left-arrow do this.  They are
> *not* screen reader commands, therefore, they should work no matter
> what you're using.   My advice is to spend some time getting away from
> dependency on Jaws and learn Windows commands so that you can operate
> a computer even if it's running Cobra or NVDA or System Access or
> whatever.  There are compilations of Windows keyboard commands
> available both from NBP and on the net.
>
> Ann P.
>



Kerryn Gunness <k_gunness@...>
 

the same way for NVDA or use control right or left arrow
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Marie
To: main
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 11:31 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA

I am primarily a Jaws user but do use NVDA as an occasional backup. When in a message body, word or text document, etc. with Jaws, you can hold down the Jaws key and tab the right or left arrows to move by word rather that by character. Is there any similar method of doing this in NVDA?Thanks
 


Gene
 

The numpad isn't used for that purpose in NVDA.  The commands being discussed don't move by word.  They move to the next or previous object, that is insert right arrow moves to the next object and insert left arrow moves to the previous object.  If that ever results in moving by word in a program interface, it is coincidental and it doesn't in word processor edit fields.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2019 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA

the same way for NVDA or use control right or left arrow
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Marie
To: main
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 11:31 PM
Subject: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA

I am primarily a Jaws user but do use NVDA as an occasional backup. When in a message body, word or text document, etc. with Jaws, you can hold down the Jaws key and tab the right or left arrows to move by word rather that by character. Is there any similar method of doing this in NVDA?Thanks
 


Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

Of course no one can learn all the commands for anything in the computer world. That's why there are cheat-sheets. that's why there is a recent publication of a new list of keyboard shortcuts for Windows by Dean Martineau. With that said, cursor movement and basic editing commands in Windows should be learned and used. These are basic commands that are usually taught when a student first opens a word processor. You can't get anywhere in a word processor if you don't learn cursor movement commands. We're not talking Jaws cursor commands, or the technical inns and outs of formatting.

I do not often run Jaws, and when I do, I use it as I would use any other screen reader, to read the screen. I use Windows commands and program commands to get stuff done. Apparently, Jaws has attempted to make itself the only set of keyboard commands which are needed by a user. this is good in that the learning curve is made less steep.
However, I think that Vispero has done its users a disservice by encouraging dependency on Jaws instead of on Windows. It makes users unable to get away from Jaws. I don't believe that this benefits users at all.

Now, I know I'm an old curmudgeon. I know I'm opinionated and sometimes I'm a bit acerbic, but I just hate to see people dependent on anything at all, be it sighted guide, alcohol or a given screen reader. One should be independent and be able to make choices freely. One should control one's computer, not the other way around.

That's my opinion, and it's worth the usual $.02.

Heck ctrl right and left arrow keys even works in Linux! So do ctrl-x ctrl-c and ctrl-v. they're universal! I believe that ctrl-p for print also works. Again, best advice is to get a copy of a keyboard command list and keep it handy.

Ann P.

Original message:

Ann, This response is a bit off putting. She said she had been using
Windows for a long time and just because she was unaware of one command
does not mean she is too dependent on any screen reader. I am sure that
no one, including yourself, know every Windows command.
These lists are to share information and help each other so a little
courtesy goes a long way.
On 6/8/2019 4:29 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
Hi all,
In Windows, ctrl-right-arrow and ctrl-left-arrow do this.  They are
*not* screen reader commands, therefore, they should work no matter
what you're using.   My advice is to spend some time getting away from
dependency on Jaws and learn Windows commands so that you can operate
a computer even if it's running Cobra or NVDA or System Access or
whatever.  There are compilations of Windows keyboard commands
available both from NBP and on the net.
Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

Gene, an excellent post! You explain well, and give cogent reasons for your opinions. I agree wholeheartedly. When I took Cathy Murtha's train the trainer course back in the dark ages, she used to say that if we trained our students correctly, they should be able to sit down at any computer, running any screen reader and do it well enough to get a task done. It shouldn't matter what screen reader you're using. If it allows you to read the screen and it repeats what you type, then you should be able to do basic tasks with it.

Ann P.


Original message:

Regardless, it is a cautionary example of what happens when you only learn proprietary screen-reader commands to do certain things. JAWS has proprietary commands to use the numpad for document navigation. But it is still important to learn the Windows way to do this so you can do what you want to do in the most convenient manner. Any good instructional material or instructor teaches the Windows way to do things, and if there is an advantage in using proprietary screen-reader commands at times to do certain things, will teach those as well.
But let's take an example:
If the only way you know to move in a document is the JAWS commands, it makes editing much more inconvenient. You have to constantly take your right hand away from the home keys and move much farther away from them to move. Let's say you are at the beginning of a line and you want to move five words in and edit the fifth word.
If you know the Windows wway, you can use control right arrow to move to the word, then edit.
If you only know the JAWS way, you have to move to the numpad, move using the numpad, then place your hand back on the home row and etit. Compared to the Windows method, it is cumbersome.
Also, if you don't know the Windows way, any time you use a computer, such as a laptop, that doesn't have a numpad, you are put at a significant inconvenience.
and, while this isn't meant as a criticism, control left and right arrow are taught in any good Windows instructional material early on. This raises the question of how much inconvenience the person is needlessly going through by somehow, perhaps, learning only proprietary JAWS commands for other activities where it is of benefit to know both.
And note carefully that I am not blaming or criticizing the person. I'm saying that however she was taught or whatever materials she used may have been inadequate.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: BB <mailto:Berniece1910@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2019 11:21 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Editing with NVDA
Ann, This response is a bit off putting. She said she had been using
Windows for a long time and just because she was unaware of one command
does not mean she is too dependent on any screen reader. I am sure that
no one, including yourself, know every Windows command.
These lists are to share information and help each other so a little
courtesy goes a long way.
On 6/8/2019 4:29 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
Hi all,
In Windows, ctrl-right-arrow and ctrl-left-arrow do this. They are
*not* screen reader commands, therefore, they should work no matter
what you're using. My advice is to spend some time getting away from
dependency on Jaws and learn Windows commands so that you can operate
a computer even if it's running Cobra or NVDA or System Access or
whatever. There are compilations of Windows keyboard commands
available both from NBP and on the net.
Ann P.



--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."