old menu structure for new versions of office


Jeffrey Schwartz
 

I’ve been told that there are programs which allow you to replace this ribbon nonsense with the old structure where there is a menu bar across the top with the old structure, i.e. File, Edit, View and whatever is appropriate for the program I would like it for word and excel.  Anyone know about this radical revision?

Jeff


Robert Kingett <kingettr@...>
 

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>


Jeffrey Schwartz
 

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>


Gerald Levy
 

You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll down to the Start-Up wizard. On the third page of the Start Up wizard, check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button. The menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar with. And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>


Robert Kingett <kingettr@...>
 

If you have a mac here is how to turn off the ribon.

https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Turn-off-or-turn-on-the-ribbon-4dce2753-6ccc-4fb2-bec2-44c24fea4999#bmwd

Here is a free add in that will put the menus back. Accessibility is fare, though. Not the best but it can be used with some trial and error.

http://www.ubit.ch/software/ubitmenu-languages/


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>


Gene
 

I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 
 
Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.
 
And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.
 
Gene
----- Original Messsage -----

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office


You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 




Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

RE ribbons, scarlet or otherwise, I just use the ribbons in their natural state. It's not difficult. It's not arcane or mysterious. It's just like the regular menus except that they're arranged somewhat differently.

Agree the virtual ribbons increase dependency on Jaws, but if that's the only screen reader being used, and there's no employment or educational goals, they work just fine.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@...
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Gerald Levy
 

 
Jeff has reiterated that he is not comfortable with ribbon menus.  Because he is  a senior citizen, maybe he is just not comfortable learning new ways of doing things.  Stop being so intolerant of other list members and pretending that you know what’s best for them.  .  If he prefers classic menus, that is his perogative.     
 
Gerald
 
 
 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 
I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 
 
Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.
 
And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.
 
Gene
----- Original Messsage -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 

You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 




Carlos
 

As usual Gerald is quick to criticize and dismiss others opinions, but the minute you question some of his own attitudes, he accuses you of attacking him.  His dislike of ribbons just gives him something else to add to the long list of things that blind people supposedly either can't use well or can't do at all.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 
 
Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.
 
And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.
 
Gene
----- Original Messsage -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office


You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 




Gerald Levy
 

 
Excuse me, why don’t you bother to read Jeff’s message before you jump all over me?    He said that he wasn’t comfortable with ribbon menus.  He has reiterated this more than once.  I encouraged him to try the JAWS virtual ribbon feature and not be discouraged by others who insist that trying this feature makes him less of a human being.  If you have a problem with that,tough.
 
Gerald
 
 
 

From: Carlos
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 
As usual Gerald is quick to criticize and dismiss others opinions, but the minute you question some of his own attitudes, he accuses you of attacking him.  His dislike of ribbons just gives him something else to add to the long list of things that blind people supposedly either can't use well or can't do at all.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 
I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 
 
Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.
 
And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.
 
Gene
----- Original Messsage -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 

You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 




Gene
 

But with the growing interest in NVDA, dependence on JAWS, created by the JAWS designers, discourages people from saving money and trying another screen-reader.  I'm not assuming that the JAWS virtual ribbons are placed in JAWS to encourage dependence.  But the effect is to discourage people from trying other options that might serve them just as well at no cost except the cost of sending contributions, if they wish.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

Hi all,

RE ribbons, scarlet or otherwise, I just use the ribbons in their
natural state.  It's not difficult.  It's not arcane  or mysterious. 
It's just like the regular menus except that they're arranged somewhat
differently.

Agree the virtual ribbons increase dependency on Jaws, but if that's
the only screen reader being used, and there's no employment or
educational goals, they work just fine.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."



Gene
 

I didn't specifically comment on Jeff nor did I say, Jeff, learn and use ribbons.  I didn't dictate to anyone to learn and use ribbons.  I object to you actively discouraging people from doing so.  People may do what they like but they should be encouraged to try new things.  And you are discouraging that.  And I strongly object to that.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 
Jeff has reiterated that he is not comfortable with ribbon menus.  Because he is  a senior citizen, maybe he is just not comfortable learning new ways of doing things.  Stop being so intolerant of other list members and pretending that you know what’s best for them.  .  If he prefers classic menus, that is his perogative.     
 
