Topics

Internet Explorer will no longer be supported in November


Gene
 

Microsoft has officially said that it will no longer support Internet Explorer with security updates in November. I don't recall the wording and I don't recall if updates will stop at the beginning of November or at the end.
https://www.komando.com/technology/microsoft-kills-internet-explorer/750690/?utm_medium=nl&;utm_source=notd&utm_content=2020-08-20

For years, it has been recommended, even by the department of homeland security that Internet Explorer not be used for security reasons. it has very little market share now. Yet many blind people continue to use it, evidently because of fear of change.

So here are the choices;
Keep using Internet Explorer as it becomes increasingly dangerous and will slowly work on fewer and fewer sites, or wait until the last moment and then try other browsers under pressure, or try other browsers now and see that the only thing you had to fear was fear itself and give yourself lots of time to learn, not under pressure, the small amount you will have to learn unless you want to change settings in the browser.

For a lot of users, there will be very little to learn. Browsing is almost completely identical with any browser that supports the Virtual PC Cursor or Browse mode. You will need to learn to work with book marks differently but, unless you want to change settings, that will be almost the only thing you will have to learn. There are one or two other things, such as how to change where files download to if you don't want them to download to the default folder.

If you want to work with settings, you will have more to learn.

Gene


David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...>
 

I am of two minds about the piece that you referenced.

First, I am in total agreement that people should not be using Internet Explorer unless there's a good reason for doing so. The browser just isn't going to keep up with today's Web and many Web sites won't interact properly with Internet Explorer, if at all, and users will find that their experience with IE will be degraded, crippled or nonexistent.

Having said that the Komando article has misquoted the original blog post that it links to. IE is not being retired this November. The blog post states:

"Beginning November 30, 2020, the Microsoft Teams web app will no longer support IE 11."

The end of support has to do with Teams and other Microsoft 365 apps. While IE's retirement is inevitable the blog post makes it clear that the browser isn't going away totally, at least not now and certainly not this year. The Komando piece is an example of poor and irresponsible journalism. Again, this doesn't mean that I'm encouraging users to stick with IE until its official retirement. Unless you're being forced to use it in a corporate environment or unless you're using a screen reader version that is over ten years old Firefox or a Chromium-based browser will offer greater compatibility with today's Web sites, better performance and equal screen reader compatibility to IE with a far more accessible experience.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 8/20/2020 8:18 AM, Gene wrote:

Microsoft has officially said that it will no longer support Internet Explorer with security updates in November.  I don't recall the wording and I don't recall if updates will stop at the beginning of November or at the end.
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.komando.com%2Ftechnology%2Fmicrosoft-kills-internet-explorer%2F750690%2F%3Futm_medium%3Dnl%26utm_source%3Dnotd%26utm_content%3D2020-08-20&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C373e86ff2e67473bf62208d845031ff6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637335227003371146&amp;sdata=I0bJWimCwbyPHgCD9N4A5Fo7%2F8D98KOiHTLtbhY3Iuo%3D&amp;reserved=0

For years, it has been recommended, even by the department of homeland security that Internet Explorer not be used for security reasons.  it has very little market share now.  Yet many blind people continue to use it, evidently because of fear of change.

So here are the choices;
Keep using Internet Explorer as it becomes increasingly dangerous and will slowly work on fewer and fewer sites, or wait until the last moment and then try other browsers under pressure, or try other browsers now and see that the only thing you had to fear was fear itself and give yourself lots of time to learn, not under pressure, the small amount you will have to learn unless you want to change settings in the browser.

For a lot of users, there will be very little to learn.  Browsing is almost completely identical with any browser that supports the Virtual PC Cursor or Browse mode.  You will need to learn to work with book marks differently but, unless you want to change settings, that will be almost the only thing you will have to learn.  There are one or two other things, such as how to change where files download to if you don't want them to download to the default folder.

If you want to work with settings, you will have more to learn.

Gene




Gene
 

Its good that you made the correction. I haven't generally seen the Komando newsletter make a major error of this type. I've seen some oversimplifications that result in somewhat misleading information.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:48 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Internet Explorer will no longer be supported in November



I am of two minds about the piece that you referenced.

First, I am in total agreement that people should not be using Internet Explorer unless there's a good reason for doing so. The browser just isn't going to keep up with today's Web and many Web sites won't interact properly with Internet Explorer, if at all, and users will find that their experience with IE will be degraded, crippled or nonexistent.

Having said that the Komando article has misquoted the original blog post that it links to. IE is not being retired this November. The blog post states:

"Beginning November 30, 2020, the Microsoft Teams web app will no longer support IE 11."

The end of support has to do with Teams and other Microsoft 365 apps. While IE's retirement is inevitable the blog post makes it clear that the browser isn't going away totally, at least not now and certainly not this year. The Komando piece is an example of poor and irresponsible journalism. Again, this doesn't mean that I'm encouraging users to stick with IE until its official retirement. Unless you're being forced to use it in a corporate environment or unless you're using a screen reader version that is over ten years old Firefox or a Chromium-based browser will offer greater compatibility with today's Web sites, better performance and equal screen reader compatibility to IE with a far more accessible experience.







David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 8/20/2020 8:18 AM, Gene wrote:
Microsoft has officially said that it will no longer support Internet Explorer with security updates in November. I don't recall the wording and I don't recall if updates will stop at the beginning of November or at the end.
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.komando.com%2Ftechnology%2Fmicrosoft-kills-internet-explorer%2F750690%2F%3Futm_medium%3Dnl%26utm_source%3Dnotd%26utm_content%3D2020-08-20&;amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C373e86ff2e67473bf62208d845031ff6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637335227003371146&amp;sdata=I0bJWimCwbyPHgCD9N4A5Fo7%2F8D98KOiHTLtbhY3Iuo%3D&amp;reserved=0

For years, it has been recommended, even by the department of homeland security that Internet Explorer not be used for security reasons. it has very little market share now. Yet many blind people continue to use it, evidently because of fear of change.

So here are the choices;
Keep using Internet Explorer as it becomes increasingly dangerous and will slowly work on fewer and fewer sites, or wait until the last moment and then try other browsers under pressure, or try other browsers now and see that the only thing you had to fear was fear itself and give yourself lots of time to learn, not under pressure, the small amount you will have to learn unless you want to change settings in the browser.

For a lot of users, there will be very little to learn. Browsing is almost completely identical with any browser that supports the Virtual PC Cursor or Browse mode. You will need to learn to work with book marks differently but, unless you want to change settings, that will be almost the only thing you will have to learn. There are one or two other things, such as how to change where files download to if you don't want them to download to the default folder.

If you want to work with settings, you will have more to learn.

Gene


Hope Williamson
 

Right, but the ridiculous people who won't stop using IE because they're too picky to find another RSS reader should probably give up RSs in the first place. I mean, if MS decided to remote wipe IE from everyone's computers right now I wouldn't be all that sad about it. It would be a major privacy violation, so I'd be unhappy in that way, but otherwise I'd have to say yay it's finally over!!!


David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...>
 

Actually, I'm quite the fan of RSS news feeds but I don't use my computer very much to access them. iOS users have some good choices. The app that I use for this is called Lire. It costs $6.99 but is well worth it if you follow a lot of feeds.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
www.DavidGoldfield.org
On 8/21/2020 8:23 AM, Hope Williamson wrote:

Right, but the ridiculous people who won't stop using IE because they're too picky to find another RSS reader should probably give up RSs in the first place. I mean, if MS decided to remote wipe IE from everyone's computers right now I wouldn't be all that sad about it. It would be a major privacy violation, so I'd be unhappy in that way, but otherwise I'd have to say yay it's finally over!!!


Hope Williamson
 

Lol we're the opposite, I follow a lot of feeds but I don't use my phone
hah. I do use Firefox and the hosted version of Miniflux.
https://miniflux.app.

    I will say that it took me forever to get over wanting an exact
replacement for Google reader, and by exact I mean like how everything
was layed out. I did get over that though, after I found Miniflux.


David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...>
 

Hope, thank you for this recommendation. I was curious so I visited their site. After I found the downloads page for the latest release I am unable to find something which is clearly for Windows, other than a file named miniflux-windows-amd64 without an extension. What's the name of the Windows version?