Gerald
 
 
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 
I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 
 
Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.
 
And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.
 
Gene
----- Original Messsage -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 

You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 




Carlos
 


Yes, but you also took the opportunity to insult Gene as well.  And if you don't like being reminded that you can be extremely closed minded, tough.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 
Excuse me, why don’t you bother to read Jeff’s message before you jump all over me?    He said that he wasn’t comfortable with ribbon menus.  He has reiterated this more than once.  I encouraged him to try the JAWS virtual ribbon feature and not be discouraged by others who insist that trying this feature makes him less of a human being.  If you have a problem with that,tough.
 
Gerald
 
 
 
From: Carlos
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 
As usual Gerald is quick to criticize and dismiss others opinions, but the minute you question some of his own attitudes, he accuses you of attacking him.  His dislike of ribbons just gives him something else to add to the long list of things that blind people supposedly either can't use well or can't do at all.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 
I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 
 
Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.
 
And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.
 
Gene
----- Original Messsage -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office
 

You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 




heather albright
 

Ribbon, I use this feature. So if you hit insert  and the number six than,  alt  control and the letter d which sets it for all settings. Than type in ribbon and make sure it is checked; hit okay.  That is another way and you do not have to run the set up wizard. It is always good to have options on how to achieve things.

Please please, everyone try to get along and help each other out. Some computer users may be way advanced and others are not but, I think we all want to be able to use our computers to obtain information! I really enjoy this list and have learned much from it.

Thank you,

 

Heather Albright
Blindness is a characteristic, not a handicap!" Dr. Kenneth Jernigan
ham call sign:
kd5cbl
e-mail:
kd5cbl@...

 

From: Gerald Levy
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:06 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

 

Excuse me, why don’t you bother to read Jeff’s message before you jump all over me?    He said that he wasn’t comfortable with ribbon menus.  He has reiterated this more than once.  I encouraged him to try the JAWS virtual ribbon feature and not be discouraged by others who insist that trying this feature makes him less of a human being.  If you have a problem with that,tough.

 

Gerald

 

 

 

From: Carlos

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:52 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

As usual Gerald is quick to criticize and dismiss others opinions, but the minute you question some of his own attitudes, he accuses you of attacking him.  His dislike of ribbons just gives him something else to add to the long list of things that blind people supposedly either can't use well or can't do at all.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 

 

Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.

 

And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.

 

Gene

----- Original Messsage -----

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 


You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 


 


Jeffrey Schwartz
 

I’ve googled it but can not find such a program.  There are a few intries which discuss it but no option I can find  to download such a program.\

Jeff

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 9:15 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

I didn't specifically comment on Jeff nor did I say, Jeff, learn and use ribbons.  I didn't dictate to anyone to learn and use ribbons.  I object to you actively discouraging people from doing so.  People may do what they like but they should be encouraged to try new things.  And you are discouraging that.  And I strongly object to that.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:51 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

 

Jeff has reiterated that he is not comfortable with ribbon menus.  Because he is  a senior citizen, maybe he is just not comfortable learning new ways of doing things.  Stop being so intolerant of other list members and pretending that you know what’s best for them.  .  If he prefers classic menus, that is his perogative.     

 

Gerald

 

 

 

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

I always like to see people discouraging blind people from developing into more competent and confident computer users just because they don't like a feature.  I already sent an article to the list, did you read it, which explains that the JAWS Virtual ribbons are not as good an interface as ribbons and explains why in specific detail with an example or two.  If you don't like ribbons, fine.  If you want to discuss what you don't like about them, fine.  That's different from actively discouraging people from trying something new and from learning the feature.  And that's different from attacking those who encourage trying things you don't like and impuning their motives. 

 

Actively discouraging others from learning them is not a good idea. 
And we all know who you are insulting with your description of me as high and mighty.  Another ad hominem attack, which I discussed your propensity for yesterday.  I am not advocating that people use or at least try using ribbons out of what you term a high and mighty attitude.  I'm doing so because the real ribbons had certain advantages, if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons you are becoming dependent on JAWS and if you want to switch or consider switching to another screen-reader, you will be less likely to do so, and because if you don't try new things, you may not be as competent and confident a computer user in general.  I just love people who actively discourage others from learning and trying new things, especially those who discourage blind computer users from doing so.  Many blind people don't have the confidence it would be good if they had as blind computer users.  Trying new things may increase that confidence.  You never answered the specific objections to ribbons in the article I linked to on the subject about a week ago.  You never said, I tried this objection to see if it is right and it is or it isn't.  You never explained why the author's objections and mine to discouraging the use of real ribbons is incorrect.