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
www.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/22/2020 1:35 AM, Hope Williamson wrote:
Lol we're the opposite, I follow a lot of feeds but I don't use my phone
hah. I do use Firefox and the hosted version of Miniflux.
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fminiflux.app%2F&;amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd9802bdcdb614cc027c408d8465d34b7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637336713406888948&amp;sdata=VvLiqaTqe%2FDTefUW8om3AztxmggfYytbG65vpPTRPvo%3D&amp;reserved=0.

    I will say that it took me forever to get over wanting an exact
replacement for Google reader, and by exact I mean like how everything
was layed out. I did get over that though, after I found Miniflux.



Hope Williamson
 

It's a service. You would normally download and install it on a web
server that you might have handy, but they also have a hosted version,
which I use. https://miniflux.app/hosting.html

On 8/21/2020 10:56 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Hope, thank you for this recommendation. I was curious so I visited
their site. After I found the downloads page for the latest release I
am unable to find something which is clearly for Windows, other than a
file named miniflux-windows-amd64 without an extension. What's the
name of the Windows version?

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
www.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/22/2020 1:35 AM, Hope Williamson wrote:
Lol we're the opposite, I follow a lot of feeds but I don't use my phone
hah. I do use Firefox and the hosted version of Miniflux.
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fminiflux.app%2F&;amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd9802bdcdb614cc027c408d8465d34b7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637336713406888948&amp;sdata=VvLiqaTqe%2FDTefUW8om3AztxmggfYytbG65vpPTRPvo%3D&amp;reserved=0.


    I will say that it took me forever to get over wanting an exact
replacement for Google reader, and by exact I mean like how everything
was layed out. I did get over that though, after I found Miniflux.




Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 08:48 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Having said that the Komando article has misquoted the original blog post that it links to. IE is not being retired this November.
-
I personally never believe that anything said by Kim Komando is anywhere near to 100% accurate.  At least a direct link to the source material is in this particular article, but there have been others where there was not even that.  Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy!!  And a long track record of being so.

That being said, I absolutely agree that no one should continue to use IE, except if one happens to have the very odd situation where that's forced by a given employer or website, and that's a very, very rare occurrence these days.

I've posted the references that follow on other groups before, but they're certainly pertinent in this topic:

Why You Should Dump Internet Explorer | Daniel Miessler        (Dec 2019)

The perils of using Internet Explorer as your default browser ...            (March 2019 – straight from the proverbial horse’s mouth)

Microsoft cybersecurity expert: Please, stop using Internet ...  (Feb 2019)

Microsoft security chief: IE is not a browser, so stop using ...     (Feb 2019)

Microsoft wants you to stop using Internet Explorer                    (Feb 2019)

12 reasons not to use Internet Explorer, ever | Computerworld  (June 2011 – Even more valid now)

And if you web search on “Why you should not use Internet Explorer” the list of returned results is long, and virtually unanimous in the expert (and non-expert) opinion that you should not.

Brian


Robin Frost
 

Hi,

Frankly I'm surprised that a Windows update doesn't completely deprecate it from machines thus people couldn't continue to use it. Earlier this year I removed it from my desktop so I'd not be tempted to go to it for anything and frankly I haven't missed it one little bit. Google Chrome and Microsoft's Edge and Fire Fox are performing well for me.

Take good care.

Robin


On 8/20/2020 8:48 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

I am of two minds about the piece that you referenced.

First, I am in total agreement that people should not be using Internet Explorer unless there's a good reason for doing so. The browser just isn't going to keep up with today's Web and many Web sites won't interact properly with Internet Explorer, if at all, and users will find that their experience with IE will be degraded, crippled or nonexistent.

Having said that the Komando article has misquoted the original blog post that it links to. IE is not being retired this November. The blog post states:

"Beginning November 30, 2020, the Microsoft Teams web app will no longer support IE 11."