 

And your attack completely backfired.  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all but your insults caused me to decide to do so.  I wasn't going to comment because I had discussed everything I had to say about ribbons when the subject  came up about a week ago and I saw no reason to repeat what I had said.  But of course, without even waiting to see if I wrote anything in the thread, you just had to both attack me and actively discourage learning and trying something new.

 

Gene

----- Original Messsage -----

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:37 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 


You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard.  On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button.  The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with.  And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>





 



Jeffrey Schwartz
 

I'm not ignorant, I have a Ph.d. in my field and before I retired I was the
go to guy for computers at my work site and for virtually all blind users at
the entire VA system I may be a bit long in the tooth, but I simply want the
old menu structure. What advantage did MS think it was providing with these
ribbons? My sighted friends hate them as much as I do. Why should we be
forced to Learn a whole new way of doing things just so MS could make more
money? I'd really be grateful to anyone who could point me to such a
program.
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ann Parsons
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:49 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

Hi all,

RE ribbons, scarlet or otherwise, I just use the ribbons in their natural
state. It's not difficult. It's not arcane or mysterious.
It's just like the regular menus except that they're arranged somewhat
differently.

Agree the virtual ribbons increase dependency on Jaws, but if that's the
only screen reader being used, and there's no employment or educational
goals, they work just fine.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL: akp@...
web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Jeffrey Schwartz
 

Gerald,
Thank you so much. Finally, someone gave me the information I needed and
got off personal bickering about whether I should wand it or not.
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gerald Levy
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:38 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office


You can restore the familiar classic menu structure by enabling the JAWS
virtual ribbon feature. To do this, launch the JAWS Help menu, and scroll
down to the Start-Up wizard. On the third page of the Start Up wizard,
check the box to enable virtual ribbons and click on the Okay button. The
menus in Outlook will now appear like the classic menus you are familiar
with. And don't let anyone discourage you from trying this feature because
of their high and mighty attitude that it is better to learn how to navigate
the ribbon menus than sticking with what you are comfortable with.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:03 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

They don't have to be free.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:05 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I do not know any free ones, sorry!


--
Robert Kingett, journalist. View my website below.<p></p><p><br></p><p>[view
my website here](www.blindjournalist.wordpress.com)<br></p><p><br></p>


Mike B. <mb69mach1@...>
 

Hi Jeffrey,
 
Came across this thread in my notes.  It might be just what you're looking for:
From: Dujari, Prateek
yes I'm a huge proponent and very pleased user of 'classic menus for office' for both office 07 and office 10 which can be purchased at
 
www.addintools.com.  Very simple, everything is totally accessible. Once installed and activated, hitting alt Q together and then q again brings up the classic menu in all its glory.
 
Prateek
 
From: CM54
It looks to be about $40
 
I also came across a free option at:
 
 
Has anyone tried this option with Jaws?
CM
 
From: Dujari, Prateek
this free option is only for Office home /student and thus only applies to Word, Excel and PowerPoint. If that is all u care about then sure it should work for free.
 
Prateek
 
From: Glen Jan
Direct link to the office menu purchase / download page.  It is a bit of
a dog's breakfast though:
 
 
Glen
Take care.  Mike.  Go Dodgers!
Sent from my iBarstool.
Arguing with a woman is like reading a software license agreement.  In the end you have to ignore everything, & click I agree.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I'm not ignorant,  I have a Ph.d. in my field and before I retired I was the
go to guy for computers at my work site and for virtually all blind users at
the entire VA system I may be a bit long in the tooth, but I simply want the
old menu structure.  What advantage did MS think it was providing with these
ribbons?  My sighted friends hate them as much as I do.  Why should we be
forced to Learn a whole new way of doing things just so MS could make more
money?  I'd really be grateful to anyone who could point me to such a
program.
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ann Parsons
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:49 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

Hi all,

RE ribbons, scarlet or otherwise, I just use the ribbons in their natural
state.  It's not difficult.  It's not arcane  or mysterious. 
It's just like the regular menus except that they're arranged somewhat
differently.