The end of support has to do with Teams and other Microsoft 365 apps. While IE's retirement is inevitable the blog post makes it clear that the browser isn't going away totally, at least not now and certainly not this year. The Komando piece is an example of poor and irresponsible journalism. Again, this doesn't mean that I'm encouraging users to stick with IE until its official retirement. Unless you're being forced to use it in a corporate environment or unless you're using a screen reader version that is over ten years old Firefox or a Chromium-based browser will offer greater compatibility with today's Web sites, better performance and equal screen reader compatibility to IE with a far more accessible experience.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 8/20/2020 8:18 AM, Gene wrote:
Microsoft has officially said that it will no longer support Internet Explorer with security updates in November.  I don't recall the wording and I don't recall if updates will stop at the beginning of November or at the end.
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.komando.com%2Ftechnology%2Fmicrosoft-kills-internet-explorer%2F750690%2F%3Futm_medium%3Dnl%26utm_source%3Dnotd%26utm_content%3D2020-08-20&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C373e86ff2e67473bf62208d845031ff6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637335227003371146&amp;sdata=I0bJWimCwbyPHgCD9N4A5Fo7%2F8D98KOiHTLtbhY3Iuo%3D&amp;reserved=0

For years, it has been recommended, even by the department of homeland security that Internet Explorer not be used for security reasons.  it has very little market share now.  Yet many blind people continue to use it, evidently because of fear of change.

So here are the choices;
Keep using Internet Explorer as it becomes increasingly dangerous and will slowly work on fewer and fewer sites, or wait until the last moment and then try other browsers under pressure, or try other browsers now and see that the only thing you had to fear was fear itself and give yourself lots of time to learn, not under pressure, the small amount you will have to learn unless you want to change settings in the browser.

For a lot of users, there will be very little to learn.  Browsing is almost completely identical with any browser that supports the Virtual PC Cursor or Browse mode.  You will need to learn to work with book marks differently but, unless you want to change settings, that will be almost the only thing you will have to learn.  There are one or two other things, such as how to change where files download to if you don't want them to download to the default folder.

If you want to work with settings, you will have more to learn.

Gene




Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Robin,

          I think that, ultimately, it is going to require Microsoft removing Internet Explorer entirely before the last-gasp hold outs (and that includes those who have sites so badly designed that they only work well with IE) will be forced to do what should have been done long ago:  dropping Internet Explorer.

          Microsoft very, very seldom (and I'd say never) does rapid removal of virtually anything that's been a part of the Windows ecosystem "forever" so that plenty of transition time is available.  But some won't make a graceful transition, and they get exactly what they deserve when the software is removed.  You can lead a horse to water . . .
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Hope Williamson
 

How did you manage to completely get rid of it?


Gene
 

I don't recall the message referred to. But it may be that Internet Explorer is still a part of the operating system as in earlier versions of Windows. It does no harm if it isn't being used and there sites, now and then, where it works better enough to be advantageous to use. It is a mistake to remove it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Hope Williamson
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2020 12:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Internet Explorer will no longer be supported in November

How did you manage to completely get rid of it?


Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

I don't think they can do that. Internet Explorer is the same program as is Windows Explorer. I think they're dependent on each other.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 08:17 AM, Ann Parsons wrote:
Internet Explorer is the same program as is Windows Explorer. I think they're dependent on each other.
-
No, it is not.  Not even close.  And File Explorer (formerly Windows Explorer) has zero dependencies on Internet Explorer.  I don't know whether IE uses any common libraries from File Explorer, though.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 03:47 AM, Gene wrote:
It does no harm if it isn't being used and there sites, now and then, where it works better enough to be advantageous to use. It is a mistake to remove it.
-
Exactly.   There is no point in removing anything that ships with an operating system.  It's simple enough to let it lie fallow.

There are lots of things from previous versions of Windows that still ship with Windows 10, but where those are not placed "front and center" anymore.  Apparently Windows 10, Version 2004, is now hiding Paint if you do a completely clean install, but it stays around if you have a shortcut for it and do an upgrade.  It's still not gone, though, you have to turn the feature back on.  They're now pushing Paint 3D.

Notepad, WordPad, and all kinds of other little programs still come with Windows 10 but you have to search for them rather than having desktop shortcuts or start menu shortcuts created automatically.  And, of course, if you don't use them you don't remove them, they just lie fallow consuming some minuscule amount of disc space.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com