Agree the virtual ribbons increase dependency on Jaws, but if that's the
only screen reader being used, and there's no employment or educational
goals, they work just fine.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."







Gene
 

From what I've read, the advantage is visual, that you see a lot more commands at one time and don't have to look for a lot of commands by looking through menus.  for blind people, there is no advantage, but I don't think there is any meaningful disadvantage either.  I gathger that some sighted people like ribbons and some don't.
 
I know there are menu restoration programs but I haven't investigated them.  I don't know just what they do other than provide a menu structure.  Commands have been reorganized in ribbon programs and, though you would be working with menus, I don't know how they are organized or if there is any point in using menu restoration programs if the commands are organized differently and the menus have different names. 
 
Those who may have tried or use such programs may want to comment but I am suspicious that you will still have to learn menus that don't correspond to the old ones and you may not save yourself any meaningful amount of learning by using menu restoration programs.
 
Also, I don't know if or how menu restoration programs compare with the JAWS virtual ribbons, if that's what they are called, that you already have.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

I'm not ignorant,  I have a Ph.d. in my field and before I retired I was the
go to guy for computers at my work site and for virtually all blind users at
the entire VA system I may be a bit long in the tooth, but I simply want the
old menu structure.  What advantage did MS think it was providing with these
ribbons?  My sighted friends hate them as much as I do.  Why should we be
forced to Learn a whole new way of doing things just so MS could make more
money?  I'd really be grateful to anyone who could point me to such a
program.
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ann Parsons
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:49 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

Hi all,

RE ribbons, scarlet or otherwise, I just use the ribbons in their natural
state.  It's not difficult.  It's not arcane  or mysterious. 
It's just like the regular menus except that they're arranged somewhat
differently.

Agree the virtual ribbons increase dependency on Jaws, but if that's the
only screen reader being used, and there's no employment or educational
goals, they work just fine.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."







Jeffrey Schwartz
 

Hi,

Gerald turned me on to using the virtual ribbons in jaws.  I really like the change.  Is this program designed to return the old menu structure in all its glory?

Jeff

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike B.
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:24 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

Hi Jeffrey,

 

Came across this thread in my notes.  It might be just what you're looking for:

From: Dujari, Prateek
yes I'm a huge proponent and very pleased user of 'classic menus for office' for both office 07 and office 10 which can be purchased at

 

www.addintools.com.  Very simple, everything is totally accessible. Once installed and activated, hitting alt Q together and then q again brings up the classic menu in all its glory.
 
Prateek
 
From: CM54
It looks to be about $40
 
I also came across a free option at:

 

 

Has anyone tried this option with Jaws?
CM
 

From: Dujari, Prateek
this free option is only for Office home /student and thus only applies to Word, Excel and PowerPoint. If that is all u care about then sure it should work for free.
 
Prateek
 
From: Glen Jan
Direct link to the office menu purchase / download page.  It is a bit of
a dog's breakfast though:

 

 

Glen

Take care.  Mike.  Go Dodgers!
Sent from my iBarstool.
Arguing with a woman is like reading a software license agreement.  In the end you have to ignore everything, & click I agree.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:23 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

 

I'm not ignorant,  I have a Ph.d. in my field and before I retired I was the
go to guy for computers at my work site and for virtually all blind users at
the entire VA system I may be a bit long in the tooth, but I simply want the
old menu structure.  What advantage did MS think it was providing with these
ribbons?  My sighted friends hate them as much as I do.  Why should we be
forced to Learn a whole new way of doing things just so MS could make more
money?  I'd really be grateful to anyone who could point me to such a
program.
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ann Parsons
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:49 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] old menu structure for new versions of office

Hi all,

RE ribbons, scarlet or otherwise, I just use the ribbons in their natural
state.  It's not difficult.  It's not arcane  or mysterious. 
It's just like the regular menus except that they're arranged somewhat
differently.

Agree the virtual ribbons increase dependency on Jaws, but if that's the
only screen reader being used, and there's no employment or educational
goals, they work just fine.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
** New EMAIL:  akp@...
web site:  http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."